RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

kokuenDG · May 1, 2022

so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.

SpeckofStardust · Apr 27, 2018

Zam said:
He back-stabbed Ozpin, stole his job, hid Penny and is now adopting a "Screw you got mine" attitude to world politic which is basically the same as Raven's just minus the banditry, but extra on the oppression.

We don't know why Spring left, the best we got was some Leo and Raven stuff which implied pressure and fear but the specifics still aren't elaborated on and it doesn't exactly give a good view of Ozpin's secret cabal if that's how one of their Maidens turns out.

Leo can claim what he wants, that doesn't make him right, and as noted, Raven has many reasons, not all of which she has shared.

We are told this by Ozpin, but he is also the only one besides Salem who 'can' tell us this, he could say Salem erased them from everyone's memories and we wouldn't know it isn't the truth.

Your starting to invent stuff to explain why he's a bad man, Like he outright stated he hid the maidens as best he could, (He also stated he has fucked up more then anyone else) in a manner like how America hid the development of nukes until we no longer needed to, none of this points to him secretly being a evil person, now he likely has done bad things in the past but I highly doubt he intends/intended to make the world a worse place. Is he perfect?, no. But he's a person which means he has flaws just like everyone does.

Zam · Apr 27, 2018

Q99 said:
There could be areas of the mythological stuff Oz is lying about, but I don't think there's enough evidence pointing in that direction. I think he's saying most of it at least to the best of his knowledge- which isn't necessarily flawless.

And that is a fair take, it is just not one I share, as I don't really trust him.

SpeckofStardust said:
Your starting to invent stuff to explain why he's a bad man, Like he outright stated he hid the maidens as best he could, (He also stated he has fucked up more then anyone else) in a manner like how America hid the development of nukes until we no longer needed to, none of this points to him secretly being a evil person, now he likely has done bad things in the past but I highly doubt he intends/intended to make the world a worse place. Is he perfect?, no. But he's a person which means he has flaws just like everyone does.

When did I invent something? I pointed out that Ozpin is the only one who actually knows what went down X number of generations ago and can functionally claim whatever he wants and we wouldn't know the difference. I'm not saying he did, but I am saying that the argument feels very much like it boils down to "His decision was right, because of information only he has access to and claims only he has made based on what is currently unverifiable info".

Why does everyone jump to evil? When did I say evil or he plans to make the world a worse place?

SpeckofStardust · Apr 27, 2018

Zam said:
And that is a fair take, it is just not one I share, as I don't really trust him.

When did I invent something? I pointed out that Ozpin is the only one who actually knows what went down X number of generations ago and can functionally claim whatever he wants and we wouldn't know the difference. I'm not saying he did, but I am saying that the argument feels very much like it boils down to "His decision was right, because of information only he has access to and claims only he has made based on what is currently unverifiable info".

Why does everyone jump to evil? When did I say evil or he plans to make the world a worse place?

Because.

Zam said:
He took over Oscar by force in the fight.

Keep in mind, Ozpin claimed this, he hasn't offered any proof and based on the World of Remnant thanks to his skill in Aura he's apparently more than human, which could explain his reincarnation without any so far unseen divine entities.

Sorry for breaking up your post like this, I didn't want to discuss the whole subject and to just note these specific points, however if I have accidentally missed or taken these lines out of context, then I apologize.

Zam said:
Possible, but that could also be because he spent most of that fight running from or getting wailed on by Hazel. Plus he can access whatever of Oscar's memories he wants but Oscar doesn't seem to have the same freedom.

Wouldn't covering up the Maidens count as a lie? Plus who is confirming it is an important question I feel.

Possible, but he may have been using the gods stories for a long time and it is thus woven into the history of his cabal and so breaking from that story may not be possible.

Zam said:
Because people 'did' know of the Maidens, then Ozpin removed them from public record, hiding them in secrecy and convincing people they did not exist.

Yang's actions are as irrelevant as Blake hiding her Faunus nature is to Ozpin's machinations, they have nothing to do with his own actions before and after meeting the cast, his interactions with Oscar, ETC. We are discussing, Ozpin exclusively here, saying "Another character also lied at one point" doesn't change anything.

Honestly this level of debate is kind of what I wanted to avoid, because at this point I think its a case of, you trust Ozpin or you don't and changing minds is not liable to happen, because those who do and don't look at this scenes in an entirely different light which doesn't translate well to the other.

He had to erase them and convince people they weren't real, they didn't fade away by accident. Also a lie by omission is still a lie.

