RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

[kokuenDG]

so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.

 

[Bea]

I kind of care! RWBY Chibi isn't the best thing ever but it's cute.

 

[VolantRedX]

I mean it's pretty clear that the RT crew are a lot more comfortable working with comedies than dramas.

 

[Emma]

Like, maybe they don't want to make new models, but I gotta wonder with these shorts if they regret getting rid of Roman and Neo.

 

[Mahrac]

Like, maybe they don't want to make new models, but I gotta wonder with these shorts if they regret getting rid of Roman and Neo.

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Roman.... maybe? He was actually supposed to die in volume 1 to begin with and they kept him because he was cool so it was past time for him to go /shrug.
Neo they can still bring her back since she's not confirmed dead and it wouldn't stretch belief too far IMO of her to just 'Mary Poppins, bitch'.

 

[Tython82]

Like, maybe they don't want to make new models, but I gotta wonder with these shorts if they regret getting rid of Roman and Neo.

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To be fair unless they decide to give Neo a revenge plot against Ruby for Romans death since I don't think she saw him being eaten by the Griffon but instead still locked in battle with Ruby then she really isn't needed plot wise since Roman and Neo were just the criminal elements Cinder was using to instigate her plan on retrieving the Maiden Powers/Relic of Choice.

 

[WhoAmEye]

Suddenly Neo vs Cinder plotline because Neo blames Cinder for forcibly dragging Roman into this mess resulting in his death.

 

[Carrnage]

Like, maybe they don't want to make new models, but I gotta wonder with these shorts if they regret getting rid of Roman and Neo.

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Roman barely fit the story of terrorism from vol 1-3. He'd be an odd one out on the later volumes.

 

[Terrabrand]

Naruto has ninja *genin* get chakra explained to them.

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Naruto: Sakura and Sasuke did not know about tree climbing. *Sakura and Sasuke*. And what Dylan said about Sakura explaining Chakra even though Naruto uses it on a regular basis.

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Naruto is a really bad example. Both because Naruto in specific is explicitly poor at the academics, and because more importantly, they're secret keeping Ninja.

Like. These are people who kill and destroy bodies just to keep secrets. It is completely believable that common techniques would be kept out of the general knowledge base, because secret keeping at any cost. Even Chakra itself not being widely known about makes a degree of sense, since it's a science type knowledge base thing. (that is, you can explain the fundamentals with hand seals and shit without needing to go into the idea of Chakra- the chakra network and all that is not something you need to know about to perform jutsu).

Certainly, in a fit of early installment weirdness a lot of these bits are retroactively known to the specific character later in the plot, but talking about Naruto up through about the Chunin Exams or so it actually is completely plausible that these things are secret enough that ninja in training don't know, especially because remember, before being passed into Kakashi's tutelage they were part of a group- academy students- suggested to have a very high failure rate. At which point it makes perfect sense you might keep more sensitive information from them as a matter of course.

 

[Q99]

This is tree running and their squad commander teaches it on their very first mission. All of them, even Naruto, get it on their first practice. It's not a secret technique, nigh every ninja we meet can do it, and they are at a school to learn ninja techniques.

Roman barely fit the story of terrorism from vol 1-3. He'd be an odd one out on the later volumes.

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Basically they're elite criminals who operate in the area the baddies wanted to hit, so got hired. When things go world traveling, the big bads have reason to go around, but while Roman siding with them for profit is quite believable, I don't think him being a full-timer works quite as well- he's not the type to be interested in a lengthy quest.

 

[Mook]

This is tree running and their squad commander teaches it on their very first mission. All of them, even Naruto, get it on their first practice. It's not a secret technique, nigh every ninja we meet can do it, and they are at a school to learn ninja techniques.

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To put it in perspective, Rock Lee managed to master both the tree walking and the much more difficult water walking. Rock, fucking, Lee. The kid who has to hyper-specialize in hand to hand combat because he couldn't manage to learn even the most basic and easy to learn ninjutsu or genjutsu. That's how widespread those techniques are. Pretty much every ninja who isn't a genin fresh out of the academy should know of and be able to use tree walking.


