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RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • What a shit chart. Lays into Yang for worrying about her friend Jaune's mental health over mostly-stranger Oscar's but defends Jaune attacking a child because "he's been through a lot."

    Double standards, amirite? IIRC this asshole laid into Yang way back when she lost her arm in v3, has consistently mocked her trauma in v4 and in general has been like "she had it coming." IIRC he's also defended Qrow's shit behaviors a lot of the time, and not in a mocking/sarcastic way either. Methinks he has an axe to grind. Maybe he was dumped by a girl similar in attitude to pre-Fall Yang.
     
    Okay I get that Maria is a newly created character but the writers seriously shot themselves in the foot when they made her out to be an incredibly famous Hunter that Qrow looked up to as one of his personal heroes and modeled his weapon after hers or whatever. But if she were that famous you'd think there would be statues of her, likely paraphernalia sold of her mask or weapons, or something that hints at her existence. Consider that Hunters are seen sort of like sports heroes that can get sponsorship deals like Pyrrha or the whole Vytal tournament and it makes Maria's total absence of fame even more baffling in-universe. There are statues of other famous Hunters in front of Beacon, there should have been one of Maria. Or maybe model younger Maria off a statue that was shown earlier in the show.
    5power said:
    Why?
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    For the lulz. Also the fan freakout would be A-Mei-Zing
     
    thesevenwielder said:
    Okay I get that Maria is a newly created character but the writers seriously shot themselves in the foot when they made her out to be an incredibly famous Hunter that Qrow looked up to as one of his personal heroes and modeled his weapon after hers or whatever. But if she were that famous you'd think there would be statues of her, likely paraphernalia sold of her mask or weapons, or something that hints at her existence. Consider that Hunters are seen sort of like sports heroes that can get sponsorship deals like Pyrrha or the whole Vytal tournament and it makes Maria's total absence of fame even more baffling in-universe. There are statues of other famous Hunters in front of Beacon, there should have been one of Maria. Or maybe model younger Maria off a statue that was shown earlier in the show.
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    It's also been like 60 years since her prime and from Qrow's reaction, she sort of fell off the map. It wouldn't be that odd that even the most famous heroes of their day to just fall out of public memory. Like she's from Atlas right? They might have a statue of her somewhere, and like some people might remember her if it gets brought up, but how often do you see Wilt Chamberlain brought up in conversation or how many teenagers today would know Yogi Berra off the top of their heads?
     
    Honestly, I would put money down right now that the ending is going to be Ruby convincing the two gods that despite all the bad people causing conflict humans are basically good and that given a chance they'll work together for peace and love. Basically ripping off Naruto and other such anime.
     
    VolantRedX said:
    It's also been like 60 years since her prime and from Qrow's reaction, she sort of fell off the map. It wouldn't be that odd that even the most famous heroes of their day to just fall out of public memory. Like she's from Atlas right? They might have a statue of her somewhere, and like some people might remember her if it gets brought up, but how often do you see Wilt Chamberlain brought up in conversation or how many teenagers today would know Yogi Berra off the top of their heads?
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    Your comparison is flawed. Sure the common man doesn't know Yogi Berra or Wilt Chamberlain. I certainly don't. But then I'm not a fan of baseball or basketball. Talk to someone who is big into sports, either as a fan or a sports player themselves. The odds are far higher that they have heard of those people. And to use your own comparison, judging from how Qrow treats her she's more like Babe Ruth. And even me, who thinks Baseball is among the most boring of sports, knows about The Babe.

    VolantRedX said:
    Honestly, I would put money down right now that the ending is going to be Ruby convincing the two gods that despite all the bad people causing conflict humans are basically good and that given a chance they'll work together for peace and love. Basically ripping off Naruto and other such anime.
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    Those anime earned those 'people are basically good except for a few' deals. So far RWBY hasn't. Apparently racism is widespread enough for entire towns to have active lynch mobs less than half a decade ago. Atlas is presumably even worse in this regard, given that the only Atlesians we know of outside Ironwood, Wiess and Winter are basically total assholes. Yes, even FNKI, which consist of a man holding a grudge against Weiss for something her asshole of a father did, and the other constantly negs her opponents in what is supposed to be a fun bout. In Vale we have Roman Torchwick, Junior and his goons, and apparently racism is bad enough in that city, supposedly the least racist of the bunch, for an active recruitment for the White Fang to be successful, even with Roman Torchwick himself leading the parade.
     
