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RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • thesevenwielder said:
    1. Are you ignorant of the fact that humanity is confined to any grand total of four cities across four separate continents. Maybe 5 if we include Menagerie. It is explicitly stated that any small villages that break off from the big cities are likely to be attacked and destroyed by the Grimm, which we see no less than three times during volume four. And we all know how the first major attempt at expansion in Mountain Glenn ended.
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    No...that's not at all true. Ruby and Yang live in a small town. As did Jaune. In fact considering we see them commute into town it seems like tons of people live outside of the major cities. In Volume 4 we see Ruby and co save a town yes, but the townspeople weren't acting like their very existence was nearly wiped out. At most it seemed like a minor issue that the Blacksmith asked for help with in exchange for mates rates on Jaune's sword and armor. Lie Ren's hometown was destroyed but the Nuckelavee was pretty uniquely evil and powerful and seemingly did little between then and dying. It was Raven who destroyed the village RNJR found. Speaking of when Yang is traveling to find her mother we see her pass through one town and get gas at an isolated station in the middle of nowhere where she ran into the bandit who knew where Raven was. On the topic of Mountain Glenn it wasn't just random happenstance, the game (which is canon) outright says that it only happened thanks to Merlot Industries attracting Grimm to the town on purpose.

    Overall while the Grimm are dangerous Remanate is hardly some death world where any step outside of Atlas, Vale, Minstral, Menagerie or Vacuo you'll be killed instantly. That's just bad fanon.

    thesevenwielder said:
    2. You mean the same for relics he had 80 years ago when he single-handedly ended the Great War and had all four countries united behind him, and instead of using those relics against Salem hid them away? Well that certainly says something about Ozpin, but probably not what you were intending.
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    Maybe he thought she was dead? Or she hid in a place he couldn't find? Or he tried and she escaped? We don't know what happened after the war was over.

    thesevenwielder said:
    3. I think you kind of shot yourself in the foot calling Salem's minions low-quality. Because if she is able to do so much with so little, that doesn't exactly say great things about Oz now does it?
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    Or it says he let himself get complacent because he had pretty much everything sowed up and let things slip. The argument isn't between Ozpin being incompetent and being an infallible god. It's that he's merely human and able to make mistakes in judgement. Which he outright says and owns up to when he fails.

    thesevenwielder said:
    That "Living in a time of peace" phrase that everyone kept parroting gave me some 1984 vibes, especially when we learned that the world is nowhere near peaceful, that there was a huge Revolution for faunus rights that is somehow swept under the rug and a group of extremists robbing trains and torching shops. But no, "we are in an era of peace." Kind of disconcerting, feels kind of like HappyTown.
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    I mean right now we're living in a time of unprecedented peace in human history. The amount of violence in the world is down way beyond anything our grandparents could have imagined, but we still have groups of insane people trying to kill millions and entire countries have regressed into political extremism. Still doesn't change the fact that the world today is way more peaceful than it was in 1938.
     
    thesevenwielder said:
    1. Are you ignorant of the fact that humanity is confined to any grand total of four cities across four separate continents. Maybe 5 if we include Menagerie. It is explicitly stated that any small villages that break off from the big cities are likely to be attacked and destroyed by the Grimm, which we see no less than three times during volume four. And we all know how the first major attempt at expansion in Mountain Glenn ended.
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    *completely ignoring every township between vale and mistral the team stopped at that been there long enough to have establishments like tourist traps*

    Why didn't he use the relics straight after the great war? Presumably because there was a shit-ton of rebuilding to do. And we don't even know what the Relics actually do yet.
     
    VolantRedX said:
    Overall while the Grimm are dangerous Remanate is hardly some death world where any step outside of Atlas, Vale, Minstral, Menagerie or Vacuo you'll be killed instantly. That's just bad fanon.
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    Eeer, kinda yes and kinda no if I recall, I think a World of Remnant noted that villages, travelling groups ETC have a bad tendency of disappearing at random.
     
    Zam said:
    Plus Vacuo descended into anarchy and tore down its own appointed council after the king removed power from his allies leader of Vacuo and shoved a council in there that clearly no one wanted.
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    Where are you getting most of this from? The World of Remnant on Vacuo has a bit more than what you've got here.
    While the council is ineffective there is still a degree of order from Shade academy. Personally, I wouldn't characterize Vacuo as being anarchic in the failed state sense with general and widespread lawlessness, I have to admit that it does kinda fit the classification of an acephalous society, which is a community that just doesn't have a(n effective) government. Also, Vacuo didn't have a central government before the Great War. And while this is speculative why wouldn't the King's ally not be part of the council or Shade academy?
     
    thesevenwielder said:
    That "Living in a time of peace" phrase that everyone kept parroting gave me some 1984 vibes, especially when we learned that the world is nowhere near peaceful, that there was a huge Revolution for faunus rights that is somehow swept under the rug and a group of extremists robbing trains and torching shops. But no, "we are in an era of peace." Kind of disconcerting, feels kind of like HappyTown.
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    The fact that racism has no effect on the Grimm, as in people can just stand outside and shoot at Faunus and not be attacked by Grimm for having negative emotions, is just scary in of itself.

