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RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • Well, I thought this whole trip to argus will take more time. It really seems that they are speeding things up this volume.

    I'm less happy about Jaune and the rest of B-team being together with RWBY, since we do have a bit of a character bloat atm.

    Also, yay lesbian couple treated well

    I hope they'll serve as a good example for Blake and Yang

    I like the developments with Qrow and that old woman (I forgot her name).
     
    Honestly speaking of having more villains RWBY already has a secondary big bad unassociated with Salem at this point who has major plot threads with two of the main characters. Adam is pretty much certain to show up, now without anything left to lose and with an even bigger desire for revenge. It's likely he'll have a major part to play in the upcoming episodes.
     
    On the discussion of Maria's perceived weakness, given the huntsman academies are 80 years old, and naming people after colors happens at the same time, which Maria Calavera doesn't seem to be, it is quite possible she didn't receive any formal training since that flashback very well could have been before or around the start of Huntsman Academies.
     
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    Zam said:
    Or Cinder is operating on the orders Tyrien was given. Or Salem has updated her order since then due to a change in priorities or because of Ruby specifically. Or Cinder is lying.

    Like, Maria was anywhere between 20 and 30 in that, and now she is quite old, why couldn't Salem's orders be changed?

    Heck, we also saw Cinder instruct Emerald not to kill Ruby if I recall in V5 didn't we?
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    I think whole not kill Ruby thing is not about trying keep Ruby alive and more about making sure Cinder doesn't try to fight her and mess up everything.

    Zam said:
    Or Cinder is operating on the orders Tyrien was given. Or Salem has updated her order since then due to a change in priorities or because of Ruby specifically. Or Cinder is lying.

    Like, Maria was anywhere between 20 and 30 in that, and now she is quite old, why couldn't Salem's orders be changed?

    Heck, we also saw Cinder instruct Emerald not to kill Ruby if I recall in V5 didn't we?
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    I think whole not kill Ruby thing is not about trying keep Ruby alive and more about making sure Cinder doesn't try to fight her.

    draconas said:
    On the discussion of Maria's perceived weakness, given the huntsman academies are 80 years old, and naming people after colors happens at the same time, which Maria Calavera doesn't seem to be, it is quite possible she didn't receive any formal training since that flashback very well could have been before or around the start of Hunstman Academies.
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    Here is my two sense. What makes people think Nevermore's are all weak? Because of a Grim's strength is determined by how long it as survived not by it's species and one that got taken in season one still needed entire team to die. As for goons, well it kinda hard fight four on one no matter who you are and main one pretty powful and I assume Salum would pick someone who is powerful.
     
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    So I gotta say IMO the animation software RWBY uses is really not made for animating babies. Adrian looks straight up like a dwarf that they dressed up in baby clothes. That's some uncanny shit right there.
     
    5power said:
    Here is my two sense. What makes people think Nevermore's are all weak? Because of a Grim's strength is determined by how long it as survived not by it's species and one that got taken in season one still needed entire team to die. As for goons, well it kinda hard fight four on one no matter who you are and main one pretty powful and I assume Salum would pick someone who is powerful.
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    Well, yeah. While the Initiation Nevermore is hard to compare sizes to since Maria spends all her time on her Nevermore's wing and RWBY spent most of their time around the head, it is much larger then the one Ruby rode in her character short. And commensurately older, stronger, and smarter.

     
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    I swear, them making Lancaster official may actually cause me to stop watching altogether. This teasing is bad enough. Jaune fucking Arc has already taken enough of Ruby's screen time and character development away. If Miles Jaune hooks up with the MC it will only get even worse as he is thrust into the spotlight once again. Will Ruby suffer a grievous injury for his MANPAIN too, like Pyrrha and Weiss?

    we finally have decent representation of lgbt characters. Not perfect b/c they are background characters, there is a chance they might fall victim to the Bury Your Gays trope, and it doesn't make any sense that Jaune would have his bigoted views of women in the first two volumes growing up with a sister like that. But it's a start.

