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RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • Lots Jaune in focus shots, mostly what we saw in the trailer, everyone is laughing like a tone, but some fun stuff, Weiss is clearly embarrassed by her display at the party XD Also can summon boars now to scare people, amazing, I love it.

    Hey the arm was acknowledged and noted to not be a replacement for the real thing but something Yang will make good use of.

    Yay Ruby geeking out over weapons!

    Very fast paced, I like it, the meal lowering as time went on works well.

    Fun Nora.

    ROCKET FIST!

    Nick names throw backs.

    Disagree with Yang's claim gung ho thing, good Ruby acknowledged her thing.

    What is it with Ren and the insight bombs XD

    Qrow stop ruining their fun.

    Ooh Yang brings up the bird transformation thing, Qrow did not expect that.

    Jaune is salty, everyone is really weirded out by the bird thing, interesting.

    Yang is angry.

    So Ozpin was the wizard, really wants this to look good and also grants other magics.

    A lie by omission is still a lie Opzin.

    Also his power is waning and considers there to be no shame in abstaining from the fight only retreating.

    Yang is resolved to stick by Ruby because she trusts her judgement and wants no more lies or half truths.

    Wish Ruby was sitting with her team.

    So after resolving not hide anything, he doesn't speak and suggests closing the talk, his reasons are good but still.

    Nora has a point XD

    Mook guards are on guard, Cinder, Watts and her minions are back and at the camp and looking super cocky.
     
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    [Public] Volume 5, Chapter 7: Rest and Resolutions
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    • I... don't understand why Yang is so angry. Did I miss something? Like sure, perhaps Ozpin should've done better with checking Mom of the Year, but Qrow was definitely not a bad choice and it's not like Raven didn't fool a lot of other people.

    As for Oz's lies/omissions... well, let's take a look at those.
    "I'm a reincarnating wizard!"
    Well, either you tell everyone, getting mistaken for nuts and telling Salem who you are, or you tell everyone, they accept it, and then you don't have much of a break post-return. And also probably worshippers, because people do that and reincarnating wizard. (Also, Salem again.)

    "Magic is real!"
    Not terribly relevant for most people, and it would give megalomaniacs something to go after.

    "There are two deities, the Relics exist, and so do the Maidens!"
    They went over why this was kept secret in the show. Moving on.

    "Salem exists!"
    Prompt both panic over the fact that the Grimm are under someone's control and Salem gaining worshippers/followers. Because again, people. Also because we know she's willing to work with humans to achieve her goals.

    Not the best things to have widely known. By a small group of trusted people, sure, but... well, prior to the fall RWBY and JNPR were just random students. I mean yeah, he probably should've told Pyrrha, but... neither JNR nor RWBY had any way to know what she was getting into(random students), and Pyrrha took what was going on to her grave.

    For things more specific to RNJR:
    "I made the maidens!"
    Not... terribly relevant? Unless he was able to reclaim their power(see: Amber), it didn't really matter who made the maidens.

    "I'm a wizard!"
    Given the seemingly limited and declining nature of his magic... well. He probably should've told them, but I suppose I can see why he didn't. If this push against Salem fails and he moves on with significantly less magic, that's less he has to use against Salem in the future.

    "I gave Qrow and Raven the ability to morph into birds!"
    This... yeah. He should have told them this, given that it's info on one of the people they're likely to come up against in the future. That said... well, it isn't just his secret to tell. This one also falls on Qrow.
     
  • Threadmarks
    • CaesriusPolybius said:
    "I gave Qrow and Raven the ability to morph into birds!"
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    I'm honestly confused as to why this one gets such a "Oh my god how could you?!" reaction. Like...Okay? I mean. They can turn back and forth at will. They obviously still have free will because Raven went haring off to play robber baroness. It's not like he Lady Hawke'd them or something, I mean seriously. What's the issue?
     
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    gamebrain89 said:
    I'm honestly confused as to why this one gets such a "Oh my god how could you?!" reaction. Like...Okay? I mean. They can turn back and forth at will. They obviously still have free will because Raven went haring off to play robber baroness. It's not like he Lady Hawke'd them or something, I mean seriously. What's the issue?
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    There are a couple of jokes to be made here but the simple answer is probably the best one - everyone has a breaking point for stress. And everyone has a breaking point for different kinds of stress. When we hit those points humans tend to shout, yell, or storm off. The scene felt like the writers wanted to show someone hitting their breaking point for "putting up with someone being a secretive prick" and just fumbled it.
     
