RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
 
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Classic UWU
Neat!
Goofy Knight x Princess AU Whiterose
This is adorable, I love it XD

This is a bit like the whole "Can't hinder the Cinder" and "Cinder is an idiot" angles, where-in I think people's dislike for a character kinda blinds them to the fact they are doing more than what they say because they don't necessarily say much at all.
 
Classic UWU

Neat!

This is adorable, I love it XD

This is a bit like the whole "Can't hinder the Cinder" and "Cinder is an idiot" angles, where-in I think people's dislike for a character kinda blinds them to the fact they are doing more than what they say because they don't necessarily say much at all.

She was planning to fight, but when Yang offered to do the fighting for her with worse capabilities than what this theory proposes Raven ran? That doesn't exactly make her look good either.
 
Classic UWU

Neat!

This is adorable, I love it XD

This is a bit like the whole "Can't hinder the Cinder" and "Cinder is an idiot" angles, where-in I think people's dislike for a character kinda blinds them to the fact they are doing more than what they say because they don't necessarily say much at all.


And there is an easy counter to Raven fleeing by portal, the people on the other side.
Capture those Raven is bonded to and Raven can't bounce so easily.
 
Classic UWU

Neat!

This is adorable, I love it XD

This is a bit like the whole "Can't hinder the Cinder" and "Cinder is an idiot" angles, where-in I think people's dislike for a character kinda blinds them to the fact they are doing more than what they say because they don't necessarily say much at all.

Here is the thing, I don't think that Raven do plans, I think that she might have some grand plans but everything that we seen about her points out that those plans tend to never get past step 1.5 before going up in flames and leving her with no other option that to stick with the burning wreck all the way to the end and then pretend that it was all part of the plan.
 
Classic UWU

Neat!

This is adorable, I love it XD

This is a bit like the whole "Can't hinder the Cinder" and "Cinder is an idiot" angles, where-in I think people's dislike for a character kinda blinds them to the fact they are doing more than what they say because they don't necessarily say much at all.

I feel like this gives Raven far more credit than she is due. First of all, there's no evidence that she has that many close bonds to portal to. If she did, why did she escape to Tai of all people? IMO, it seems that Vernal was the only person in the tribe she was that close to.

If she had all of that figured out, why would she drop it all to let Yang take the relic? Yang said it herself - Raven is not brave, she is a coward. I personally think that the only reason she was going to take the relic was because she knew that the fight with Cinder was 100% inevitable and she hoped to gain a bargaining chip in the aftermath.
 
She was planning to fight, but when Yang offered to do the fighting for her with worse capabilities than what this theory proposes Raven ran? That doesn't exactly make her look good either.
I feel like this gives Raven far more credit than she is due. First of all, there's no evidence that she has that many close bonds to portal to. If she did, why did she escape to Tai of all people? IMO, it seems that Vernal was the only person in the tribe she was that close to.

If she had all of that figured out, why would she drop it all to let Yang take the relic? Yang said it herself - Raven is not brave, she is a coward. I personally think that the only reason she was going to take the relic was because she knew that the fight with Cinder was 100% inevitable and she hoped to gain a bargaining chip in the aftermath.
This isn't about making Raven look good, her motives for fighting weren't noble they were "My back is against the fucking wall and I have no other choice" she wasn't doing it for nobility but for want of other options that didn't end with her dead, working for Ozpin or enslaved to Salem.

As to how many connections she has, given she just had a big heart to heart (So to speak) with Yang going to him might feel more natural or instinctive, or she wanted to be as far away as possible, or she only showed up there later, or yes she indeed lacks other bonds, though that does still give her Vernal and Tai and Yang and Qrow as potential outs if she needs to move fast.
And there is an easy counter to Raven fleeing by portal, the people on the other side.
Capture those Raven is bonded to and Raven can't bounce so easily.
That means identifying, finding and catching them, which is especially hard as Raven can seemingly sense when they are in danger given she materialized out of nowhere to save Yang in V2. This is in no way a simple task.
Here is the thing, I don't think that Raven do plans, I think that she might have some grand plans but everything that we seen about her points out that those plans tend to never get past step 1.5 before going up in flames and leving her with no other option that to stick with the burning wreck all the way to the end and then pretend that it was all part of the plan.
And what do you base this on beyond no plan surviving contact with the enemy?
 