    In other news, I'm almost shocked that wasps can still consider BB canon after the kiss. But that's getting into shipping territory.
     
    thesevenwielder said:
    I swear, them making Lancaster official may actually cause me to stop watching altogether. This teasing is bad enough. Jaune fucking Arc has already taken enough of Ruby's screen time and character development away. If Miles Jaune hooks up with the MC it will only get even worse as he is thrust into the spotlight once again. Will Ruby suffer a grievous injury for his MANPAIN too, like Pyrrha and Weiss?
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    At what point did they make Lancaster official? If anything they seemed to have done a lot making Jaune see Ruby as like a little sister. It is sort of important to remember that Jaune is several years older than her.

    thesevenwielder said:
    we finally have decent representation of lgbt characters. Not perfect b/c they are background characters, there is a chance they might fall victim to the Bury Your Gays trope, and it doesn't make any sense that Jaune would have his bigoted views of women in the first two volumes growing up with a sister like that. But it's a start.
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    What bigoted views? He certainly hasn't been given a ton of good dating advice in his life, but I don't see how that translates to misogyny.
     
    Namely that if a girl says no, she means no.

    I'm not saying Lancaster is canon, I am saying that they are giving a lot of hints and I fear it will become canon.
     
    thesevenwielder said:
    Namely that if a girl says no, she means no.
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    I don't know if that can be considered the same thing as misogyny. It's certainly shitty behavior, but being shitty isn't really the same thing as being a bigot.

    thesevenwielder said:
    I'm not saying Lancaster is canon, I am saying that they are giving a lot of hints and I fear it will become canon.
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    That's fair. I'm still holding out hope that they'll follow through with Nuts and Dolts. At the very least give at least a token hit that it exists in the main canon.

    As another side note I wonder if when Emerald finds Cinder she's going to be jealous of Neo. That'd be pretty funny.
     
    VolantRedX said:
    I don't know if that can be considered the same thing as misogyny. It's certainly shitty behavior, but being shitty isn't really the same thing as being a bigot.
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    Look, the guy had seven sisters, and one is in a happy, lesbian relationship. And he somehow didn't learn to respect women's boundaries while growing up. It doesn't say good things about him.

    Loosely related, it's very strange that Blake and Yang went to hug Jaune and Ren respectively, considering neither pair have ever exchanged two words with each other during the entire six years the show has been running.
     
    thesevenwielder said:
    Look, the guy had seven sisters, and one is in a happy, lesbian relationship. And he somehow didn't learn to respect women's boundaries while growing up. It doesn't say good things about him.

    Loosely related, it's very strange that Blake and Yang went to hug Jaune and Ren respectively, considering neither pair have ever exchanged two words with each other during the entire six years the show has been running.
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    Jaune has been shown to be an...idiot when it comes to social interactions. It doesn't excuse the behavior.
     
    thesevenwielder said:
    Look, the guy had seven sisters, and one is in a happy, lesbian relationship. And he somehow didn't learn to respect women's boundaries while growing up. It doesn't say good things about him.

    Loosely related, it's very strange that Blake and Yang went to hug Jaune and Ren respectively, considering neither pair have ever exchanged two words with each other during the entire six years the show has been running.
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    I mean he certainly fails to take no for an answer, but by that logic a large number of protagonists in fiction are misogynists. Is Jaune any different from Timmy Turner, Danny Fenton, or even Naruto? They all chase after girls who do nothing but shoot them down. Danny even lies and manipulates Pauline in order to score dates with her. Naruto fails to take a hint despite being outright assaulted by Sakura.

    As an aside, we actually don't know anything about what Saphron was like when she was a teenager. For all, we know she's the one who told him not to take no for an answer and just hope for the best. Just because she now has a wife and child means nothing really. I mean Pyrrha was in love with Jaune when he was at his most insufferable. It could be the same situation with Terra and Saphron. Being a lesbian doesn't imply anything about her behavior.

    As for Blake and Yang, it's been pretty well hinted that the teams have interacted more often than was shown to us. If nothing else they've spent days if not weeks in the same house in Haven so it'd be odd if they didn't talk even once. Though it does raise the question as to why Blake and Yang are so awkward around each other. I'll chalk that one up to poor writing.
     