    And then there's the shit Mantle pulled.
     
    thesevenwielder said:
    Assumptions based on the information we've been given.

    That "Living in a time of peace" phrase that everyone kept parroting gave me some 1984 vibes, especially when we learned that the world is nowhere near peaceful, that there was a huge Revolution for faunus rights that is somehow swept under the rug and a group of extremists robbing trains and torching shops. But no, "we are in an era of peace." Kind of disconcerting, feels kind of like HappyTown.
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    That sounds more like your headcanon than what is shown in the series.

    Also, not an utopia doesn't equal a dystopia.
     
    tygerbright said:
    Where are you getting most of this from? The World of Remnant on Vacuo has a bit more than what you've got here.
    While the council is ineffective there is still a degree of order from Shade academy. Personally, I wouldn't characterize Vacuo as being anarchic in the failed state sense with general and widespread lawlessness, I have to admit that it does kinda fit the classification of an acephalous society, which is a community that just doesn't have a(n effective) government. Also, Vacuo didn't have a central government before the Great War. And while this is speculative why wouldn't the King's ally not be part of the council or Shade academy?
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    I mean, this is how the rejection of the council was shown:

    And again, they already had a leader, who wasn't an evil empire, but nope, the king decides the woman who came to his aid despite huge risks should kneel along side their enemies and lose her position so he can replace her with something clearly nobody wanted.

    The only authority that is respected is Shade Academy which is an academy where Hunters train and even then we know little of how much influence it actually has and we saw their leader in the Great War film and there was no mention of her keeping or being given any kind of position, after she was replaced by the council which got, well you saw the pic.

    Psyga315 said:
    The fact that racism has no effect on the Grimm, as in people can just stand outside and shoot at Faunus and not be attacked by Grimm for having negative emotions, is just scary in of itself.

    And then there's the shit Mantle pulled.
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    Given we see RWBY having existential crisis's in a Grimm infested city and a village with no Hunters under threat be that giant rock Grimm but not wiped out, I think people overestimate the range and sensitivity of Grimm, as well as how close they actually get to settlements when they can't steam roll them like what happened to Ren's village. What's more, racists are delusional idiots who feel vindicated in killing Faunus and see them as lesser, why would, when they are in control of the battle, would their bigotry invoke Grimm and in any noticeable numbers that would arrive quickly in a likely secured territory?
     
    Zam said:
    I mean, this is how the rejection of the council was shown:

    And again, they already had a leader, who wasn't an evil empire, but nope, the king decides the woman who came to his aid despite huge risks should kneel along side their enemies and lose her position so he can replace her with something clearly nobody wanted.

    The only authority that is respected is Shade Academy which is an academy where Hunters train and even then we know little of how much influence it actually has and we saw their leader in the Great War film and there was no mention of her keeping or being given any kind of position, after she was replaced by the council which got, well you saw the pic.
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    Yes, they rejected the authority of the council, violently, though it is still implied that the council still exists in Vacuo.

    And again, they didn't have any government until after the war. We don't actually know anything about who that woman was or why she was represented as the leader during the war. And there is nothing about why they all bowed or that the king forced them to all bow, only that in the end they all bowed. Also, the woman appears long before the emperor of Minstral and the leader of Mantle as well as behind the king which to me implies that she was already loyal to him before the battle.

    And there was no mention of what happened to anyone other than the king of Vale following the war that is why I said it was speculative.
     
    So to change tacks I'm gonna make a bold claim: Salem and OG!Ozpin were siblings.

    Thematically it makes sense, given how much emphasis is given to fraternal bonds in the show.
     
    tygerbright said:
    Yes, they rejected the authority of the council, violently, though it is still implied that the council still exists in Vacuo.

    And again, they didn't have any government until after the war. We don't actually know anything about who that woman was or why she was represented as the leader during the war. And there is nothing about why they all bowed or that the king forced them to all bow, only that in the end they all bowed. Also, the woman appears long before the emperor of Minstral and the leader of Mantle as well as behind the king which to me implies that she was already loyal to him before the battle.