    Nicholai said:
    There are a couple of jokes to be made here but the simple answer is probably the best one - everyone has a breaking point for stress. And everyone has a breaking point for different kinds of stress. When we hit those points humans tend to shout, yell, or storm off. The scene felt like the writers wanted to show someone hitting their breaking point for "putting up with someone being a secretive prick" and just fumbled it.
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    I don't recall raven saying she consented to the act. That's probably the reason why yang was so angry. being able to turn back and forth to a bird is ok, but only if you're ok with it.

    Raven, of course, neglected to mention she was once OK with this procedure.
     
    Gears said:
    I don't recall raven saying she consented to the act. That's probably the reason why yang was so angry. being able to turn back and forth to a bird is ok, but only if you're ok with it.

    Raven, of course, neglected to mention she was once OK with this procedure.
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    Why would Yang assume she wasn't? It clearly hasn't effected her and doesn't seem painful. If anything Yang should be mad Ozpin didn't extend the offer as soon as Salem became an issue.
     
    CaesriusPolybius said:
    I... don't understand why Yang is so angry. Did I miss something? Like sure, perhaps Ozpin should've done better with checking Mom of the Year, but Qrow was definitely not a bad choice and it's not like Raven didn't fool a lot of other people.
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    Everyone had issues with the bird thing, most seemed shocked, horrified or disgusted and Yang was also angry they chose to hide that from them, indicating that Raven had a point that they are not being told all the info.

    As to your main points, I feel there's a lot of assumptions being made about the results of him telling the truth and that other issues with it tie into stuff like how Raven highlighted Ozpin have her team a lot of "leniency" and was clearly doing the same with RWBY, basically using them as unknowing participants in his war. Yes they'd have tried to fight the WF regardless, but if he's going to actively enable them, and recruit Ruby two years early before she even has decent CQC skills only Yang realized before the fall, then maybe they should have been inducted over sent in unaware.

    Gears said:
    I don't recall raven saying she consented to the act. That's probably the reason why yang was so angry. being able to turn back and forth to a bird is ok, but only if you're ok with it.

    Raven, of course, neglected to mention she was once OK with this procedure.
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    I feel this assumes that Qrow is, A, telling the truth, B, speaks for both of them, C, there aren't other consequences we don't know about, and D, that people who may well have been more students at the time (Who Ozpin constantly emphasized as children) were capable of giving informed consent on the matter.
     
    Also Yang has suffered the most physcially, she's lost an arm and (albeit hamhandedly) still has PTSD from the experience which has altered her personality some. I can see her having some resentment towards Ozpin. Kinda sad Blake wasn't brought up at all, she's still missing to everyone else.
     
    crazyfunster said:
    Also Yang has suffered the most physcially, she's lost an arm and (albeit hamhandedly) still has PTSD from the experience which has altered her personality some. I can see her having some resentment towards Ozpin. Kinda sad Blake wasn't brought up at all, she's still missing to everyone else.
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    I'm kind of confused, what's ham-handed about shaking after or during high stress/combat situations after experiencing massive trauma and having been shown to be facing night terrors and flashbacks?
     
    crazyfunster said:
    Also Yang has suffered the most physcially, she's lost an arm and (albeit hamhandedly) still has PTSD from the experience which has altered her personality some. I can see her having some resentment towards Ozpin. Kinda sad Blake wasn't brought up at all, she's still missing to everyone else.
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    Honestly I'm not surprised.
    About everyone is ultimately reaffirmed their commitment whites had to be pulled away

    Blake ran away she abandon her found family and that's proof that at the end of the day all the shared experiences didn't mean anything compared to whatever the hell she was personally dealing with. The idea that Ruby even needed to apologize to Yang seemed ridiculous. Yang actually rejected her help and Rose decided to go do something that she wanted in order to help deal with the situation at hand.
    Yes Blake had reasons but I don't think they were any better than being actually crippled reasons. Plush pretty much left a note and told people where she was doing and where she was headed. Not so for Blake. Unless they're going to retcon in the one letter that you can write while she was desperately fleeing on a boat to her parents. I hear those are...nevermind

    It took Sun actively going after her 4 weeks and her constant rejection in order to finally open up and decide to confront what's happened and what she needs to do. And while I got it was delivered RWBY at least could post a letter in order to keep Yang abreast of what the hell was happening and your head space and doing it. Lake hasn't even considered doing the same. And yeah she doesn't know to send it to Haven but I'm pretty sure that Ruby Rose has a public address
    I think this is the other problem with constantly framing her issues as trying to escape an evil exe like she's in some f****** Lifetime movie. She was a grown combatant and an adult. She made the same commitment to team and defense. She did not lose her arm protecting someone else.
    So if they've got a problem with taking her back or not at the very least wanting to speak in her defense when she's not there to speak up for herself well she hasn't earned that
    I find it funny as some have taken a bit of a personal offense at jaune taking pyhra and her loss as some sort of permanent thing upon himself.