You think it would be hard to find those close to Raven for what remains of Salem's forces?
It's all a matter of finding who is connected to who.
Salem's group know full well who Qrow Branwen is. They know who Yang is. I would not be surprised if they can easily find out about Tai if they don't know already.
And location? They know Qrow is out on the front lines now ever since Tyrian's hunt for Ruby back in V4. As for Yang, much like Qrow she is at the front lines. And Tai? Doubt it would be to hard to find who in Vale is connected to both Qrow and Yang and find he lives alone on Patch, an island.

If Raven did get away with the Lamp, then she'd only have a momentary reprieve at best as Salem would probably just brush it off as "Something to take care of later". After all, it's as Salem told Ironwood. "Time isn't on your side, James. It's always been on mine." If the Lamp was in the hands of wandering thieves it would not be in Oz's hand and she can take her sweet time hunting them down.
 
You think it would be hard to find those close to Raven for what remains of Salem's forces?
It's all a matter of finding who is connected to who.
Salem's group know full well who Qrow Branwen is. They know who Yang is. I would not be surprised if they can easily find out about Tai if they don't know already.
And location? They know Qrow is out on the front lines now ever since Tyrian's hunt for Ruby back in V4. As for Yang, much like Qrow she is at the front lines. And Tai? Doubt it would be to hard to find who in Vale is connected to both Qrow and Yang and find he lives alone on Patch, an island.

If Raven did get away with the Lamp, then she'd only have a momentary reprieve at best as Salem would probably just brush it off as "Something to take care of later". After all, it's as Salem told Ironwood. "Time isn't on your side, James. It's always been on mine." If the Lamp was in the hands of wandering thieves it would not be in Oz's hand and she can take her sweet time hunting them down.
Yes? If Raven knows she's being hunted it would be very hard to find them, she's not terribly demonstrative and whenever she uses a portal she could end up on the other side of the world for all Salem knows. Unless she has agents literally everywhere, which she does not, she's basically trying to find a teleporting needle in a haystack. Let alone the fact they can defend themselves and Raven can just open a portal to them if they are in danger.

Yeah again, Raven was not doing this to be heroic, this was not her ideal situation, this was her "I don't wanna die, serve Salem or Ozpin" last resort option.
 
they were "My back is against the fucking wall and I have no other choice"
Which is funny because she landed herself in that situation in the first place.

Raven: Look, my bandit tribe is so powerful, they burninated this random village!

Qrow: You killed a lot of people.

Raven: Erm, erm, the Grimm got to them!

Qrow: Yo, Leo, they got the Maiden. Let's go nab em to get the Relic.

Leo: BRB, leaking the info to Mommy Salami.
 
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And what do you base this on beyond no plan surviving contact with the enemy?
That Raven can't admit that she understands how Raven really thinks, so her plans fall apart when something happens that scares her, makes her feel guilty or just makes her show her human side she drops the plan and does something else.

Vernal was the perfect example of that, she came up with a cold blooded plan of sacrificing Vernal to save herself, yet when Cinder moved to betray them she actually tried to protect Vernal instead of trying to backstab Cinder while she was busy killing Vernal, because no matter how much she wanted to pretend otherwise she cared about Vernal and didn't want to loose her. Hell, she even made an attempt to protect Yang from the dangers of carrying the lamp, it was half assed and crumbled the second that Yang put a little resistance, because that is the thing that I find more interesting about Raven she obviously has a pretty strong moral compass and sense of right and wrong is too much of coward to actually act on it but she still feels extremely guilty about it and pretends to be a big bad bandid in hope that at some point she will actually believe it and stop feeling guilty.
 
That Raven can't admit that she understands how Raven really thinks, so her plans fall apart when something happens that scares her, makes her feel guilty or just makes her show her human side she drops the plan and does something else.