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    thesevenwielder said:
    Your comparison is flawed. Sure the common man doesn't know Yogi Berra or Wilt Chamberlain. I certainly don't. But then I'm not a fan of baseball or basketball. Talk to someone who is big into sports, either as a fan or a sports player themselves. The odds are far higher that they have heard of those people. And to use your own comparison, judging from how Qrow treats her she's more like Babe Ruth. And even me, who thinks Baseball is among the most boring of sports, knows about The Babe.
    .
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    You mean her biggest fan treats her like the biggest thing ever? Also, a good deal of sports fans might not know every player in history even the biggest of all time. I'll have to rewatch the episode again to really give a better commentary, but IIRC it seems like Maria didn't really do anything after nearly dying and faded into obscurity. That sort of ignoble end to a story does a lot to make people forget your name.

    thesevenwielder said:
    Those anime earned those 'people are basically good except for a few' deals. So far RWBY hasn't. Apparently racism is widespread enough for entire towns to have active lynch mobs less than half a decade ago. Atlas is presumably even worse in this regard, given that the only Atlesians we know of outside Ironwood, Wiess and Winter are basically total assholes. Yes, even FNKI, which consist of a man holding a grudge against Weiss for something her asshole of a father did, and the other constantly negs her opponents in what is supposed to be a fun bout. In Vale we have Roman Torchwick, Junior and his goons, and apparently racism is bad enough in that city, supposedly the least racist of the bunch, for an active recruitment for the White Fang to be successful, even with Roman Torchwick himself leading the parade.
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    I mean they outright said that the Menagerie militia saving Haven has done wonders to improve the situation for Faunus in Ministerial. Beyond that given that how RWBY has been so far doing you really think they care if they earn their ending or do you think they'll just do it because that's how these sorts of shows end elsewhere and they're copying that format? So far Ruby has made like a dozen speeches to the effect of "people are good and life is worth living" so her making one to save the world seems right in line with the show, even it makes no sense.
     
    Honestly given the gods are genocidal I find the idea of the story ending with the cast trying to get their approval annoying and dis-empowering.


    Also I really resent that the status chart snipes at Yang for not checking on Oscar but excuses Jaune's behaviour.
     
    VolantRedX said:
    Beyond that given that how RWBY has been so far doing you really think they care if they earn their ending or do you think they'll just do it because that's how these sorts of shows end elsewhere and they're copying that format? So far Ruby has made like a dozen speeches to the effect of "people are good and life is worth living" so her making one to save the world seems right in line with the show, even it makes no sense.
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    You said it, not me.

    Zam said:
    Honestly given the gods are genocidal I find the idea of the story ending with the cast trying to get their approval annoying and dis-empowering.

    Also I really resent that the status chart snipes at Yang for not checking on Oscar but excuses Jaune's behaviour.
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    IKR?
     
    Zam said:
    Honestly given the gods are genocidal I find the idea of the story ending with the cast trying to get their approval annoying and dis-empowering.
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    I mean not to be that guy but isn't that basically all of human religion? Seeking the approval of genocidal gods to prevent more punishment?

    Zam said:
    Also I really resent that the status chart snipes at Yang for not checking on Oscar but excuses Jaune's behaviour.
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    The charts are funny but they seem oddly critical of team RWBY while giving everyone else a pass.

    thesevenwielder said:
    You said it, not me.
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    Like I've said many times, RWBY is far far from perfect.
     
    thesevenwielder said:
    What a shit chart. Lays into Yang for worrying about her friend Jaune's mental health over mostly-stranger Oscar's but defends Jaune attacking a child because "he's been through a lot."

    Double standards, amirite? IIRC this asshole laid into Yang way back when she lost her arm in v3, has consistently mocked her trauma in v4 and in general has been like "she had it coming." IIRC he's also defended Qrow's shit behaviors a lot of the time, and not in a mocking/sarcastic way either. Methinks he has an axe to grind. Maybe he was dumped by a girl similar in attitude to pre-Fall Yang.
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    Uhhhh. You realize this chart is satire right?
     
