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RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • Zam said:
    I'm not really sure I agree, in that why would she even need to interact with him at all and then look 'weak'? From what we saw she didn't appear right in front of him at the end of V5 and if 'leave the areas' makes her look weak then having the camp pack up will have already done that.
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    That's fair, we don't know quite enough about her semblance to say how far away she'd have to appear. So her and Vernal would probably work the entire tribe might be a bit too many people for him not to notice, again depending on how far from her target she can be. Edit; and weak was a bad word, vulnerable was more what I meant.

    This is true, but it is also super far away from Cinder and co and presumably has boats or airships she and her bandits can steal. Also not sure that Patch has increased the Grimm numbers and I am pretty sure Atlas isn't doing anything with Vale anymore.
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    But how far is it from Salem's other agents? She doesn't know where Watts, Tyrian, or Hazel were at the time even if we did. And what about any other lower players? And Patch is like right off the coast from Vale proper so any international transport problems there will affect Patch's.

    devilkingx2 said:
    Cinder starts using her maiden powers and stomps RWBY + JNR at the same time. None of them stand even the remotest chance, especially if emerald knocks out ruby when she tries to use her eyes and mercury guards cinder while she recovers.

    Or if cinder is smart and takes out ruby first (not necessarily kill, just defeat)
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    But unlike us they have no way of knowing if Ruby's gotten any better at harnessing her powers. If all she needs is a small push in desperation, an attack that big might be enough for her to stonify Cinder so as far as they know they need to take out Ruby before any big shows Maiden power which again brings us back to how the two v ones go. Edit; bearing in mind that we know Yang can, or could, beat Mercury one on one.
     
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    Psyga315 said:
    Mainly because Ruby was all "MUH FIGHT TOO!"
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    From memory she wasn't alone in trying to help and also tried to stick to long distance support until Qrow's Aura was crackling and if he'd mentioned to her in the past "My Semblance is dangerous to my allies so in a fight don't get close" and he hadn't decided to just stand there staring at her after chopping up a wooden beam, he might not have gotten stabbed. Basically your summary feels unfair to me.

    Mahrac said:
    That's fair, we don't know quite enough about her semblance to say how far away she'd have to appear. So her and Vernal would probably work the entire tribe might be a bit too many people for him not to notice, again depending on how far from her target she can be.

    But how far is it from Salem's other agents? She doesn't know where Watts, Tyrian, or Hazel were at the time even if we did. And what about any other lower players? And Patch is like right off the coast from Vale proper so any international transport problems there will affect Patch's.
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    True, I guess it depends on whether she bothers to keep the tribe around, though even then, I feel like there's options if she wants to avoid dealing with Tai or just can just place Vernal between her and Tai and tune him out.

    True, she can't be sure, but given Salem's Maiden agent is in Mistral along with the White Fang and Watts, I think she can reasonable assume that Salem's focus is not on Anima at the moment. Plus after a point paranoia becomes self defeating if Salem's agents could be anywhere, then nowhere is worthwhile to runt to and she might as well give up. Plus given she planned to kill Cinder I don't think lower level agents would bother her that much, its a direct confrontation with Salem or a peer she seems to want to avoid, at least in my eyes.
    While true on Patch I still figure they could steal a boat or airship. Or Raven could just fly somewhere else and once her crew is done pillaging Patch she can summon them to a new camp sight.
     
    Zam said:
    True, I guess it depends on whether she bothers to keep the tribe around, though even then, I feel like there's options if she wants to avoid dealing with Tai or just can just place Vernal between her and Tai and tune him out.

    True, she can't be sure, but given Salem's Maiden agent is in Mistral along with the White Fang and Watts, I think she can reasonable assume that Salem's focus is not on Anima at the moment. Plus after a point paranoia becomes self defeating if Salem's agents could be anywhere, then nowhere is worthwhile to runt to and she might as well give up. Plus given she planned to kill Cinder I don't think lower level agents would bother her that much, its a direct confrontation with Salem or a peer she seems to want to avoid, at least in my eyes.
    While true on Patch I still figure they could steal a boat or airship. Or Raven could just fly somewhere else and once her crew is done pillaging Patch she can summon them to a new camp sight.
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    Like I said, Tai was the lesser reason but given her first thought on how to be brave was to go see him I don't think going would be easy for her either way.

