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RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • Cinder's probably at or near the highest she's ever going to rise. She may get another maiden power but I'm not sure. She honestly thinks team RWBY is dead, so when they inevitably return she is going to flip out.

    I also think that it is possible that if the souls of the dead interact with the heroes Rhodes may be one of them. He may tell them Cinder's past, express regret for failing to do more for her. As such when the team confronts Cinder again we get an exchange like this.

    A.) Ruby reveals they met Rhodes. Cue CInder's eyes widening in shock.
    B.) Ruby expresses sympathy even after everything that happened, and makes an attempt to reach her.
    C.) Cinder being Cinder, she angrily rejects it, at which point we get the final battle.
    D.) Cinder either dies, or is somehow stripped of her powers and defeated.
     
    Pugman said:
    poor Qrow
    He is probably only now realizing he can't reach the kids. He has no idea what happened to anyone.
    Then when he and the others eventually reach Vacuo it's going to be Winter that explains to him what happened, and oooooh boi is he going to be upset.
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    Something I really want to see next volume is Raven finally getting her shit together and comes along with Tai to help only to
    find out she can't teleport to where Yang (or Ruby, dunno if she has a portal for Ruby) is, which would be a "they are 100% dead" as far as Qrow would be concerned. And then he should tear her down verbally for not getting her shit in order in time.


    Also, I am not too happy that Jaune is along for the ride, RWBY, Neo and a bunch of civvies (hope RT will not forget about them) is more than enough.

    With Watts dead, then unless we encounter new characters, Salem's only minions are Cinder and Tyrian (assuming Mercury switches sides with the help of Emerald). Her crew really got smaller this season.

    As for Penny

    I don't actually mind her dying, especially since she might be brought back by Pietro.

    With that being said, where the hell are Pietro and Maria? Unless I missed something, they haven't appeared in a while, but no one ever talked about them (so they can't be dead).

    Edit2: Also also, in regards to Ironwood

    If he died in the crash... Then he really got what's coming for him.

    I wouldn't actually mind seeing him survive and come few volumes from now to sacrifice his life for a good cause. At the start of this volume, I thought he was redeemable, but no longer. If he's still alive, the most he can achieve is a good death.
     
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    Itaywex said:
    With that being said, where the hell are Pietro and Maria? Unless I missed something, they haven't appeared in a while, but no one ever talked about them (so they can't be dead).
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    I find it odd that so many people are asking or complaining about this.
    When Pietro tells Penny about the damaged stabilizer he says that Amity will keep drifting and come down just north of ____ and then he's cut off before he can elaborate.


    To me this was a super obvious foreshadowing that Pietro and Maria would exit the volume and will reapper to surprise our heroes in a later volume by coming down with Amity in an unexpected location like Shade, Patch or Menagerie.


    Why keep Amity's landing spot a secret if not to hide where Ruby or team green will meet them in a later volume after all.
     
    I feel a sense of wasted potential when it comes to the death of Penny. The knowledge that if the death is final, there will be no more lovely interactions with everyone's favorite artificial soul, create a sense of dissatisfaction, disappointment, and hollowness that steadily drains the sadness I felt with the death, and makes me dread the pain and knock on effects that said death will cause.

    The exact same thing I feel with actual death. You've done the death well from my perspective CRWBY.
     
    LordYam said:
    Cinder's probably at or near the highest she's ever going to rise. She may get another maiden power but I'm not sure. She honestly thinks team RWBY is dead, so when they inevitably return she is going to flip out.

    I also think that it is possible that if the souls of the dead interact with the heroes Rhodes may be one of them. He may tell them Cinder's past, express regret for failing to do more for her. As such when the team confronts Cinder again we get an exchange like this.

    A.) Ruby reveals they met Rhodes. Cue CInder's eyes widening in shock.
    B.) Ruby expresses sympathy even after everything that happened, and makes an attempt to reach her.
    C.) Cinder being Cinder, she angrily rejects it, at which point we get the final battle.
    D.) Cinder either dies, or is somehow stripped of her powers and defeated.
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    Would love for Cinder to echo Salem's words to Oz during the Monstra fight when she sees Ruby again "WHY WON'T YOU F'ING DIE?!?!"
     
    Man, there are so many people stuck in the denial phase of grief. Guys, Penny is gone. You know why they went through the trouble of making her a real girl to just kill her two episodes later? To remove the possibility of resurrection. She's not coming back, guys. And both the characters and we the fans now have to deal with the emptiness of her loss.
     
