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RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • Xalgeon said:
    Oi! Excuse us for not having badass criminals like Japan! :rolleyes: :V
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    Actually, now that I think about it, these guys aren't sophisticated enough villains to have the RP British accent. As generic mobsters, they should have a Brooklyn or New Jersey accent.

    Mook said:
    Why they have so much weapons in the first place tho?
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    Well, apparently a 15 year old girl can just stroll around town with an anti-materiel rifle....
     
    The Narrator said:
    Well, apparently a 15 year old girl can just stroll around town with an anti-materiel rifle....
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    Because she lives on a island outside the city and goes to combat school. In other words she can reasonably except to encounter Grimm on a regular basis both because there are Grimm where she lives and because she fights Grimm as part of her training to get a career as a monster hunter. There's no reason a club in the middle of the city would need dozens of people armed with axes, swords, pistols, machine guns and a godamn bazooka if there's nothing shady going on.
     
    Mook said:
    Because she lives on a island outside the city and goes to combat school. In other words she can reasonably except to encounter Grimm on a regular basis both because there are Grimm where she lives and because she fights Grimm as part of her training to get a career as a monster hunter. There's no reason a club in the middle of the city would need dozens of people armed with axes, swords, pistols, machine guns and a godamn bazooka if there's nothing shady going on.
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    Plus, well, Huntress in training, at least at a Combat School level, so she presumably went through whatever legal process may or may not be required to have a weapon, not sure we can say the same for the shady club run by a gangster info broker.
     
    The Narrator said:
    There's guys in matching suits and sunglasses and openly wielding hatchets in a public place. That's basically a cross of generic mafia button man and the Axe Gang from Kung Fu Hustle. These guys are so blatantly coded as organized crime enforcers that you'd have to be completely unfamiliar with film or television as a medium to not recognize it. Not immediately realizing that these were bad guys would be like being surprised that the character played by Jason Isaacs is a villain.

    You can argue that Yang escalated a situation into a fight when it wasn't necessary, but you can't claim that we're not given any reason to think that these are bad guys. They're coded that way pretty much every way possible short of giving them goatees and British accents.
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    This is what gets me. There is no possible way that anybody who has seen any comic books, cop shows, or action thrillers could have mistaken Junior and his men for anything other than organized crime. If they hadn't been, it would have been a shocking subversion of the trope, and honestly, RWBY never shockingly subverts tropes. Plot twists within tropes, sure, but it never tries to be anything other than "Final Fantasy: The Western Animation."

    As for enjoying the fight, so what? Lots of heroic characters enjoy the thrill of combat. 90% of martial-arts movie heroes are dudes walking the earth in search of a stronger battle. Are professional football players sociopathic monsters because they enjoy the thrill of competition in which they slam their opponents into the ground? How about professional boxers and MMA fighters, who make their living in literal hand-to-hand combat?

    Do you disagree with the morality of vigilante justice or the social messaging that it's OK for a character to walk into a mafia bar and beat goons up for information in unprovoked fashion? Fine! Perfectly valid! Then criticize that. Don't pretend that a literary trope with hundreds of years of history that is also widely accepted by the majority of society (see: the popularity of comic books and blockbuster thriller movies) can be mapped 1:1 to real life.
     
    Vindictus said:
    Nobody actually countered my arguments; they just said that the examples I used didn't count, refused to explain why they didn't count, and then pretended they had won.

    Meanwhile, people run over into the let's read every other day, accuse Leila of deliberately misrepresenting details from the show and say shit like 'the weight of canon is on my side' and then run away back here like little whiny babies when people ask for any examples of what was misrepresented or for evidence of canonical support.

    EDIT: Like, open challenge. Go into the lets read, and read it through, and then tell us what precisely is mis-represented or flanderized in Leila's presentation of RWBY, instead of just sitting back far far away from where the actual criticism is happening and wringing your hands because someone said mean things about your waifu.
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    That thread is currently 239 pages long.
    Just quote the points you think are relevant, rather than expecting people to try and read through the whole thing.
     
    Honestly, I wish I didn't suck at debating too much to carry my point across.

    What I was trying to say the other day was that you are totally entitled to your immediate opinions when watching something, but don't try to pass those opinions as anything else if you're not willing to step back and take things in context.
     
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    RWBY Chibi episode 3
    Really loved this one save the flirting comment, though I think Ozpin is just wrong in this case.

    Yang's speech was lovely and the pay off hilarious, and Qrow being a dick and Winter attacking him and it ending in a brawl is great, also solid voice work from all involved.
     
