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RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • VolantRedX said:
    Honestly it's sort of irrelevant what Monty's inspiration was. He doesn't really have any say in the show anymore.
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    I agree. Which is why I am skeptical whenever I see RT say they are trying to do right by Monty. It's like "bitch you guys have been writing your own shit and discarding his notes for years." That's not what I would call being respectful to the man's memory.




    All that aside I wonder if Penny being a redhead was an intentional nod to the joke that Gingers have no soul.
     
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    thesevenwielder said:
    I agree. Which is why I am skeptical whenever I see RT say they are trying to do right by Monty. It's like "bitch you guys have been writing your own shit and discarding his notes for years." That's not what I would call being respectful to the man's memory.
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    I mean to be fair the things people most complain about improved after the man's death. Like it was under his direction and writing where things like Jaune's spotlight stealing, the lack of nuance in the White Fang, the inconsistent lore, and the constant introduction of new characters who show up for a quick fight and then vanish all happened. By all accounts Monty's notes were scattershot, incomplete and largely not really enough to build a story off of, almost as if the man died suddenly in his youth with no warning. Monty was by all accounts a genius when it came to 3d animation and character design and he seemed like a really cool guy, but he was not much of a writer or worldbuilder and it shows.

    thesevenwielder said:
    All that aside I wonder if Penny being a redhead was an intentional nod to the joke that Gingers have no soul.
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    It's likely because it goes well with the rest of her color scheme. After all the whole point of Penny is that she does posses a soul.
     
    VolantRedX said:
    I mean to be fair the things people most complain about improved after the man's death. Like it was under his direction and writing where things like Jaune's spotlight stealing, the lack of nuance in the White Fang, the inconsistent lore, and the constant introduction of new characters who show up for a quick fight and then vanish all happened. By all accounts Monty's notes were scattershot, incomplete and largely not really enough to build a story off of, almost as if the man died suddenly in his youth with no warning. Monty was by all accounts a genius when it came to 3d animation and character design and he seemed like a really cool guy, but he was not much of a writer or worldbuilder and it shows.
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    Um... there's still little to no nuance with the White Fang, Jaune still steals the spotlight, characters with cool designs show up once or twice and are never seen again, and the lore is as inconsistent as ever. None of those things actually improved.
     
    thesevenwielder said:
    Um... there's still little to no nuance with the White Fang, Jaune still steals the spotlight, characters with cool designs show up once or twice and are never seen again, and the lore is as inconsistent as ever. None of those things actually improved.
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    We see a lot more nuance with the White Fang now than back when they were faceless mooks. We have Illia to show that not everyone in the Fang is a total lunatic but driven by actual issues, while Sienna and Adam show that even with the violent assholes on top there is a difference between killing for a cause and killing just because you're a sociopath.

    Jaune's screen time has drastically gone down with each volume. I know you personally take issue with his freak out over Cinder, but not only was he totally impotent in that moment it was the first meaningful thing he did in the whole volume. I don't even remember if he had a scene that wasn't a massive group scene in Volume 5.

    The characters have actually also been pretty slowed down as well with each Volume ending with more focus on RWBY and JN_R over a bunch of new characters.
     
    thesevenwielder said:
    Um... there's still little to no nuance with the White Fang, Jaune still steals the spotlight, characters with cool designs show up once or twice and are never seen again, and the lore is as inconsistent as ever. None of those things actually improved.
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    Do you actually watch the show or just keep up with the complaint bandwagon without fact-checking?
     
    Strypgia said:
    Rule 3 is still on the books. Do better.
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    I... am being civil though? It's a legitimate question. He hates the show so much I'm not actually sure if he watches it. If we want incivility, there's several times where he's attacked the person rather than the argument. I can go fetch quotes, if you'd like?
     
