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RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • Zam said:
    Very good breakdown/theory:

    View: https://www.tumblr.com/anthurak/739880401869389824/so-heres-something-interesting-ive-been-mulling?source=share
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    It's definitely an interesting theory, though I think the series has confirmed that Ironwood was the General before he became a Headmaster.

    The dialogue that cinches it is in the V7 episode, "As Above, so Below" during the councilor meeting at Schnee Manor, where Camilla says, "General, since the day you were appointed Headmaster, there have been Atlesians who are skeptical of one man holding two Council seats."

    Which indicates he already had his military council seat before getting the Headmaster one.

    Though I do think it's a pretty interesting theory/"what if".
     
    Zam said:
    Very good breakdown/theory:

    View: https://www.tumblr.com/anthurak/739880401869389824/so-heres-something-interesting-ive-been-mulling?source=share
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    I'm not sure this explanation stands up to scrutiny.

    National militaries typically have more than one flag officer in every branch. Even disregarding the power plays, there's always some subordinate next in line to be promoted and take someone else's place.

    I have no issues with believing Ironwood's predecessor was a former Headmaster who became Commanding General. I do have issues with no other AAF senior officer contesting Ironwood's appointment as (acting?) Commanding General rather than someone in his predecessor's chain of command.

    EDIT: Minor ninjas with @MetropolisMCU's point about Ironwood being C-in-C before Headmaster. Ironwood's appointment as Headmaster while also being Commanding General seems somewhat controversial even in-universe. Was there someone else angling for the seat?


    Although, that raises some more questions:
    In addition to how the concepts of democratic rule and electoralism seem to still be in their infancy on Remnant, the Atlesian armed forces appear to be an entity unto themselves, answerable to no civilian cabinet minister and only partially beholden to the other councilmembers. Perhaps the militaries and council systems are still rooted in semi-medieval mindsets? Were they evolutions of privy councils/royal cabinets with only token democratic representation? Does every appointment of a new Commanding General result in a minor power struggle in the ranks?

    (Christ, RWBY can have some shit worldbuilding.)
     
    Is it shit world building if it doesn't really matter in the long run?
    I mean, narratively speaking does it matter if he was General before Headmaster or vice-versa?
    What matters is that he had 2 seats and thus had more power in the current 4-seat council, and that an active 5th seat could jeopardize that authority Ironwood was using to steamroll his plans through.
     
    Mazeka said:
    I'm not sure this explanation stands up to scrutiny.

    National militaries typically have more than one flag officer in every branch. Even disregarding the power plays, there's always some subordinate next in line to be promoted and take someone else's place.

    I have no issues with believing Ironwood's predecessor was a former Headmaster who became Commanding General. I do have issues with no other AAF senior officer contesting Ironwood's appointment as (acting?) Commanding General rather than someone in his predecessor's chain of command.

    EDIT: Minor ninjas with @MetropolisMCU's point about Ironwood being C-in-C before Headmaster. Ironwood's appointment as Headmaster while also being Commanding General seems somewhat controversial even in-universe. Was there someone else angling for the seat?


    Although, that raises some more questions:
    In addition to how the concepts of democratic rule and electoralism seem to still be in their infancy on Remnant, the Atlesian armed forces appear to be an entity unto themselves, answerable to no civilian cabinet minister and only partially beholden to the other councilmembers. Perhaps the militaries and council systems are still rooted in semi-medieval mindsets? Were they evolutions of privy councils/royal cabinets with only token democratic representation? Does every appointment of a new Commanding General result in a minor power struggle in the ranks?

    (Christ, RWBY can have some shit worldbuilding.)
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    I am of the idea that Atlas military isn't a continuation of the old Mantelian army but of the Allied occupation forces that arrived after the war, it explains very neatly why it is so independent as it didn't answer to the Mantelian, and then Atlasian, government and was in turn there to keep said government in check in case they decided to act on their unfulfilled imperial ambitions.

    The problem is that over the years the OF took over more and more civic duties until they were the defacto, and thne de jure, government but it has never actually fully shed it's role as an occupation force meant to keep Mantle down.

    Also it wouldn't surprise me if Ironwood first got the position of Headmaster offered to him with the expectation that he would quit his position as CIC of the Atlessian armed forces but because there wasn't a legal requirement to do so he never did.
     
    ShadowEMT said:
    I am of the idea that Atlas military isn't a continuation of the old Mantelian army but of the Allied occupation forces that arrived after the war, it explains very neatly why it is so independent as it didn't answer to the Mantelian, and then Atlasian, government and was in turn there to keep said government in check in case they decided to act on their unfulfilled imperial ambitions.

    The problem is that over the years the OF took over more and more civic duties until they were the defacto, and thne de jure, government but it has never actually fully shed it's role as an occupation force meant to keep Mantle down.
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    Except that the Atlesian military was made of Atlesian people, nowhere is it said or even hinted that they are from a foreign occupation force, or descendant from foreigners.
    The simplest explanation IMHO is that Atlas (ex-Mantle) stayed culturally very militaristic even after its defeat in the war, and little by little the military took more and more influence in the affairs of the country, until the state we see it in the show proper, and that's it.
     
    ElMariachi said:
    The simplest explanation IMHO is that Atlas (ex-Mantle) stayed culturally very militaristic even after its defeat in the war, and little by little the military took more and more influence in the affairs of the country, until the state we see it in the show proper, and that's it.
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    That seems to be a reoccuring thing.
    No nation seemed to really LEARN from the war.


    EDIT:
    It's Blake's Birthday!