    VolantRedX said:
    I mean not to be that guy but isn't that basically all of human religion? Seeking the approval of genocidal gods to prevent more punishment?
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    That is a manner in which many religions cam be interpreted though I imagine adherents may view it differently; but maybe this is just me speaking as a none religious person who barely understood the concept of religion until I was ten but I find that dis-empowering and rather unpleasant as a narrative and story and don't see how it would be a happy ending so to speak.

    VolantRedX said:
    The charts are funny but they seem oddly critical of team RWBY while giving everyone else a pass.
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    I stopped finding them funny awhile ago and yeah that plays a big role to me to be honest :/ Plus calling implied bigotry 'roasting is ugh to me. I get why others enjoy and share them, I just can't get into them.

    Tython82 said:
    The boy under Jaunes entry of the chart might be refering to Oscar and bot Jaune himself.
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    Maybe but I don't really see how it can be seen that way at least from where I am looking.
     
    Zam said:
    That is a manner in which many religions cam be interpreted though I imagine adherents may view it differently; but maybe this is just me speaking as a none religious person who barely understood the concept of religion until I was ten but I find that dis-empowering and rather unpleasant as a narrative and story and don't see how it would be a happy ending so to speak.
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    Gods are basically people assigning personality traits to forces of nature. Stories of gods are disempowering by design because they deal with forces that are simply beyond human control and teach people the humility to accept that.

    Its like that story of King Canute ordering the waves to cease hitting the shore to demonstrate to his court how for all his worldly power there were some things that he simply could not do.

    There's a reason stories of people going to the underworld pretty much always end in failure. Because if you told a story about how the magical psychopomp fairy will bring everyone back to life and let everyone live forever then that story would not be very helpful for dealing with real life.
     
    Mook said:
    Gods are basically people assigning personality traits to forces of nature. Stories of gods are disempowering by design because they deal with forces that are simply beyond human control and teach people the humility to accept that.

    Its like that story of King Canute ordering the waves to cease hitting the shore to demonstrate to his court how for all his worldly power there were some things that he simply could not do.

    There's a reason stories of people going to the underworld pretty much always end in failure. Because if you told a story about how the magical psychopomp fairy will bring everyone back to life and let everyone live forever then that story would not be very helpful for dealing with real life.
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    I mean, that's the difference between "Gods as believed in by RL people" and "Gods inside a fictional story that no-one believes in". RL Gods might be "assigning personality traits to forces of nature" and so be used to teach lessons about human limitations, but completely-in-fiction Gods are as much "real" characters as any other fictional character written by the same author. They just tend to be more powerful than the other characters of the story. The first can't do the "bring everyone back to life and let everyone live forever " as you said, because RL people would come to disbelieve the whole religion pretty fast when the claimed effects don't work and it doesn't help as a moral. The second gods, given that they were written in a fantasy world to begin with, can be written as being able to "bring everyone back to life and let everyone live forever" without the need for the message to be helpful with dealing with real life.

    Indeed, the RWBY gods apparently have a variety of ways to easily disable death, from immortality to reincarnation, but apparently just left death running as default because fuck mortals I guess. And if the RWBY gods were going for some "dying is an important lesson" nonsense, I hope by the end of RWBY it's one that the gods get to experience themselves because fuck that.
     
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    Shinji117 said:
    I mean, that's the difference between "Gods as believed in by RL people" and "Gods inside a fictional story that no-one believes in". RL Gods might be "assigning personality traits to forces of nature" and so be used to teach lessons about human limitations, but completely-in-fiction Gods are as much "real" characters as any other fictional character written by the same author. They just tend to be more powerful than the other characters of the story. The first can't do the "bring everyone back to life and let everyone live forever " as you said, because RL people would come to disbelieve the whole religion pretty fast when the claimed effects don't work and it doesn't help as a moral. The second gods, given that they were written in a fantasy world to begin with, can be written as being able to "bring everyone back to life and let everyone live forever" without the need for the message to be helpful with dealing with real life.