Vernal was the perfect example of that, she came up with a cold blooded plan of sacrificing Vernal to save herself, yet when Cinder moved to betray them she actually tried to protect Vernal instead of trying to backstab Cinder while she was busy killing Vernal, because no matter how much she wanted to pretend otherwise she cared about Vernal and didn't want to loose her. Hell, she even made an attempt to protect Yang from the dangers of carrying the lamp, it was half assed and crumbled the second that Yang put a little resistance, because that is the thing that I find more interesting about Raven she obviously has a pretty strong moral compass and sense of right and wrong is too much of coward to actually act on it but she still feels extremely guilty about it and pretends to be a big bad bandid in hope that at some point she will actually believe it and stop feeling guilty.
Plus she knew there was gonna be a sudden but inevitable betrayal coming but she still had that surprised Pikachu face when Cinder decided to have her sudden but inevitable betrayal.
 
That Raven can't admit that she understands how Raven really thinks, so her plans fall apart when something happens that scares her, makes her feel guilty or just makes her show her human side she drops the plan and does something else.

Vernal was the perfect example of that, she came up with a cold blooded plan of sacrificing Vernal to save herself, yet when Cinder moved to betray them she actually tried to protect Vernal instead of trying to backstab Cinder while she was busy killing Vernal, because no matter how much she wanted to pretend otherwise she cared about Vernal and didn't want to loose her. Hell, she even made an attempt to protect Yang from the dangers of carrying the lamp, it was half assed and crumbled the second that Yang put a little resistance, because that is the thing that I find more interesting about Raven she obviously has a pretty strong moral compass and sense of right and wrong is too much of coward to actually act on it but she still feels extremely guilty about it and pretends to be a big bad bandid in hope that at some point she will actually believe it and stop feeling guilty.
Gonna be honest this feels like kind of a stretch to me given this is actually just 1 plan seen and trying to defend Vernal is a logical choice given Vernal is, yes someone she cares for, but also a skilled fighter, portal beacon and would be really helpful in the fight. The idea behind Vernal was never "Let her die" that would be a really stupid way to use someone who is meant to be acting as your impersonator; if you let the person who is meant to pretend to be you die instantly then you need to find and train another, but unlike a doppelganger, you don't need to find someone who can pass for you in looks, but someone who could believably be a Maiden which is actually harder to pull off given how hard they are to find and train, which would make it obvious Raven is the Maiden.

Basically, I think you entirely misunderstood Vernal's role in this, yes she is there to draw the enemies attention but it is not to die instantly, because that would be a complete waste of the entire premise of her role.
 


Oh look, another post that removes context and did not understand what happened.
Look, could the scene with Jaune and WBY of been done better? Yes, but a fair few things got cut as they had to readjust the last few episodes.

But let's go over what happened.

Ruby and Jaune had both had issues piling up on their souls for a long time. Ruby for days of little rest and trying to carry everything on her shoulders and while things keep falling apart. Jaune has held on to his issues for lord knows how long while he was stuck in the Ever After.
They both cracked at the same time. Ruby from everyone constantly turning to her and she was just finally done with everything. Jaune from seeing the thing he had dedicated a long time to protecting get destroyed and then insulted. They lashed out and hurt each other. Jaune crumbled and Ruby ran.
Ruby, on her own, ran into Neo's domain and was both verbally and physically broken down until she was to tired to keep being herself. Cat betrays her, Little gets crushed right in front of her, and her spirit was finally broken. Not even seeing her friends was enough to give her pause. Meanwhile WBY and Jaune were to stunned to stop it from happening.
Ruby falls, Cat grabs Neo and books it, and WBYJ have to fall back to the paper village to try and process what happened and what to do next. WBYJ are given a moment to actually stop, think, and process. The hug is a show of support between friends. They see that the Paper Pleasers have become the Genial Gems. They put the puzzle pieces together and end up at the tree and begin looking for Ruby.

Now what happens after Ruby gets out of the tree and the finish fighting the cat?
They hug. They are all happy to be together again. Why? Because like back at Haven, that's what matters. They are friends. They are family. They are together.
 
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Stop: Pysga315 has been permanently removed from the thread. Pariah has been removed from the thread for one week.
pysga315 has been permanently removed from the thread. pariah has been removed from the thread for one week.
As per his previous warnings, Psyga315 has been removed permanently from the thread for disruptive behaviour. Additionally, Pariah has been removed from the thread temporarily - it is not acceptable to snipe at another user. If you believe their posts are against the rules, report them.
 
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