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RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
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    [Discussion] Volume 6, Chapter 9: Lost
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    • VolantRedX said:
    I think I'm the only RWBY fan who actually likes Cinder. Like she's not any sort of great character from a character perspective but I find her fun to watch.
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    I dunno, I think I'm coming around on her this Volume.

    WhoAmEye said:
    big woop, God of Light can atomise a few wolves

    did you see what the God of Darkness did to the fucking moon?
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    Yeah but the God of Darkness is like a 7/10 on the bonometer, whereas the God of Light? Damn, son, damn.

    ...Wait is that not what we're talking about? Never mind then, haha

    Ooh we get some insight into Emerald and Mercury and also Tyrian's got a shiny new mechanical tail. He and Watts are heading down into Atlas to prepare.

    Also a Jaunecentric episode that I like, and might I say even felt a feeling about? By god who are you, RWBY Volume 6, and what have you done with the show that I got used to in the first 5 volumes? Seriously speaking of coming around on characters, I might actually be starting to almost maybe not dislike Jaune. And it only took a few scenes that I won't spoil and a little bit of good old fashioned anarchy to do it.


    Also good on Ruby for finally putting her foot down with Qrow's bullshit. You're doing amazing sweetie
     
  • Threadmarks
    • VolantRedX said:
    It's also been like 60 years since her prime and from Qrow's reaction, she sort of fell off the map. It wouldn't be that odd that even the most famous heroes of their day to just fall out of public memory. Like she's from Atlas right? They might have a statue of her somewhere, and like some people might remember her if it gets brought up, but how often do you see Wilt Chamberlain brought up in conversation or how many teenagers today would know Yogi Berra off the top of their heads?
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    Ha!



    So student cereal girl can get a statue all to herself, but a legendary Hunter didn't?


    Also more proof that Pyrrha's existence and death was nothing more than a vehicle for Jaune and his manpain. Instead of showing any actual regret over what he's done, or maybe seeing the rest of the team see Pyrrha's statue and mourn (especially Ruby) it's all relegated to Jaune. As usual.
     
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    thesevenwielder said:
    Ha!



    So student cereal girl can get a statue all to herself, but a legendary Hunter didn't?


    Also more proof that Pyrrha's existence and death was nothing more than a vehicle for Jaune and his manpain. Instead of showing any actual regret over what he's done, or maybe seeing the rest of the team see Pyrrha's statue and mourn (especially Ruby) it's all relegated to Jaune. As usual.
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    Wow it couldn't be more clear that you didn't actually watch the episode just got gifs.

    Jaune isn't the only one of the team who sees the statue and mourns her there. So do Ren and Nora. And all three compare her going into a fight she knew she would probably die in as a contrast to there own situation with Salem. Coming to the conclusion that just like her they can't walk away despite the odds.

    Like come on. That post isn't even an unflattering read of events, it's just a hot take that doesn't match up with what happens not 2 minutes later
     
    thesevenwielder said:
    Ha!



    So student cereal girl can get a statue all to herself, but a legendary Hunter didn't?


    Also more proof that Pyrrha's existence and death was nothing more than a vehicle for Jaune and his manpain. Instead of showing any actual regret over what he's done, or maybe seeing the rest of the team see Pyrrha's statue and mourn (especially Ruby) it's all relegated to Jaune. As usual.
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    Qrow outright said no one knew Maria's name, or what she looked like. She didn't attend any Academy or work for any formal government. She was constantly watching out for people trying to kill her over her Silver Eyes so it doesn't seem likely that she would have a lot of statues in her honor. As for the second JN_R all go to the statue so that's just wrong information. Beyond that, what the fuck is manpain? Are characters no longer able to mourn other characters? I don't understand what the issue is.
     
    thesevenwielder said:
    Ha!



    So student cereal girl can get a statue all to herself, but a legendary Hunter didn't?


    Also more proof that Pyrrha's existence and death was nothing more than a vehicle for Jaune and his manpain. Instead of showing any actual regret over what he's done, or maybe seeing the rest of the team see Pyrrha's statue and mourn (especially Ruby) it's all relegated to Jaune. As usual.
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    I mean, as long as you ignore what happens right after those screen grabs, sure.