    Blake and Yang are so awkward around each other because of the reasons Yang said to Weiss in there convo last volume, like regardless of shipping that relationship isnt really like the others. It wasn't just being apart from each other, they were both marked or maimed by the same man within moments of each other, and then a separation that amplified both of there own issues in running away vs being abandoned.

    The fact that that hasn't healed yet is not bad writing, there was far more trauma involved in that then in any of the other relationships.

    You also cant forget that JNPR knew about Blake being a faunus by the time V2 started, the teams were clearly spending alot of time becoming close to each other in between volumes. (Something the video game, Light Novels and Manga show)
     
    VolantRedX said:
    I mean he certainly fails to take no for an answer, but by that logic a large number of protagonists in fiction are misogynists. Is Jaune any different from Timmy Turner, Danny Fenton, or even Naruto? They all chase after girls who do nothing but shoot them down. Danny even lies and manipulates Pauline in order to score dates with her. Naruto fails to take a hint despite being outright assaulted by Sakura.

    As an aside, we actually don't know anything about what Saphron was like when she was a teenager. For all, we know she's the one who told him not to take no for an answer and just hope for the best. Just because she now has a wife and child means nothing really. I mean Pyrrha was in love with Jaune when he was at his most insufferable. It could be the same situation with Terra and Saphron. Being a lesbian doesn't imply anything about her behavior.

    As for Blake and Yang, it's been pretty well hinted that the teams have interacted more often than was shown to us. If nothing else they've spent days if not weeks in the same house in Haven so it'd be odd if they didn't talk even once. Though it does raise the question as to why Blake and Yang are so awkward around each other. I'll chalk that one up to poor writing.
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    I mean, that is honestly a big problem with a lot of writing and media:

    Thoguh be it to varying degrees.

    As to (Its been 24 hours rights?) Just in case
    Saphron, we know Jaune got all his romantic advice from his dad as he was the only one referenced in this regard, so while it isn't impossible she gave such advice there's no actual reason to believe that is the case either.

    I agree the hug choices feel kinda off to me but I get what they were going for with it as you noted.
     
    On the non Jaune/Ruby hugs, I think it's an adequate example of show-not-tell. Teams RWBY and JNR have been friends and comrades in arms for nearly two years now; a quick hug of greeting is a decent way of visually showing off friendship without making too fuss.
     
    What is the most amusing is the absurd lengths BB fans will go to to defend their ship. It's almost amusing in how pathetic it is.

    Renewal said:
    On the non Jaune/Ruby hugs, I think it's an adequate example of show-not-tell. Teams RWBY and JNR have been friends and comrades in arms for nearly two years now; a quick hug of greeting is a decent way of visually showing off friendship without making too fuss.
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    Except we've seen them say nary a word to each other in six entire years, while in Universe it's been... Two whole years? Wiki is listing Ruby has 17 and the rest of the team at 19, so I guess?

    VolantRedX said:
    I mean he certainly fails to take no for an answer, but by that logic a large number of protagonists in fiction are misogynists. Is Jaune any different from Timmy Turner, Danny Fenton, or even Naruto? They all chase after girls who do nothing but shoot them down. Danny even lies and manipulates Pauline in order to score dates with her. Naruto fails to take a hint despite being outright assaulted by Sakura.

    As an aside, we actually don't know anything about what Saphron was like when she was a teenager. For all, we know she's the one who told him not to take no for an answer and just hope for the best. Just because she now has a wife and child means nothing really. I mean Pyrrha was in love with Jaune when he was at his most insufferable. It could be the same situation with Terra and Saphron. Being a lesbian doesn't imply anything about her behavior.

    As for Blake and Yang, it's been pretty well hinted that the teams have interacted more often than was shown to us. If nothing else they've spent days if not weeks in the same house in Haven so it'd be odd if they didn't talk even once. Though it does raise the question as to why Blake and Yang are so awkward around each other. I'll chalk that one up to poor writing.
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    Ah yes, the time-tested "we didn't get any hint of it throughout the entire series so it might hypothetically be true, therefore it is an ironclad defense" argument.

