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RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • In short we have 2 characters in the show say the goal is destruction, then we something elsewhere (can't remember if it was a book of Amity Arena) that says her goal is to rule the world.
    Both of these end goals do align with what we have seen of Salem do in the series ever since first reuniting with Oz.
    It's either Burn It All or Rule It All.
    We have not been given much reason to view any other alternative if there even is one.

    I mean, given all the info we have what other reason would Salem have?
    "To keep the relics from Oz so he can't use them." That doesn't even present a third option, as this goal can easily slide into either of the 2 currently presented plausible end goals.
     
    I feel like people keep taking "I don't know if I trust we know her goal yet" as some kind of "I know explicitly what her real goal is!" which its not.

    I just think there's something suspect about the handling so far and we may find out more as time goes on, maybe Ozma and Tyrian are right, but I am unsure.

    That's all there is too it.
     
    Alternatively

    Salem: I won these relics in the divorce Ozma, and I'm going to collect you debt collector dodging bastard. No I don't accept you dying means the debt is repaid!
     
    This may be me being paranoid, but they had a perfect opportunity to establish Salem's motives in an ironclad way, but they didn't take it. When Hazel is standing in front of Jinn, and does't ask her a question, despite him questioning if Salem is being honest about her plans. Instead he kinda awkwardly decides that Jinn showing up means that everything Oscar told him is true. My read is that they were going to have Jinn condirm that Oz was right there, but balked at the last minute to leave room for a twist about what Salem really wants.

    It's not like they had other major plans for the last question, there were other ways to get the villians to rainbow road. And frankly, Salem doesn't really come off as someone who is so exhausted with existence that she's looking for ways to circumvent her immortality. She's enjoying the carnage too much.
     
    Pugman said:
    In short we have 2 characters in the show say the goal is destruction, then we something elsewhere (can't remember if it was a book of Amity Arena) that says her goal is to rule the world.
    Both of these end goals do align with what we have seen of Salem do in the series ever since first reuniting with Oz.
    It's either Burn It All or Rule It All.
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    I'd argue who behavior is not what one would expect from someone who wants to rule or destroy the world, at least not as a primary goal.

    If her goal was to rule the world, I would expect her to be more focused on ruling and/or building things, rather than almost exclusively relying on a small cadre of covert operatives. Things like starting settlements beyond the kingdoms, that she can subtly support by thinning out the local grim population; building industries in the Grim Lands; building her own megacorps and mining the dust everyone depends on. There's no indication she does any of those things.

    Conversely, if she truly wanted to destroy humanity, I'd expect her to be much more active in her use of the Grim, interdicting trade lanes and massing larger hordes to overwhelm kingdom defenses, rather than mostly leaving them to mill about on their own.

    Pugman said:
    I mean, given all the info we have what other reason would Salem have?
    "To keep the relics from Oz so he can't use them." That doesn't even present a third option, as this goal can easily slide into either of the 2 currently presented plausible end goals.
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    1. Keep Oz from using them may be compatible with other goals, but it's also a sufficient goal on its own. Just because it could slide into one of the others does not mean it needs to.
    2. Carrying through on Oz's original plan to unite humanity, to spite him for getting cold feet and betraying her, is similar to wanting to take over the world, but subtly different in that she doesn't actually care about taking over and thus could more easily be convinced to take a different course.
    3. Dealing with/running from some other threat, which could explain why she's suddenly become MUCH more active than she has been at for literally thousands of years.
    4. Generally, and reflexively, opposing Oz, in much the same way he opposes her, based on the assumption that his activities are ultimately meant to be, or lead to, an attack on her.

    mr_stibbons said:
    And frankly, Salem doesn't really come off as someone who is so exhausted with existence that she's looking for ways to circumvent her immortality. She's enjoying the carnage too much.
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    I'm going to have to disagree with that part. We were shown Salem trying to kill herself multiple times, culminating in throwing herself into the Grim pool. It also seemed like the curse inflicted by the second pool is rather painful, which probably hasn't improved her opinion on immortality. I think what's more likely is that she's given up on death, but would happily take the option if it actually presented itself.
     
    mr_stibbons said:
    This may be me being paranoid, but they had a perfect opportunity to establish Salem's motives in an ironclad way, but they didn't take it. When Hazel is standing in front of Jinn, and does't ask her a question, despite him questioning if Salem is being honest about her plans. Instead he kinda awkwardly decides that Jinn showing up means that everything Oscar told him is true. My read is that they were going to have Jinn condirm that Oz was right there, but balked at the last minute to leave room for a twist about what Salem really wants.