    Also I love how much you're down playing Pyrrah's status as a celebrity martial artist and that she has a personal connection to the town as well as the changing circumstances surrounding Hunters themselves that Maria herself stated in order to take a potshot at something you claimed was terrible writing.
     
    thesevenwielder said:
    Come to think of it the Silver Eyes are csnonical proof that the GoL is stronger than the GoD.
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    Confirmed in volume 4, the GoL defeats the GoD 1v1 and then offers him mercy. Implying it's a decisive victory rather than a draw

    VolantRedX said:
    Except Salem can't be beaten with force so trying to fight her is a waste of time.
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    1. RWBY is still a show, it still has to entertain. Forgoing an epic climax is a horrible mistake

    2. Chances are she'll need to be distracted or physically subdued or weakened. It's unlikely she'll just stand 10 feet away from Ruby T-posing til she gets stardust breaker'd

    VolantRedX said:
    I think I'm the only RWBY fan who actually likes Cinder. Like she's not any sort of great character from a character perspective but I find her fun to watch.
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    Eh. She's an action character, not much personality but she would be fun and enjoyable if they let her do things. She should've gotten a major fight in every volume she appeared in.

    thesevenwielder said:
    So student cereal girl can get a statue all to herself, but a legendary Hunter didn't?
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    Wait how do we know with 100% certainty that there is not a single statue of maria anywhere? We haven't even seen atlas yet
     
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    Okay but seriously, was that episode an anticlimax or what?

    Two weeks of build-up where the writers deliberately implied that Oscar went missing for some time and they would spend time actually searching for him, and it all amounts to nothing. The search lasted maybe 5 minutes and Oscar just showed up at the house with new resolve for... some reason. We didn't even see him coming to terms with everything that's been going on around him. Meanwhile, everyone else is all super excited to see him and acts like he's been gone forever and they've been searching for days, when at most a few hours have passed.

    And of course we can't forget Jaune's shitty behavior getting swept under the rug. Sure he apologized (which is a first for his character) but immediately before that we have him wangsting in front of a statue of Pyrrha. Ren and Nora were also Pyrrha's teammates, why don't they get to mourn? Ruby literally watched her get murdered and it's NBD, the narrative doesn't care. I know, I know, people will blow it off by saying "Ruby wasn't that close to Pyrrha" but I bet those same people will have told me in the past "Of course Ruby would flip out at a close friend's death; they clearly became close friends offscreen." Pyrrha continues to have only ever been a crutch and waifu for Jaune and now a vehicle to cause him MANPAIN. That's all her existence in the plot was for; to elevate Jaune.

    You know why people call him Miles Luna's OC? Not because of his power level, but by how the plot bends backward to justify every shitty thing he does, constantly rewards him for his failures, and gives him basically everything. Jaune apparently has a massive amount of Aura for... reasons, Pyrrha wants to suck his dick because he is a dumbass who has no idea about the basics of Hunter culture and training, she devotes all her life to training him and elevating him because reasons, he is the only one who gets to mourn Pyrrha, he gets to yell at Qrow and not get reprimanded, he ruins everything at the Battle for Haven and nearly gets Weiss killed and is rewarded with a shiny new Semblance. And of course he attacks a child and barely gives a token apology and it is inadvertently justified when we see him wangsting over Pyrrha's statue and the redhead (likely Pyrrha's mom) justifies him, and his sister doesn't even call him out, assuming he "had good reasons" for attacking a random kid.
     
    thesevenwielder said:
    Okay but seriously, was that episode an anticlimax or what?

    Two weeks of build-up where the writers deliberately implied that Oscar went missing for some time and they would spend time actually searching for him, and it all amounts to nothing. The search lasted maybe 5 minutes and Oscar just showed up at the house with new resolve for... some reason. We didn't even see him coming to terms with everything that's been going on around him. Meanwhile, everyone else is all super excited to see him and acts like he's been gone forever and they've been searching for days, when at most a few hours have passed.