    I love that Winter has romance novels as her guilty pleasure. And that Qrow has romance novels as his quite proud pleasure. :lol
     
    Ok. So I think I found something kind of weird about the yellow trailer, or rather my reaction to it.

    I don't mind Yang savagely beating nooks half to death, I don't mind her starting a fight, I find her offering a kiss ten sucker punching junior chuckle worthy.

    But there's something about grabbing him by the balls that...irks me. I think it's because it violates genre conventions where punch and kicking is completely ok. Because it exists far enough from the standard expectation that I don't automatically roll with it.

    But a grab that keeps going? That drags it out and makes it seem worse even if the amount of relative pain is lesser and makes it seem almost sadistic. I don't think any of that was intentional but it's me working backwards for why I don't mind the thought of him being punched in the balls(and sent flying even) vs her grabbing his balls and squeezing.
     
    Dream Logic said:
    Ok. So I think I found something kind of weird about the yellow trailer, or rather my reaction to it.

    I don't mind Yang savagely beating nooks half to death, I don't mind her starting a fight, I find her offering a kiss ten sucker punching junior chuckle worthy.
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    I can't help but find this off-putting.

    The trailer doesn't offer sufficient justification for Yang's actions. Why does she need to hurt these bouncers so badly? Why does she start the fight? Why offer Junior a kiss? Why is that funny?

    Sure you could argue that those guys were criminals but we haven't seen them do anything worthy of a such a brutal beatdown. At best, we know that some of them aid other criminals in jobs be it robbery to attempted assault. But that's it. Why does being a criminal instantly make you someone else's punching bag?

    On top of that, Yang got what she wanted. There's no need to start a fight when she could have just left.
     
    Uncle said:
    I can't help but find this off-putting.

    The trailer doesn't offer sufficient justification for Yang's actions. Why does she need to hurt these bouncers so badly? Why does she start the fight? Why offer Junior a kiss? Why is that funny?

    Sure you could argue that those guys were criminals but we haven't seen them do anything worthy of a such a brutal beatdown. At best, we know that some of them aid other criminals in jobs be it robbery to attempted assault. But that's it. Why does being a criminal instantly make you someone else's punching bag?

    On top of that, Yang got what she wanted. There's no need to start a fight when she could have just left.
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    As has been noted, multiple times, everything about the place was built up and framed as a criminal enterprise, also Junior just threatened Yang and she was surrounded by armed criminals, taking out their boss via sucker punch is pragmatic.

    Also the Black trailer didn't justify Blake breaking onto a train.
     
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    Uncle said:
    The trailer doesn't offer sufficient justification for Yang's actions. Why does she need to hurt these bouncers so badly? Why does she start the fight? Why offer Junior a kiss? Why is that funny?
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    Sure it does. It's an action cartoon so a fight has to happen at some point. Relax, stop thinking so hard about this. RWBY isn't a deep reflection on the use of force by the powerful as a tool to achieve one's ends. It's a fucking cartoon about superpowered teenagers fighting monsters.
     
    "don't think about what you like or you might notice its flaws"

    The most compelling and honest way to interact with fiction yet conceived by man?

    Quite possibly!
     
    Regardless of what real-world arguments one might make regarding vigilantism and whether use of force is justified, "gangsters are for punching" is a basic genre convention of any superhero story. And as previously noted, these guys are visually coded as gangsters in pretty much every way possible.

    When you put a protagonist and a bunch of bad guys in the same place in an action movie, there's going to be a fight.
     
    Zam said:
    Ass has been noted, multiple times, everything about the place was built up and framed as a criminal enterprise, also Junior just threatened Yang and she was surrounded by armed criminals, taking out their boss via sucker punch is pragmatic.

    Also the Black trailer didn't justify Blake breaking onto a train.
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    You mean the threat he made after she assaulted him? With the criminals who came in defense of their boss?
    VolantRedX said:
    Sure it does. It's an action cartoon so a fight has to happen at some point. Relax, stop thinking so hard about this. RWBY isn't a deep reflection on the use of force by the powerful as a tool to achieve one's ends. It's a fucking cartoon about superpowered teenagers fighting monsters.
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    It's a show that attempts that to tackle the issue of raicism and implied slavery. And as far as I've seen, has done so poorly.

    So forgive me for thinking this show was about more than fighting monsters.
     
    Uncle said:
    You mean the threat he made after she assaulted him? With the criminals who came in defense of their boss?
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    So you advocate the Penguin trying to murder Batman cos Batman was assaulting his guests, cos legally the Penguin has the right to open fire on Batman. Seriously, he's a gangster who wanted to mack on a girl he acknowledged as under age, he got smacked down and so did his gang, it is typical for the genre.
     
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