    This is the gentle advisory to chill
  • Staff Post
    • WhoAmEye said:
    I... am being civil though? It's a legitimate question. He hates the show so much I'm not actually sure if he watches it. If we want incivility, there's several times where he's attacked the person rather than the argument. I can go fetch quotes, if you'd like?
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    Funny enough, I read the thread. And I see a lot of people spending more time going 'Oh, it's thesevenwielder' than anything polite. So this is the gentle advisory to chill, for everyone.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • Strypgia said:
    Funny enough, I read the thread. And I see a lot of people spending more time going 'Oh, it's thesevenwielder' than anything polite.
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    He does have an extensive and disruptive post history.

    Wish I had a comment to make to put us back on topic, but I honestly can't think of anything. Has any new info come out since that teaser trailer?
     
    WhoAmEye said:
    He does have an extensive and disruptive post history.

    Wish I had a comment to make to put us back on topic, but I honestly can't think of anything. Has any new info come out since that teaser trailer?
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    Apparently we're going to be getting some soundtrack related stuff soon as the main singer has been posting stuff on her Twitter to get people hype. There is also a CFVY book coming out at some point.
     
    WhoAmEye said:
    Do you actually watch the show or just keep up with the complaint bandwagon without fact-checking?
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    In his defense though, a lot of those complaints have some sort of base with them. It's just very subjective. Like, the kind where you can go "have we watched the same show" only to realize that you have, it's just that it's through a different lens.

    Those who watched Blake's story line with the lens of her being worst girl or that the White Fang subplot is lacking will see her as abusive and the White Fang subplot to be a naive "hold hands and everything will be better" story, whereas someone who watched the line through the lens of the opposite (Blake's best girl and the White Fang storyline's well done) will see little to no flaws with the story line. It's all about perspective.

    I get where he's coming from with these complaints. Especially with the last two items. Sienna Khan, a character with a cool design, never even fought before the Adam Trailer rectified that and then there's the whole bird issue.
     
    So, someone over on the RWBY reddit asked what villains do you want to get more backstory/depth to them in V6? Besides being curious to hear your thoughts on this, I thought I'd share my thoughts on this as well.


    All of them. But especially:


    Cinder:
    Only if she's coming back soon- if not save that until she returns. And if she's not coming back at all-which I doubt- maybe a little detail would be nice, but I'd rather save as much time as possible for the heroes and the antagonists who still matter.


    Leo:
    At least a little bit here, since he's dead- no need to really do a lot of backstory. But I'd still like to know why Ozpin trusted him and how he met Salem.


    Salem:
    I get Roosterteeth is trying to keep her a mystery, but least give us some idea of her backstory and why she wants the Relics. To use them? To destroy them? Is she just a very old Grimm or was she once human? Does she have any magical abilities?


    Raven:
    Not that she's really an antagonist anymore and I don't think RT can undo making her more of a pathetic edgelord then freakin' ADAM, but something would be nice.


    Speaking of Adam, I don't think you really can do anything with his backstory. Roosterteeth seems fully committed to the idea that Adam was always a manipulative and abusive shit; and that Blake was simply blind to the sort of person he was from the start.
     
    DarthDakka said:
    Speaking of Adam, I don't think you really can do anything with his backstory. Roosterteeth seems fully committed to the idea that Adam was always a manipulative and abusive shit; and that Blake was simply blind to the sort of person he was from the start.
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    I mean, I'd say less 'blind' and more manipulated but I'll freely admit I am OK with this and think it makes perfect sense.

    I'd love it if it turned out Leo sold out Faunus during the Faunus Rights Revolution and that convinced Ozpin he was loyal but in truth it was just an example of his cowardice and self serving nature that Salem exploited.

    I'd be interested in learning more about Salem but only from herself as I don't really trust Ozpin myself.

    Also Tyrien of all people cos I wanna know how he met Salem and came to worship her.

    And I assume we're gonna get Watts but that is just a guess.
     
    Zam said:
    I mean, I'd say less 'blind' and more manipulated but I'll freely admit I am OK with this and think it makes perfect sense.

