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RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • Teen Spirit said:
    Because Penny was a rather Unique being when she died and thematically it does not make sense for this to be the end of her story.
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    There certainly seems to be something up with that.

    link


    Though looking at things from a darker perspective the build up could be towards how Penny finally managing to sacrifice herself for the needs of the many is going to completely destroy Ruby, Jaune and Winter (when she finds out).



    It would be kind of interesting if Ruby actually gets mad at Penny for not valuing her own life enough and always putting others before herself.
     
    The more I think about Penny's death, the less I like it. So, first of all, killing off the same character twice seems cheap. But if they were really determined to do it, it could have been handled much better than it actually was. They already went through this exact same narrative beat of "kill me so I can give the power to you" back in episode 11. Literally just don't do that. Don't cure the virus, don't turn Penny into a real girl. Now the same thing goes down, she's fighting Cinder, except this time she's still fighting the virus too, which justifies why she's doing so badly. She takes a bad hit, she's knocked away and her aura is broken. She's about to succumb to the virus, but then she sees Cinder about to kill Weiss. With the last ounce of her willpower, she jumps between Cinder and Weiss just like Yang did with Ruby. With no aura, Cinder's attack kills her. And now you can go to the scene with Penny and Winter in the void, and now you can have Penny finally being a real girl. If they'd done it like that, I still would have been annoyed, because again, it's tacky to bring a character back just to off them a second time. But it would have felt a lot less jarring than the way they actually did it. It would have ended Penny's arc with her becoming a real girl, rather than baiting us with a new arc and then going "sike!" And it also would have avoided the awkwardness with Jaune, which I know a lot of people are pissed about.
     
    Teen Spirit said:
    Here's the thing. rules of resurrection have never applied to Penny. First because she had a machine body, and now she's now something even the Relic of Creation doesn't fully understand. And no revives has never been a hard universal rule. It's a rule imposed by the brothers because they don't like it. But it still happens. Ozpin died once and he's still around after all.
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    When Pen1 died to entanglement slicing many in the fandom were sad, but also felt confident that she could be brought back because Robot. Only hang ups were "would she still be "Penny"?" and "would she remember her friends?" Both turned out to be "Yes" when we got to Atlas, but then we found out the How and Why of Penny's existence and with it a set limit. We learned that Pietro was giving chunks of himself to restart his daughter and that he was unsure if he could survive the next time. Thus she had "1 revive" left. Now in Volume 8 I feel you could say it came to a head. She "lost" the life she was currently on to the virus but Ruby managed to save her and get her to that "third life" with Ambrosius. However, in this quest to save her and even make her a "real girl" we ended up having the ol Monkey's Paw curl it's fingers on us sooner than we were ready for as Cinder put her claws in Penny's now fleshy body. That "1 revive left" is used up. Penny has "died" 3 times.
    No rebuilding. No reviving.
    It may not be the "Happily Ever After" we wanted for her, but she still "Lived."
     
    Unsure of why the whole "Placing the life of other entities before your own." thing is considered anathema.
     
    I think the cool flood waters of a major Egyptian river are gently lapping at several of your ankles.

    She's gone, guys. "Let (her) rest."
     
    Matrix Dragon said:
    It's not. The manner in which one considers themselves expendible can be. Keep in mind, this ep also had Vine sacrifice himself, and no one is saying that was the wrong call.
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    counterpoint
    the fandom was not nearly as attached or invested in Vine the entire time we knew him, meanwhile Penny has been the precious cinnamon roll everyone wants to protect and shower with good things ever since she crashed into our lives.


    Erinyes said:
    I think the cool flood waters of a major Egyptian river are gently lapping at several of your ankles.

    She's gone, guys. "Let (her) rest."
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    Fully agreed.


    as for what is to come
    I have come across 2 fanfics so far that more or less show how I HOPE the reunion between Jaune and Ruby goes. With Ruby NOT blaming or hating Jaune while still being upset about the loss of Penny.
     
    well, I just realized something that Lancaster now has in common
    They both couldn't save someone important to their first best friend.
    Ruby failed to save Pyrrha, and Jaune failed to save Penny.
    Now they can cry about being failures together!
     
    I got to say I've noticed a fair of amount of people on Tumblr seem to headcanon May Marigold and Winter dating back in their Academy days. And I'm not sure if I like it or reject it because I think Winter has never dated anyone, ever.

    She doesn't strike me as Ace she strikes me as someone who basically buried herself in school work the moment she entered the Academy.
     
    Pugman said:
    Because people refuse to let go of characters, much like how Salem couldn't deal with Ozma dying and being told "No you can't have your bae back."
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    Way to be completely and utterly disrespectful of a grieving abuse victim who had no support network wanting someone she cared about back because his death was pointless and tragic and even getting it form one of the gods before the other decided to sabotage that by wounding his little brothers ego.
    Teen Spirit said:
    Here's the thing. rules of resurrection have never applied to Penny. First because she had a machine body, and now she's now something even the Relic of Creation doesn't fully understand. And no revives has never been a hard universal rule. It's a rule imposed by the brothers because they don't like it. But it still happens. Ozpin died once and he's still around after all.
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    Exactly, people keep ignoring this but death isn't innate to RWBY's setting. its not inherent, its not natural or enforced by anything except the brother gods edicts which they can and will violate on a whim.
    Pugman said:
    as for what is to come
    undefined
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    I really feel you are continually ignoring what people actually want out of that meeting in favor of "Jaune and Penny made no mistakes, this was a perfectly rational and reasonable thing to do, anyone who disagree just want poor Jaune to suffer" response.
    Teen Spirit said:
    I got to say I've noticed a fair of amount of people on Tumblr seem to headcanon May Marigold and Winter dating back in their Academy days. And I'm not sure if I like it or reject it because I think Winter has never dated anyone, ever.

