Remove ads

RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

Reader mode
Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
    Last edited:
  • Staff Post
    • hellgodsrus said:
    Also you can't really refute any of their points without spoilers, which are banned (apart from when they do it for some reason?). So...
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    The sooner Lelia starts watching the other seasons, the sooner you can refute their points. Until then, there's not much to do unless everyone moved the discussion here.
     
    hellgodsrus said:
    But it's fair and unbiased criticism :V

    Also you can't really refute any of their points without spoilers, which are banned (apart from when they do it for some reason?). So...
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Yeah but really tho I don't mind the criticism of volume 1 since it is actually a really janky and
    rough volume in the series in fact it's kind of hard to go back and watch even as a fan but what really bothers me is how hostile everyone is there about RT and other fans
     
    Remove ads
    [Public] Volume 5, Chapter 8: Alone Together
  • Threadmarks
    • It's probably better to bring this here.
    Reveen said:
    Okay.

    What is RWBY? Like, what are the central concepts, thematic through lines, and basic story of the show?
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    The primary theme of the show is that you can't fix the world with violence alone, I.E "There is no victory in strength."

    Salem and Ozpin's opening monologue about how there is no victory in strength, but instead in a smaller, more honest soul, Ironwood's attempts to brute-force problems make things worse, and even how Jaune's initial story arc about seeking strength on his own got him nothing.

    RWBY is not subtle about it's themes. The opening monologue is all but telling the watcher the themes.
     
    Last edited:
  • Threadmarks
    • Remove ads
    So this is more of an aside done here as opposed to SB where it might cause more drama but a frequent subject has come up over there and elsewhere about the shadiness or lack there-of of Opzin and the conspiracy, of Salem, ETC and I've seen many suggest that its ultimately going to have to come down to choosing between the evil destruction of Salem or the good of Ozpin and how the words of monsters aren't reliable.

    And OK, I get that but here's my view from a purely narrative stand point.

    What's the point?

    ______________________________________________________________
    By which I mean, what's the point introducing Salem and Ozpin as having known each other and her apparently having 'forgotten' good traits?

    What's the point in having multiple songs or segments where a villain has no reason to lie but still have them casting shade at Ozpin and co?

    What's the point in Cinder and Salem viewing the magic as rightfully theirs and Ozpin as arrogant and Cinder's tone of seeming genuine offence regarding his decisions?

    What's the point in song lyrics sung from villainous/antagonist perspective where they say stuff like:
    "dark, sick, cruel design / Have you no shame? / Signing them up for your war / Your sins are what they'll pay for / Sacrifice them For your needs"
    &
    "Did the things you thought you should. All the things they said were good. / All your faith in ancient ways, Leaves you trapped inside a maze. Take the lives of those you need, Sow the death then reap the seed. / What if all the plans you made, Were not worth the price they paid? Even with the lives you stole, Still no closer to your...Goal."

    What's the point in having characters make statements that in summary are basically:
    Ozpin is keeping stuff from you.
    He did bad things to us.
    I felt it was better to be a bandit than work for his conspiracy.
    His methods are messed up.
    He can't be trusted, no one can.

    What's the point in raising the question of whether he's moral or trustworthy if its going to lead to maybe 2 minutes of drama and then get resolved?

    What's the point in keeping Salem's origins and exact motives secret with those potentially in the know dodging the questions unless her background is at least going to make people raise their eyebrows?
    _____________________________________________

    In other words, while I can grasp 'why' people feel it will come down to a choice between being evil or good, or more accurately, with Salem or Ozpin, I feel that if its going to be that simplistic then what's the point in doing all of the above? They might as well have just made Salem Rita Respulsor and Ozpin the floating head of morality if its going to be nothing more than a "She's evil, he's good, fight for good" kind of deal.
     
    Last edited:
    Zam said:
    So this is more of an aside done here as opposed to SB where it might cause more drama but a frequent subject has come up over there and elsewhere about the shadiness or lack there-of of Opzin and the conspiracy, of Salem, ETC and I've seen many suggest that its ultimately going to have to come down to choosing between the evil destruction of Salem or the good of Ozpin and how the words of monsters aren't reliable.

    And OK, I get that but here's my view from a purely narrative stand point.

    What's the point?

    ______________________________________________________________
    By which I mean, what's the point introducing Salem and Ozpin as having known each other and her apparently having 'forgotten' good traits?

    What's the point in having multiple songs or segments where a villain has no reason to lie but still have them casting shade at Ozpin and co?