I don't really see what is elaborate about noting

"The show keeps hinting this guy is not on the level to outright saying it, his story doesn't seem to add up and the world building outright says there is something unique about him specifically"

All the people who agree with Ozpin are Ozpin loyalists, we haven't seen Salem or Cinder make comments about gods, its always Ozpin or one of his loyal servants confirming his stories who themselves joined the conspiracy later, well after everything has been set up and has tons of its own issues given how many members don't trust Opzin or turn traitor, or run away, Spring Maiden included.

You are trying to craft a tale where Ozpin is lying about his motivations and reasoning's for why he's done most of what he's done, despite the fact that as you pointed out he's one of the only 2 possible sources of information and none of the information that Opzin has stated has yet been contradicted by the other source Salem.
The only reason where that would make sense is if he has ulterior motives, which considering his goal is ultimately to beat Salem so that he can die (which you might have missed if you failed to read between the lines) which leads to the believe that he is in fact :turian:

clearly

up to no good and that people who believe him are fools. The worse Salem has accused of him is leading people to believe their is hope which causes them to die. Which can still be true if everything we've seen him say is true.

Zam · Apr 27, 2018

SpeckofStardust said:
Because.

You are trying to craft a tale where Ozpin is lying about his motivations and reasoning's for why he's done most of what he's done, despite the fact that as you pointed out he's one of the only 2 possible sources of information and none of the information that Opzin has stated has yet been contradicted by the other source Salem.
The only reason where that would make sense is if he has ulterior motives, which considering his goal is ultimately to beat Salem so that he can die (which you might have missed if you failed to read between the lines) which leads to the believe that he is in fact clearly up to no good and that people who believe him are fools. The worse Salem has accused of him is leading people to believe their is hope which causes them to die. Which can still be true if everything we've seen him say is true.

Craft a tale? I pointed out inconsistencies in his story and how he is a questionable info source/boss, nothing more.

The "which you might have missed if you failed to read between the lines" is rude and unnecessary.

SpeckofStardust · Apr 27, 2018

Zam said:
I pointed out inconsistencies in his story and how he is a questionable info source/boss, nothing more.

What inconsistencies, you have pointed out were he could have lied, you have not pointed out in show evidence that contradicts relative truthfulness. Now has he told everything? No most likely not, he is old and has likely countless tells of where he's fucked up but at the moment most of it is pointless information to the current situation, and he has shown a willingness to explain when asked.

Zam · Apr 27, 2018

SpeckofStardust said:
What inconsistencies, you have pointed out were he could have lied, you have not pointed out in show evidence that contradicts relative truthfulness. Now has he told everything? No most likely not, he is old and has likely countless tells of where he's fucked up but at the moment most of it is pointless information to the current situation, and he has shown a willingness to explain when asked.

Like the whole "Needs Oscar's consent" thing.

Plus, as noted, a lie by omission is still a lie, and we know he had no intention of revealing Raven or Qrow's magic to anyone until Yang forced his hand.

Oh and how Salem, when doing a World of Remnant, zeroed in on Ozpin's silhouette and emphasized how Aura can make someone more than 'human', as part of a potential theory for his unique abilities and how they don't need to be tied to gods.

and on:

SpeckofStardust said:
you have not pointed out in show evidence that contradicts relative truthfulness.

Ignoring that I feel I did, the fact of the matter is that was not my goal, this debate has spiraled well outside of control, but my general point is "Because Ozpin said so" or "because one of Ozpin's minions said so" is not some iron clad counter given we have no idea how reliable of a narrator he is.

Seriously, what are you aiming for here? Why jump in? What are you personally trying to prove?

Because at this point, everyone seems to have something to say but I am not exactly clear on the overall message or idea at play here for those who seem opposed to the "I find Ozpin questionable and not trustworthy" side of things.

Mook · Apr 27, 2018

Hm, just had a thought on Jaune's transcripts and where he could have gotten them. I wonder if maybe one of his sisters did have what it took to apply to Beacon but didn't actually want to be a Huntress. She could have expressed her desire to be a farmer or something to Jaune in private, or announced it to her family. Either way the result is that there's a very promising looking application form for Beacon just sitting around not being used, all it needs is a new photo and moving some letters around in the name and gender fields and whoila, Jaune got his hands on some transcripts that asserts that he is the baddest dude to ever apply to Beacon.

Tython82 · Apr 27, 2018

Zam said:
Oh and how Salem, when doing a World of Remnant, zeroed in on Ozpin's silhouette and emphasized how Aura can make someone more than 'human', as part of a potential theory for his unique abilities and how they don't need to be tied to gods.

So here is an interesting question but how long has Aura/Semblences been in use?

