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RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • TheBleachDoctor said:
    He just needs to fire on the city, and make it obvious that an Atlesian airship is destroying the city. It seems like Cinder wants to fracture the unity of the kingdoms, as one of her goals.
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    She's already doing that by making Atlas' army look like a bunch of idiots. War crimes or incompetence so heinous as to be no different. :cool:

    And again, it wouldn't even be a lie.

    Edit : I mean personally I think its beautiful that no more than a half dozen lines after Cinder mentions the unchecked power wielded by the Headmasters Ozpin unironically tells Ironwood to quit faffing and send in his fleet.

    The point being, she's actually right. Ozpin and his inner circle appointed themselves the world's secret guardians with discretion above the Kingdoms. Maybe the secrecy was necessary but it's all exploding in their faces now.
     
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    Stop: every time you itg half-life 3 gets delayed a week
  • Staff Post
    • every time you itg half-life 3 gets delayed a week Folks, knock off the Internet Tough Guy-ing. "People fantasizing about torturing other dudes" is shit that belongs in a low-budget Lionsgate flick, not on SV.
    thesevenwielder said:
    I think I've figured out how I want Emerald to die.

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    Renu said:
    Her dying in the middle of a crowd with nobody noticing would be poetic, though yeah, that one looks good too.
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    thesevenwielder said:
    Evil people do evil things, and should be punished in evil ways. Emerald uses her Semblance to manipulate others and see what she wants them to see. Her punishment should be the removal of her eyes, rendering her incapable of sight.

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    JarringToaster said:
    Nah. That's boring. You gotta make sure she's blind and then starve her. It'll be fitting for what she does and her past.
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    These posts constitute a violation of SV's Rule 2: "[Don't] post anything that is hateful or advocates harassment or violence." Infraction points have been awarded as deemed appropriate.

    Srsly people, I'd expect this kind of immature, insecure junk out of high schoolers. Grow up.

    Sinsystems said:
    Honestly I want Emerald to end up in a situation where Cinder could save her but doing so would harm her goals thus Cinder discards her little illusionist. Now that would be fitting punishment.
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    NuclearNickel said:
    I'd...probably not spare her.
    The death would be slow, and ungodly painful, but I wouldn't let her live.
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    NuclearNickel said:
    As a man who has played that game, and is a massive fan of the franchise, I have this to say:
    Oh, fuck the hell yes.
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    You both get a warning. Don't do it again.


    and to head off people inevitably complaining about 'killing space hitler' and all... The specific rule in question (Rule 2) reads "[Don't] post anything that is hateful or advocates harassment or violence." Each rule has a couple general examples so that you know how they're usually applied, and in this case: "[Don't] talk about how great it would be if someone was subject to rape, torture, maiming, or other extreme punishments."


    For anyone who wants further clarification on the subject, I would urge you to read @Admiral Skippy's excellent post here, or Ford's post here. I've quoted the most-relevant bit below:

    Admiral Skippy said:
    In practice, it breaks down roughly like this:
    - "I wish someone would assassinate Space Hitler." - Okay, because it's clearly relating to fictional discussion, and it's also tasteful- someone's page-long snuff-porn fic about killing Space Hitler would be against the rules.
    - "I think that overall, it's a good thing that we fought Germany in WW1." - Okay, because it's tasteful, and relating to discussion of historical events. Again, being tasteful is still key- if someone started posting rants about the beastly Hun who must be destroyed, then (after chuckling at their charmingly anachronistic racism) we'd infract the shit out of them.
    - "I think that the government may have to use force to quell the Quebecois Confederation before they conquer the vital maple syrup groves." - Okay, again, because it's tasteful, and is discussing a news event (which I just made up).
    - "I think we should round up all the Group X, and do Y Horrible Thing to them." - Not Okay, and I hope I don't need to explain why.
    - "I think that Wally Wallerton who lives at 53. Maple Green Terrace is a bastard, it would be great if someone stabbed him to death." - Not Okay, because it regards a specific individual person, it clearly isn't discussion or criticism of something legitimate, and is clearly distasteful to boot.
    - "That b***h Annatolia Snarkleson deserves what's happening to her, it's happening because of her actions." - Not Okay, because it still regards a specific person, is distasteful (judging this can be difficult), and the Staff have decided that clear examples of victim-blaming count as advocacy/ promotion. The fake name resemblance is intentional by the way; the thing which prompted this decision was GamerGate, and all the awful victim blaming regarding harassment and death threats which was occurring (and still is) relating to that.
    - "I think that while regrettable, you can't deny that what is happening to X wouldn't have happened if not for their actions." - Borderline and the topic of an ongoing discussion (currently stalled) about where exactly the line is drawn with regard to victim-blaming. Currently, we judge it on a case-by-case basis.
    - "I think that we should take Horrible Action X against Group Y in Hypothetical Scenario Z, and by the way Group Y do actually happen to be an armed group, so military actions can legitimately feature in discussion of news events relating to them." - Borderline. On the one hand, it's couched in a hypothetical, so it's hard to see if anything is actually happening to anyone. On the other hand however, talking about nuking regions isn't something we like to see, for obvious reasons. In context, I can completely sympathize with and support Eukie in wanting to stop things before they escalated and people got themselves into trouble.
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    Yes, you can mention how you wish Space Hitler was dead, or that you're glad Real-Hitler is too for that matter. You can talk about how you agree with some war being fought, or some other big bad thing happening, but for chrissake, be an adult about it please. No going off about how you wish so-and-so was drawn and quartered, or about how you want to do such-and-such torture porn to whoever because they're a Bad Person who does Bad Things and all. You can make your point about how "it'd be better if [some dude I don't like] died" without involving power tools and soundproof basements.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • So, we can't talk about how much we wanna murder fictional characters?
    Ah, alright, fine.
    Wonder what's gonna happen to her though.
     