Anyway for some RWBY stuff:

 

[LancerisDead]

The question "Is Oz necessary" seems a bit off-base, to me

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The problem with that question is that it's in the wrong tense. It should be "Was Ozpin necessary in the story?"

When the story ends or is near enough to it that one can say "yeah, this bastard has finished their role", then you can say whether the character was unnecessary.

Unless you can see the future, it's impossible to criticize something that hasn't been written yet.

Anyway for some RWBY stuff:

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Holy shit, they're still supporting this? The fuck?

 

[Emma]

Roman barely fit the story of terrorism from vol 1-3. He'd be an odd one out on the later volumes.

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When the story ends or is near enough to it that one can say "yeah, this bastard has finished their role", then you can say whether the character was unnecessary.

Unless you can see the future, it's impossible to criticize something that hasn't been written yet.

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Again, my point wasn't really about the plot. It was necessity isn't the right word for a writer when they can take the story anywhere they want, as long as the audience stays interested (and that isn't even necessary for all writers).

Oz and Roman don't need to be judged by their importance to the plot- just whether they were/are interesting.

 

[The Narrator]

I'd personally rather than Ozpin hadn't come back in Volumes 4 & 5, because from a narrative perspective I think having him around is counterproductive. It's hard to do the "coming of age/coming into your own" story when the mentor figure is still hanging around telling everyone what to do.

 

[Alane1]

It seems like the greater scope was Ozpin's and Salem's opposing plots, schemes, plans and goals.

I don't really see that as being counterproductive as Ozpin isn't just a mentor figure to the various hunters, he's the gandalf to Salem's Sauron.

 

[LancerisDead]

I'd personally rather than Ozpin hadn't come back in Volumes 4 & 5, because from a narrative perspective I think having him around is counterproductive. It's hard to do the "coming of age/coming into your own" story when the mentor figure is still hanging around telling everyone what to do.

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It needs to be noted that the mentor is also going through his own coming of story, one that was dropped on him entirely by surprise.

 

[The Narrator]

It needs to be noted that the mentor is also going through his own coming of story, one that was dropped on him entirely by surprise.

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But is it at the expense of the story arcs of our existing protagonists? The series already had a glut of main characters that they didn't have enough screentime to balance, so adding one more wasn't necessarily the best idea.

 

[Faker]

But is it at the expense of the story arcs of our existing protagonists? The series already had a glut of main characters that they didn't have enough screentime to balance, so adding one more wasn't necessarily the best idea.

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It straight up isn't. RT already gets criticized for apprantkky forgetting the show's name, adding even more characters to focus on is not a good idea.

 

[LancerisDead]

But is it at the expense of the story arcs of our existing protagonists? The series already had a glut of main characters that they didn't have enough screentime to balance, so adding one more wasn't necessarily the best idea.

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If you're going to spend screen time with character development Ozpin and Oscar are an obvious choice, him being one of the two oldest people in the setting and being responsible of much the stuff that goes on Remnant.

I ain't saying that you should spend 20 minutes of a season with time ABRN or those guys that got beat up on V3 E1, because they just aren't relevant in a way that say, Ironwood or Ozpin are.

 

[thesevenwielder]

Avatar has bending explained to Sokka. Naruto has ninja *genin* get chakra explained to them. MHA has Deku have to be told about the sports festival that surpasses the Olympics in local popularity. Good luck finding a series that doesn't do this kind of thing.

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Sokka knows nothing about Bending because he's in the ass-end of nowhere with no other Benders besides his sister. Naruto is the literal deadlast of his class and is taught it by Sakura, who is the highest-scoring genin in her class. And it's clear that he knows how to use chakra given his ability to use shadow clones he just doesn't know the technical details, which is forgivable.

 

[Mook]

Holy shit, they're still supporting this? The fuck?