Because it is possible that what Salem is referring to is that before say Ozpin discovered aura and how to harness it people on Remnant were likely just ordinary humans without any semblences, aura shields etc.

After all if this power is so common place how come all humans don't have it unlocked from birth???

In short the current humans on remnant who can use Aura are far more then human from a certain point of view.

Mook · Apr 27, 2018

Tython82 said:
After all if this power is so common place how come all humans don't have it unlocked from birth???

Why would they have it unlocked from birth?

Tython82 · Apr 27, 2018

Mook said:
Why would they have it unlocked from birth?

Basically I am going X-Men here and saying that Aura/Semblence is something people should be born with instead of needing to be unlocked if we are to assume that Salems "More then Human" speach is refering to Ozpin specifically and not just humans in general.

Zam · Apr 27, 2018

Mook said:
Hm, just had a thought on Jaune's transcripts and where he could have gotten them. I wonder if maybe one of his sisters did have what it took to apply to Beacon but didn't actually want to be a Huntress. She could have expressed her desire to be a farmer or something to Jaune in private, or announced it to her family. Either way the result is that there's a very promising looking application form for Beacon just sitting around not being used, all it needs is a new photo and moving some letters around in the name and gender fields and whoila, Jaune got his hands on some transcripts that asserts that he is the baddest dude to ever apply to Beacon.

It would certainly be the best explanation available given both Jaune's established skills or lack there of in such matter and his phrasing.

Tython82 said:
So here is an interesting question but how long has Aura/Semblences been in use?

Because it is possible that what Salem is referring to is that before say Ozpin discovered aura and how to harness it people on Remnant were likely just ordinary humans without any semblences, aura shields etc.

After all if this power is so common place how come all humans don't have it unlocked from birth???

In short the current humans on remnant who can use Aura are far more then human from a certain point of view.

It hasn't been established as far as I am aware, the idea is interesting but I feel unlikely myself as I don't think discovering Aura would be the same thing as becoming more than 'human/a man' with it, or more, that would be a distinct thing so I am unsure it would match and thus be what she was specifically talking about.

I tend to assume forced awakening is risky and dangerous but have no idea if that is supported anywhere save that everyone doesn't have an awakened Aura.

Leingod · Apr 27, 2018

Tython82 said:
Basically I am going X-Men here and saying that Aura/Semblence is something people should be born with instead of needing to be unlocked if we are to assume that Salems "More then Human" speach is refering to Ozpin specifically and not just humans in general.

Except that Salem said that becoming "something more than human" requires mastery of Aura and Semblance, not that just unlocking Aura is enough to qualify as something other than human. And the fact that the only example given was Ozpin, who has had literal centuries if not millennia of accumulated experience with Aura through his various reincarnations, means that the X-Men argument doesn't really fit, because there are maybe enough such people to count on the hands, at best.

Mook · Apr 27, 2018

A recent Nomad of Nowhere episode has me hopeful that an old theory of mine will come through. Back in ye olde days of Volume 4 when Blake stated that the wildlife, not Grimm but wildlife in Menagerie was the reason that the Faunus couldn't expand into the desert I had a theory that perhaps there was a ton of Dust there that the local wildlife had eaten/absorbed into themselves and learned to harness, basically turning the animals there into masters of the elements and also possibly being very hostile. Seeing the way Hazel injects Dust into himself and how roided out that makes him I could easily see wildlife that has adapted itself to constantly having Dust sticking out of it would both be extremely powerful and hyper-hostile/violent.

Granted I imagined it more as being worms of some kind (ala Dune) but as the Nomad shows you can stick elemental crystals into basically any animal and make it look cool. Giving the animals both Aura, Dust-injected powers and extreme aggression would also explain why they're a bigger problem than Grimm.

Edit:
Another advantage to hyper Dust animals in Menagerie is that it could be used to combine the "Faunus lives matter!" plotline with the "down with the abusive corporations and economic inequality" plotlines from Atlas. Weiss needs a way to stop the Schnee Dust Company and restore the name of her family, one way to do that could be to start up her own Dust company in Menagerie and offer jobs to all the disenfranchised people of Mantle. Having their own highly profitable Dust mine could be used to expand Menagerie and give it more sway at the international stage, while the new source of Dust could be used to undercut the SDC monopoly and give people better options. And with how much the Faunus hate the SDC you also have a inbuilt explanation for why they never cooperated with the SDC to set up Dust mines earlier.