    I'd love it if it turned out Leo sold out Faunus during the Faunus Rights Revolution and that convinced Ozpin he was loyal but in truth it was just an example of his cowardice and self serving nature that Salem exploited.

    I'd be interested in learning more about Salem but only from herself as I don't really trust Ozpin myself.

    Also Tyrien of all people cos I wanna know how he met Salem and came to worship her.

    And I assume we're gonna get Watts but that is just a guess.
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    See I honestly prefer the idea that at one point Lionheart was a skilled and brave huntsmen. That he slowly succumbed to fear and hopelessness which lead him to seeking out Salem for protection. Someone being a weaselly little shit is a lot less interesting than a fall from grace.
     
    VolantRedX said:
    See I honestly prefer the idea that at one point Lionheart was a skilled and brave huntsmen. That he slowly succumbed to fear and hopelessness which lead him to seeking out Salem for protection. Someone being a weaselly little shit is a lot less interesting than a fall from grace.
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    That is definitely a fair take.

    I think I like it in this case more for what it says about the world than the character if that makes sense? As where your take is more about showing the character and his fall.
     
    VolantRedX said:
    See I honestly prefer the idea that at one point Lionheart was a skilled and brave huntsmen. That he slowly succumbed to fear and hopelessness which lead him to seeking out Salem for protection. Someone being a weaselly little shit is a lot less interesting than a fall from grace.
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    I prefer that interpretation, too, because it would fit with something that seemed to be a running them in Volume 5. Namely, that all the strength and power in the world can't make you brave. Raven is one of the most powerful fighters in the entire show, Leo has the power of an entire kingdom's worth of Huntsmen and Huntresses at his fingertips, Adam has proven an extremely deadly fighter. But all three of them turn coward the moment they aren't in a position of absolute strength; their strength and power comes to nothing, because none of them are ever willing to take a stand without being forced unless all the cards are in their hands and the threat against them is negligible.

    Yang's speech at the end, I think, is to hammer that point home. Raven's notions of strength are ultimately shallow and wishy-washy; she's a coward desperately scrabbling for power to try to feel safe, which means it's pretty much entirely wasted on her.
     
    Leingod said:
    I prefer that interpretation, too, because it would fit with something that seemed to be a running them in Volume 5. Namely, that all the strength and power in the world can't make you brave. Raven is one of the most powerful fighters in the entire show, Leo has the power of an entire kingdom's worth of Huntsmen and Huntresses at his fingertips, Adam has proven an extremely deadly fighter. But all three of them turn coward the moment they aren't in a position of absolute strength; their strength and power comes to nothing, because none of them are ever willing to take a stand without being forced unless all the cards are in their hands and the threat against them is negligible.

    Yang's speech at the end, I think, is to hammer that point home. Raven's notions of strength are ultimately shallow and wishy-washy; she's a coward desperately scrabbling for power to try to feel safe, which means it's pretty much entirely wasted on her.
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    To be fair to Adam, he was outnumber about 8 to 1. So less cowardice and more pragmatism. Besides, I think it says something about him that he was wholly willing to die for his cause and so long as he got to kill most of his enemies. That's spite.
     
    DarthDakka said:
    To be fair to Adam, he was outnumber about 8 to 1. So less cowardice and more pragmatism. Besides, I think it says something about him that he was wholly willing to die for his cause and so long as he got to kill most of his enemies. That's spite.
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    True. Perhaps the better example would be in the flashback episode of Volume 3, where the moment a half-Maiden Cinder threatens him he folds like paper and even bullies his own subordinates into line for her plan, and then during the Fall of Beacon instead of going out on the front lines with his men he's tooling around, picking off stragglers in the cafeteria until Blake shows up.

    Adam is totally capable of making suicidal moves when he's pushed into a corner and pissed off, because he's a spiteful man-child. But outside of that kind of situation, looking at his behavior throughout the series makes him come off to me as someone who never wants to commit to an attack unless he's sure he'll win (and is kind of bad at judging that sometimes).