    EDIT 2:
    goofy birthday

    View: https://www.tumblr.com/dummybirdnero/739995126797058048/blake-birthday-but-instead-goofy-blake-3
     
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    MetropolisMCU said:
    , "General, since the day you were appointed Headmaster, there have been Atlesians who are skeptical of one man holding two Council seats."
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    In truth yeah that was my original thought, though I had forgotten the specifics of the dialogue enough to think it had been more vague, fair point!
    Mazeka said:
    In addition to how the concepts of democratic rule and electoralism seem to still be in their infancy on Remnant, the Atlesian armed forces appear to be an entity unto themselves, answerable to no civilian cabinet minister and only partially beholden to the other councilmembers. Perhaps the militaries and council systems are still rooted in semi-medieval mindsets? Were they evolutions of privy councils/royal cabinets with only token democratic representation? Does every appointment of a new Commanding General result in a minor power struggle in the ranks?

    (Christ, RWBY can have some shit worldbuilding.)
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    This all feels rather presumptuous to me to be honest, how do we know its a new concept, just because kingdoms/imperial powers were ruling the roost before the great war. Democracies sin our world came and went and came again rather than being something that only recently came up and there's no reason to think it can't have been the same in Remnant. Beyond that, the reason the military seems to have the level of influence it does seems to be down to Ironwoods positions and the councils willingness to enable him right up until it seems like he's gonna go full dictator and or destroy the country with his rampant paranoia. Regardless I don't think this is a reflection of bad world building, most/tons of series with military do not spend any or much time expanding on how it got to be the way it is or why it functions as it does, this isn't a new thing, its the norm.
    Pugman said:
    It's Blake's Birthday!
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    That it was and goofy Blake being a cutie as always, RWBY, Blake and Greenlight all got trending yesterday from it too XD

    Plus so much good art!

    View: https://www.tumblr.com/jindianjun000/739965338119274496?source=share
     
    so I got curious and checked numbers
    putting in a box for those curious
    Volume 1 - 1:54:00

    Volume 2 - 2:32:06

    Volume 3 - 2:58:05

    Beacon Arc total run time - 7:24:11
    -
    Volume 4 - 3:15:02

    Volume 5 - 3:46:36

    Volume 6 - 3:12:23

    Mistral Arc total run time - 10:14:01
    -
    Volume 7 - 3:59:35

    Volume 8 - 4:26:39

    Volume 9 - 3:08:53

    Atlas Arc total run time - 11:35:07

    Total time in just Atlas - 8:26:14
    -
    FULL TOTAL RUN TIME - 1:05:13:19 (so 29 hours, 13 Minutes, 19 seconds)
    -
    V8 is the longest run time, while V9 is the shortest post-Beacon
     
    LI don't think there's anything deeper to Adam stans than

    "But he's so cool" and "If evil why hot?"

    People don't want to give up the aesthetic of a masked black coated man with a red katana. Which yeah I get it. Whenever I try to make oc's I have to stop myself from making a man with a cool coat and a katana. But ultimately it's just an unwillingness to accept that the aesthetic was all Adam was.
     
    I actually wondered through volume 3 if Adam was going to show some depth and backstab Cinder in some way at the end of the volume, given she recruited him at gunpoint. Then beacon happened and it became clear that, just like Roman, he would always submit to someone more powerful.
     
    Matrix Dragon said:
    I actually wondered through volume 3 if Adam was going to show some depth and backstab Cinder in some way at the end of the volume, given she recruited him at gunpoint. Then beacon happened and it became clear that, just like Roman, he would always submit to someone more powerful.
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    Adam is a Serial Killer in search of justification and a excuse, in his time with the WF he spend time basically manufacturing excuses to kill people and then came Cinder with an plan to cause unbelievable slaughter and an perfect excuse as to why he joined with her, after all if anyone asked him he didn't want to cause the Fall of Beacon but Cinder strong armed him, please ignore all the times that he had the opportunity to stab her in the back and bug out.

    Cinder is good at reading people she knew that all she needed to control Adam was a paper thin excuse for him to align him working for her to his own internal narrative and then his own blood lust would take care of the rest, hell look at his dialog with Sienna in his eyes he wasn't an unwilling participant of the greatest slaughter of modern history but one of it's architects.
     
    ShadowEMT said:
    Adam is a Serial Killer in search of justification and a excuse, in his time with the WF he spend time basically manufacturing excuses to kill people and then came Cinder with an plan to cause unbelievable slaughter and an perfect excuse as to why he joined with her, after all if anyone asked him he didn't want to cause the Fall of Beacon but Cinder strong armed him, please ignore all the times that he had the opportunity to stab her in the back and bug out.

    Cinder is good at reading people she knew that all she needed to control Adam was a paper thin excuse for him to align him working for her to his own internal narrative and then his own blood lust would take care of the rest, hell look at his dialog with Sienna in his eyes he wasn't an unwilling participant of the greatest slaughter of modern history but one of it's architects.
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    Oh, agreed on all points really. My musing was back when V3 aired, right at the flashback episode. It was then to be nothing more than musing a few episodes later :)
     
    Honestly the simple fact Cinder went to Adam rather than the White Fang's actual leader, and how quickly she twigged both Emerald and Mercury's motivations when she met them should have been a pretty loud alarm bell that Adam was not who he presented himself to be.
     
    Zam said:
    Honestly the simple fact Cinder went to Adam rather than the White Fang's actual leader, and how quickly she twigged both Emerald and Mercury's motivations when she met them should have been a pretty loud alarm bell that Adam was not who he presented himself to be.
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    To be fair, Sienna was over in Mistral. The commute for evil hench meetings would be a bitch.
     
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