    NuclearNickel said:
    So, we can't talk about how much we wanna murder fictional characters?
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    Read Nuts's post more closely. You can, just not in lurid detail. Too pull two examples: "I really want Cinder/Emerald to die now" is okay while "Evil people do evil things, and should be punished in evil ways. Emerald uses her Semblance to manipulate others and see what she wants them to see. Her punishment should be the removal of her eyes, rendering her incapable of sight" is not.
     
    obssesednuker said:
    Read Nuts's post more closely. You can, just not in lurid detail. Too pull two examples: "I really want Cinder/Emerald to die now" is okay while "Evil people do evil things, and should be punished in evil ways. Emerald uses her Semblance to manipulate others and see what she wants them to see. Her punishment should be the removal of her eyes, rendering her incapable of sight" is not.
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    Ahhh, so no explicit details.
    Mkay then.
     
    Information: information
  • Staff Post
    • obssesednuker said:
    (Emphasis added)

    That'd be redundant though, since real Hitler is already dead. [/pedantry]
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    The moment someone mentions Hitler, then suddenly it's semantic-Nazis everywhere. :mad:

    (thanks tho)



    information
    NuclearNickel said:
    So, we can't talk about how much we wanna murder fictional characters?
    Ah, alright, fine.
    Wonder what's gonna happen to her though.
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    Yes, you can say you want whoever-the-hell to die for whatever bad stuff they've done. What we're expecting is that you do so like an adult, not like an angry teenager who's never actually had to handle actual blood and guts before, or deal with the consequences of death.

    Shit man, I work in a trauma center. Unless anyone here works for an inner-city PD or EMS unit, then I can pretty much guarantee that I've handled more dead and majorly-fucked-up people up than y'all. Trust me, even if someone is a real fucker who just killed an entire family, he's still a human being and feels pain the same way you and I do, and watching them suffer is not a pleasant experience. Saying you'd enjoy that suffering? That you'd like inflicting it on others? Get that shit outta here.

    Obviously, neither the rules nor the staff expect you to be 100%-lily-white about...well, pretty much anything and everything. You can write a story about some irredeemable monster of a human being, and the mods won't bat an eye when people cheer for your fictional awful person biting the bucket. But for the sake of good taste, treat death and suffering as the actual honest-to-God srs bzns it is, and don't post torture-porn.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • Nuts! said:
    The moment someone mentions Hitler, then suddenly it's semantic-Nazis everywhere. :mad:

    (thanks tho)



    [information="information"]

    Yes, you can say you want whoever-the-hell to die for whatever bad stuff they've done. What we're expecting is that you do so like an adult, not like an angry teenager who's never actually had to handle actual blood and guts before, or deal with the consequences of death.

    Shit man, I work in a trauma center. Unless anyone here works for an inner-city PD or EMS unit, then I can pretty much guarantee that I've seen more people die and more people get majorly fucked up than y'all. Trust me, even if someone is a real fucker who just killed innocent people, he's still a human being and still someone who feels pain the same way you and I do, and watching them suffer is not a pleasant experience. Saying you'd enjoy that suffering? That you'd like inflicting it on others? Get that shit outta here.

    Obviously, neither the rules nor the staff expect you to be 100%-on-your-tippy-toes about clearly fictional characters. You can write a story about some irredeemable monster of a human being, and the mods won't bat an eye when people cheer for your fictional awful person biting the bucket. But for the sake of good taste, treat death and suffering as the actual honest-to-God srs bzns it is, and don't post torture-porn.[/information]
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    Gotcha.
    I actually giggled a bit though, as I did volunteer work for the local Rescue Squad for a bit. Saw some deaths, and only one was actually....bloody.
    And I'm also still in high school, which escalated the giggles to full on laughter.
    But eh, I still get the rule.
    Understood.
     
    TheBleachDoctor said:
    He just needs to fire on the city, and make it obvious that an Atlesian airship is destroying the city.
    It seems like Cinder wants to fracture the unity of the kingdoms, as one of her goals.
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    Agreed, in the heat of the moment people are only going to see a ship firing on them, they won't know about it shooting down the others and even if it gets taken down later and the whole thing blames on a criminal it either looks like they're covering for a captain going nuts or incompetent.
    Azecreth said:
    Besides, has there been any evidence thus far that the civilian population of Vale has been mistreated by the Atlesian Army (I'm generally curious) Stuff like that is what tends to alienate people, especially after Atlas helped seal the Breach and capture Roman in the first place.
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    Simply having an army above one's head is enough to make people nervous I feel, I'd certainly be uncomfortable with it even if they didn't do anything wrong.
     
