Remove ads

RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

Reader mode
Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
    Last edited:
  • Staff Post
    • Azecreth said:
    Alternatively, probably in the months between Volume 1 and Volume 2.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    I'm still reasonably sure that the manga made at least an explicit mention, if not a big deal, about the fact that Naruto and Sasuke had learned a few "cool new jutsu" in the manga's time skip, rather than just letting that be naturally assumed.

    But in any case, this is less about any "flaws" in that manga and more about the poster's small-mindedness.
     
    Last edited:
    I just wanna say thanks for all the hugs and likes for that post I did yesterday, that was really quite comforting after a rather... stressful few days, so thanks, you're all very kind :)

    This time I have something a little more fun to post.

    Matt The Mammoth Rider said:
    It's all right, the RWBY Recap is here to save the day... Because I forgot it was a WoR week and did it early. Yay! Clicky click: RWBY Recap V3C3: It's Brawl In The Family.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Matt The Mammoth Rider said:



    This week, I finally break the silence and acknowledge the existence of Ozpin's penis chair, and some secrets about Ironwood are revealed. Also, my references are more out of control than Jay Baruchel's. Enjoy!
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...


    Also after this it made me think:
    Ozpin - Wizard of Oz
    Glynda - Good Witch
    Ironwood - Tin Man
    Qrow - Scarecrow
    Tai - Cowardly/Sad Lion
    Zwei - Toto
    Meaning, I think:
    Summer - Dorothy
    Raven/Winter - Wicked Witch.
    (I'd have suggested Cinder but she already seems to have the whole Cinderella thing going, though the focus on her shoes could mean she's a witch and possibly a relation of Raven and Qrow but that is going too deep into the speculation bubble and makes things kind of insanely interconnected.)
     
    Remove ads
    On the whole 'Just as Planned' scheme and eye rolling over it. Has it occurred to anyone that Cinder is confident because the 'plan' is actually pretty simple and robust?

    Like the flaw with most Keikaku plots is that they're brain breakingly convoluted and rely on human beings acting like scripted little chess pieces in the hands of an all seeing architect.

    But Cinder doesn't need to be omniscient to know stirring up trouble using the White Fang in Vale would compel a response from Atlas. It wouldn't even need to be successful so long as it came off as dangerously ambitious and very public. Which it was. And so what if the first attempt fails? She can try again until she lands the big honking fleet and army of battle robots.

    She could foresee that with nothing more than a solid grasp of her world's geopolitics.

    Cinder obviously has ins with Atlas weapons manufacturers so a backdoor into their systems isn't inconceivable in a world that runs on television logic. She just needs the fleet to be in the right place at the right time to hijack their guns for a few minutes during what happens to be the greatest moment of international solidarity each year.

    Overall that's not a very complicated plan. It's largely built on Atlas acting reasonably to protect Vale and Ironwood not realizing his weapons have been compromised. Hijacking all of Atlas' targeting systems would be the only unicorn.

    Edit : I mean I could be completely wrong, and probably am :p, but if that's the broad sweep of Cinder's plan I'd give her a 4/5 would plot again.
     
    Last edited:
    Anyone else who watches Rooster Teeth content, mainly Red vs. Blue, getting Project Freelancer vibes from Atlas?
     
    Xkeizer said:
    Or something else happened, possibly related to the war, or some big Grimm invasion that saw the academy catapulted to full leadership.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    All the more reason Atlas's army getting turned against Vale would be a disaster. Doesnt matter if people learn the truth in the aftermath, doesnt matter if Cinder only gets one salvo so long as she brings down the stadium, the damage will already be done and people will remember Atlesian guns are the ones that fired.

    Edit : Also, while killing a hunter is HARD I imagine dropping a stadium on their heads at terminal velocity might just do it.

    How many students and serving hunstmen and huntresses are attending the festival?
     
    Last edited:
    r0b0panda said:
    Anyone else who watches Rooster Teeth content, mainly Red vs. Blue, getting Project Freelancer vibes from Atlas?
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Nnnnot really. Freelancer was headed by a broken man who was focused on results, didn't care about morals, and couldn't get over the death of his wife.Ironwood is a man who cares for the people, tends to not understand the view points of others, and believes a simple, straight-forwards answer is what they need.

    As for the organizations themselves, Atlas is both a training academy and a sovereign power. It's unorthodox yes, but it hasn't done anything 'evil.' Freelancer was a rogue organization actively undermining the UNSC at times.
     