    She might not be worried about fighting lesser agents, but if they're anywhere for sure they should still be in Vale/Beacon to look for the relic and would still be able to tail her and report her movements to Salem.
    On second thought, her paranoia might be crippling since it gave her the genius idea to try double crossing both of the most powerful beings in Remnant.

    True she could steal an airship, but that would draw Grimm to the fighting or hijacking especially with their increased numbers. All things considered, it's probably a surer thing to move light and fast through territory she knows and find a defensible hidden spot there.
     
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    Mahrac said:
    Like I said, Tai was the lesser reason but given her first thought on how to be brave was to go see him I don't think going would be easy for her either way.

    She might not be worried about fighting lesser agents, but if they're anywhere for sure they should still be in Vale/Beacon to look for the relic and would still be able to tail her and report her movements to Salem.
    On second thought, her paranoia might be crippling since it gave her the genius idea to try double crossing both of the most powerful beings in Remnant.

    True she could steal an airship, but that would draw Grimm to the fighting or hijacking especially with their increased numbers. All things considered, it's probably a surer thing to move light and fast through territory she knows and find a defensible hidden spot there.
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    Wait am I missing something, was there directors commentary saying she went to Tai cos he was brave and or to learn to be brave or something?

    Again though, if she just popped up on Patch at random one day, then flew far away to set up a new camp and then summoned her minions I don't see them noting her or being able to do much assuming any are even there to begin with.
    I feel like you may be overestimating Ozpin there unless you mean Cinder and given Raven beat her and is stronger than Ozpin.... Yeah not sure I can see that interpretation.

    Again, are there increased numbers on Patch? Things seemed fairly chills out in the woods where Yang was in V4.
     
    Zam said:
    Again, are there increased numbers on Patch? Things seemed fairly chills out in the woods where Yang was in V4.
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    Maybe Raven just needs some downtime to recollect herself before going back to her tribe after the verbal beatdown that Yang gave her and thought Patch would be a good place to go to since as you just mentioned it is relatively peaceful.

    Plus maybe she also went there to visit Summers grave since outside of her one sentence to Ruby about how she is like her mother we don't really know what there relationship was other then they apparently loved the same man.
     
    Tython82 said:
    Maybe Raven just needs some downtime to recollect herself before going back to her tribe after the verbal beatdown that Yang gave her and thought Patch would be a good place to go to since as you just mentioned it is relatively peaceful.

    Plus maybe she also went there to visit Summers grave since outside of her one sentence to Ruby about how she is like her mother we don't really know what there relationship was other then they apparently loved the same man.
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    Yeah that was my thinking, there's lots of reasons she could have gone to Patch all things considered.

    I'd love that, especially if she acknowledged Summer as Yang's mother. As to loving the same man, well maybe, though we don't know the context behind the relationships overall or if Summer fell in with Tai later over at the same time as Raven ETC.
     
    Zam said:
    Wait am I missing something, was there directors commentary saying she went to Tai cos he was brave and or to learn to be brave or something?
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    Based on the context of her action immediately after Yang chewing her out for running away from her fears I thought it was pretty obvious that it was kind of obvious that her character development was to start trying to face them.

    Again though, if she just popped up on Patch at random one day, then flew far away to set up a new camp and then summoned her minions I don't see them noting her or being able to do much assuming any are even there to begin with.

    Again, are there increased numbers on Patch? Things seemed fairly chills out in the woods where Yang was in V4.
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    No, but again Patch is a small island. A sudden influx of people would be noticed, especially if they were bandits. Not exactly a good place to be if you're trying to disappear from someone who has agents around the world. Now, just porting herself there and flying as a raven would probably work, I wish you'd clarified that earlier. It risks losing followers, but she'd probably trust Vernal to keep them in line. The only issue there is that she's trying to reestablish her tribe in unknown territory.

    I feel like you may be overestimating Ozpin there unless you mean Cinder and given Raven beat her and is stronger than Ozpin.... Yeah not sure I can see that interpretation.
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    Given we haven't seen how Cinder killed Ozpin yet it's possible he let it happen to reincarnate elsewhere since the situation was untenable, he'd be needed to oversee it if he lived, and his concern is the world as a whole rather than a city. Oz is notedly a dick in the smaller picture. Of course it's also possible she beat him fair and square, we'll just have to wait and see. But I fail to see the relevance of nitpicking who fits precisely where in the power charts for my point that she came up with a self destructive plan out of her own fears.
     