    It's interesting, because at first he comes off as "Edgelord Vergil" with his fighting style, but he actually subverts that expectation IMO. Rather than an unstoppable badass who's always cool in the face of danger, he's essentially an ambush predator who vastly prefers quickly taking you out in one swing with an alpha strike to a stand-up fight and then toying with you at his leisure, which has the effect of making him look extremely dangerous and threatening in a situation that actually favors that fighting style, but leads to him getting completely punked once the rug gets pulled out from under him. Blake even seems to consider him most dangerous when he's running away, because it gives him the chance to divide and conquer, turning retreat into ambush and putting the fight back on his own terms.

    And I think this is intentional, because a lot of villains in RWBY seem to be following this pattern of appearing a lot more powerful and in-control at first glance than they actually are once the situation isn't set up in their favor and they're the ones on the back foot for once. I think that's what the finale of Volume 5 was going for (arguments as to how well it executed this are something we don't need to resurrect, so let's leave it at "your mileage may vary tremendously"); it was the big reversal of the first three Volumes where our heroes never knew what the hell was happening and the villains were always one step ahead. This time it's the villains who are taken apart systematically by their internal squabbles and lack of information.
     
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    Zam said:
    I mean, I'd say less 'blind' and more manipulated but I'll freely admit I am OK with this and think it makes perfect sense.

    I'd love it if it turned out Leo sold out Faunus during the Faunus Rights Revolution and that convinced Ozpin he was loyal but in truth it was just an example of his cowardice and self serving nature that Salem exploited.

    I'd be interested in learning more about Salem but only from herself as I don't really trust Ozpin myself.

    Also Tyrien of all people cos I wanna know how he met Salem and came to worship her.

    And I assume we're gonna get Watts but that is just a guess.
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    I'm not. RWBY desperately needs some interesting villains. Having Adam- or any of the other antagonists for that matter- be a well-intentioned person who got eaten up by his own hate would have been much more interesting and impactfull for the story. Plus, I feel like RWBY needs some shades of gray right now. As all we've got so far are heroic people, cowards and evil people. And the evil people either want power because reasons, want revenge for the stupidist reason possible or seem to just be evil for evil's sake.

    Some moral ambiguity would actually work wonders for the setting and story. Plus, having villains with genuine moral ambiguity would give Team RWBY, and Ruby herself, an adversary that can really challenge their beliefs and can't just be dismissed as evil.

    Oh god, I'd love this back story or something like it for Leo. Not saying that it should be 100% cowardice, but that it did play some part in what he did.

    Oh same here with Salem. That said, if we do get something from Ozpin, it should be contrasted by something Salem says to one of her subordinates. Leaving us to wonder who is telling the truth here. Note though that I'd only do this particular trick once. Pulling that over and over would just annoy the viewers and get tedious.

    Just my opinion here, but I could care less about Tyrien's back story. To me, he's just another crazy villian, and those just don't interest me. Plus, I think lerning about his backstory would just make his character less interesting.

    Watts in my opinion is more or less fine how he is. We know he's a disgraced Atleasian scientist. That's really all we need to know about him.

    Leingod said:
    I prefer that interpretation, too, because it would fit with something that seemed to be a running them in Volume 5. Namely, that all the strength and power in the world can't make you brave. Raven is one of the most powerful fighters in the entire show, Leo has the power of an entire kingdom's worth of Huntsmen and Huntresses at his fingertips, Adam has proven an extremely deadly fighter. But all three of them turn coward the moment they aren't in a position of absolute strength; their strength and power comes to nothing, because none of them are ever willing to take a stand without being forced unless all the cards are in their hands and the threat against them is negligible.