Mook · May 8, 2018

Another Kickstarter Update:

Greetings everyone!
First of all - we've got some incredible news. We are just about two weeks out from going to print for RWBY: Combat Ready and all expansion packs!! That means that the game is on track to ship in late July 2018! (As a note, this does not include the New RWBY Character Pack as that is still expected to ship separate.)
As soon we have a final production sample here in our hands, we will be sharing photos with all of our Backers - with the proper spoiler tag, for those of you who want to remain surprised when it shows up on your doorstep. In the meantime, Arcane Wonders was recently at the GAMA Trade Show presenting some of their games, as well as an updated version of RWBY: Combat Ready. The team from Arcane Wonders will be visiting a number of upcoming trade shows and conventions this year, and we'll be sharing all of this and more with you once the final schedule has been locked down! (And maybe some more new artwork and cards, hmm?)

Photo from the GAMA Trade Show - Arcane Wonders showing off RWBY: Combat Ready

Photo from the GAMA Trade Show - Arcane Wonders' booth
Next, we want to address the concerns that our International Backers are experiencing, especially those located in the European Union (+UK), Australia, and New Zealand. We want to apologize for the delays that have occurred. There were unexpected issues with our overseas warehouses that have held up our shipping of the merchandise from our Austin location to those two locations. This is in the works of being fixed right now, but we are pushing to have these orders fulfilled out of those local warehouses to help you from having to pay outrageous additional customs and duties fees and held packages. The new estimated timeline is to have these shipping to you towards the end of May.
Finally, we've seen comments that Backers are receiving damaged products, missing items, or concerns about their addresses. As always, contact us immediately at support@teamRWBY.com where one of our Community Support members will be able to assist you in remedying your issue.
We know that in long-life campaigns, it can feel as if the runners of the campaign are forgetting about the page and ignoring their Backers. We don't ever want this to be the case with y'all and will be working towards being more active all around, from being more active in the comments here, and upping the cadence of updates, we want you to know that Rooster Teeth will never forget about the community that has been and will always be a part of our family.
<3
Rooster Teeth

The Narrator · May 8, 2018

Mook said:
Another Kickstarter Update:

...I did not know that this was a thing.

Mook · May 8, 2018

The Narrator said:
...I did not know that this was a thing.

Its been a while since the kickstarter ran. I think you can still pledge, maybe? I think it just doesn't count against the milestones (though we've passed all of those already) but I think you can still pledge to get the game, some of the bonus stuff like tokens and t-shirts might not be avaivable? Not sure.

If its too late to pledge it should show up in the store at some point, but you would need to wait until the game has been shipped at least.

Will the game be available post-Kickstarter? Will EVERYTHING be available post-Kickstarter?

If we are successfully funded, a version of the game will be available in the Rooster Teeth Online Store.
At this point in time, the Art Prints, Challenge Coin, and t-shirt are Kickstarter Exclusive.

The Narrator · May 8, 2018

Mook said:
I think you can still pledge, maybe?

Oh, I'm not interested in pledging or anything. I only play board games on rare occasions, and I already have plenty to choose from. Maybe if it were a tabletop RPG, 'cause I'd be curious to see how that turned out.

I was just surprised that I hadn't heard this mentioned before.

Mook · May 9, 2018

Hey, we've got a opening cinematic for Cross Tag Battle now and it is awesome.

Edit:

NorthSouthGorem · May 9, 2018

Mook said:
Hey, we've got a opening cinematic for Cross Tag Battle now and it is awesome.

Edit:

Can't see gif, cap'n.

Mook · May 9, 2018

NorthSouthGorem said:
Can't see gif, cap'n.

NorthSouthGorem · May 9, 2018

Mook said:

Yup, that's better.

Leingod · May 10, 2018

By the by, I had cause to look at some of the older concept art for the main characters a while back.

Ruby's general design seems to have been settled on pretty early, but her PJs were chosen from three options, as you can see here.

Weiss originally had a part to her hair that's usually associated with "Yamato Nadeshiko" type characters, her ponytail would have been straight from the start, and she'd have had these black dangly things hanging from her sleeves and skirt that were almost certainly ditched due to how hard they'd be to animate. I like the hair, but the dangly things make me think of furniture, so...

Blake's outfit would have been totally different, her hair would have been wavy instead of straight, and she would have been heterochromatic, with blue and yellow eyes. Plus her left ear would have had a splash of tabby color on it. Gonna be honest, I'd have preferred this look for Blake.

Yang's changes were all in her color scheme, no real differences in the outfit or her actual design itself as far as I can see.