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Well if people are still playing it then they might as well keep supporting it. It probably doesn't take much resources anyway, especially not now that most of the groundwork has already been put in place.

 

[thesevenwielder]

It needs to be noted that the mentor is also going through his own coming of story, one that was dropped on him entirely by surprise.

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Dude, if a thousand years of constant reincarnations into hundreds of different people hasn't taught the idiot anything I doubt he is mentally capable of improving. Look at him still sticking to the same tactics that have failed him in the past. Look at how those dumb tactics have alienated at least two of only eight allies. Look at how even as a headmaster his constant need for secrecy alienated one of his most important allies, Ironwood. Man's a fuckup. Not evil, but you know how the old saying goes: sufficient incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.

Holy shit, they're still supporting this? The fuck?

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Why wouldn't they? It's practically free money for them. They spend the smallest amount of money to make new costumes and many fans will eat it up, despite both the DLC and game itself being horrifically overpriced while being very low quality. Of course if you point this out to those fans they will defend it to the death.

 

[VolantRedX]

Dude, if a thousand years of constant reincarnations into hundreds of different people hasn't taught the idiot anything I doubt he is mentally capable of improving. Look at him still sticking to the same tactics that have failed him in the past. Look at how those dumb tactics have alienated at least two of only eight allies. Look at how even as a headmaster his constant need for secrecy alienated one of his most important allies, Ironwood. Man's a fuckup. Not evil, but you know how the old saying goes: sufficient incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.

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I mean he's not using the same tactics. He admitted outright that he failed in predicting Salem at Beacon so now instead of hiding the relics in schools he's going to collect them first and then use them against her. Beyond that his tactics seemed to work for hundreds of years if not thousands. After all the world hasn't been in danger for most of it and Salem had to resort to using the likes of Cinder and Roman to get her way. Say what you will about them as characters but they seem rather low on the totem pole for a Goddess of evil to resort to. Her cabal of evil is a disgraced doctor, a lunatic, a giant whose only there for revenge, a women whose crack squad of evil is a punk with robo legs and a thief who is hoping sempi will notice her. Frankly with enemies like that Ozpin is pretty on the money to be less than worried. Shit only got real because people around him failed to trust him out of greed or fear or paranoia. If anything Ozpin's story is not him failing, but being failed by the weaknesses of others.

Why wouldn't they? It's practically free money for them. They spend the smallest amount of money to make new costumes and many fans will eat it up, despite both the DLC and game itself being horrifically overpriced while being very low quality. Of course if you point this out to those fans they will defend it to the death.

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I liked it. I'm in no hurry to play it again and I see no reason to buy DLC for it, but it's not the worst game I've played in recent years.

 

[LancerisDead]

Dude, if a thousand years of constant reincarnations into hundreds of different people hasn't taught the idiot anything I doubt he is mentally capable of improving. Look at him still sticking to the same tactics that have failed him in the past. Look at how those dumb tactics have alienated at least two of only eight allies. Look at how even as a headmaster his constant need for secrecy alienated one of his most important allies, Ironwood. Man's a fuckup. Not evil, but you know how the old saying goes: sufficient incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.

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That's... a lot of assumptions, both in that Ozpin has always done the same and there're things he isn't gonna do because of ethics or that his tactics in the past have failed.

Frankly, from what we know in Remnant in the 80+ years following the war seems the dude's done a pretty good job, what with the "We are living in a time of incredible peace" that the show hammered home since Volume 1 episode 1.

 

[thesevenwielder]

I mean he's not using the same tactics. He admitted outright that he failed in predicting Salem at Beacon so now instead of hiding the relics in schools he's going to collect them first and then use them against her. Beyond that his tactics seemed to work for hundreds of years if not thousands. After all the world hasn't been in danger for most of it and Salem had to resort to using the likes of Cinder and Roman to get her way. Say what you will about them as characters but they seem rather low on the totem pole for a Goddess of evil to resort to. Her cabal of evil is a disgraced doctor, a lunatic, a giant whose only there for revenge, a women whose crack squad of evil is a punk with robo legs and a thief who is hoping sempi will notice her. Frankly with enemies like that Ozpin is pretty on the money to be less than worried. Shit only got real because people around him failed to trust him out of greed or fear or paranoia. If anything Ozpin's story is not him failing, but being failed by the weaknesses of others.