    TheBleachDoctor said:
    "The now defunct kingdom of Mantle"
    ...
    Did Atlas stage a coup?!
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    My reigning theory is that Mantle fell during the Faunus Liberation War and Atlas rose to replace them and managed to settle things peacefully with the Faunus and led to the creation of the WF. Except, well, kind of a case of the old boss is the same as the new boss only with a fresh coat of paint.
     
    Zam said:
    My reigning theory is that Mantle fell during the Faunus Liberation War and Atlas rose to replace them and managed to settle things peacefully with the Faunus and led to the creation of the WF. Except, well, kind of a case of the old boss is the same as the new boss only with a fresh coat of paint.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    The New Boss also has murder robots. Do remember that.

    Standard rule of popular fiction. When the good guys have non-sapient robots that can be used in the place of flesh and blood soldiers those robots will be hijacked by the bad guys.
     
    Last edited:
    Although now that I think about it the fact that Winter is an Atlas specialist and that Atlas is both the school and the government is probably the reason why Weiss is the heiress to the company even though she is younger. Because with her military mindset and position odds are if Winter inherited the company then Atlas would end up in full control of it.
     
    Triggerhappy said:
    Well RWBY is not a show with pretensions of complexity. Honestly there's nothing wrong a story's plot and conflict being simple.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    I think it shows more hints at complexity as it goes along. Which in of itself is kind of interesting as it could be seen as reflective of team RWBY's growing knowledge, awareness and maturity. In some ways I almost find the simplistic aspects more realistic as well, much like your observations about Cinder's plan.

    Rather than going for the Light/Lelouch/ETC Style of villains plans relying on micro managing a sever different thinking, feeling people's reactions from a distance without full knowledge of their life experience and current info or allies, she instead just does stuff that would logically get the result she wants through a basic understanding of, as you said, geopolitics.

    The same could apply for the virus/AI, and whatever else she's planned.
     
    Zam said:
    Rather than going for the Light/Lelouch/ETC Style of villains plans relying on micro managing a sever different thinking, feeling people's reactions from a distance without full knowledge of their life experience and current info or allies, she instead just does stuff that would logically get the result she wants through a basic understanding of, as you said, geopolitics.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Interestingly enough I was just discussing this topic in a PM and what we concluded was that :

    I think part of what causes plans to become so convoluted in fiction is that authors and readers have severely skewed expectations about what a successful plan or a successful conspiracy is going to look like. And also a severely skewered perception of what a plan or conspiracy will look like when created from whole cloth.

    For instance most battle plans, strategies, and tactics, are actually fairly straight forward in their broad strokes. They may not be obvious but the reasoning, once discovered, can usually be explained and followed without too much trouble. There is a great deal of sophistication in their details and execution and it is the work of lifetime to achieve mastery, but the underlying principles are to some extent straight forward.

    Complexity arises when plans are observed through the lens of history . Through imperfect accounts. Through chronicles of what actually happened versus what was planned to happen and the actions and initiatives that allowed the plan to succeed or succumb.

    The problem is that in most fiction, we the readers are in a preternatural position to see the plan unfolding, suddenly any 'reasonably' sophisticated plan is going to fall short of the expectations of us all seeing armchair schemers unless the author instead focus' on obfuscating the details. But most authors don't do that. Instead they begin to attribute the clarity that we as readers and they as writers possess to their scheming character and their plans.
     
    Last edited:
    Triggerhappy said:
    Through chronicles of what actually happened versus what was planned to happen and the actions and initiatives that allowed the plan to succeed or succumb.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Yeah, people underestimate the effectiveness and importance of improvisation in big plans. You really want room to improvise, because you can't expect perfect information so there's going to be something that doesn't go right. So the people on the ground need to be free to react within the bounds of your plan.
    If Cinder has a broad strokes plan with lots of wiggle room, she may actually be one of the smartest villains in recent media.
     
    Triggerhappy said:
    Interestingly enough I was just discussing this topic in a PM and what we concluded was that :

    I think part of what causes plans to become so convoluted in fiction is that authors and readers have severely skewed expectations about what a successful plan or a successful conspiracy is going to look like. And also a severely skewered perception of what a plan or conspiracy will look like when created from whole cloth.

