RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
 
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People: "Nothing is happening in RWBY! Show is so boring! Cut the talking and go to the exciting stuff!"

Also people: "JNPR (mainly Jaune) is taking up so much screentime! They should focus on RWBY!"

People now: "Why didn't they show RWBY and JNPR becoming friends on screen?"

RWBY, as a show has always had pacing issues. The friendship between all members of the two teams, while not explicitly shown, is heavily implied. For example: V2C1. Or IIRC there was an episode where Yang showed off her arm by armwrestling Nora.

Do you seriously want another season of sitting in a house where the episodes consist of 2 or 3 characters talking about something?
 
The reason why thing are awkward with each other is that Blake is accidentally undermining Yang recovery from her traumatic experience. For someone whose whole identity is about fighting being maimed rendered helpless attacks her identity at its core. Accepting her metal arm and going looking for Ruby was important because also meat take back her identity which big important step to her recovery. The problem is that because of her guilty Blake keeps trying to do things like help Yang with simple tasks which she do by herself and pleading to protect which Yang doesn't need opens up those wounds of being maimed rendered helpless.

That isn't to say that Yang doesn't need or could use help but what she needs someone she can talk to about her issue and experience, not a caretaker which Blake is trying be. So until ethier Blake realizes what is doing or Yang just tell us things will remain awkward between them.
I don't see this at all, Yang's shaking her flash backs, nightmares, visions and just how stressed and angry she is all the time tell me she wasn't ready to "get back out there" and cos she forced herself to she's not actually dealt with or opened up about her problems and is uncomfortable doing so by trying to project a veneer of stability and strength which is only paper thing.

Personally I think she was bothered by Blake's offer of protection Because, A, it is putting someone else in harms way for her safety which Yang doesn't want and B, shows Blake doesn't understand that it was her leaving that really hurt, not the arm.
 
People: "Nothing is happening in RWBY! Show is so boring! Cut the talking and go to the exciting stuff!"

Also people: "JNPR (mainly Jaune) is taking up so much screentime! They should focus on RWBY!"

People now: "Why didn't they show RWBY and JNPR becoming friends on screen?"
None of those are mutually exclusive fyi. It is possible to build friendships without sitting in a room for multiple episodes end on end talkin. In fact they weren't even talking to each other, they were talking about the plot.

Jaune was taking so much screentime. I get that JNPR was supposed to be the B Team but that requires that all the members get equal share of screen time. But no, up until the two-parter in volume 4, Ren and Nora were almost complete ciphers, and Pyrrha of course was Jaune's crutch and devoted waifu and died so to further his manpain.

And it is possible to give exposition without sitting in a room info dumping.

RWBY, as a show has always had pacing issues.
No shit. Tell me something I don't know.
 
Information: DIAL BACK THE SNARK A NOTCH
What is the most amusing is the absurd lengths BB fans will go to to defend their ship. It's almost amusing in how pathetic it is.
dial back the snark a notch 'You're so amusing it's pathetic' is a construction that could be infractable if it was aimed at someone in particular. So dial it back a bit.

Everyone else can defend their ship in here, or not, as they like. 'Your Waifu A Shit' is not infractable.
 
On the subject of JNPR and RWBY friendship: they went to school for a year, why would anyone assume that they don't know each other well when not only are they shown hanging out as a group (volume 2 and 3) but their leaders are shown to be friends (volume 1 and 2). It would be really weird if they weren't all friends tbh.

On the subject of Jaune & Weiss: this won't come as a shock to most people, but it's not actually uncommon for you to not know how to interact socially and learn the hard way. That's the normal way to learn most of these things,

expecting jaune to intrinsically know that you're just supposed to give up at the first sign of resistance is weird because
1. Media doesn't show it like that, how many movies and shows have you seen where the guy gets 10 nos and then a yes? A lot.
2. That's not how you're supposed to approach most other situations, it's basically only dating that you're supposed to take the path of least resistance as a rule.

On the subject of Blake and Yang: it's hilarious that Blake doesn't know Yang well enough to realize that treating her like she's soft and delicate would piss her off, they're supposed to be close so i guess Blake is just dumb
 
On the subject of Jaune & Weiss: this won't come as a shock to most people, but it's not actually uncommon for you to not know how to interact socially and learn the hard way. That's the normal way to learn most of these things,

expecting jaune to intrinsically know that you're just supposed to give up at the first sign of resistance is weird because
1. Media doesn't show it like that, how many movies and shows have you seen where the guy gets 10 nos and then a yes? A lot.
2. That's not how you're supposed to approach most other situations, it's basically only dating that you're supposed to take the path of least resistance as a rule.
The fact the media, which is what we are watching does this, is kind of the problem I feel.
Regardless I feel that you are over-complicating something very simple, for example.