    And there was no mention of what happened to anyone other than the king of Vale following the war that is why I said it was speculative.
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    Sure, but I never denied it existed, I just pointed out it got violently rejected and seems to old no real power and was also installed against the wishes of the people.

    We don't know they didn't, but given they had a leader and an army, and Atlas/Mistral thought they could pressure 'Vacuo' into doing what they wanted and were uniformly rejected by her, it would not make any sense to me that they didn't have some form of Government. I didn't specify forced, just saying it happened and it looks pretty screwed up as far as I'm concerned given she put herself and her people in danger to support him and then she's shown kneeling alongside the actual aggressors in the war, then loses her position with no word of what became of her afterwards.

    It is speculative, but given she was already leading Vacuo, why would Vacuo have rejected the Council if she was on it? Shade's an option but we have no proof of it, the way we do Vacuo violently rejecting the Council the King put there.
     
    WhoAmEye said:
    *completely ignoring every township between vale and mistral the team stopped at that been there long enough to have establishments like tourist traps*

    Why didn't he use the relics straight after the great war? Presumably because there was a shit-ton of rebuilding to do. And we don't even know what the Relics actually do yet.
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    1. Okay, we only see them stop by one village that isn't in ruins. Out of four. And tourist traps? Such as? I'm legitimately curious.
    2. And yet we are led to believe that these 6 kids plus Qrow can do what four united kingdoms can't. Right.

    @VolantRedX you aren't disproving my point. I said Oz was a screw-up who continually screws up and seems incapable of fixing his mistakes because he keeps doing the same thing that failed him when he was Headmaster. He may acknowledge that he has made mistakes, but fails to act upon that revelation.
     
    thesevenwielder said:
    @VolantRedX you aren't disproving my point. I said Oz was a screw-up who continually screws up and seems incapable of fixing his mistakes because he keeps doing the same thing that failed him when he was Headmaster. He may acknowledge that he has made mistakes, but fails to act upon that revelation.
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    He's literally acting on that revelation in the most recent season. More over I think our real disagreement is simply a matter of degrees. Oz messes up, but he's hardly a constant screw up. He's pretty on top of things from the start and basically only lost at Beacon because he was a day late with all his prep.
     
    Forgive me since this should probably be obvious but if RWBY was following standard season structure where would we be?

    Because I feel like a lot of RWBY's storytelling problems are exacerbated by the fact I literally do not know where we're supposed to be in story structure. Is this mid season? Two thirds?

    Oh and in hindsight Roman might have been a problem. He was TOO likeable and none of the other villains live up to him. Hell, even Neo is a satellite to him.
     
    Dream Logic said:
    Forgive me since this should probably be obvious but if RWBY was following standard season structure where would we be?

    Because I feel like a lot of RWBY's storytelling problems are exacerbated by the fact I literally do not know where we're supposed to be in story structure. Is this mid season? Two thirds?

    Oh and in hindsight Roman might have been a problem. He was TOO likeable and none of the other villains live up to him. Hell, even Neo is a satellite to him.
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    At most generous, using videogame(!!!) logic, we're maybe a fifth of the way in. The protagonists only have one of a set of four Macguffins, the only villain gone was supposed to be a one-off who isn't even really part of the villain organization, and everything in Seasons 1 to 3 can just amount to being a doomed-hometown scenario, which generally tends to happen either 5% into the story, or before it's even begun.

    It's like Rooster Teeth wants this show to have as many seasons of RWBY as Disney wants Star Wars to have movies.
     
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    Dream Logic said:
    Forgive me since this should probably be obvious but if RWBY was following standard season structure where would we be?

    Because I feel like a lot of RWBY's storytelling problems are exacerbated by the fact I literally do not know where we're supposed to be in story structure. Is this mid season? Two thirds?

    Oh and in hindsight Roman might have been a problem. He was TOO likeable and none of the other villains live up to him. Hell, even Neo is a satellite to him.
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    Volume 1-2 would likely be combined as would Volume 4-5 since they're both basically the same season long arc split in half.
     
    Is there ever going to be a point where those notes will get leaked in full and unembellished? Or at least a list of anime that Oum had watched and enjoyed?
     
    Delphisage said:
    Is there ever going to be a point where those notes will get leaked in full and unembellished? Or at least a list of anime that Oum had watched and enjoyed?
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    I don't really care what anime Monty watched. It might help understand his tastes a bit, what he likes as a consumer, but for him as a creator, I'd rather know more about his lived experiences.
     
    Honestly it's sort of irrelevant what Monty's inspiration was. He doesn't really have any say in the show anymore.
     
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