    Erinyes said:
    Man, there are so many people stuck in the denial phase of grief. Guys, Penny is gone. You know why they went through the trouble of making her a real girl to just kill her two episodes later? To remove the possibility of resurrection. She's not coming back, guys. And both the characters and we the fans now have to deal with the emptiness of her loss.
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    You know that they'll end up in the Anger phase soon...

    That will be fun.
     
    Pugman said:
    Klein the butler is all 7 in one.
    Another option would be the 7 friends Weiss made at Beacon (RBY + JNPR)
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    Which is funny since almost all of them are taller than her, IIRC? I think Ruby is the only one shorter than Weiss. I'm not sure about Nora's height, I can't recall if she is taller or shorter than Weiss. Regardless, point is: RBY+JNPR being Weiss's Dwarfs is funny because they aren't Dwarfs in any sense of the word.
     
    A thought about Jaune
    anyone notice how Cinder didn't just break his sword, but also specifically broke off the portion that was covered in Penny's blood?


    I feel like there might be some symbolism there, especially considering that Jaune's inspiration Joan of Arc was not famed for her swordsmanship but instead for her skills as a charismatic leader that served as a rallying point and who had a keen(ish) tactical mind that made good use of her resources.


    Well Jaune has never been super great with a sword and now his sword is broken in a very traumatic event where he took an innocent life because he saw no other option. And aside from IRL Joan he also draws on fantasy style Knights/Paladins with their supernatural (often faith based) healing and support powers. So I wonder if this might lead to development where Jaune can't bear to use a sword (a tool for killing) again and instead switches to a hardcore focus on his role as healer, leader and support.


    Basically a character arc similar to that moment in Battle for Azeroth where Anduin gives up on being a great warrior like his father and instead puts his faith in The Light:





    As for what his weapon would be. Well he would keep the shield obviously. As for his off hand? Well the choice became obvious in retrospect.

    On the one hand, Joan stated that she carried her banner in battle and had never killed anyone,[47]​ preferring her banner "forty times" better than a sword;[​
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    As for how that would work in RWBY? Maybe this magic dimension will have some magic items like the artifact that enhances Aura regeneration speed to a massive extent that's been mentioned in the Grimm Campaign. Maybe Jaune will commision someone (maybe one of his sisters) to make a Dustweave banner for him. Maybe part of the point of the spear/banner will just be to let him extend the reach of his Aura Amplification and isn't special otherwise besides possibly also being a gun.


    Anyway, I'd certainly like something like this a lot better than Jaune picking up Excalibur/The Sword of Destruction like I've seen some people suggesting. I just don't think that fits his character at all and would focus too much on placing him front and center when like Elan from Order of the Stick he works best as and is most comfortable in the role of Support and Healer (and also tank and leader I suppose, but those can be filed under Support in RWBY).
     
    Penny video



    Mook said:
    A thought about Jaune
    anyone notice how Cinder didn't just break his sword, but also specifically broke off the portion that was covered in Penny's blood?


    I feel like there might be some symbolism there, especially considering that Jaune's inspiration Joan of Arc was not famed for her swordsmanship but instead for her skills as a charismatic leader that served as a rallying point and who had a keen(ish) tactical mind that made good use of her resources.


    Well Jaune has never been super great with a sword and now his sword is broken in a very traumatic event where he took an innocent life because he saw no other option. And aside from IRL Joan he also draws on fantasy style Knights/Paladins with their supernatural (often faith based) healing and support powers. So I wonder if this might lead to development where Jaune can't bear to use a sword (a tool for killing) again and instead switches to a hardcore focus on his role as healer, leader and support.


    Basically a character arc similar to that moment in Battle for Azeroth where Anduin gives up on being a great warrior like his father and instead puts his faith in The Light:





    As for what his weapon would be. Well he would keep the shield obviously. As for his off hand? Well the choice became obvious in retrospect.




    As for how that would work in RWBY? Maybe this magic dimension will have some magic items like the artifact that enhances Aura regeneration speed to a massive extent that's been mentioned in the Grimm Campaign. Maybe Jaune will commision someone (maybe one of his sisters) to make a Dustweave banner for him. Maybe part of the point of the spear/banner will just be to let him extend the reach of his Aura Amplification and isn't special otherwise besides possibly also being a gun.