Person 1: Hey wanna be friends with me and go to an arcade?
Person 2: Not interested, sorry.

Would, generally speaking, be enough to make you stop approaching the person and get they aren't interested. What's more a negative response "no don't touch that" is one of the first things any none super spoiled child is taught. That is to say, rejection is not a complex thing. If you get turned down for a job you don't generally go and try again for the exact same job at the exact same place a week later for another example.

I know lots of people have no issues with his behavior, but taking the manga into consideration, V1 and 2, and add in his (At times)) loud or intrusive methods at times and I can 100% understand why lots of people, myself included, found it to be exceedingly uncomfortable, pushy and disrespectful.

Like, if someone hasn't been taught to stop going for someone who is not interested then I feel that person has just been raised wrong, not that they are innocently nave in a way everyone is by the time they are 17.
On the subject of Blake and Yang: it's hilarious that Blake doesn't know Yang well enough to realize that treating her like she's soft and delicate would piss her off, they're supposed to be close so i guess Blake is just dumb
Just gonna re-state what I said above cos while possible, I seriously do not think that is the issue:
I don't see this at all, Yang's shaking her flash backs, nightmares, visions and just how stressed and angry she is all the time tell me she wasn't ready to "get back out there" and cos she forced herself to she's not actually dealt with or opened up about her problems and is uncomfortable doing so by trying to project a veneer of stability and strength which is only paper thing.

Personally I think she was bothered by Blake's offer of protection Because, A, it is putting someone else in harms way for her safety which Yang doesn't want and B, shows Blake doesn't understand that it was her leaving that really hurt, not the arm.
 
Remind me again but didn't Yang(paraphrasing) at one point encourage Jaune to pursue Weiss after being turned down or at least tell him not to give up
 
RWBY Volumes 1 and 2 were badly written messes with way too much focus on Jaune and stereotypical high school teen angst. What else is new?
 
Remind me again but didn't Yang(paraphrasing) at one point encourage Jaune to pursue Weiss after being turned down or at least tell him not to give up
The voice actors apparently said they interpreted that as her saying "One day you'll realize she isn't in to you" but yes her words are more understandably taken that way and given how often Yang is skeeved out by guys creeping on her, along with her general personality it makes no real sense and to soem I've spoken with is a reminder the show is written by two guys who probably never dealt with this kind of thing.
RWBY Volumes 1 and 2 were badly written messes with way too much focus on Jaune and stereotypical high school teen angst. What else is new?
Agreed on the Jaune aspect definitely, though I think there was some really good stuff in the rest of it though.
 
My issue is that Blake and Yang are acting like It's been at most a week since their reunion but it's supposed to be several weeks.

What does that even mean, regardless of the reason a few weeks aren't going fix anything especially since keeps messing up due to lack of understanding Blake.

On the subject of Blake and Yang: it's hilarious that Blake doesn't know Yang well enough to realize that treating her like she's soft and delicate would piss her off, they're supposed to be close so i guess Blake is just dumb

Blake guilt complex tends to blind to things like that.
 
On the subject of Jaune & Weiss: this won't come as a shock to most people, but it's not actually uncommon for you to not know how to interact socially and learn the hard way. That's the normal way to learn most of these things,

expecting jaune to intrinsically know that you're just supposed to give up at the first sign of resistance is weird because
1. Media doesn't show it like that, how many movies and shows have you seen where the guy gets 10 nos and then a yes? A lot.
2. That's not how you're supposed to approach most other situations, it's basically only dating that you're supposed to take the path of least resistance as a rule.

On reflection, you can sort of read the whole situation as something of a subversion of this trope, because at no point does Wiess say yes, and by all indications, Jaune has moved on. I doubt it's intentional and likely just CRWBY falling ass-backward into it but think about it, Jaune basically falls into all the steps of these sorts of stories. He even gets the whole "just be yourself" moment and goes to lay himself bare to get her to go to the dance with him and at that moment he is basically forced to realize that it's not going to work. Wiess is never going to like him like that.
 