    Indeed, the RWBY gods apparently have a variety of ways to easily disable death, from immortality to reincarnation, but apparently just left death running as default because fuck mortals I guess. And if the RWBY gods were going for some "dying is an important lesson" nonsense, I hope by the end of RWBY it's one that the gods get to experience themselves because fuck that.
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    Wasn't death some kind of deal the God of Light made with his brother? Like, he'll give his creations a 'natural' expiration date so that his brother would stop killing all of them?
     
    Mook said:
    Gods are basically people assigning personality traits to forces of nature. Stories of gods are disempowering by design because they deal with forces that are simply beyond human control and teach people the humility to accept that.

    Its like that story of King Canute ordering the waves to cease hitting the shore to demonstrate to his court how for all his worldly power there were some things that he simply could not do.

    There's a reason stories of people going to the underworld pretty much always end in failure. Because if you told a story about how the magical psychopomp fairy will bring everyone back to life and let everyone live forever then that story would not be very helpful for dealing with real life.
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    More or less what Shinji117 regarding the nature of gods and their use in stories believed or not, especially given there's series like Gurren Lagen or Asura, or even Clash of the Titans where you basically punch the equivalent of god/gods in the face or tell them to stop being jackasses and they have to listen.

    I think I discussed this with someone, not sure, and they noted how a lot of those stories when it is a mortal actually allow the person to come back from the dead so long as a certain condition is met rather than just denying it outright and the failure to resurrect that person then falls on the person who screwed up a simple instruction like "Don't look behind you."
    Gh055twr1t3r said:
    Wasn't death some kind of deal the God of Light made with his brother? Like, he'll give his creations a 'natural' expiration date so that his brother would stop killing all of them?
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    I don't think that was established as the reason why, especially given Darkness whines about the rules of life and death being tilted in his brothers favor when they start arguing about it.
     
    Shinji117 said:
    I mean, that's the difference between "Gods as believed in by RL people" and "Gods inside a fictional story that no-one believes in". RL Gods might be "assigning personality traits to forces of nature" and so be used to teach lessons about human limitations, but completely-in-fiction Gods are as much "real" characters as any other fictional character written by the same author. They just tend to be more powerful than the other characters of the story. The first can't do the "bring everyone back to life and let everyone live forever " as you said, because RL people would come to disbelieve the whole religion pretty fast when the claimed effects don't work and it doesn't help as a moral. The second gods, given that they were written in a fantasy world to begin with, can be written as being able to "bring everyone back to life and let everyone live forever" without the need for the message to be helpful with dealing with real life.

    Indeed, the RWBY gods apparently have a variety of ways to easily disable death, from immortality to reincarnation, but apparently just left death running as default because fuck mortals I guess. And if the RWBY gods were going for some "dying is an important lesson" nonsense, I hope by the end of RWBY it's one that the gods get to experience themselves because fuck that.
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    Except death is important and the world wouldn't work without it. Populations would explode, the critically sick and injured would suffer forever and the number of people trapped forever would be insane.
     
    VolantRedX said:
    Except death is important and the world wouldn't work without it. Populations would explode, the critically sick and injured would suffer forever and the number of people trapped forever would be insane.
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    Well to begin with neither form of immortality that the gods have been shown to grant would have the "critically sick and injured would suffer forever" deal, given Salem-Immortality is instafix and Oz is reincarnate on serious injury. And IMO it's still better to be trapped "forever" (note- not actually forever given true immorality, as there would almost-always a way out even if it would take hundreds of years), or be permasick/injured than die.

    But that doesn't matter, as with as much control over life as they demonstrably have, none of that would have to be a problem. Even if you limit them to what they've done onscreen (so no increase in resources or reduction in birthrate or otherwise fixing those problems with their immense powers), just give everyone reincarnation on death and memory continuance like Oz.
    Have some kind of opt-out of reincarnation if some actually for whatever reason wants to permadie (I imagine this would be rarely taken enough for it to be a personal "go to either Godpool and ask personally deal). Have "new" souls be created only if there is literally no-one in the world in the "dead pool" waiting for a new body, which is going to be superrare.

    The problem of death (which is THE problem of all life) is now solved, through what the GoL has shown to do basically on a whim.
     
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