    It's not like they had other major plans for the last question, there were other ways to get the villians to rainbow road. And frankly, Salem doesn't really come off as someone who is so exhausted with existence that she's looking for ways to circumvent her immortality. She's enjoying the carnage too much.
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    Then again calling the gods in to wipe out humanity could be a way to say "fuck you" to Oz and Light.
     
    Epsilon Rose said:
    I'm going to have to disagree with that part. We were shown Salem trying to kill herself multiple times, culminating in throwing herself into the Grim pool. It also seemed like the curse inflicted by the second pool is rather painful, which probably hasn't improved her opinion on immortality. I think what's more likely is that she's given up on death, but would happily take the option if it actually presented itself.
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    That was an untold amount of time ago though. Salem in the modern day does not seem to be facing the same problems.
     
    Epsilon Rose said:
    Not really? "Proving" to the God of Light that he was right about humanity isn't really an FU to him and it's an actively worse FU to Oz than forcing him to live with his failure.
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    Pretty sure Light would prefer people and things living, as he was the one making the things that Dark kept wrecking.
    If he didn't care about things then why set up Oz?
     
    Pugman said:
    Pretty sure Light would prefer people and things living, as he was the one making the things that Dark kept wrecking.
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    If I recall correctly, humanity was a joint venture.

    Pugman said:
    If he didn't care about things then why set up Oz?
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    Any number of reasons; we don't actually know much about the character. Off the top of my head, any of the following would make sense:

    • Curiosity about how Humanity 2.0 turned out.
    • Something related to whatever caused humanity to come back and/or the creation of faunus.
    • An argument with his brother (who Salem also has reason to spite).
    • A lingering feeling of obligation to humanity (which can be discharged by either fully determining they're unworthy or coming back).
    • He's looking for a distraction from whatever they're currently doing.
     
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    Matrix Dragon said:
    Yeah, I'm seeing a VERY mixed response to his involvement.
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    There's also the fact that the lead chara designer is Huke, who was behind the designs of Stein;Gates and Black Rock Shooter, so yeah that gonna be fucking wild.

    Now the fact that the anime's poster depicts the girls in their Beacon arc outfit with the teaser image of general Weiss makes me think that if this is indeed an AU, then the POD will be tha after the fall of Beacon, Weiss took on Ironwood's offer to join Atlas academy, and then joined the Altesian army after graduating, with means that the rest of team RWBY only met her again when they arrived at Atlas in the anime's equivalent of season 7. That's if the butterfly effects of her absence still let the team reach Atlas.

    For all we know, Weiss' absence from the team led to everything going to hell, maybe one or several of the heroes die along the way, making Weiss go into full dark side? (I mean, this is Urobuchi we're talking about, everything is possible)
     
    Okay so vague thoughts.

    The impression I get from titles is that Urobuchi's role is fairly small, like did early work but it's kind of mostly there to add his name to the project, I think. Black Rock Shooter guy doing Character design sounds like something out of a fan "Who would you get to make a Japanese production RWBY anime". Other than that, not entirely familiar with Shaft work besides Fate/Zero and Madoka. I know they can be weird apparently. Thought another animation team was involved was that wrong or did I mishear? Between this and Bandai Namco, it's not as though the biggest names in the industry are involved but these are big names or at least names casual people have heard of. Which furthers shows how utterly nonsense the "This is somehow proof RWBY is dead" crowd is.

    The name, which personally I'm not thrilled on but I can easily see myself growing used to, does basically seem to be outright saying that this is not an "RWBY: What If?" anthology but a specific AU of some kind. It is interesting that two bits of Art we have give me wildly different impressions. The first art as Weiss, seemingly different handed then in canon, in an outfit very unlike her, surrounded by unfamiliar robots and a change to the Schnee family crest that all combined suggest a fairly massive AU. While this poster shows Volume 1-3 RWBY, which means it might be a divergences that happens within the show's timeline. Personally I suspect this new art could just be a general "Look it's a RWBY project" art, particularly since I heard that the change away from the school setting was way more unpopular in Japan then it was in America.
     
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    Teen Spirit said:
    The doom people are being really silly about this. You don't invest money into a spin off unless the franchise itself is doing quite well, and you really don't invest in a spin-off if the series is dying.
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    I think the disconnect is some people see this as a spinoff and others see it as a disguised reboot. A reboot is what would be happening for a series that was quite successful but has dropped off recently. We don't really know which side is right at this point.
     
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