    Anyway, I'd certainly like something like this a lot better than Jaune picking up Excalibur/The Sword of Destruction like I've seen some people suggesting. I just don't think that fits his character at all and would focus too much on placing him front and center when like Elan from Order of the Stick he works best as and is most comfortable in the role of Support and Healer (and also tank and leader I suppose, but those can be filed under Support in RWBY).
    Click to expand...
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    Well back in the montage in V7 Vine did ask if Jaune ever tried to project his aura.
    So with Banner in hand and a cry to his allies he upgrades from single target heals/amps and now has aoe/group heals as an option.
    I like it.
    But what should we call it?
     
    So, I don't like the gods. I feel I should lead with that, because it definitely changes how I view things. They are, at best, abusive in the same way many, many parents are. I don't even just mean abusive parents, either, lots of "normal" ones fail to respect their children as having any real rights beyond what their parents want them to do. And there's some good reason for that, with adults generally knowing more about dangers and needing kids to listen quickly in dangerous situations... but it also fucks people up. A lot. Good parents still fuck their children up. And I don't know that the Brothers were all that Good to begin with.

    The thing that's been occurring to me as I got back into RWBY (and rewatched much of it, especially V6 for the reminder of where things were heading into V7), is that the God of Light absolutely primes Ozma to abandon Salem. And she's... not quite as the GoL describes? She's a scary witch in the woods, but she doesn't seem to be all that actively evil at that time. No moreso than a lot of people, at any rate, despite her extra power.

    Then Oz gets sent back after having been told: the gods left Remnant, that Oz needs to unite humanity (a nebulous goal that, notably, wasn't even vaguely the case when the gods were actively there), and that Salem is a bit evil and Oz will only find pain if he goes to find her.

    So Oz goes and finds her, they have kids, he tells her about the gods, she gets pissed that he wants them back, their kids have magic, she has her genocide plan, great googly moogly it all goes to shit. But, notably... Oz doesn't at that point know what happened to Salem, particularly after the gods left, and maybe even after he died. Similarly, he doesn't tell her that he came to her against the GoL's wishes, and she seems to think that means he used her.

    And yet, I think the gods used Oz. I don't know how intentional it is, but with the current info we have, uh... it seems a little like the gods (or at least the God of Light) saw that Salem was carrying on with the whole "being alive and not repenting even after we cursed her" thing and decided to toss another curse in on her: breaking some part of the very laws he insisted on maintaining when he denied her to bring back the man she wanted in the first place, setting that man against her, and leaving them to fight each other forever so that Salem couldn't maintain a life that'd let her come to peace with just being immortal.

    Because, also? The gods 100% fucked around with Remnant more after they "left". The two in-universe Faunus creation myths involve "a" God of Animals that sounds a lot like one or both of the Brothers in appearance. And even then, the God of Darkness wiped out all of humanity... so, like, people ask where the Faunus came from, including me... but where did all the humans come from? Did they just happen to evolve like they did on Earth, meaning Salem was alone for maybe literally millions of years, and then just happen to turn out the same way? Did the GoD just miss a few spots and Jinn glossed over that part?

    I dunno. It just really feels like Ozma wasn't actually sent back so much to "help" humanity as to further punish Salem to try and teach her her lesson (the lesson being "never question us" at least as much as "appreciate life and death both").

    Because also, I don't think bringing the Relics together will kill Salem. Maybe if the heroes talk the Brothers into thinking humanity is united, they'll let her die. But even if they judge otherwise and wipe everyone out? I don't think they'll give Salem peace in death. They'll just empty the planet of life again and leave her there, alone. I think they want to punish her way more than they care about their weird lesson.

    The Brothers were wrong about a lot of stuff, their punishments are extreme, and they refuse to take on any culpability for the choices that others make even if they push people into making those choices. I'm hoping RWBY doesn't end with the world on good terms with the gods again (at least, not on the gods' terms alone), but we'll have to see. Even if it does, though, I still feel like they set both Salem and Ozma up to fail, then blamed them for not succeeding rather than acknowledging their own imperfections.

    Been thinking on this for a while, and wrote this all just now, so hopefully it made sense and I didn't forget much.

    Mook said:
    A thought about Jaune
    anyone notice how Cinder didn't just break his sword, but also specifically broke off the portion that was covered in Penny's blood?