    Then by all accounts that's what Blake was doing with regards to what happened with Beacon yang in the white Fang.
    But bLake is an attractive woman in Peril running from that modern ogre the evil abusive boyfriend. J a u n e is that annoying guy who starred in a bunch of Gary Stu fanfics and sounds like a harem protagonist. So any angst in his part is obviously misappropriated and turns Pyrrha Niko's into a woman in a refrigerator. Despite the fact that she died on her knees trying to fight The Impossible because she believes that she had to defend the world even though she knew she was going to lose. Not to mention her death activated Ruby's hidden power. Jaune is still on the slow path.

    Basically if we didn't already like Blake and she wasn't running a social script that practically said love and feel for me would we actually be all that eager to talk about how much she suffered when she's not in the room because she left us?
    .
     
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    Gears said:
    Honestly it's more based on raven being one giant dohchenozzle so far. If there were any major complications with the process she'd have whined about it even more.
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    'Whined'?

    Also, Raven had nothing to do with Chip the creeper bandit when Yang met him (as far as she knew), nor her fight with he and his little crew save technically being their boss.
     
    Zam said:
    'Whined'?

    Also, Raven had nothing to do with Chip the creeper bandit when Yang met him (as far as she knew), nor her fight with he and his little crew save technically being their boss.
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    Which wasn't what I was talking about anyhoo. Though as their boss, raven is the one in control of their behaviour. Or at least ultimately responsible.

    And yes, raven whines. She whines about how her daughter won't follow the advice of someone she's basically never met, she whines about how life was so unfair to her when she decided to go be a bandit once more, she whines about knowing better then anyone else...

    It doesn't even matter if she turns out to be right or not, she is infuriatingly out of touch with everything outside of her little camp and mindscape.
     
    Gears said:
    Which wasn't what I was talking about anyhoo. Though as their boss, raven is the one in control of their behaviour. Or at least ultimately responsible.

    And yes, raven whines. She whines about how her daughter won't follow the advice of someone she's basically never met, she whines about how life was so unfair to her when she decided to go be a bandit once more, she whines about knowing better then anyone else...

    It doesn't even matter if she turns out to be right or not, she is infuriatingly out of touch with everything outside of her little camp and mindscape.
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    Oh I thought you were saying Yang was whining, sorry may have been projecting based on a different post.

    Though as to Raven (Edit) & complications (Edit done), she was very much trying to tempt Yang, and Weiss I guess, into staying, (Edit) as I saw it. (End edit) Teasing them with just enough unknowns and hints while avoiding any real revelations to try and goad them/Yang into making a judgement call to stay and see just how deep the rabbit hole goes. Her only mistake was trying to make Yang choose between that and Ruby and probably misjudging how much she meant to Yang after being a none entity, Yang might want catharsis or a revelation on some level, but not at the expense of someone she actually knows and loves.
     
    Honestly I'm confused because I don't really see any indication that Oz forced that upon them and there's been no indication that it sucks being able to change into a bird. Like...did Ozpin force this on them? Did they immediately get turned and had to figure out how to turn back? Like he manipulated Pyrrah but there's nothing here that says he did anything other then give them the (pretty cool) ability to turn into an avian at will.

    My theory from before was that Raven and Crow were quite literal birds who were turned into people, hence why they have bird names and were raised in the wild and why Raven resented Oz(being literally made to be his agents).
     
    Dream Logic said:
    Honestly I'm confused because I don't really see any indication that Oz forced that upon them and there's been no indication that it sucks being able to change into a bird. Like...did Ozpin force this on them? Did they immediately get turned and had to figure out how to turn back? Like he manipulated Pyrrah but there's nothing here that says he did anything other then give them the (pretty cool) ability to turn into an avian at will.

    My theory from before was that Raven and Crow were quite literal birds who were turned into people, hence why they have bird names and were raised in the wild and why Raven resented Oz(being literally made to be his agents).
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    There's a lot of theories about this, though one poster on SB made the insightful point that Qrow and Raven were likely students as t the time and Qrow' hasty, angry defense of Ozpin included insisting "We wanted this" and how the last time they heard that defense it was from a character too young to know better and who regretted what happened later.