    Yang's speech at the end, I think, is to hammer that point home. Raven's notions of strength are ultimately shallow and wishy-washy; she's a coward desperately scrabbling for power to try to feel safe, which means it's pretty much entirely wasted on her.
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    To jump back to this for a movement, I honestly feel that idea would just be fine if the writers had confined it to Leo or Raven. Even both of them could have worked if the characters had a little more depth.

    Doing it with Leo, Raven and Adam just comes across as preachy. Or worse. Unimaginative. Almost as if the writers just wanted to rush out the scene with little care for the characters role in the plot. Because right now, we've got a bunch of pathetic losers for antagonists outside of Salem. And we all know that team RWBY aren't going to be facing her anytime soon. Which results in a story that is neither interesting or tense. The fact the Volume 5 final pretty much had the heroes kicking the villains asses, despite the villains having the element of surprise, doesn't help. Salem's cabal are now not only unitimidating because of their ideology and motivations, but physically unintimidating. They're dime-a-dozen cartoon villains with about as much punch.

    Leingod said:
    True. Perhaps the better example would be in the flashback episode of Volume 3, where the moment a half-Maiden Cinder threatens him he folds like paper and even bullies his own subordinates into line for her plan, and then during the Fall of Beacon instead of going out on the front lines with his men he's tooling around, picking off stragglers in the cafeteria until Blake shows up.

    Adam is totally capable of making suicidal moves when he's pushed into a corner and pissed off, because he's a spiteful man-child. But outside of that kind of situation, looking at his behavior throughout the series makes him come off to me as someone who never wants to commit to an attack unless he's sure he'll win (and is kind of bad at judging that sometimes).

    It's interesting, because at first he comes off as "Edgelord Vergil" with his fighting style, but he actually subverts that expectation IMO. Rather than an unstoppable badass who's always cool in the face of danger, he's essentially an ambush predator who vastly prefers quickly taking you out in one swing with an alpha strike to a stand-up fight and then toying with you at his leisure, which has the effect of making him look extremely dangerous and threatening in a situation that actually favors that fighting style, but leads to him getting completely punked once the rug gets pulled out from under him. Blake even seems to consider him most dangerous when he's running away, because it gives him the chance to divide and conquer, turning retreat into ambush and putting the fight back on his own terms.

    And I think this is intentional, because a lot of villains in RWBY seem to be following this pattern of appearing a lot more powerful and in-control at first glance than they actually are once the situation isn't set up in their favor and they're the ones on the back foot for once. I think that's what the finale of Volume 5 was going for (arguments as to how well it executed this are something we don't need to resurrect, so let's leave it at "your mileage may vary tremendously"); it was the big reversal of the first three Volumes where our heroes never knew what the hell was happening and the villains were always one step ahead. This time it's the villains who are taken apart systematically by their internal squabbles and lack of information.
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    While this might be true, I stand by my earlier comment that when combined with the showings of the rest of RWBY's antagonists it doesn't make for an interesting story.
     
    DarthDakka said:
    want revenge for the stupidist reason possible
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    This I am going to slightly disagree with since I feel that Ozpin just gave Oscar the Abridged version of the events in question but there was a lot more going on and that is what really pissed off Hazel, that Ozpin just wrote off his sisters death so easily as "Just a training accident".
    DarthDakka said:
    Just my opinion here, but I could care less about Tyrien's back story. To me, he's just another crazy villain, and those just don't interest me. Plus, I think learning about his backstory would just make his character less interesting.
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    Tyrien though actually does interest me since he sees Salem as a goddess to the point that her mere disappointment in him breaks him. What is the story behind that why did he choose to go along with her and what actions did she preform that made him think of her as a goddess given flesh. Plus it would give us a good ballpark for Salems power level compared to everyone else in the story.
     
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    DarthDakka said:
    I'm not. RWBY desperately needs some interesting villains. Having Adam- or any of the other antagonists for that matter- be a well-intentioned person who got eaten up by his own hate would have been much more interesting and impactfull for the story. Plus, I feel like RWBY needs some shades of gray right now. As all we've got so far are heroic people, cowards and evil people. And the evil people either want power because reasons, want revenge for the stupidist reason possible or seem to just be evil for evil's sake.