    And of course we can't forget Jaune's shitty behavior getting swept under the rug. Sure he apologized (which is a first for his character) but immediately before that we have him wangsting in front of a statue of Pyrrha. Ren and Nora were also Pyrrha's teammates, why don't they get to mourn? Ruby literally watched her get murdered and it's NBD, the narrative doesn't care. I know, I know, people will blow it off by saying "Ruby wasn't that close to Pyrrha" but I bet those same people will have told me in the past "Of course Ruby would flip out at a close friend's death; they clearly became close friends offscreen." Pyrrha continues to have only ever been a crutch and waifu for Jaune and now a vehicle to cause him MANPAIN. That's all her existence in the plot was for; to elevate Jaune.

    You know why people call him Miles Luna's OC? Not because of his power level, but by how the plot bends backward to justify every shitty thing he does, constantly rewards him for his failures, and gives him basically everything. Jaune apparently has a massive amount of Aura for... reasons, Pyrrha wants to suck his dick because he is a dumbass who has no idea about the basics of Hunter culture and training, she devotes all her life to training him and elevating him because reasons, he is the only one who gets to mourn Pyrrha, he gets to yell at Qrow and not get reprimanded, he ruins everything at the Battle for Haven and nearly gets Weiss killed and is rewarded with a shiny new Semblance. And of course he attacks a child and barely gives a token apology and it is inadvertently justified when we see him wangsting over Pyrrha's statue and the redhead (likely Pyrrha's mom) justifies him, and his sister doesn't even call him out, assuming he "had good reasons" for attacking a random kid.
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    I bet if it weren't like it is now you'd be complaining about the needless derail. Also you seem a bit confused. You're mixing up who's giving burns to who and who's justifying what.

    And also what even is being "justified".
     
    thesevenwielder said:
    Okay but seriously, was that episode an anticlimax or what?

    Two weeks of build-up where the writers deliberately implied that Oscar went missing for some time and they would spend time actually searching for him, and it all amounts to nothing. The search lasted maybe 5 minutes and Oscar just showed up at the house with new resolve for... some reason. We didn't even see him coming to terms with everything that's been going on around him. Meanwhile, everyone else is all super excited to see him and acts like he's been gone forever and they've been searching for days, when at most a few hours have passed.

    And of course we can't forget Jaune's shitty behavior getting swept under the rug. Sure he apologized (which is a first for his character) but immediately before that we have him wangsting in front of a statue of Pyrrha. Ren and Nora were also Pyrrha's teammates, why don't they get to mourn? Ruby literally watched her get murdered and it's NBD, the narrative doesn't care. I know, I know, people will blow it off by saying "Ruby wasn't that close to Pyrrha" but I bet those same people will have told me in the past "Of course Ruby would flip out at a close friend's death; they clearly became close friends offscreen." Pyrrha continues to have only ever been a crutch and waifu for Jaune and now a vehicle to cause him MANPAIN. That's all her existence in the plot was for; to elevate Jaune.

    You know why people call him Miles Luna's OC? Not because of his power level, but by how the plot bends backward to justify every shitty thing he does, constantly rewards him for his failures, and gives him basically everything. Jaune apparently has a massive amount of Aura for... reasons, Pyrrha wants to suck his dick because he is a dumbass who has no idea about the basics of Hunter culture and training, she devotes all her life to training him and elevating him because reasons, he is the only one who gets to mourn Pyrrha, he gets to yell at Qrow and not get reprimanded, he ruins everything at the Battle for Haven and nearly gets Weiss killed and is rewarded with a shiny new Semblance. And of course he attacks a child and barely gives a token apology and it is inadvertently justified when we see him wangsting over Pyrrha's statue and the redhead (likely Pyrrha's mom) justifies him, and his sister doesn't even call him out, assuming he "had good reasons" for attacking a random kid.
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    While I agree that it's pretty anti-climatic, I do feel like...

    Jaune's angst is kinda needed. The entire crux of the episode was that Oscar left and Jaune believed it was him reeeeing over Salem being OP and not because he went to check out the nearest thrift store.