So I kinda want to expand on my Yang post from earlier:

I see a lot of people saying Yang doesn't want to be coddled, needed a kick in the pants, ETC and while that is a valid interpretation if not one I agree with or am comfortable with, here is my take on her & Blake's situation right now.

Yang has had to be the strong one for a long time, since she was like, four, she kept the family together when it was falling apart, Tai was either shut down or at work and it doesn't seem like anyone ever told her she can, well, stop., or that she ever felt she could. Even in V1 she's still very much a mom-ish character to Ruby and based on the Yellow Trailer seems disinclined to discuss or get others involved in her search for Raven. She also let her walls down to Blake to help Blake deal with her own problems and the two grew closer from that and it ultimately helped Blake a great deal.



When Beacon Falls and Ruby spoke to Yang, I think it is very interesting to note her arm didn't even come up. Seriously, she mentions their adopted home falling, Penny, Pyrrha but not her arm and only tears up in regards to Blake before either consciously or subconsciously closing off with anger, likely as a defense mechanism.

We see her only loosely allude to Beacon and all it cost her in one conversation with Tai, and that was an argument, we never actually see Yang cry, or grieve, or talk about what happened in a way that might be deemed healthy until V5. The response she got from Tai also I feel says a lot about that "Never able to stop being the strong one" thing. Remember, in response to Yang seemingly bringing up her lost arm he said "But that doesn't have to stop you from being who you want to be. So whenever you're ready to stop moping around, I'll be there for you."

Take it as you desire, but given his main offered help was the prosthetic and helping Yang fight & he just walked away when she had a panic attack... Yeah I get the impression Yang has not actually vented or properly even processed what happened at Beacon. Al his help was conditional and based around getting Yang back into the action and given she's still literally seeing things, having nightmares and panic attacks, I'd argue she was not ready to return to action, we see her decide to put the prosthetic on with a sad, guilty expression, not a triumphant or hopefully one.



She maintains her chipper attitude as much as she can when reuniting with everyone but before seeing them she's a lot more dour, closed off and lethargic. Leading me to think this if more a mask for everyone else's benefit than a true sign of her having healed. It' only when Blake comes up and someone actually engages with and tries to offer both comfort and explanations that Yang starts really expressing her sadness and not closing it off, but processing it.
Compare htis to Ruby who was asking Yang what to do or insisting there must be a reason Blake left right when the wound was still fresh, Yang wasn't in a fit state to discuss the matter at that point or offer Ruby the guidance/support she needed because she needed it as well. Ruby did offer the hug and I love you, not denying it, just noting that time and Weiss's more clearly definite suggestive support (IE, offering explanations for Blake over just insistence, helped Yang deal and as noted, Yang let her walls down. That is to say, Yang showed vulnerability, sadness, weakness and pain in that discussion with no shame or anger.

This is why I don't think Yang's anger come from Blake offering to protect her and that hurting her pride or making her feel coddled. Especially when you consider what Yang said about Blake, and how she both wanted to be there for Blake, but also that she needed Blake there for her. That is a pretty big admission there from someone who's always had to keep things together and I think also indicates that yes, she did want Blake to be there to support, comfort and aid in her recovery. She also wanted to offer the same to Blake so maybe an essence of "I want to be there for you two" comes into it with Blake's offer of protection, but I do not think that alone would cause anger in Yang.



Ultimately, given Yang is still seeing flashes of Adam, given just how angry she is now compared to earlier seasons, how she was rather than angry at Blake when Blake offered help with her bag but just sort of down beat and given what she said, my thinking is this.

Firstly, Yang was not ready to return to the fight, she hasn't discussed or processed much at all of what came at Beacon and has had no solid recovery beyond the physical, Blake's story arcs in V4 and 5 shows her gaining a sense of comfort, security, in a welcoming home, discussing her loss, her issues and pain, but we only get a brief flash of that with Yang, hence part of why I think she is not nearly as well recovered as she acts. (Though there are still elements of Blake that hint at lingering trauma cos that stuff doesn't just leave you)

Secondly, Yang is frustrated/hurt that Blake is treating it like her lost arm was the issue, while she herself in the immediate fall out clearly saw Blake leaving her as the most painful thing. What's more, she knows, that Blake' knows about Raven meaning that to Yang, Blake left her knowing she'd been abandoned before and right after a lot of really bad stuff happened to both of them. Thus, Blake saying she'll protect Yang, when Yang wants them to be there for each other and when the thing that seemed to hurt Yang most was her leaving, to Yang, indicates that Blake doesn't understand her as well as she hoped. Note how happy she looked when Blake said she'd be there with her, until the protection thing came up. Blake saying she'd be there with Yang is likely everything she wanted to hear, but then it was followed up by her saying something that makes Yang realize "oh, she thinks its the arm that hurt me and or I am angry at her about."
Ultimately, things would be so much better between them if they'd just open up and talk to each other, but Blake still feels so much shame and guilt and Yang is too hurt and stressed to want to be that vulnerable again.