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    Mahrac said:
    Based on the context of her action immediately after Yang chewing her out for running away from her fears I thought it was pretty obvious that it was kind of obvious that her character development was to start trying to face them.
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    While possible, I don't think that translates to 'Tai is brave' or 'I will run to Tai and he will teach me to be brave'.

    Mahrac said:
    No, but again Patch is a small island. A sudden influx of people would be noticed, especially if they were bandits. Not exactly a good place to be if you're trying to disappear from someone who has agents around the world. Now, just porting herself there and flying as a raven would probably work, I wish you'd clarified that earlier. It risks losing followers, but she'd probably trust Vernal to keep them in line. The only issue there is that she's trying to reestablish her tribe in unknown territory.
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    Given bandits move around all the time I don't think re-establishing herself would be that hard and the house Tai lives in seems fairly isolated so i Vernal kept the tribe under control I don't see it being an issue overall. Plus, Raven was straight up willing to ice one of Salem's top agents and steal the Relic for herself so I don't think she'd be so crushed by paranoia she she'd be afraid of some of Salem's lower tier followers.

    Mahrac said:
    Given we haven't seen how Cinder killed Ozpin yet it's possible he let it happen to reincarnate elsewhere since the situation was untenable, he'd be needed to oversee it if he lived, and his concern is the world as a whole rather than a city. Oz is notedly a dick in the smaller picture. Of course it's also possible she beat him fair and square, we'll just have to wait and see. But I fail to see the relevance of nitpicking who fits precisely where in the power charts for my point that she came up with a self destructive plan out of her own fears.
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    I mean they seemed pretty even at first and Ozpin himself noted he is a lot weaker than he once was so I find it unlikely that he is still on par with a Maiden if he doesn't have Relics myself, though it isn't impossible.

    Well my point was that Ozpin isn't nearly as powerful as you're describing him in my eyes which given his power was a big part of your statement seemed relevant. And Raven had a choice between, work for Salem, run from Salem, or back-stab Salem & run with a powerful artifact that might be useful to her from Salem. All things being equal I don't see her plan as all that self destructive given the situation she's stuck in. Especially as she was playing her enemies off each other and taking her enemies second strongest piece (After Salem) off the board.
     
    Zam said:
    While possible, I don't think that translates to 'Tai is brave' or 'I will run to Tai and he will teach me to be brave'.
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    Which is why those aren't what I said. I probably should have said 'going to see him was her first thought on how she could be brave', if that's clearer?

    Given bandits move around all the time I don't think re-establishing herself would be that hard and the house Tai lives in seems fairly isolated so i Vernal kept the tribe under control I don't see it being an issue overall. Plus, Raven was straight up willing to ice one of Salem's top agents and steal the Relic for herself so I don't think she'd be so crushed by paranoia she she'd be afraid of some of Salem's lower tier followers.
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    Move around on the same continent, which means they're able to scout around for suitable places to move before it's time to move. I'm not saying running is impossible but rather that there's better options logistically and personally.

    I mean they seemed pretty even at first and Ozpin himself noted he is a lot weaker than he once was so I find it unlikely that he is still on par with a Maiden if he doesn't have Relics myself, though it isn't impossible.

    Well my point was that Ozpin isn't nearly as powerful as you're describing him in my eyes which given his power was a big part of your statement seemed relevant. And Raven had a choice between, work for Salem, run from Salem, or back-stab Salem & run with a powerful artifact that might be useful to her from Salem. All things being equal I don't see her plan as all that self destructive given the situation she's stuck in. Especially as she was playing her enemies off each other and taking her enemies second strongest piece (After Salem) off the board.
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    It wasn't irrelevant per se, but it was definitely minor to pointing out that she's shown to be paranoid and fearful to the point of those dictating her actions.
     
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    Mahrac said:
    Which is why those aren't what I said. I probably should have said 'going to see him was her first thought on how she could be brave', if that's clearer?
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    Ooooh more of a 'facing you past mistakes' kind of deal then? I could see that more yeah, could parallel Blake in that regard, though as noted it may not be that and or go that way though it is definitely possible/probable.