    The only problem with it is that it's all but implied that Jaune is only currently upset about Salem being OP and not anything else, as the thing needed for him to stop being upset was being told the exact same thing Ruby told Oscar: Pyrrha went out taking on something she knew she couldn't beat because it was, to her, the right thing to do. It would have been something else if Jaune had been saying something like "Pyrrha died for nothing" or something like that, but instead, it's another case of "ThErE Is nO BeAtInG SaLeM!".

    This definitely sunk in the idea that the volumes aren't individual seasons, but rather chunks of a larger season, as if you look at Jaune's character arc from Volumes 4-6 as a whole, you notice that there's a common narrative thread: Jaune is upset about Pyrrha's death and blames almost everyone involved, including himself.

    The problem is that there's a variety of gaps in between volumes that the character arc fluctuates and is never a clear line. Take for example his anger at Ozpin. In Volume 4, he is upset because he just found out not just about the Maidens, but how Ozpin tried to make Pyrrha one. He calls out Qrow, as he is Ozpin's right-hand man (his defense of Ozpin's decision, on top of defending his action regarding avian transformations, serves a nice cross-volume joke(?) as when the entire group has run out of trust for Ozpin, they turn their weapons on him the moment he opens his mouth), but next Volume, save for one remark, Jaune never feels upset at Ozpin and in fact is amazed by his presence.

    Then V6 happens and after he misses the moment to react to Ozpin "forgetting" to tell the others about the Relic's Grimm lure abilities, he finally lays into Ozpin... but instead of venting his frustrations and calling him out, he instead just attacks Oscar because "ThErE Is nO BeAtInG SaLeM!"

    I mean, if you look at all the pieces, there is a narrative to tell with Jaune's arc. However, because writing quality changes from volume to volume and other variables such as time and budget constraints, it's instead this paper thin line that connects all these moments together in a manner looser than a seashell necklace. If you look at it, it's more like a checklist and every tick is a moment of the arc Jaune has to experience, but the problem is that these moments are ticked seemingly out of order and thus it feels like Jaune's resolve, the very core of his character arc, is all over the place.

    Like, the very first scene we have that deals with this arc is something that feels like it should be the (or at least close to the) end of an arc: melting down Pyrrha's armor to augment his own. Other than gushing over "cute little boy Ozpin", he's been a debbie downer throughout his journey and becomes downright suicidal when confronting Cinder. Then he ends up gaining his Semblance at his lowest point (as Ren had shown earlier, something I feel should have been a little more emphasized as the reason he unlocks it instead of "bitching and moaning until he gets a power up") and that's where his arc kinda stagnates until Volume 6.

    You'd think unlocking your own version of the show's super powers would be a huge climax to someone's character arc, but it turns out they kinda blew their load and Jaune is not quite done with his arc, as we then go back to him getting upset at Ozpin and then getting a supposed closure to his arc, at least until he comes across the next checkmark.

    By now, you'd probably see what I'm talking about. The episode in of itself was perfect for concluding Jaune's arc, but the road to get there was bumpy and inconsistent. It only took this episode for me to see the whole picture and realize why that's the case. I'd explain how I'd fix up Jaune's character arc, but I've written 1k words about this and there's other problems you've pointed out that I wished they fleshed out, like Nora and Ren also mourning for Pyrrha, so I'll leave it for now.

    Though before I end this rant, from what I heard, Ruby gives a pretty ass backwards speech that, while awesome at first hearing, when you break it down and think about it, makes absolutely no sense when taking prior context.

    Like, the gist is "we don't need adults to solve this problem!", but they only got to this point because of the adults. Qrow saved their ass from Tyrian, Raven decided to be the better woman (or coward) and left Yang with the Relic, and Maria (okay, technically she's a senior, but she still counts) was the only person to teach Ruby about her Silver Eyes.
     
    Right now I think it would be best if RT just rebooted the whole damn franchise. They're trying to build a house on a foundation of sand, and it's clearly showing. Reboot the show, make Jaune a competent hunter-in-training from the getgo, remove the horrid White Fang and racism subplot, make the Silver Eyes a powerup from the start instead of the retcon at the end of v3 (Miles went on record during v3 AMA that the eyes were originally just meant to tie Ruby to her mother), stop flip-flopping back and forth about what Aura and Semblances are and what they do...

