RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

[kokuenDG]

so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.

 

[The Narrator]

BTW, getting rid of Sun? Even worse than getting rid of Ilya.

Click to shrink...

I can't agree with this in the slightest. Sun is a waste of space that I'll be glad to be rid of. As a character, he doesn't really have any motivation beyond wanting into Blake's pants and doesn't really serve a purpose in the story besides adding some tiresome comedy hijinks. I don't think having him in the last couple Volumes added anything of value, and I don't think that having him around for another Volume would, either. Nor is there anything "arbitrary" about him staying in Mistral, the place where he lived and was attending school before all this started and where his friends are; if anything, he should have gone back there after the Fall of Beacon with everyone else.

 

[VolantRedX]

Yeah, M&K basically confirmed that they will continue to bait and tease the BB fans by making Sun stay behind for... reasons so now they can string along BB shippers. According to the recent AMA or whatever, the opening episode will even go so far as to have Blake kiss Sun on the cheek in farewell. It's pretty shady of the writers. Heaven forfend they actually commit to a pairing. It would make all the toxic BB shippers leave the show. Problem is, people can only take so much queer baiting before finally getting fed up, and the writers are toeing a fine line that could easily backfire and make things even worse than if they just confirmed a pairing.

BTW, getting rid of Sun? Even worse than getting rid of Ilya. By now it's been explicitly established that he's there for Blake, and having him arbitrarily stay behind is shit writing. His team hasn't mattered in the slightest since he was introduced. He spent only a few scenes with Neptune, none with the rest of his team outside the single tournament fight, and ditched them even back as far as volume 1. Which isn't necessarily a mark against him; at most he's spent a few weeks with his team before deciding to leave for Vale early. Hard to develop much of an attachment in that time. But when he's loyal, he stays loyal. Which the writers are just tossing to tease the Bees some more.

Click to shrink...

I think it works with Sun's motivation for following Blake. He knew she was in a bad way and needed a friend. Now that she's back with RWBY he can focus on his friends knowing that she has her team to support her.

 

[Gaz]

Random thought, what if Penny's memories was saved via a cloud-storage like system, and they rebuilt her body? They could reinstall her old personalities and memories and bond with Ruby...and the group is going to Atlas, too...

 

[Sucal]

Random thought, what if Cinders Virus was saved via a cloud-storage like system, and they rebuilt Penny's body. They might think they could reinstall her old personalities and memories, only to receive the kill all humans order instead.... and the group is going to Atlas, too

 

[Psyga315]

I'm still holding out for more LBGT representation in the show, hopefully even among the main cast. Something tells me that I sadly shouldn't hold my breath, however.

Click to shrink...

Well, think about it like this:

Representation shouldn't drive the narrative. It should be a medium for the story instead.

 

[Zam]

Well, think about it like this:

Representation shouldn't drive the narrative. It should be a medium for the story instead.

Click to shrink...

No one said it should drive the narrative as far as I can tell and given no one ever questions straight cis gendered people people's 'necessity' or presence in the story or say they should be a medium for the story I intensely disagree.

 

[WhoAmEye]

No one said it should drive the narrative as far as I can tell and given no one ever questions straight cis gendered people people's 'necessity' or presence in the story or say they should be a medium for the story I intensely disagree.

Click to shrink...

I think it isn't questioned because that's like... what 90% of the planet is?

 

[Zam]

I think it isn't questioned because that's like... what 90% of the planet is?

Click to shrink...

There's a few things to address here, the first being I do not think that is an accurate representation of reality given how many LGBTQIAP+ live in denial or in secret for their own safety or are themselves so deep in denial they are unaware of it. The second being that even if it were true that has more to do with generation of marginalization, criminalization, murder, prejudice and denial which still runs rampant in the modern day.

Beyond that though, unless the story is specifically about being cis-het, a cis-het romance or those traits are some way relevant to the story, then there is literally no reason for a character to be cis gendered or straight over anything else because it doesn't serve the story or narrative any more than having blue eyes or brown hair does.

Finally, Remnant is a fictional setting, poly relationships could be the norm and the majority of the population be bi for all we know, or in nay world an author creates, so what is 'realistic' has no bearing on an entirely different world not governed by the very specific history that has tainted our own world.