Jaune, on the other hand, would have had a much more farm boy or ranch hand look to him, before they apparently decided to take the top half of that first idea and the bottom half of the second idea to get us canon Jaune's "city teenager in armor" look. I guess they changed it because this was the point in planning where his color association would have been blue (because his name would have been pronounced like the "jean" in "blue jeans") and they felt the cowboy look would have taken away from that, and they didn't decide to reconsider the design after going with yellow instead?

I wonder if, at some point, Jaune and Oscar were going to be one character (the fact that Jaune in these artworks has brown eyes like Oscar later had kind of adds to that), and they were later split into two for some reason, and Jaune lost the cowboy look because it would have made him too similar or something?

They probably should have kept it, honestly, because I will note that Oscar needed Aura and Semblance explained to him via Ren (which is when we learned that Aura is an active barrier rather than a passive one), and no one flipped their sh*t and claimed it ruined their suspension of disbelief.

Nora was, of course, perfect from the very beginning and needed no changes.

Pyrrha's only noticeable changes are on her head: she doesn't have that circlet, and her hair is worn loose and curls at the ends. Most likely, this was changed for ease of animation (and frankly, I'm surprised she got to keep her side cape, though I suppose its majesty was just too great to ignore). I figure that, free from the constraints of the show's animation needs, she'd probably wear her hair like this when not dressed for battle, like when she's attending classes in uniform or at the dance. I mean, when you stop and think about it, it's a little weird that she wears that circlet just about 24/7.

Ren, along with Blake, is the one who underwent the biggest changes. His original look was a lot more androgynous (and I think this is where they got his hairstyle as a child). Personally, I like it, though I definitely like Ren's new look best.

VolantRedX · May 10, 2018

Leingod said:
Jaune, on the other hand, would have had a much more farm boy or ranch hand look to him, before they apparently decided to take the top half of that first idea and the bottom half of the second idea to get us canon Jaune's "city teenager in armor" look. I guess they changed it because this was the point in planning where his color association would have been blue (because his name would have been pronounced like the "jean" in "blue jeans") and they felt the cowboy look would have taken away from that, and they didn't decide to reconsider the design after going with yellow instead?

I wonder if, at some point, Jaune and Oscar were going to be one character (the fact that Jaune in these artworks has brown eyes like Oscar later had kind of adds to that), and they were later split into two for some reason, and Jaune lost the cowboy look because it would have made him too similar or something?

They probably should have kept it, honestly, because I will note that Oscar needed Aura and Semblance explained to him via Ren (which is when we learned that Aura is an active barrier rather than a passive one), and no one flipped their sh*t and claimed it ruined their suspension of disbelief.

Honestly given the changes in Jaune's look it seems like they went from "country bumpkin" to "modern teenager" in terms of character. Jaune never mentions anything about farm work other than a one off joke and more often just seems like a guy from the suburbs of America. Honestly making him a farm boy would explain certain aspects of his character, like how he is able to match trained fighters in terms of raw physical strength or the comments made about his work ethic. I don't think it'd make Jaune more popular to a lot of the audience due to the seeming misjudgement of what audience RWBY would have been aimed at, but it would have given his early character a lot more depth to work with.

Zam · May 10, 2018

VolantRedX said:
Honestly given the changes in Jaune's look it seems like they went from "country bumpkin" to "modern teenager" in terms of character. Jaune never mentions anything about farm work other than a one off joke and more often just seems like a guy from the suburbs of America. Honestly making him a farm boy would explain certain aspects of his character, like how he is able to match trained fighters in terms of raw physical strength or the comments made about his work ethic. I don't think it'd make Jaune more popular to a lot of the audience due to the seeming misjudgement of what audience RWBY would have been aimed at, but it would have given his early character a lot more depth to work with.

Given the strength of hunters I don't think farm work would justify him being able to keep up with them unless his Aura was active and he just didn't know the specifics of what it was and or how it was utilized for fighting.

Leila Hann · May 10, 2018

SpeckofStardust said:
Your starting to invent stuff to explain why he's a bad man, Like he outright stated he hid the maidens as best he could, (He also stated he has fucked up more then anyone else) in a manner like how America hid the development of nukes until we no longer needed to, none of this points to him secretly being a evil person, now he likely has done bad things in the past but I highly doubt he intends/intended to make the world a worse place. Is he perfect?, no. But he's a person which means he has flaws just like everyone does.

See, when you know you've fucked up more than anyone else, but still insist on hanging onto power and making decisions for everyone else, I'd say that makes you a pretty bad person regardless of how good you think your intentions are.

RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

Good Civ Inspector

Immaculate Blooming Lotus

Disembodied Voice

Disembodied Voice

To Walk Down Every Path

To Walk Down Every Path

Immaculate Blooming Lotus

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