Remove ads

RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

Reader mode
Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
    Last edited:
  • Staff Post
    • DezoPenguin said:
    Rooster Teeth, they of the "Wow, this is the first time I'm getting to see these episodes!" director commentary on the DVD release, they of the recurring "we just finished the animation for this the night before it aired" routine, managing to finish enough of a backlog of episodes to deliberately hold them back until next year?
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Even the people who know how shoe-string tight Rooster Teeth's production schedule is are starting to think that the studio should be producing things two or three times as quickly as before because of "all of the money" rolling in from Japan.
     
    Sunder the Gold said:
    Even the people who know how shoe-string tight Rooster Teeth's production schedule is are starting to think that the studio should be producing things two or three times as quickly as before because of "all of the money" rolling in from Japan.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Internet communication being pesky, could you clarify your meaning? I'm not sure if you mean "The perception that money is rolling in is making people who ought to know better think they should be working faster when that's not at all the case" or "The knowledge that money is coming in is finally getting the message through even to people who know how RT usually operates that they ought to be hiring more staff so that they can produce content faster."
     
    DezoPenguin said:
    Internet communication being pesky, could you clarify your meaning? I'm not sure if you mean "The perception that money is rolling in is making people who ought to know better think they should be working faster when that's not at all the case" or "The knowledge that money is coming in is finally getting the message through even to people who know how RT usually operates that they ought to be hiring more staff so that they can produce content faster."
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    The quotation marks around "all of the money" seems to imply that he meant the first reading, at least to me.
     
    I mean that people are unreasonably raising their already too-high expectations of Rooster Teeth based on the "loads of money" they're now getting.


    Shorter version: People are being entitled and stupid.
     
    Last edited:
    Something came up on the SB thread and I figured I might as well cross post it.

    You know, reflecting on Adam and what I lie, dislike ETC has given me some thoughts. So first and foremost, while I think he's an unlikable brat, I do think he worked really well as a villain and have no issues with his V3 portrayal, feeling it was built up more or less from the start and capped off well, allowing Adam to become the villain of Blake and to an extent, Yang's story arcs (Though probably not their only villain, unless Salem beefs him up with Grimm I don't feel he could be drawn out for the whole series very easily).

    But I digress, what I am hoping ends up being the case for Adam is that there 'isn't' some big reason he's such a mass murderer now. I would love it if he was born into and lived a life like many other Faunus in Menagerie/Mistral/ETC, not good and he saw the suffering and issues faced by his people; but that he wasn't say a child quarry slave, or watched humans beat his parents to death on his birthday ETC. End result, I don't want Adam's situation to be beyond tragic and nightmare is, or super unique, he's not the only one who grew up the way he did and is not alone.

    He joined the White Fang to work for the betterment of his people, and possibly because they helped him and members of his community an so he feels very close to it.

    When Sienna Khan takes over and leads them down a violent path he follow, is maybe even a bit excited, its like a heroes journey and they're finally stopping all the begging and pleading for people to not exploit them or deny them service and simply forcing the matter, he doesn't relish in the violence yet, but its a steady climb/descent both for him and the White Fang and there's a real catharsis to hitting back.

    And that's the key thing here. There are studies I have read about that talk of how doing things like punching a pillow or working over a punching bag when angered isn't a good idea, the reason being is that it gets one's brain to associate violence with pleasure and to naturally response to anger, frustration, ETC with violence.

    This is what happens to Adam, its not some singular nightmarish tragedy, its the enviroment Sienna Khan and the others in the WF created, because when Adam fights, he is amongst friends, when he wins it feels great, when he uses his anger to destroy an enemy his is lauded for it. Violence as a solution becomes the norm, responding to a situation that makes him angry or a group he hates with violence is normalised and in turn it starts to bleed into everything he does.

    In the end, it wasn't that someone forced this on him, it wasn't that some tragedy ruined him, it was just lots of small steps, approving claps on the back and a general feeling of success and catharsis that came from violence, all leading him into becoming an abuser who places no value on others lives and is incredibly self involved.