    Zam said:
    Simply having an army above one's head is enough to make people nervous I feel, I'd certainly be uncomfortable with it even if they didn't do anything wrong.
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    On the other hand, there was the atmosphere of fear that Torchwick did a good job of creating in Vale. You know, cop on every street corner and all. That army wasn't running security just for kicks and to spend taxpayer money.
     
    Azecreth said:
    On the other hand, there was the atmosphere of fear that Torchwick did a good job of creating in Vale. You know, cop on every street corner and all. That army wasn't running security just for kicks and to spend taxpayer money.
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    I never said there wasn't a reason for them to be there, just that it'd probably be rather alienating for that to be the case and that its very easy for sense of distance and alienation to be turned to fear and hatred when things go wrong.
     
    Triggerhappy said:
    Edit : I mean personally I think its beautiful that no more than a half dozen lines after Cinder mentions the unchecked power wielded by the Headmasters Ozpin unironically tells Ironwood to quit faffing and send in his fleet.

    The point being, she's actually right. Ozpin and his inner circle appointed themselves the world's secret guardians with discretion above the Kingdoms. Maybe the secrecy was necessary but it's all exploding in their faces now.
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    Uh, no, the ones who gave Ironwood the job of protecting Vale during the Vytal Festival was the city's elected council. Ironwood didn't exactly launch a coup or anything. His authority as both a general and as head of security for the Vytal Festival are completely legitimate and above-board, it's just that from outside they can very easily be made to look like the beginnings of a power grab.
     
    Leingod said:
    Uh, no, the ones who gave Ironwood the job of protecting Vale during the Vytal Festival was the city's elected council. Ironwood didn't exactly launch a coup or anything. His authority as both a general and as head of security for the Vytal Festival are completely legitimate and above-board, it's just that from outside they can very easily be made to look like the beginnings of a power grab.
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    Plus he wasn't originally in charge of security but still brought his army to Vale with him.
     
    Leingod said:
    Uh, no, the ones who gave Ironwood the job of protecting Vale during the Vytal Festival was the city's elected council. Ironwood didn't exactly launch a coup or anything. His authority as both a general and as head of security for the Vytal Festival are completely legitimate and above-board, it's just that from outside they can very easily be made to look like the beginnings of a power grab.
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    I am aware of that. I'm talking about the presentation of the scene.

    Ozpin may be the headmaster of Beacon, but I don't think he's in charge of Vales defenses in the way Ironwood has command over Atlas' army. Yet he calls James right up and tells him to get his ass in gear. When really, that should all be managed by an entirely separate chain of command that doesn't even need to be shown.

    (Vale does have its own military, right?)

    I know it probably wasn't intentional but it comes off as accidentally brilliant to me anyways.
     
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    Triggerhappy said:
    (Vale does have its own military, right?)
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    World of Remnant: Kingdoms says:
    Each kingdom has a governing council to represent the people and their needs. Next, comes the military. While most kingdoms only call on its citizens to serve when needed, others find it important to be... prepared.
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    (via: RWBY wiki transcript)

    Atlas appears to have a standing army, but it is presumed the other kingdoms (including Vale) use militia of various forms.
     
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    Triggerhappy said:
    I am aware of that. I'm talking about the presentation of the scene.

    Ozpin may be the headmaster of Beacon, but I don't think he's in charge of Vales defenses in the way Ironwood has command over Atlas' army. Yet he calls James right up and tells him to get his ass in gear. When really, that should all be managed by an entirely separate chain of command that doesn't even need to be shown.

    (Vale does have its own military, right?)

    I know it probably wasn't intentional but it comes off as accidentally brilliant to me anyways.
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    Er, Ironwood called Ozpin to apologize/explain about Penny. Ozpin was just saying 'not important, now do your job'.
     
    I'm actually really surprised that Ozpin didn't know about Penny. I figured all of the Vague Council of Vagueness knew since she was likely the experiment to bind aura to another object/being.
     
    Ozpin DOES call Ironwood first, and interrupts Ironwood's apologies to order the man to get his army into motion.

    Triggerhappy is right: From a certain point of view, Ozpin is overstepping his official authority as a headmaster, because Ironwood should be answering to the Vale Council who put him in charge of security.

    But it's also reasonable to look at it as Ozpin speaking as Ironwood's personal associate with some personal advice. Like, if Ironwood had a civilian friend with him in that announcer's box, and that civilian was telling Ironwood to stop dithering about and start commanding his forces, that would just be one dude telling another dude to snap out of it, rather than a civilian breaking into a military chain of command.
     
    True. And just thought it was funny. Obviously it's going to stand out more to some people than others.
     
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