    I feel like there might be some symbolism there, especially considering that Jaune's inspiration Joan of Arc was not famed for her swordsmanship but instead for her skills as a charismatic leader that served as a rallying point and who had a keen(ish) tactical mind that made good use of her resources.


    Well Jaune has never been super great with a sword and now his sword is broken in a very traumatic event where he took an innocent life because he saw no other option. And aside from IRL Joan he also draws on fantasy style Knights/Paladins with their supernatural (often faith based) healing and support powers. So I wonder if this might lead to development where Jaune can't bear to use a sword (a tool for killing) again and instead switches to a hardcore focus on his role as healer, leader and support.


    Basically a character arc similar to that moment in Battle for Azeroth where Anduin gives up on being a great warrior like his father and instead puts his faith in The Light:





    As for what his weapon would be. Well he would keep the shield obviously. As for his off hand? Well the choice became obvious in retrospect.




    As for how that would work in RWBY? Maybe this magic dimension will have some magic items like the artifact that enhances Aura regeneration speed to a massive extent that's been mentioned in the Grimm Campaign. Maybe Jaune will commision someone (maybe one of his sisters) to make a Dustweave banner for him. Maybe part of the point of the spear/banner will just be to let him extend the reach of his Aura Amplification and isn't special otherwise besides possibly also being a gun.


    Anyway, I'd certainly like something like this a lot better than Jaune picking up Excalibur/The Sword of Destruction like I've seen some people suggesting. I just don't think that fits his character at all and would focus too much on placing him front and center when like Elan from Order of the Stick he works best as and is most comfortable in the role of Support and Healer (and also tank and leader I suppose, but those can be filed under Support in RWBY).
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    I've seen some people saying that him giving up his use of the sword would sever his last connection to Pyrrha, and like... that's not wrong, but I also think that might be more meaningful? Letting him connect to her through his desire to help people (like she always wanted) rather than keeping up the sword practice so much. It might be hard, but that doesn't mean it'd be the wrong thing to do.

    And if he does end up using the Sword of Destruction, frankly that should be the only other sword he wields and he should spend some time doing things that aren't Swords or Destruction to make it all... fit better. That sword, if he ever uses it, won't be around until Volume 11 if the current ratio is maintained, or at least Volume 10. Deciding against wielding a sword again and then eventually having to is better than him just replacing his sword now and then upgrading it later.

    Which isn't to say I much want him to wield it, and I'm not sure how safe it is to wield or if it's even really a viable weapon despite being a Sword made for Destruction. But if he's going to, he needs to give up swords for a while first, and focus on the aspects of himself that actually matter.
     
    more videos of THAT song




    I feel like Penny is dead dead, and I'm OK with it.
    I mean let's look at a few things.

    Back at Beacon things were starting to look up for Pyrrha, especially after the dance. Had the Amber situation not of pressed Ozpin in picking Pyrrha early or everything at Vytal happening then chances are Pyrrha could of slowly worked on her courage to properly talk to Jaune about things. But life was unfair and "Destiny" called.
    Now here in Atlas things were finally looking up for our heroes. The plan was going well. Penny was bug free and alive. Penny could begin to experience what it meant to be human. But fate was cruel once more and Cinder forced hands.
    Both Pyrrha and now Penny made their choices, and their friends have to figure out how to pick up the pieces in the aftermath.

    Even the opening of this volume warned that sometimes things end before they really begin.
    "Some roses will never bloom.
    Some dreams will rot on the vine.
    Some lives will end much to soon.
    Some evil will never ever die."

    BUT I don't think RT wants us to give up or be absolutely broken by Penny's death, because that credit song "Friend"....that is a celebration. It is a song basically celebrating the life of Penny and how she felt in finding a friend. It was a short life, but just having that friend made that life worth it.

    So everyone *raises a glass* to Penny Polendina! We did not have much time with her, but every moment she was on our screen it was a joy.
    CHEERS![/spoilers]
     
    LordYam said:
    I see a lot of people on Twitter saying that Rwby should have trusted ironwood and that he had earned their trust
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    Who is the one that is a solitary figure that refuses to have anyone that questions their plans in power?

    Who is the one who's right and left hand were picked for their loyalty to him personally, and who never question his plans?

    Who is the one that treats people that publically denounce him as traitors equal to the people trying to genocide his country?

    Who is the one with trust issues?
     
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