    Also just because it is a overused Trope doesn't mean that this series is any less guilty of it. People were calling out that sort of behavior way back when volumes 1 & 2 first aired. Plus it's pretty damning for him to explicitly yell that he lied after promising to not sing.

    Slater said:
    Blake and Yang are so awkward around each other because of the reasons Yang said to Weiss in there convo last volume, like regardless of shipping that relationship isnt really like the others. It wasn't just being apart from each other, they were both marked or maimed by the same man within moments of each other, and then a separation that amplified both of there own issues in running away vs being abandoned.

    The fact that that hasn't healed yet is not bad writing, there was far more trauma involved in that then in any of the other relationships.

    You also cant forget that JNPR knew about Blake being a faunus by the time V2 started, the teams were clearly spending alot of time becoming close to each other in between volumes. (Something the video game, Light Novels and Manga show)
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    Show, not tell. Show us that they are friends, and don't tell us they are friends.
     
    thesevenwielder said:
    What is the most amusing is the absurd lengths BB fans will go to to defend their ship. It's almost amusing in how pathetic it is.



    Except we've seen them say nary a word to each other in six entire years, while in Universe it's been... Two whole years? Wiki is listing Ruby has 17 and the rest of the team at 19, so I guess?


    Ah yes, the time-tested "we didn't get any hint of it throughout the entire series so it might hypothetically be true, therefore it is an ironclad defense" argument.

    Also just because it is a overused Trope doesn't mean that this series is any less guilty of it. People were calling out that sort of behavior way back when volumes 1 & 2 first aired. Plus it's pretty damning for him to explicitly yell that he lied after promising to not sing.


    Show, not tell. Show us that they are friends, and don't tell us they are friends.
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    I'm not saying it's iron clad, just that it makes more sense logically that they are friends. It's called conversion of storytelling. Sometimes as a view you have to assume things happened if the reverse makes no logical sense. You are right that they should have done something to show us them becoming friends, but just through context it makes sense that they are at least a little close.

    Edit: As for Jaune I'm not arguing he isn't a shit heel, just that he isn't also a sexist. He can be a shit heel without also being a sexist.
     
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    VolantRedX said:
    As for Blake and Yang, it's been pretty well hinted that the teams have interacted more often than was shown to us. If nothing else they've spent days if not weeks in the same house in Haven so it'd be odd if they didn't talk even once. Though it does raise the question as to why Blake and Yang are so awkward around each other. I'll chalk that one up to poor writing.
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    The reason why thing are awkward with each other is that Blake is accidentally undermining Yang recovery from her traumatic experience. For someone whose whole identity is about fighting being maimed rendered helpless attacks her identity at its core. Accepting her metal arm and going looking for Ruby was important because also meat take back her identity which big important step to her recovery. The problem is that because of her guilty Blake keeps trying to do things like help Yang with simple tasks which she do by herself and pleading to protect which Yang doesn't need opens up those wounds of being maimed rendered helpless.

    That isn't to say that Yang doesn't need or could use help but what she needs someone she can talk to about her issue and experience, not a caretaker which Blake is trying be. So until ethier Blake realizes what is doing or Yang just tell us things will remain awkward between them.
     
    5power said:
    The reason why thing are awkward with each other is that Blake is accidentally undermining Yang recovery from her traumatic experience. For someone whose whole identity is about fighting being maimed rendered helpless attacks her identity at its core. Accepting her metal arm and going looking for Ruby was important because also meat take back her identity which big important step to her recovery. The problem is that because of her guilty Blake keeps trying to do things like help Yang with simple tasks which she do by herself and pleading to protect which Yang doesn't need opens up those wounds of being maimed rendered helpless.

    That isn't to say that Yang doesn't need or could use help but what she needs someone she can talk to about her issue and experience, not a caretaker which Blake is trying be. So until ethier Blake realizes what is doing or Yang just tell us things will remain awkward between them.
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    My issue is that Blake and Yang are acting like It's been at most a week since their reunion but it's supposed to be several weeks.
     
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