I liked it. I'm in no hurry to play it again and I see no reason to buy DLC for it, but it's not the worst game I've played in recent years.

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1. Are you ignorant of the fact that humanity is confined to any grand total of four cities across four separate continents. Maybe 5 if we include Menagerie. It is explicitly stated that any small villages that break off from the big cities are likely to be attacked and destroyed by the Grimm, which we see no less than three times during volume four. And we all know how the first major attempt at expansion in Mountain Glenn ended.

2. You mean the same for relics he had 80 years ago when he single-handedly ended the Great War and had all four countries united behind him, and instead of using those relics against Salem hid them away? Well that certainly says something about Ozpin, but probably not what you were intending.

3. I think you kind of shot yourself in the foot calling Salem's minions low-quality. Because if she is able to do so much with so little, that doesn't exactly say great things about Oz now does it?

4. Why should they trust him? No seriously, look at this from an outsider's point of view. He utterly failed to prevent a Grimm incursion into the center of the city. He routinely refuses to tell those he's working with the whole truth. Ironwood even says to Glynda that he keeps secrets from Ironwood, and Glynda's utterly unhelpful response is that he keeps secrets from everyone. I would not be surprised if in volume six it turns out that Ironwood knows nothing about the reincarnation. And he is still keeping secrets from the kids.

5. Yes there are worse games out there than it. And strep is worse than a sore throat.

That's... a lot of assumptions, both in that Ozpin has always done the same and there're things he isn't gonna do because of ethics or that his tactics in the past have failed.

Frankly, from what we know in Remnant in the 80+ years following the war seems the dude's done a pretty good job, what with the "We are living in a time of incredible peace" that the show hammered home since Volume 1 episode 1.

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Assumptions based on the information we've been given.

That "Living in a time of peace" phrase that everyone kept parroting gave me some 1984 vibes, especially when we learned that the world is nowhere near peaceful, that there was a huge Revolution for faunus rights that is somehow swept under the rug and a group of extremists robbing trains and torching shops. But no, "we are in an era of peace." Kind of disconcerting, feels kind of like HappyTown.

 

[Zam]

Frankly, from what we know in Remnant in the 80+ years following the war seems the dude's done a pretty good job, what with the "We are living in a time of incredible peace" that the show hammered home since Volume 1 episode 1.

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I mean, there was the attempted genocide by proxy of the Faunus (Or at least that's what it looked like to me) the ensuing revolution, the White Fang,a diplomatic organization, was seemingly ignored or responded to with violence by humanity that continued to exploit and kill Faunus while keeping people who were twice promised equality from being able to even have equal citizenship, leading them to become an army. Plus Vacuo descended into anarchy and tore down its own appointed council after the king removed power from his allies leader of Vacuo and shoved a council in there that clearly no one wanted. Not to say he exclusively is responsible for all of this, though I feel he is some of it, but I wouldn't exactly say things are going grand regardless of Glynda's claims about a time of peace.

Plus I tend to feel a lot of stuff attributed to him is questionable at times in both directions. Like, the argument he could have killed Salem cos he had all four relics, presumably all four maidens and the entire world willing to bow to him 80 years ago but then opted to just locked them all up. Now, we don't know 'why' he did this, or what his through process was, be it 'the people are exhausted' or some sort of more paranoid, egotistical or less than noble motivation. Not arguing for one or the other, Btu I do tend to feel both his critiques and supporters tend to treat some assumptions like canon, such as the above, when in actuality, we know very little about Ozpin or Salem's nature, or their exact drives and motives and neither seems to be the most reliable narrator to begin with, along with their own creation myths not even matching up.