Something has to give though, I hope, and they can start to heal.



Also, anyone else love that Blake is calling out and acknowledging Adam's manipulative and abusive personality? Cos I love that, go Blake, you are so much stronger than him.



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Like, I feel this is really important to note, but Yang is not, as far as I can see, by any stretch better, healed or more recovered than she was in V4. She's still shaking, still having nightmares if i recall, still hallucinating. She might seem more chipper, but that seems to go hand in hand with being a lot more angry.
Like, compare her old anger to her current anger. Old anger would flare up briefly, and was either directed at an enemy (Junior, Grimm ETC) or no one (Emerald Forest Temple). We only saw her get angry at a companion once, Blake and it was controlled, done to demonstrate Blake was too weak to fight and followed by a hug and Yang giving Blake distance. In comparison, her current anger is longer, sharper, more biting and directed at those close to her and leads her to quickly cutting herself off. So yeah, as far as I can see she only made a physical recovery in V4, not a mental one.

What's more, on the Blake and comforting her thing. When Yang hallucinates Adam in the barn, she at first tries to hide & dismiss it, but quickly caves & explains herself to Blake. This indicates she's either been able to hide or cover this up to everyone else which fits with her trying to put on a strong face. But she reveals these insecurities and vulnerabilities to Blake with very little prompting.

So yeah, I don't think this is an ego thing or not wanting someone she wanted to be there for her, trying to be there for her thing. I think she very much wants Blake to be there for her, but is scared to trust and fears Blake may not understand her at all and she's too twisted up inside to really express any of that.
 
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That would be pretty amusing, too. What's also amusing is as of this moment, Salem feels more sympathetic in her backstory then even Mercury or Emerald.
That's more debatable. Mercury also had an abusive father and Emerald allowed her love for someone blind her to all the bad things she was doing. Salem is sort of a combination of the two. It's not that weird. The devil also has a pretty sympathetic backstory if you read Paradise Lost.
 
That would be pretty amusing, too. What's also amusing is as of this moment, Salem feels more sympathetic in her backstory then even Mercury or Emerald.

I don't think mercury is supposed to be sympathetic, he's not that bad of a person that he needs a sympathetic backstory.

Emerald on the other hand is going to be full tearjerker when something tragic happens, like she gives her life for cinder and cinder barely cares or the audience is shown undeniable proof that cinder doesn't care about her and then emerald is in total denial about it
 
I don't think mercury is supposed to be sympathetic, he's not that bad of a person that he needs a sympathetic backstory.
And Grimm Satan didn't need a sympathetic backstory, but here we are.

Emerald, on the other hand, I want to firmly reject any chance of being good, mostly to spite the people who think Emerald is some sort of tragic redeemable woobie type figure.
 
Emerald, on the other hand, I want to firmly reject any chance of being good, mostly to spite the people who think Emerald is some sort of tragic redeemable woobie type figure.
I mean I see Emerald as sort of like Harley Quinn in the sense that she was likely not all that stable to begin with but is now way past the point of regaining any control over her life all because she fell in love with the wrong person. Of course Cinder isn't anywhere as bad as the Joker on any level so the whole thing is a wash.
 
And Grimm Satan didn't need a sympathetic backstory, but here we are.

She totally did. 3D villains is a good thing, eviler they are the more you need to justify and explain it

Emerald, on the other hand, I want to firmly reject any chance of being good, mostly to spite the people who think Emerald is some sort of tragic redeemable woobie type figure.

Emerald going good makes basically no sense since she didn't defect from salem when she thought cinder was dead, so rest assured
 
Because otherwise you tend to get dudes like Snoke.
On the other hand, Bowser can be a pretty badass villain at times, he has no sympathetic backstory, and he revels in his evil. Pure evil protagonists can work. They have worked just fine for ages. It's only recent that moral ambiguity and sympathetic motives have made their way into the spotlight. But I miss the traditional villains, like Maleficient or Scar or most Ganondorf incarnations.
 
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