 

[WhoAmEye]

Ohh, I see what you mean now.

I'm not defending it or anything, just saying it's probably not questioned when people are cis-het because that's usually the default assumed state until proven otherwise. Which, I suppose, is a bit of a problem in itself, yes.

Finally, Remnant is a fictional setting, poly relationships could be the norm and the majority of the population be bi for all we know, or in nay world an author creates, so what is 'realistic' has no bearing on an entirely different world not governed by the very specific history that has tainted our own world.

Click to shrink...

I would like to point out though that breeding is important. That in itself likely prompted a subtle societal focus on heterosexual relationships, perhaps even moreso than real life due to the Grimm threat.

edit: okay, nevermind, guess I did end up defending it? More LGBT representation is good, but if it can't be done well, maybe leaving the topic alone would be a smarter move for the writers

 

[Zam]

Ohh, I see what you mean now.

I'm not defending it or anything, just saying it's probably not questioned when people are cis-het because that's usually the default assumed state until proven otherwise. Which, I suppose, is a bit of a problem in itself, yes.

Click to shrink...

That's a fair point, but yeah as an argument against the inclusion of those who are not cis-het it generally just rankles me, apologies if I came across as aggressive and thanks for listening.

I would like to point out though that breeding is important. That in itself likely prompted a subtle societal focus on heterosexual relationships, perhaps even moreso than real life due to the Grimm threat.

edit: okay, nevermind, guess I did end up defending it? More LGBT representation is good, but if it can't be done well, maybe leaving the topic alone would be a smarter move for the writers

Click to shrink...

Not really, people can have sex with those they are not attracted to quite easily, its not fun but in terms of 'reproduction' its fairly simple.

Possibly but that is an entirely different topic to the one being discussed so I can't really say much, though my general view is that said authors should educate themselves or ask for outside help, more voices in the writing room is rarely bad in my eyes.

 

[WhoAmEye]

, more voices in the writing room is rarely bad in my eyes.

Click to shrink...

Having worked with a commissions writer and some particularly bad clients, I have to heavily disagree.
More educated voices in the writing room is rarely a bad thing. Just more voices? Bad. Usually very bad.

 

[Zam]

Having worked with a commissions writer and some particularly bad clients, I have to heavily disagree.
More educated voices in the writing room is rarely a bad thing. Just more voices? Bad. Usually very bad.

Click to shrink...

Point, though given just before that I said a writer should educate them-self I thought that the brought in voice knowing what their talking about was implied, sorry if that was not the case.

 

[Leingod]

For those of us who didn't watch the latest season of Chibi, what kind of gay jokes were made?

Click to shrink...

I wouldn't really call them "gay jokes," honestly. There's one episode where Penny just takes Ruby out to hang out in a field of fireflies that she's learned to communicate with at night and they act really sweet to each other and the jokes are stuff like the fireflies stealing Ruby's cookies and Ruby getting dizzy when they do the "spin around while holding hands" thing. Like, they're literally frolicking in a field while soft music plays and laying down next to each other and holding hands while Ruby makes a pun about Penny "lighting up her life" like a firefly.

Stuff like that. It's adorable.

 

[Gaz]

I wouldn't really call them "gay jokes," honestly. There's one episode where Penny just takes Ruby out to hang out in a field of fireflies that she's learned to communicate with at night and they act really sweet to each other and the jokes are stuff like the fireflies stealing Ruby's cookies and Ruby getting dizzy when they do the "spin around while holding hands" thing. Like, they're literally frolicking in a field while soft music plays and laying down next to each other and holding hands while Ruby makes a pun about Penny "lighting up her life" like a firefly.

Stuff like that. It's adorable.

Click to shrink...

That's way better than I was expecting and my concerns are alleviated.

 

[thesevenwielder]

I wouldn't really call them "gay jokes," honestly. There's one episode where Penny just takes Ruby out to hang out in a field of fireflies that she's learned to communicate with at night and they act really sweet to each other and the jokes are stuff like the fireflies stealing Ruby's cookies and Ruby getting dizzy when they do the "spin around while holding hands" thing. Like, they're literally frolicking in a field while soft music plays and laying down next to each other and holding hands while Ruby makes a pun about Penny "lighting up her life" like a firefly.