    So many improvements to be made, a reboot would make it so much easier. It's not like anyone here would stop watching if they did. I bet if I asked every fan on this site individually if they would watch the show if it was rebooted or not, I would get a 'yes' answer from 90% of the crowd.
     
    thesevenwielder said:
    Right now I think it would be best if RT just rebooted the whole damn franchise. They're trying to build a house on a foundation of sand, and it's clearly showing. Reboot the show, make Jaune a competent hunter-in-training from the getgo, remove the horrid White Fang and racism subplot, make the Silver Eyes a powerup from the start instead of the retcon at the end of v3 (Miles went on record during v3 AMA that the eyes were originally just meant to tie Ruby to her mother), stop flip-flopping back and forth about what Aura and Semblances are and what they do...

    So many improvements to be made, a reboot would make it so much easier. It's not like anyone here would stop watching if they did. I bet if I asked every fan on this site individually if they would watch the show if it was rebooted or not, I would get a 'yes' answer from 90% of the crowd.
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    I never really liked the idea of "rebooting". Though I think that's because of Hollywood cramming reboots down our throats, to the point there they can just reboot the reboot of a reboot without even trying.

    But here's the thing: rebooting RWBY would be a huge slap in the face to the fans who had spent the past six years watching the show, especially in the middle of a story. You know how stupid that would be?

    "We gotta stop Salem and- WHOOPS! REBOOT TIME! NOW WE'RE BACK AT BEACON! Okay, so now we can do a lot of stuff we already did before and, what's that? People hated this? WELP! REBOOT TIME! NOW WE'RE BACK AT BEACON!"

    It's actually infuriating for me to think that's a likely possibility, especially with all the time, effort, money, blood, sweat, and tears they put into the show. Hell, Monty didn't die to see his passion project get rehashed just because they could have told the story better.

    But, that's only if the reboot is just a straight up "we canned the show, now enjoy the reboot!".

    If we're talking a spin-off of a different medium, like a manga or a novel, that reboots and retells the story (like how you have Sword Art Online and its Progressive counterpart or the Ultimate Marvel line of comics), then that's something I can agree with.
     
    thesevenwielder said:
    Right now I think it would be best if RT just rebooted the whole damn franchise. They're trying to build a house on a foundation of sand, and it's clearly showing. Reboot the show, make Jaune a competent hunter-in-training from the getgo, remove the horrid White Fang and racism subplot, make the Silver Eyes a powerup from the start instead of the retcon at the end of v3 (Miles went on record during v3 AMA that the eyes were originally just meant to tie Ruby to her mother), stop flip-flopping back and forth about what Aura and Semblances are and what they do...

    So many improvements to be made, a reboot would make it so much easier. It's not like anyone here would stop watching if they did. I bet if I asked every fan on this site individually if they would watch the show if it was rebooted or not, I would get a 'yes' answer from 90% of the crowd.
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    The issue with this idea is that it basically means they have to take huge steps backward in the story just to deal with early installment weirdness. Like a huge amount of character build up, the plot reveals, and the story would all be reset back to zero. That fucks the story right up from the get-go. Rebooting now would just add problems rather than solve anything. I mean to me at least it seems like they've finally settled down and figured out where they're going with this, so starting over is just going to hurt their momentum. That's even assuming most of the cast and crew would even agree to do it at this point. Like if RWBY was some short story on Wordpress a full reboot would work, but it's not. It's a massive production involving dozens if not hundreds of people, with merch deals, distribution deals, and more companies than we likely know who are involved in some way with the show. It would cause so many issues long term that frankly even trying would likely just kill the show.
     
    Nahh people wouldn't like that.

    Rebooting it means making Monty's direct contributions, the fights and animations he worked himself to the bone over irrelevant.

    The fan base reacted just as negatively as the animators themselves when the idea of remaking the first 3 volumes in Maya came up. Worts and all there very much Monty's legacy. Especially since they were the last stuff he ever worked on

    Those volumes have sentimental value to a very large group of people that far outstrips there obvious problems.

    That's not even getting into the people who lose there minds anytime they decide Miles and Kerry are doing something "Monty wouldn't have wanted". You think they would react positively to RT throwing out Monty's work? Fuck no.