    He got permission from authority figures and fellows to be violent and angry (Sienna & the WF) became successful because of said violence and hatred (He's high ranking) and with each step he got a little worse and it felt a little better, and in the end violence became normal for him, even against those he claimed to love.
    ___________________________________
    OK, one of the reasons I like this idea is it takes away a "woe is me, there is no other way I/he could turn out" tragedy from Adam, his situation wasn't easy, or fair, but so were many others and not all of them went down his path and thus he is ultimately responsible for himself rather than 'too damaged to help it' or something to that effect.

    But more than that, I feel it works on a narrative level for Blake and the White Fang.

    Here's the thing, during the first 2 volumes Adam was not the focus of Blake's White Fang stories, he was referenced, his presence was like a spectre or a shadow, but ultimately it was "I don't want to believe the entire WF have become like this" and "How can I stop this?" The latter of which Blake did not have an answer too when talking with her team. It wasn't "How can I stop or change Adam?" or even simply about stopping the WF right now, it was about trying to repair rifts caused by hatred, fixing problems but without becoming monsters in the process, it was about the White Fang, not Adam.

    This ties into my next view, Adam is part of the White Fang, he was a participant in the shift of something Blake loved and saw as a part of herself becoming something she finds horrifying and harmful. Adam however was no the architect of this shift, he played his role but was ultimately not the one who took something Blake loved and twisted it into something hateful that actively harms every ideal she holds and Blake and those she loves.

    That, was Sienna Khan.

    End result, Blake's story is about the White Fang, how it was, how it changed, how she almost fell but came back, and about how she can fix things. Adam is an example of what the White Fang has helped encourage and create, but again, he didn't cause this change, the change simply let his worst attributes flourish. So while I feel he works well as a big bad for Blake and preferably Yang in the short term, I don't feel he can really work as a longtime big bad without a lot of effort and am not sure he fits thematically for the entire arc, especially as it could then become just about beating him rather than fighting what allowed him to become what he is.
     
    Last edited:
    Remove ads
    [Discussion] Volume 4, Chapter 11: Taking Control
  • Threadmarks
    • Tyrian's scene was... damn, that was fucked up. They sure weren't lying about that. And I can totally see the point where Cinder thought "Whelp, shit." Amazing how efficient Salem dealt with him though. With people like him, punishment in the form of "You disappoint me," is a much bigger motivation than anything else could be.

    Huh, Tai isn't coming with Yang. That's a shame. She seems to be heading to Mistral though.

    Weiss' escaping! Finally. Wouch, another fight between Jacques and Ironwood. And Ironwood isn't taking all of this well. Surprised Winter is in Mistral, though. Not sure if that's a good idea because, well, the robot takeover, Atlas military, embargo, obvious Schnee - I don't think that would rub people the right way. I'm surprised that the escape is smooth so far - will probably have more conflict there next week. Also Mistral, btw.

    Then Blake's scene. You're not being selfless. You can make your own choice, but not ours. Stop pushing us out. Dammit Sun, you da MVP. And oh, seems like Kali is quite similar to Sun in personality - reverse gender generation xerox? Also, Adam's trying to take over the White Fang and going to destroy Haven - weird, wasn't Sienna Khan being manipulated by Hazel? Something happened and maybe that's why he's out in the middle of nowhere? - and Blake's going to go and take it over before he did. Mistral!

    And we're back to RNJR. Aaaaaand Ren's breaking down. To be fair, that Nuckelavee really is pants-shittingly terrifying even without the trauma part. Between its Attack on Titan-like face and its Asian ghost-like movement... fuck.
     
  • Threadmarks
    • Yep, Tyrian is fucking insane. Also, how much do you want to bet that if the "rider" and "mount" parts of the Nucklavee Grimm are separated, they can still act independently? Like, someone cuts the rider off, and takes down the mount, only that makes the rider more pissed off, and it drags itself along the ground with its arms.
     
    I like you Ironwood but you're going too authoritarian here.
     
    Noted point: It wasn't Qrow who was holding back information about Raven to Yang, it was Taiyang who deliberately didn't want her to know. (Mind you, Qrow went along with him, but it's pretty plain it was "She can learn the truth when she's an adult and can deal with how effed up her mother is.")

    While on the one hand it looks like everybody's going to meet up in Mistral, thematically, when Tai asked Yang if she was going after Raven or Ruby, I half expected her to answer "Menagerie," 'cause that whole "A or B"--"C" conversational flow is pretty standard.