    She doesn't strike me as Ace she strikes me as someone who basically buried herself in school work the moment she entered the Academy.
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    Worth noting the main way I've usually seen the relationship explained was that they were both sort of expected to date and did it to please their families.
     
    Teen Spirit said:
    I got to say I've noticed a fair of amount of people on Tumblr seem to headcanon May Marigold and Winter dating back in their Academy days. And I'm not sure if I like it or reject it because I think Winter has never dated anyone, ever.

    She doesn't strike me as Ace she strikes me as someone who basically buried herself in school work the moment she entered the Academy.
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    I can see both possibilities. The dating path would not be a pleasant one, I suspect. The heirs to two major Atlas families, and given how May's spoken of her parents, they're are least as bad as Jacques was... They were definitely pushed together regardless of what they wanted.
     
    The general consensus on tvtropes discussion forum is that Ruby and the others were not given the development they needed. I think that to some degree they crammed a lot in a short time
     
    LordYam said:
    The general consensus on tvtropes discussion forum is that Ruby and the others were not given the development they needed. I think that to some degree they crammed a lot in a short time
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    I don't take much of what TV Tropes says seriously, especially given RWBY's an ongoing show and so that view seems rather... definitive, especially for a volume that took place over like, 2 days.
     
    Zam said:
    I don't take much of what TV Tropes says seriously, especially given RWBY's an ongoing show and so that view seems rather... definitive, especially for a volume that took place over like, 2 days.
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    TVTropes and I have... issues, dating back to the owners attempt to gaslight a friend of mine, then revise the sites history to pretend he never existed.
     
    RWBY/Justice League is out. First four digital issues are up on comixology, with three introduction stories for Clark, Diana and Bruce, with a few surprising details of their origins kept in, and the last issue being the threat that unifies the group. Deviates/Is set during the first school break at Beacon.

    Someone/Something is kidnapping huntsmen and huntsmen students, including JNPR, and Ozpin is keeping the bulk of the students scattered. Strange, multicoloured Grimm with the ability to hynotise people have made appearances. Having already encountered the threat before returning to Beacon, RWBY and their new friends end up spear heading the investigation.
     
    Zam said:
    Way to be completely and utterly disrespectful of a grieving abuse victim who had no support network wanting someone she cared about back because his death was pointless and tragic and even getting it form one of the gods before the other decided to sabotage that by wounding his little brothers ego.
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    And just because Salem was abused by her father is and will never be an excuse for her tricking armies of people to follow her on a march against the Gods when even she wasn't sure they would even be able to do anything. Heck, everyone directed their attack at Dark first, the GOD OF DESTRUCTION! What did they think would happen? That he'd scold them and tell them to go away?
    Think it it this way. Jaune has lost Pyrrha in an action that was tragic and to some pointless. Now Ruby is in the same boat with the death of Penny, not to mention she, Yang, and the 3 remaining people of Team STRQ each probably miss Summer. Ren lost both his parents in one horrible night. etc. etc. A number of characters, both main and secondary, have all lost someone. Should they all beg and plead to the Gods to have their lost loved ones returned to them? No. Would these characters beg and plead to the Gods for them back? No. The CRWBY and RoosterTeeth as a whole deeply miss their friend Monty and likely feel he was taken too soon. And yet.....they kept moving forward. Just like our protagonists. Death and loss hurt. We ALL have lost a loved one. And yet we are still standing.
    Dark only gave Salem Oz back because he thought that for once someone came to HIM first, and relented and agreed with his brother when it was pointed out that she had not sought him out first. It was not wounded pride.
    Death sucks, but like it or not it is a part of life. All living things die. This show is basically the "Indomitable Spirit Of Humanity" (a phrase quoted from Monty and played up in the volume 6 song "Indomitable") VS Death and it's aftermath. Pyrrha? She died, but her spirit and drive to protect others lives on in her teammates. Penny? Her time was short, but it was so full of light and love. Summer? She was Super-Mom and Yang and Ruby have carried bits of her with them ever since. etc. etc. As things stand currently, Jaune is doing what Salem should of done. Accepted that Ozma was gone, but continued to live on in his stead. Salem's time with Oz was short, but he had gotten her out of that tower. She was free. She could of done so much else. But she couldn't. She couldn't move forward. And thus she is eventually cursed with immortality, the ultimate sign of being unable to move forward, and cursed to be that way until she understood.

    I do feel bad for Past Salem in that she lost the one she loved, but she dug her own grave in a sense by trying to rage against the Gods even when they told her how to break her curse.
     
    Pugman said:
    I do feel bad for Past Salem in that she lost the one she loved, but she dug her own grave in a sense by trying to rage against the Gods even when they told her how to break her curse.
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    Nope. Her raising an army to strike back against the gods was entirely justified given the bullshit they'd already pulled. And then they murdered an entire planet of innocent people who had nothing to do with Salem. Fuck them with a duck penis right in their eyeless sockets.
     
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