    What's the point in Cinder and Salem viewing the magic as rightfully theirs and Ozpin as arrogant and Cinder's tone of seeming genuine offence regarding his decisions?

    What's the point in song lyrics sung from villainous/antagonist perspective where they say stuff like:
    "dark, sick, cruel design / Have you no shame? / Signing them up for your war / Your sins are what they'll pay for / Sacrifice them For your needs"
    &
    "Did the things you thought you should. All the things they said were good. / All your faith in ancient ways, Leaves you trapped inside a maze. Take the lives of those you need, Sow the death then reap the seed. / What if all the plans you made, Were not worth the price they paid? Even with the lives you stole, Still no closer to your...Goal."

    What's the point in having characters make statements that in summary are basically:
    Ozpin is keeping stuff from you.
    He did bad things to us.
    I felt it was better to be a bandit than work for his conspiracy.
    His methods are messed up.
    He can't be trusted, no one can.

    What's the point in raising the question of whether he's moral or trustworthy if its going to lead to maybe 2 minutes of drama and then get resolved?

    What's the point in keeping Salem's origins and exact motives secret with those potentially in the know dodging the questions unless her background is at least going to make people raise their eyebrows?
    _____________________________________________

    In other words, while I can grasp 'why' people feel it will come down to a choice between being evil or good, or more accurately, with Salem or Ozpin, I feel that if its going to be that simplistic then what's the point in doing all of the above? They might as well have just made Salem Rita Respulsor and Ozpin the floating head of morality if its going to be nothing more than a "She's evil, he's good, fight for good" kind of deal.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Forced mistrust drama to entice theories going no where? Never

    Its to deepen and personalize. And its established Ozpin is a flawed mentor. Albeit not a useless one.

    The Wizard of Oz was oppurtunistic and deceptive, even AFTER he stopped pretending to be king. But he's not a 'bad man' just a duplicitous showman who feels more likely to dazzle and lie.

    But me, personally? Wicked ruined Maleficent. But I DO imagine some parity. After all Ozpin HAS been fighting Salem. that's not...going to be neat
     
    Last edited:
    Darmani said:
    Forced mistrust drama to entice theories going no where? Never

    Its to deepen and personalize. And its established Ozpin is a flawed mentor. Albeit not a useless one.

    The Wizard of Oz was oppurtunistic and deceptive, even AFTER he stopped pretending to be king. But he's not a 'bad man' just a duplicitous showman who feels more likely to dazzle and lie.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    So you're saying they are nothing but red herrings to bring about fan discourse?

    I don't see how all the stuff about his "Dark sick, cruel, designs" would do that.

    While I enjoy the fairy tale inspirations, the characters don't actually seem to take that much from their sources save some aesthetic inspiration and maybe some narrative parallels if some of those beauty and the beast theories are right, so I don't feel citing the wizard necessarily works, especially given there were version where he was outright villainous weren't there?
     
    Tython82 said:
    Wait the Wicked Witch of the East is named Maleficent? in that production and she's not the main villain of Sleeping Beauty?
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Wicked refers to a musical and a novel that is noted for reinterpreting the Wicked Witch of the West as something of a stand-in for alternative lifestyle people who was assassinated due to not fitting into a fairytale image. It's been described as Frozen before Frozen. A big problem with this is that it's led to all female villainesses getting the treatment where they're not really that bad it's the patriarchy that made them so bad.
    a few years back Disney started doing live action remix. And you can painfully see a lot of the style and ideas that would inform the book and the play trying to be applied to Maleficent
     
    Darmani said:
    Wicked refers to a musical and a novel that is noted for reinterpreting the Wicked Witch of the West as something of a stand-in for alternative lifestyle people who was assassinated due to not fitting into a fairytale image. It's been described as Frozen before Frozen. A big problem with this is that it's led to all female villainesses getting the treatment where they're not really that bad it's the patriarchy that made them so bad.
    a few years back Disney started doing live action remix. And you can painfully see a lot of the style and ideas that would inform the book and the play trying to be applied to Maleficent
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    So I am guessing this is some anti 'Social Justice' thing on your part?

    Also, you do know there was a Jafar musical built around the same kind of "The villain is not necessarily the villain" right?

    Edit:

    Also 'all' female villains? That's like, two.
     
    Zam said:
    So I am guessing this is some anti 'Social Justice' thing on your part?

    Also, you do know there was a Jafar musical built around the same kind of "The villain is not necessarily the villain" right?