    Some moral ambiguity would actually work wonders for the setting and story. Plus, having villains with genuine moral ambiguity would give Team RWBY, and Ruby herself, an adversary that can really challenge their beliefs and can't just be dismissed as evil.

    Oh god, I'd love this back story or something like it for Leo. Not saying that it should be 100% cowardice, but that it did play some part in what he did.

    Oh same here with Salem. That said, if we do get something from Ozpin, it should be contrasted by something Salem says to one of her subordinates. Leaving us to wonder who is telling the truth here. Note though that I'd only do this particular trick once. Pulling that over and over would just annoy the viewers and get tedious.

    Just my opinion here, but I could care less about Tyrien's back story. To me, he's just another crazy villian, and those just don't interest me. Plus, I think lerning about his backstory would just make his character less interesting.

    Watts in my opinion is more or less fine how he is. We know he's a disgraced Atleasian scientist. That's really all we need to know about him.
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    Sure I get you well on that front, I just find the phrasing kind of off because I cannot comprehend the idea of them ever having not been committed to the idea of Adam being a tool given he was introduced deceiving and manipulating Blake in a bid to make her a party to a pointless mass murder he was likely breaking ranks to commit anyway.

    I'm still hoping Ozpin, Qrow and the like end up becoming a problem RWBY needs to cut themselves off from XD

    Yeah that seems like a solid idea there, especially given the emphasis on the manipulation of facts and lies seen in RWBY before now.

    That's fair, I'd be OK with more sympathetic myself but that's cos I HC him as having been a Hunter whose team got abandonded out in the deep wilderness and they kept being driven deeper and deeper waiting for aid as they were slowly cut down to nothing. Tyrien tried to keep his and their spirits up and avoid the Grimm with increasing 'off' humor that has become his brand.

    Yeah he doesn't interest me much either.
    Tython82 said:
    This I am going to slightly disagree with since I feel that Ozpin just gave Oscar the Abridged version of the events in question but there was a lot more going on and that is what really pissed off Hazel, that Ozpin just wrote off his sisters death so easily as "Just a training accident".
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    Yeah I find Ozpin's summary rather suspect all things considered and he plus his crew have a habit of... charitably interpreting their use of students that leaves them devoid of responsibility because "They made their choice"
     
    VolantRedX said:
    We see a lot more nuance with the White Fang now than back when they were faceless mooks. We have Illia to show that not everyone in the Fang is a total lunatic but driven by actual issues, while Sienna and Adam show that even with the violent assholes on top there is a difference between killing for a cause and killing just because you're a sociopath.

    Jaune's screen time has drastically gone down with each volume. I know you personally take issue with his freak out over Cinder, but not only was he totally impotent in that moment it was the first meaningful thing he did in the whole volume. I don't even remember if he had a scene that wasn't a massive group scene in Volume 5.

    The characters have actually also been pretty slowed down as well with each Volume ending with more focus on RWBY and JN_R over a bunch of new characters.
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    1. Ilya is only a single character. And her 'redemption' was rushed and unconvincing. She was 100% into murdering Blake's parents and dragging her back to Adam until... I guess she suddenly wasn't. Sienna is no deeper than Adam. Literally none of her lines were about the unnecessary loss of life, or the death of an institution to protect everyone from the Grimm. Her only concern was that Adam might have started a fight he couldn't finish. I dare you to find any quotes that say otherwise. And even if she was deeper (which she isn't) she exists for maybe 5 minutes before getting offed.