    For instance most battle plans, strategies, and tactics, are actually fairly straight forward in their broad strokes. They may not be obvious but the reasoning, once discovered, can usually be explained and followed without too much trouble. There is a great deal of sophistication in their details and execution and it is the work of lifetime to achieve mastery, but the underlying principles are to some extent straight forward.

    Complexity arises when plans are observed through the lens of history . Through imperfect accounts. Through chronicles of what actually happened versus what was planned to happen and the actions and initiatives that allowed the plan to succeed or succumb.

    The problem is that in most fiction, we the readers are in a preternatural position to see the plan unfolding, suddenly any 'reasonably' sophisticated plan is going to fall short of the expectations of us all seeing armchair schemers unless the author instead focus' on obfuscating the details. But most authors don't do that. Instead they begin to attribute the clarity that we as readers and they as writers possess to their scheming character and their plans.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    I genuinely can't think of much t add to this beyond commenting on how insightful it is. Though I am reminded of Halk Onlines line via Karin about plans built around the enemy acting a certain way are doomed to fail.
     
    I do not think the Atlas military is a threat to Vale, nobody s even nominally worried that Atlas is about to make a move. I think a conventional fighting force is just that outgunned by hunters.

    As for Cinder's plan, what if she considered it a success because the basic goal was met instead of a larger overarching one? We have seen ironwood is brash and believes that reacting strongly first and then assessing as things develop works better. He is a hammer and nails type of guy wanting to fix problems by using his hammer on all the problematic nails. Now I do not think he is foolish but he has a certain direct mindset. I imagine Cinder knows this, Cinder also had to know the breach would be plugged and the perpetrator found. She made a point of having Roman caught and delivered to Ironwood, now there are a few things that can come from breach we could see then and now. The obvious part is the distraction, that part failed as she was not in position to take advantage of it. Emerald and her friends were shown working to fight the grimm and catch Roman, this brings them closer to RWBY and Emerald seems to be continuing that mission. The last part I want to make a note of is Roman is now being interrogated by Ironwood, Roman is good at lieing. It does not matter how much Ironwood believes but Roman is able to feed false information to get Ironwood looking in the wrong direction, if she can use Ironwood to divert resources that will keep in line with her plan.

    edit: Just realized my theory works with Cinder's line about taking away what power they have if that is her modus operandi.
     
    Last edited:
    Personally, I don't think the robot hijacking is going to happen. Or rather, at the very least it won't be all the robots, and just some of them. And there's a simple reason for that. Ironwood knows that Cinder or someone working for Cinder broke into the CCT Tower that night at the dance. Which means they probably screwed with the electronics there. So while it may have gotten onto his phone, I'd say there's a good bet that he's got his people working on some sort of failsafe in case of 'robots go crazy'.

    Even if it is a murderbot limit ;)
     
    Sinsystems said:
    Although now that I think about it the fact that Winter is an Atlas specialist and that Atlas is both the school and the government is probably the reason why Weiss is the heiress to the company even though she is younger. Because with her military mindset and position odds are if Winter inherited the company then Atlas would end up in full control of it.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    And from what Weiss said to her team at Mountain Glenn, she wants to fix the wrongs the Schnee family has done. She probably would have been less successful if she was still as prejudiced in Volume 1, but she wants to fix things. Being in Atlas and the heir to a company supplying the military she would be workign for... Can you really imagine she wouldn't have been forced to join the 'Old Boys Club'?
     
    Xero Key said:
    And from what Weiss said to her team at Mountain Glenn, she wants to fix the wrongs the Schnee family has done. She probably would have been less successful if she was still as prejudiced in Volume 1, but she wants to fix things. Being in Atlas and the heir to a company supplying the military she would be workign for... Can you really imagine she wouldn't have been forced to join the 'Old Boys Club'?
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    It's probably the reason why Weiss was able to persuade her father to let her go to Beacon, because he didn't want her to end up in the Atlas military like Winter.
     
    Xero Key said:
    And from what Weiss said to her team at Mountain Glenn, she wants to fix the wrongs the Schnee family has done. She probably would have been less successful if she was still as prejudiced in Volume 1, but she wants to fix things. Being in Atlas and the heir to a company supplying the military she would be workign for... Can you really imagine she wouldn't have been forced to join the 'Old Boys Club'?
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Weiss said her motive for attending Beacon and becoming a Huntress was so that she could try to undo her families wrongs, so I think she'd have still made the effort regardless.
     
    Reader mode
    You must login or register to reply here.
    Remove ads
    Back
    Top