    Mahrac said:
    Move around on the same continent, which means they're able to scout around for suitable places to move before it's time to move. I'm not saying running is impossible but rather that there's better options logistically and personally.
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    Maybe, I just don't think it is as hard or dangerous as you might think given Raven's abilities and their experience.

    Mahrac said:
    It wasn't irrelevant per se, but it was definitely minor to pointing out that she's shown to be paranoid and fearful to the point of those dictating her actions.
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    Maybe, but the implication that comes with doing it to someone stronger than her implies she's putting herself in more danger by doing it rather than less if that makes sense.
     
    Warning: I see a lack of chill here.
  • Staff Post
    • i see a lack of chill here. Hello, some of you obviously need to chill out and this will be your friendly community moderator warning.

    @WhoAmEye you have consistently freaked out at thesevenwielder's posts and opinions for little reason I can actually discern.
    WhoAmEye said:
    Learn. To. Read.

    And please point out exactly where I said that justifies Jaune slamming Oscar into the wall? Because I sure as fuck do not remember typing such.
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    WhoAmEye said:
    Quote me on where I'm justifying his actions.
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    Put him on ignore and be done with it. You are also getting a staff notice for the lot of your behavior, a slice of which is represented by the above quotes.

    @thesevenwielder these posts here are a few examples of your lack of chill.
    thesevenwielder said:
    Learn to read. He took the opportunity to deliberately screw with Ironwood, pretending to attack him only to reveal it to be a fake out. Then he says "I know you didn't do it." Sure he's saved ironwood's life. And he did it in the most antagonistic way possible. And it's arguable that if he didn't spend the time pretending to attack Ironwood, the other man would have been able to see the Grimm coming.

    So how about you learn some basic reading comprehension and actually address what I said instead of creating a straw man. Don't think I didn't see your post before the edit, where you mentioned Winter and called her 'my waifu' for some reason even though I never brought her up. Further proof you have no idea what you're talking about.
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    thesevenwielder said:
    Yang said she 'waited until dad was gone." Probably to work, because you have to pay the bills somehow. And it's not much of a stretch to assume he would get a babysitter, specifically family to watch over them.

    You sure are getting awfully defensive and justifying Jaune's actions. So it certainly sounds like you are stanning him. How about manning the fuck up and saying "no, it doesn't matter how mad Jaune is, that's no justification for attacking Oscar." Because I haven't seen you or @VolantRedX stating that. Instead you jump to justification after justification. The reason I'm calling you stans? Because you are stanning.

    Okay, here's the deal. Qrow's habits were played for laughs in the past three volumes. I am specifically talking about a Doylist view of things. He is presented to us the audience as charming, and his flaws are actually lauded. Not once does the narrative try to present him as in the wrong. And I repeat: it's hardly a stretch for a dad to ask a family member, such as an uncle, to watch over their kids while they're at work.

    As for Ruby not growing up with Qrow's habits... well according to this show apparently some people are just born good and others are born evil. Ruby was born good so of course she wouldn't take Qrow's negative impulses to heart. Although if you think about it, her constant refusal to actually address the issues of the people around her, running off to fight the bad guys instead of actually take care of her family who is in need of support, inability to question authority, always rushing into fights without thought of consequence... all of those are similar character flaws to Qrow. She doesn't get drunk nor does she insult everyone at the drop of a hat, but there is more to Qrow's character than just those two things.
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    I would suggest working to phrase your hot takes such that they have stronger support. You aren't getting anything more than a warning to not drive the thread down a disruptive track.


    Y'all have a nice new years.
     
  • Staff Post
    • BungieONI said:
    @WhoAmEye you have consistently freaked out at thesevenwielder's posts and opinions for little reason I can actually discern.
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    He said I was justifying Jaune's actions, and I was not, and he consistently ignored me asking him to explain where I had said that. I'm not particularly fond of people putting words in my mouth that I never said.
    I hope that works as an explanation. If ignoring him is the best way to deal with his disruptive posting, then I'll do that.
     