    2. To twist an old phrase, it's not how much screentime you have, it's what you do with it. Jaune's screentime has maybe lessened, but his importance and taking over the plot hasn't changed in the slightest. In volume 4, there are two separate times Jaune takes away from what should be a moment to develop Ruby's character in order to focus on him.
    • First is when Ruby dreams of Pyrrha's last moments. We see her climb out of bed and maybe we could finally see her cope. Instead we focus on Jaune training with some of Pyrrha's recordings. So nope, not addressing Ruby's issues.
    • Second in volume 4 is when Ruby finally starts talking to Jaune about Pyrrha's death and how she feels guilty for making them all come with her. Instead of addressing Ruby's issues, Jaune starts talking about himself and how they all wanted to come with. It all comes back to Jaune
    Then we get to volume 5. Suddenly Jaune needs to be trained by Ozpin to unlock his Semblance. Which amounts to Jack and Shit because Weiss needs to take a fall later on. But I'm getting ahead of myself. Notice that Ozpin didn't address Ren or Nora and tell them things they had to work on. Like maybe stamina-building for Ren or more self-control for Nora. Nope, instead it's all about Jaune. Oh, and giving Ruby a weakness she literally never had before. Much like Yang and her 'overusing her Semblance' or whatever.
    Then the piece de resistance, the 'Battle' for Haven.
    • Cinder just completely ignores Ruby, her original target, to focus on toying with Jaune instead of just knocking him out of the way.
    • Then we have Ruby react to Jaune getting knocked down and activating her silver eyes, rather than Weiss who is getting her ass kicked just as hard.
    • Speaking of Weiss, her forgetting about her powers and taking a dive just so Jaune can unlock his Semblance.
    Seriously, Weiss taking a fall for Jaune

    White Trailer

    Volume 2

    Volume 5
     
    thesevenwielder said:
    2. To twist an old phrase, it's not how much screentime you have, it's what you do with it. Jaune's screentime has maybe lessened, but his importance and taking over the plot hasn't changed in the slightest. In volume 4, there are two separate times Jaune takes away from what should be a moment to develop Ruby's character in order to focus on him.
    • First is when Ruby dreams of Pyrrha's last moments. We see her climb out of bed and maybe we could finally see her cope. Instead we focus on Jaune training with some of Pyrrha's recordings. So nope, not addressing Ruby's issues.
    • Second in volume 4 is when Ruby finally starts talking to Jaune about Pyrrha's death and how she feels guilty for making them all come with her. Instead of addressing Ruby's issues, Jaune starts talking about himself and how they all wanted to come with. It all comes back to Jaune
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    Or it could be because a major amount of volume 4 is about how you don't get to make your friends' choices for them. Sun and Blake's entire theme is about how her running from them is more painful than anything that could happen because they choose to follow her. Thus the scene with Jaune arguing that they chose to come with her is just reinforcing that theme. It ties into the overall narrative a lot better than having Ruby play the martyr card that is so common in modern fantasy fiction.

    As to your first point that scene is clearly meant to show how badly the loss of Pyrrha effected everyone. That it's not just Ruby and it's what leads her to make a point to Jaune about how she didn't want to let anyone else get hurt.

    thesevenwielder said:
    Then we get to volume 5. Suddenly Jaune needs to be trained by Ozpin to unlock his Semblance. Which amounts to Jack and Shit because Weiss needs to take a fall later on. But I'm getting ahead of myself. Notice that Ozpin didn't address Ren or Nora and tell them things they had to work on. Like maybe stamina-building for Ren or more self-control for Nora. Nope, instead it's all about Jaune. Oh, and giving Ruby a weakness she literally never had before. Much like Yang and her 'overusing her Semblance' or whatever.
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    You're the one who is constantly complaining that Jaune is a useless moron that isn't fit to lick the boots of the rest of the cast so when it's out right said he needs more work than anyone else to be useful suddenly it's a problem? The whole point of that scene is that Jaune's starting point is far behind everyone else, thus he needs the most individual attention. He's group in with the literally untrained child Ozpin is possessing. Also what relevance is Ruby needing work with hand to hand combat relevant at all? It seems like that digression undercuts your own point. You want other people like Ren and Nora to get trained in things that are never said to be an issue but when Ruby is meant to train in something suddenly that's a massive betrayal?