    I also like how Yang seems to be ordinarily leaving off the robot arm, then puts it on when needed for action (maybe it has a limited battery charge or something?). This would present the possibility that she can function as before in combat/action scenes going forward, while retaining the handicap in more social scenes to emphasize that yes, this actually is a significant change in her life going forward without having to throw her into combat one-handed in defiance of good sense. (It also allows for a "kicking ass one-handed" scene sometime going forward if she's ever ambushed without her arm.)

    Sun, telling it like it is! You go, boy! Kali is still hilarious.

    Ironwood...oh, boy, you're literally just making the same mistakes you made in Volume 2 all over again, doubling down on authoritarian control. You've got to work pretty hard to make Jacques Schnee sound like the good guy in the room. I do like his support of Winter. (Of course, Jacques burned much of his "sane and reasonable" cred in that scene when he accused Ironwood of stealing Winter from him. It's also rather telling that we still haven't seen Weiss's mother.

    Tyrian is creepy as hell. Salem continues to be Competent Evil Boss Lady. Three words and Tyrian's a broken mess, no "You have failed me" *consumed* or any of that nonsense, just letting him crush himself. Cinder is horrified, as well she should be, because crazy is crazy.

    The headmaster of Haven is apparently named Leo. I still think there's a roughly 20% chance that Leo is in fact Dr. Watts, or possibly that Watts is on Haven's staff as a teacher.

    I like how the episode worked so well with the theme mentioned in its name. There's the conventional use of "Taking Control" in that, after a season of being physically and emotionally scattered, Weiss, Blake, and Yang are all standing up and firmly grasping their fates and future courses in their own two hands, standard protagonist stuff. Then there's the literal use of the phrase by Ironwood, in that he's seizing political and physical control of Atlas. There's the plan by Adam to control the White Fang, and now the counter-plan by Blake and family to also control the White Fang. There's Cinder trying to control her new power. Then there's the more subtle uses, like how Tai controlled information flow to Yang about Raven, how Salem exercises control over her minions, and the dynamics of power and control within the Schnee family.

    And, of course, at the end, we're shown Ren, who is absolutely losing control. I assumed that this episode, with its title and general theming, would have Ren gather himself and face down the nightmare responsible for destroying his childhood. Instead, they did the exact opposite, showing him completely breaking down in the face of the Nuckalavee's arrival, even though his Semblance is literally (apparently) to maintain control of his emotions. Which, after all of those "taking control" moments, was twice as effective as an "oh, hell" moment.

    That said, I think it's become terminally obvious that the finale of V4 is going to be much more like the finale of V1 was, a "midseason finale" kind of thing in terms of story structure. V4 seems to basically have been about the reactions to V3: a gloss on the political state, showing the audience some more hints of the world as it exists outside of the four walls of Beacon Academy (something that virtually all the WoRs have been dedicated to as well), expanding the roles of families to give people's backgrounds, and of course showing the protagonists themselves working through their own emotions and finding their way forward. I expect some kind of Big Reveal cliffhanger at the end of the finale about the status of Haven to lead into next season, which should have the cast converge to confront it. I'm pretty sure that the White Fang plot will not be resolved next week, while RNJR's fight with the Nuckalavee will be the episode's centerpiece that can be tidied up neatly to give some season-finale closure (whether that means triumphant victory over the shadows of the past, or bitter death at the hands of evil, who knows?).

    Also, whose idiotic idea was it to make the left-right axis of the camera uninvertable in Grimm Eclipse? It's giving me a literal headache to play because while I can adapt easily enough to "different buttons do different things," after spending the last fifteen months playing Bloodborne, Dark Souls III, Dark Souls II, and Nights of Azure for hundreds of hours, my "move the right stick to adjust the camera" muscle memory does not want to play this one game in the opposite direction!
     
    Why is kuroyuri's emblem a black lotus and not a black lily?

    Other than that, when will we see Ren's cyborg/X-box uncle given that his father's Hanzo?
     
    All right, episode's out lets see what all the hype is about.....
    :eek:

    -Cinder is scared, Salem is evil (but still so god-damn awesome) and Tyrian has gone completely out of his gourd.