    Given they were raised by bandits and sent to Beacon I find that unlikely myself.
     
    Darmani said:
    Honestly I'm not surprised.
    About everyone is ultimately reaffirmed their commitment whites had to be pulled away

    Blake ran away she abandon her found family and that's proof that at the end of the day all the shared experiences didn't mean anything compared to whatever the hell she was personally dealing with. The idea that Ruby even needed to apologize to Yang seemed ridiculous. Yang actually rejected her help and Rose decided to go do something that she wanted in order to help deal with the situation at hand.
    Yes Blake had reasons but I don't think they were any better than being actually crippled reasons. Plush pretty much left a note and told people where she was doing and where she was headed. Not so for Blake. Unless they're going to retcon in the one letter that you can write while she was desperately fleeing on a boat to her parents. I hear those are...nevermind

    It took Sun actively going after her 4 weeks and her constant rejection in order to finally open up and decide to confront what's happened and what she needs to do. And while I got it was delivered RWBY at least could post a letter in order to keep Yang abreast of what the hell was happening and your head space and doing it. Lake hasn't even considered doing the same. And yeah she doesn't know to send it to Haven but I'm pretty sure that Ruby Rose has a public address
    I think this is the other problem with constantly framing her issues as trying to escape an evil exe like she's in some f****** Lifetime movie. She was a grown combatant and an adult. She made the same commitment to team and defense. She did not lose her arm protecting someone else.
    So if they've got a problem with taking her back or not at the very least wanting to speak in her defense when she's not there to speak up for herself well she hasn't earned that
    I find it funny as some have taken a bit of a personal offense at jaune taking pyhra and her loss as some sort of permanent thing upon himself.

    Then by all accounts that's what Blake was doing with regards to what happened with Beacon yang in the white Fang.
    But bLake is an attractive woman in Peril running from that modern ogre the evil abusive boyfriend. J a u n e is that annoying guy who starred in a bunch of Gary Stu fanfics and sounds like a harem protagonist. So any angst in his part is obviously misappropriated and turns Pyrrha Niko's into a woman in a refrigerator. Despite the fact that she died on her knees trying to fight The Impossible because she believes that she had to defend the world even though she knew she was going to lose. Not to mention her death activated Ruby's hidden power. Jaune is still on the slow path.

    Basically if we didn't already like Blake and she wasn't running a social script that practically said love and feel for me would we actually be all that eager to talk about how much she suffered when she's not in the room because she left us?
    .
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    Were you drunk when you wrote this? It's basically impossible to read what you've written here.
     
    CaesriusPolybius said:
    "Salem exists!"
    Prompt both panic over the fact that the Grimm are under someone's control and Salem gaining worshippers/followers. Because again, people. Also because we know she's willing to work with humans to achieve her goals.

    Not the best things to have widely known. By a small group of trusted people, sure, but... well, prior to the fall RWBY and JNPR were just random students. I mean yeah, he probably should've told Pyrrha, but... neither JNR nor RWBY had any way to know what she was getting into(random students), and Pyrrha took what was going on to her grave.

    "I gave Qrow and Raven the ability to morph into birds!"
    This... yeah. He should have told them this, given that it's info on one of the people they're likely to come up against in the future. That said... well, it isn't just his secret to tell. This one also falls on Qrow.
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    There is an even worst case scenario with revealing that Salem exists, witch hunts, now everyone that is not happy with the status quo can be painted as a Salem plant.

    As for the Bird thing, that is Qrow's cover, the less people that know that he can do that the safer he is.
    Dream Logic said:
    Honestly I'm confused because I don't really see any indication that Oz forced that upon them and there's been no indication that it sucks being able to change into a bird. Like...did Ozpin force this on them? Did they immediately get turned and had to figure out how to turn back? Like he manipulated Pyrrah but there's nothing here that says he did anything other then give them the (pretty cool) ability to turn into an avian at will.

    My theory from before was that Raven and Crow were quite literal birds who were turned into people, hence why they have bird names and were raised in the wild and why Raven resented Oz(being literally made to be his agents).
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    Raven word it so that it sounded like it was involuntary.
    But then again Raven whole schtick is that she doesn't want to pay the bill, she wants food but doesn't want to pay the farmers so she raids them, she wants a daughter but doesn't want to rise a baby, so she abandons her and then try to get her as an adult, she wants power but not the responsibility.
     
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