    thesevenwielder said:
    Then the piece de resistance, the 'Battle' for Haven.
    • Cinder just completely ignores Ruby, her original target, to focus on toying with Jaune instead of just knocking him out of the way.
    • Then we have Ruby react to Jaune getting knocked down and activating her silver eyes, rather than Weiss who is getting her ass kicked just as hard.
    • Speaking of Weiss, her forgetting about her powers and taking a dive just so Jaune can unlock his Semblance.
    Seriously, Weiss taking a fall for Jaune
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    Ok good point there, that was sort of over done.
     
    thesevenwielder said:
    Seriously, Weiss taking a fall for Jaune
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    Please note that those fights are 1v1 encounters not the battle royal with High level oppponets all around that was the battle for Haven. So what it really comes down to is that Weiss was so focused on Vernal that she did not see Cinder aiming for her.
    Edit: It's practically a rule in these kind of fights to keep track of your surroundings.
     
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    Tython82 said:
    Please note that those fights are 1v1 encounters not the battle royal with High level oppponets all around that was the battle for Haven. So what it really comes down to is that Weiss was so focused on Vernal she did not see Cinder aiming for her.
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    Oh no, he isn't talking about Cinder blindsiding her. It was the entire fight before that moment where it might as well have been 1v1.

    I'm gonna agree with thesevenwielder on Weiss jobbing hard. Because god damn we've seen this girl fight before. Watch this for example.



    I can't tell if they nerfed her abilities or if they just forgot. The subtleblunt shift in everyone's combat ability has bugged the fuck out of me for the longest time. Only Yang's fighting style remains mostly unchanged and that's not much of plus when she's mostly hand to hand.

    thesevenwielder said:
    Oh, and giving Ruby a weakness she literally never had before. Much like Yang and her 'overusing her Semblance' or whatever.
    Then the piece de resistance, the 'Battle' for Haven.
    • Cinder just completely ignores Ruby, her original target, to focus on toying with Jaune instead of just knocking him out of the way.
    • Then we have Ruby react to Jaune getting knocked down and activating her silver eyes, rather than Weiss who is getting her ass kicked just as hard.
    • Speaking of Weiss, her forgetting about her powers and taking a dive just so Jaune can unlock his Semblance.
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    Ruby has had the weakness since about Volume 3 which was the episode "PvP" where she was attempting to get past Mercury. It's not that hard to believe she has issues with hand to hand. She's a weapon nut so her being unable to properly fight without her weapon seems like a logical conclusion. I will agree that its a strange thing to focus on for her. Ruby doesn't really need to know how to fight hand to hand because she's never going to beat someone like Mercury or Yang. At best she just needs to know some basics so that she isn't completely out of her element. Of course, her super speed makes this a bit irrelevant since she can disengage pretty damn well if she's disarmed and is being overwhelmed. Which happened in the the same episode I mentioned earlier. Imagine that.

    Yang's issue is that she relies on her semblance to be a clutch factor. There's nothing wrong with having a clutch move, it only becomes an issue when its your go to for everything. If she doesn't mind taking damage because of her semblance then she might take hits she could potentially avoid because her semblance will make up for it but what if she gets knocked out or is too injured to fight? When Taiyang calls her semblance a "temper tantrum" I thought he was being kind of a dick but it does activate prematurely when she's angry. So maybe the criticism is to not rely on her semblance and that she needs to remain calm even when prodded. This culminates in her ignoring Mercury at the end of Volume 5 to chase her mother. I will say that the payoff was kind of weak because that group battle was disappointing but it was a payoff nonetheless.

    Finally, Cinder ignored Ruby because Jaune decided to make himself a target by charging her and although Cinder hates Ruby she probably enjoys torturing people she deems lesser than her. Besides, Emerald had Ruby handled.
     
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