Stuff like that. It's adorable.

Click to shrink...

It almost makes you forget the godawful Winter and Qrow sketch they put in the preview.

 

[Strypgia]

Every couple of weeks thesevenwielder posts his complaints about the show and ignores or blows up at pretty much every response given to him that doesn't agree with him.

Click to shrink...

this is over Every few weeks, he makes a mild critique, and people get very nasty about responding, usually spending more time sniping at him than answering. And on the contrary, usually it is you or others blowing up at him. You are also under no compulsion to answer. So the next person who leads with a snipe at him for being less than happy with the show will be taking a break from the thread.

 

[WhoAmEye]

It's an interesting definition of mild, to be sure.

 

[Emma]

It's an interesting definition of mild, to be sure.

Click to shrink...

You aren't helping, you know?

Anyway, the world building itself suggests there should be less straight people in Remnant. Grimm are attracted to "negative" emotions right? Easy solution: encourage people to be happy and gay.

Not being gay means you're more likely to die, so get to it.

 

[SpeckofStardust]

Anyway, the world building itself suggests there should be less straight people in Remnant. Grimm are attracted to "negative" emotions right? Easy solution: encourage people to be happy and gay.

Click to shrink...

And the other hand people who get singled out are more likely to be attacked first.

 

[Emma]

And the other hand people who get singled out are more likely to be attacked first.

Click to shrink...

Again, that's solvable too. Just make it gayer.

 

[Gaz]

You'd think that Remnant would be a much more inclusive world, given the endless waves of vicious monsters that want to wipe out every single person alive, that also feed off negative emotion and cannot be reasoned with. Then again, racism against Faunus also exists...

 

[WhoAmEye]

You'd think that Remnant would be a much more inclusive world, given the endless waves of vicious monsters that want to wipe out every single person alive, that also feed off negative emotion and cannot be reasoned with. Then again, racism against Faunus also exists...

Click to shrink...

Humanity is nothing if not self-destructive.

 

[Emma]

You'd think that Remnant would be a much more inclusive world, given the endless waves of vicious monsters that want to wipe out every single person alive, that also feed off negative emotion and cannot be reasoned with. Then again, racism against Faunus also exists...

Click to shrink...

I... I'm not sure how I feel about this line of thinking. On one hand, I have no issue with making a point about the irrationality of tribalism, nationalism, racism, whatever, but on the other hand, the writers don't live in their setting, they create it. There's nothing stopping them from making the show more inclusive. Using an in-universe explanation for a writing decision like that just doesn't seem like the right way of looking at it, you know?

 

[WhoAmEye]

Using an in-universe explanation for a writing decision like that just doesn't seem like the right way of looking at it, you know?

Click to shrink...

That's like... the opposite of what you want. You definitely need an in-universe explanation for things. Build it from the ground up: your people came here, why did they build a settlement here? What hardships did they face living here? What impact did that have on their society?

I can see lesbians and gays and bi's and whatnot being a 'sure, whatever makes you happy' sort of thing rather than actively discriminated against like faunus, but not actively encouraged, maybe? (to expand, I mean more in a there's no issue with it, but there's no like 'hey you should lesbian' pushing or 'hey you should be straight' stuff) I know a lot of trans people face a lot of difficulty with the disphoria and stuff, but I'm not sure how much of that is societal pressure over just feeling like you're in the wrong body all the time.

 

[Emma]

That's like... the opposite of what you want. You definitely need an in-universe explanation for things.

Click to shrink...

You misunderstand me (which is fair, I didn't explain myself super well). When I said that, I meant that basically, writers shouldn't write themselves into a corner. And even if they do, it's on them to find a way out. If they want to have inclusivity, but they've (hypothetically) created a world that lends itself to fascists, then they shouldn't absolve themselves of responsibility to their goals because the decisions made earlier in the process created something unpleasant.

It's not the fault of the text for what it has or lacks- that's on the creators.