    Edit:

    Also 'all' female villains? That's like, two.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Well the Cinderella live action remake did try to make the "evil" Step mother more relate-able and not as evil as she was originally portrayed.
     
    Tython82 said:
    Well the Cinderella live action remake did try to make the "evil" Step mother more relate-able and not as evil as she was originally portrayed.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    I haven't seen the movie so I can't comment, plus we are getting way off topic, but lots of villains get to be made more relatable these days, especially in stuff geared more towards adults.
     
    [FIRST] Volume 5, Chapter 9: A Perfect Storm
  • Threadmarks
    • Volume 5, Chapter 9: A Perfect Storm is up for FIRST members.

    Cinder and crew show up while Raven's sharpening her blade, Raven's just like "Get me my helmet. I'll deal with these fuckers."

    Snark ensues. For a brief moment, I loved Raven for ascending to being the Queen of Snark.

    And then she spoiled that by asking to make killing Qrow part of the deal in which she assists Cinder & Co in getting the relic of knowledge.

    But that may have been a ploy.

    Shift over to Menagerie...

    Ghira isn't dead yet, Sun and Blake show up just in time, and now Ghira and Sun are facing off against the brothers while Blake is facing off against Ilia.

    No sign of Kali.

    Raven teleports to Qrow right as the episode wraps up... now I'm wondering what she's there to do. She gonna warn him?
     
  • Threadmarks
    • Ok. That fight scene was awful. So was most of the rest of the scene. But you know what? I can live with that! Because the rest of the episode was pretty nice.

    Calling it now. Raven is bringing in Qrow so he can distract the rest and by making sure that Leo shows himself as a traitor Oz's team has an immediate lead to screw Salem over thereby giving her and SolarEquinox a chance to run. Grabbing the helmet felt silly, especially seeing the helmet when Raven was standing around. Rest of the scene was solid due to snark and Watts trying to figure out what everyone's game was.

    Emerald is probably going to hesitate on killing Ruby and the others. If that got her killed that'd be interesting but I don't think that's where they're going. Not sure if Mercury would be cheery because annoying coworker is dead or kind of pissed because he actually kind of liked her or it's poor form to have a coworker killed.

    The Menagerie scenes were kind of awful. The fight just wasn't interesting or well animated. The twin's weapons were...so boring. Same for how Sun blocked it by just twirling his staff without any feedback effect(no wind to the sides, no sparks, no pushback). Same for when Blake clonestopped the twins then they spent the next fifteen seconds casually talking while they could have finished off the enemy! Not even doing anything, just standing still and talking.

    That being said...the last shots with Illia was pretty damned good framing. I expect them to ruin it in the next episode but that was genuinely solid intro'ing.

    I liiiiked it, but comparing it to the oooold monty fights I'm shocked at how all of RWBY fight's kind of suck by comparison. That and the rest just isn't too great even if I like the show still.
     
    Dream Logic said:
    Ok. That fight scene was awful. So was most of the rest of the scene. But you know what? I can live with that! Because the rest of the episode was pretty nice.

    Calling it now. Raven is bringing in Qrow so he can distract the rest and by making sure that Leo shows himself as a traitor Oz's team has an immediate lead to screw Salem over thereby giving her and SolarEquinox a chance to run. Grabbing the helmet felt silly, especially seeing the helmet when Raven was standing around. Rest of the scene was solid due to snark and Watts trying to figure out what everyone's game was.

    Emerald is probably going to hesitate on killing Ruby and the others. If that got her killed that'd be interesting but I don't think that's where they're going. Not sure if Mercury would be cheery because annoying coworker is dead or kind of pissed because he actually kind of liked her or it's poor form to have a coworker killed.

    The Menagerie scenes were kind of awful. The fight just wasn't interesting or well animated. The twin's weapons were...so boring. Same for how Sun blocked it by just twirling his staff without any feedback effect(no wind to the sides, no sparks, no pushback). Same for when Blake clonestopped the twins then they spent the next fifteen seconds casually talking while they could have finished off the enemy! Not even doing anything, just standing still and talking.

    That being said...the last shots with Illia was pretty damned good framing. I expect them to ruin it in the next episode but that was genuinely solid intro'ing.

    I liiiiked it, but comparing it to the oooold monty fights I'm shocked at how all of RWBY fight's kind of suck by comparison. That and the rest just isn't too great even if I like the show still.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    I'm just wondering where all the good choreography from the V5 teasers went.
     
    Reader mode
    You must login or register to reply here.
    Remove ads
    Back
    Top