    -Yang has hauled out her motorcycle and is heading for Mistral (I assume). Though considering all the crazy mech-shift tech on Remnant I have to wonder if that thing comes with an aquatic and/or flight mode for long distance travel.

    -Snow White has escaped Jack Frost's castle with the help of the seven dwarfs. Though I have to assume the secret passage leads to an airship or something. Just walking to Mistral isn't going to work.

    -Ironwood you aren't the Tin Woodsmen, you're a freaking tin puppet. These actions will be exactly what Salem wants as they just agitate the populaces of the Kingdoms even more. Ozpin, I think you can file 'bringing James into your organization' under 'mistakes you have made'.

    -Sun you da man/monkey, Blake really needed this pointed out to her. Kali, what are you doing?:lol If you want to listen at the door, make sure it has stronger hinges.

    -Yikes, three way power struggle for the White Fang. We have Khan with the 'aggressive methods but not psycho' group (presumably falling out of favor), Adam Taurus who is getting more and more support as the 'kill all the humans, EXTERMINATE!' faction supported by Salem's crew. And finally the Belladonna clan (with Ghira or Blake at the lead) as 'are you people freaking insane?!? Stop before you get us all killed!'

    -The Nucklavee is three different kinds of freaky as expected (dishwasher1910 got it pretty close) though I have to ask, how did they not notice/hear this thing until it was right on top of them? And Ren has just shut down. Hopefully he'll be able to pull it back together and get some closure (and you know, live through this).

    I suspect episode 12 is going to be one massive roller coaster ride as the individual character/development arcs of the four protagonists come to a close and the gang will be coming back together in the next season.
     
    jwolfe_beta said:
    He represents the seven dwarfs (Doc, Sneezy, Bashful, Grumpy etc) and his eye color shifts (with occupying personality changes) reflect this.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    I know quite a few people in the /co/ threads have been making bets he's somehow related to Neo, eye shifts related to personality, it could just be a trope RT likes but it could also be more.
     
    jwolfe_beta said:
    -Ironwood you aren't the Tin Woodsmen, you're a freaking tin puppet.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    This reminded me of something interesting about the Tin Woodsman: in one of the later Oz books, it was revealed the same fate that had befallen him, having his body replaced by tin piece by piece, occurred to someone else as well: a soldier called Captain Fyter, who became known as the Tin Soldier. Fyter fell in love with the same woman that Nick Chopper* had, and the Wicked Witch of the East placed the same curse that she put on Chopper's ax on to Fyter's sword. He too was replaced piece by piece with tin, but the tinsmith had improved since the last time he had done this, and gave Fyter a heart. A heart made of cold, hard tin.** I can't help but wonder if some of Ironwood's personality comes from him.

    Also, Ironwood's dictatorial trajectory is rather interesting when you consider that the Tin Woodsman became the Emperor of the Winkies.

    *There's a bit of amusement there, as Jacques Schnee is having significant issues with a man whose fairy tale inspiration had the first name Nicholas, same as his father-in-law.

    **Also, the tinsmith kept the body parts he replaced, and eventually assembled them into a single man (except for the left arm, both of which were lost), who he intended to use as a servant. This amalgam-man ended up marrying the woman that both the Tin Woodsman and the Tin Soldier had fallen in love with.
     
    Why is Man-Horse-Grimm so terrifying? We haven't gotten a clear look at the whole thing, and yet I feel unnerved every time that thing comes on screen.
     
    NMS said:
    Why is Man-Horse-Grimm so terrifying? We haven't gotten a clear look at the whole thing, and yet I feel unnerved every time that thing comes on screen.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Because Rooster Teeth is skillfully making use of horror movie tropes to play up how eerily wrong everything about it is. The fact that we haven't gotten a clear look at it is part of what makes it so scary.
     
    So when Sun eavesdrops and interrupts a touching emotional scene and looks like he's just eavesdropping but also has extremely important information, half the viewers want to strangle him and tumblr explodes with people calling him a stalker. Blake's parents do the exact same Goddamn thing and everyone just laughs it off and goes, "Oh, you."
     
    Reader mode
    You must login or register to reply here.
    Remove ads
    Back
    Top