    And to go further, V6 has been received extremely positively pretty much every were that matters. Couple that with the attachment people have to these characters and just how long it would take to get back to v6...like what you think that would be a smart business decision? Reboot a massively popular series 6 years into it and redo everything with all the plot points already known?

    There is no place anywhere on the spectrum from cold business logic to purely passionate sentimental attachment where rebooting it would be a good idea.

    Especially not when as already stated V6 is pretty universally being received as the very best the show has ever been
     
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    I think they're trying to make long term arcs for some of the characters rather than the V4 Ren & Nora situation where suddenly you get a mini arc focused on them and then you forget about them for a while.

    The problem is that the fans think that if Yang isn't PTSDing in every scene and Jaune isn't yelling at Ozpin in every scene, that must mean they totally got over their completely unresolved issues

    Psyga315 said:
    I never really liked the idea of "rebooting". Though I think that's because of Hollywood cramming reboots down our throats, to the point there they can just reboot the reboot of a reboot without even trying.

    But here's the thing: rebooting RWBY would be a huge slap in the face to the fans who had spent the past six years watching the show, especially in the middle of a story. You know how stupid that would be?

    "We gotta stop Salem and- WHOOPS! REBOOT TIME! NOW WE'RE BACK AT BEACON! Okay, so now we can do a lot of stuff we already did before and, what's that? People hated this? WELP! REBOOT TIME! NOW WE'RE BACK AT BEACON!"

    It's actually infuriating for me to think that's a likely possibility, especially with all the time, effort, money, blood, sweat, and tears they put into the show. Hell, Monty didn't die to see his passion project get rehashed just because they could have told the story better.

    But, that's only if the reboot is just a straight up "we canned the show, now enjoy the reboot!".

    If we're talking a spin-off of a different medium, like a manga or a novel, that reboots and retells the story (like how you have Sword Art Online and its Progressive counterpart or the Ultimate Marvel line of comics), then that's something I can agree with.
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    There's more than one kind of reboot.

    They could do an alternate timeline kind of thing where someone uses time travel powers to change reality or a legend of Zelda kind of thing where every 100 or 1000 years redesigned clones appear to re-enact the same conflict from before.

    Or they could end the series and then start RWBY Z/Super/Shippuden or RNJR or whatever and use the seperation to rewrite the rules (part 1 of naruto clearly does not function on the rules of part 2 and vice versa) and foundation/mechanics of the series.
     
    I always thought that the current Manga adaptation was sort of meant to be a reboot since it starts back at Volume 1 and can fix/add all the excess material that came about as time went on.
     
    Slater said:
    Nahh people wouldn't like that.

    Rebooting it means making Monty's direct contributions, the fights and animations he worked himself to the bone over irrelevant.

    The fan base reacted just as negatively as the animators themselves when the idea of remaking the first 3 volumes in Maya came up. Worts and all there very much Monty's legacy. Especially since they were the last stuff he ever worked on

    Those volumes have sentimental value to a very large group of people that far outstrips there obvious problems.

    That's not even getting into the people who lose there minds anytime they decide Miles and Kerry are doing something "Monty wouldn't have wanted". You think they would react positively to RT throwing out Monty's work? Fuck no.

    And to go further, V6 has been received extremely positively pretty much every were that matters. Couple that with the attachment people have to these characters and just how long it would take to get back to v6...like what you think that would be a smart business decision? Reboot a massively popular series 6 years into it and redo everything with all the plot points already known?

    There is no place anywhere on the spectrum from cold business logic to purely passionate sentimental attachment where rebooting it would be a good idea.

    Especially not when as already stated V6 is pretty universally being received as the very best the show has ever been
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    But they'll still watch it. I could name some fans on this board who probably wouldn't even send an angry email if it happened.
     
    Fan are perfectly willing to watch good shows gone to garbage if favorite characters are still around and recognizably themselves, the rare good features stick around, the community remains engaging, and myriad other reasons—just look at Supernatural still going strong on its dozenth season or so. I'd expect fans to be even more tolerant of a bad show trying to get better.
     
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