    Some good analysis from, well, RWBY Analysis over on tumblr:
    RWBY analysis said:
    The thing that you need to understand about writing is that often the death of a character isn't the thing that'll get you the most emotional reactions from your audience, it's other people reacting to that death. The scenes in RWBY where I cried the most weren't in Volume 3 but afterwards. Jaune's training in the woods. JN_R sitting together in 4x12. Ruby talking to Oscar about Penny and Pyrrha (also because she said "moving forward" and anything about Monty always makes me cry). And of course that scene in 6x09, you know which one. Too many writers think you can only ever use the death of a character until that character has died, but the most heartbreaking moments will come afterwards. When the other characters are grieving Pyrrha, and every time the audience is reminded that the story has moved forward without her, when you look back and think about all the things Pyrrha has missed out on, all the moments when she should have been there with the others but wasn't. Every time the show reminds us that the other characters haven't forgotten her, and never will.
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    I think Mama Nikos knew exactly who Jaune was when she saw him. She has probably watched the tournaments, and just as Taiyang had the picture of team RWBY, Pyrrha probably sent one to her family as well. So when she sees him stand in front of the statue, lost and still ridden by guilt, she says exactly what she thinks he wanted to hear. I'm sure she's been there. She has been grieving. She has asked herself all of those questions. But those are the answers that have helped her cope with the loss of her daughter, so instead of introducing herself and forcing him to talk about their relationship, she tells him what she probably needed to hear too months ago.



    What's breaking my heart here is that she puts Jaune's grief over her own. I'm sure she'd love to talk about her daughter with people who knew her, I'm sure she has so many questions, but instead she stands in front of the statue of her dead daughter and tells this young boy what she thinks he needs to hear, to ease his pain instead of easing hers. She doesn't expect anything from him in return, even though there is so much he could give her. She lets him pretend he's just a stranger and gives him space when his teammates arrive.

    And what's really breaking my heart is that this is exactly what Pyrrha would have done. That's exactly how Pyrrha was, putting others before herself if it meant she could help them. Seeing the light in the dark, finding positivity in all the pain, and seeking comfort in comforting others. Pyrrha always knew that it was her destiny to help people, and that's what she lived for. She was the most altruistic person and her deepest regret has always been that her abilities have made it hard for her to connect with others. She had it all from her mother.



    But Jaune also said exactly what she needed to hear, and I'm so glad he did.
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    Link
     
    The thing that you need to understand about writing is that often the death of a character isn't the thing that'll get you the most emotional reactions from your audience, it's other people reacting to that death.
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    I don't know, I've played Final Fantasy 7 a bunch, and I can probably say the biggest emotional resonance there is more the context to Aeris's death, rather than the aftermath.
     
    You know, for all that people go on and on abkut how Ironwood 'betrayed' Ozpin, given the council's reaction to finding out what exactly Oz was doing, namely the lack of preventative safety measures, they are obviously expected to be kept up-to-date on what the Headmaster is doing. Meaning that Oz was keeping secrets from them, going behind their back and operating without their consent. He betrayed them and their trust long before Ironwood went all whistleblower.

    Kind of defeats the purpose of dissolving monarchies, when he is all too willing to subvert the elected Council, create a secret society and try and run everything behind their backs.
     
    Delphisage said:
    I don't know, I've played Final Fantasy 7 a bunch, and I can probably say the biggest emotional resonance there is more the context to Aeris's death, rather than the aftermath.
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    That probably has something to do with the fact that her death scene is one of the only times in the game where the characters are detailed enough to actually look human and properly emote in a human fashion, rather than being demented muppets made out of lego that communicate exclusively via text and exaggerated arm movements.
     
    Psyga315 said:
    That's implying Argus isn't gonna go to shit anyways.
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    They've already got one destroyed academy, a CCT tower, a second academy, and a train on their rep list. But then again if the plan is to steal an airship... yeah. Argus is gonna go to shit and maybe our heroes will learn a thing or two about collateral damage?
     
    Serval said:
    Could a Geist possess the Pyrrha statue? Ala Ghostbusters?
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    It can possess rocks, trees and giant suits of armor. So yes definitively. But in practice no Geist is going to get near that thing. I am hoping that Salem has a bunch of big burgly gargoyles scattered across her castle though. Possessed statues are such a fun way of making a place more heavily defended (and under heavier surveillance) than it appears.
     
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