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RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • That was quite a good Volume, all in all. I got back into the show after falling off post-Volume 6 (not for any actual reason, I just forget about things at times, and spent most of 2019 and 2020 doing... not great), and I'm glad I did.

    Oof. Hurts to see her die, but I also think she might be a bit literal about being with Winter. Remember, no one made her body. Ambrosius made another robot out of all her parts, and then her soul was just... also there. And suddenly a living human. But before that, she was a soul.

    I don't know if Pietro could rebuild her with any kind of memory backup, or if that'd be worse in many ways, though I could absolutely seeing him dying to bring her back given how clearly he loves her.

    I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm not in love with the choice made overall, and I don't really think we'll be seeing her again (while I did after V3). But I'm hoping I'll be proven wrong, in some capacity.

    Zero surprises here. Well, no, I've seen people talking about how good his plan was and how RWBY shouldn't have opposed him and how this whole volume is against character, and all of that kind of surprises me. But nothing in the show did.

    His plan? Terrible. "Let's go above where the Grimm are." Sure, buddy. Salem won't just... make Grimm that can go higher as soon as there are people there she needs to get to. You're probably going to hit the point where Dust starts fucking up if you hit a point where Grimm actually can't exist, and there's probably plenty of other issues with having the whole city survive at that altitude for an extended period. It's a bad plan made by a panicking man.

    His semblance? Eh. Maybe it contributed, but nothing he did required it. If I hadn't read about it in someone's complaining I wouldn't have known, and his actions all made sense for who he was.

    Against character? Nnno. He was very carefully pushed like this by Salem's team as part of the plan at Beacon. They took additional steps to make sure he'd crack, and he very nearly held out... which makes it all the greater tragedy he fell like he did. But RWBY was right to be suspicious as hell of his actions when they met him in V7 and want to hold off. Like, would it have been better if they'd told him right away? Maybe. But also, maybe not. And either way, they didn't know how much he'd listen to them at the time.

    Also, though, as I've seen it put: anyone who thought "military leader with authoritarian tendencies? he'll do great in a crisis that can't be solved with guns alone" hasn't been paying attention to the show or, like... history? And anyone that went into V7 thinking Remnant's problems could be solved by guns alone wasn't paying attention. This includes Ironwood, who continuously failed to appreciate how his approach to problems made things worse for others (and how you can't "sacrifice" anything that isn't yours).

    But seriously, if Ironwood had, like... updated Mantle's firmware? Watts'd have had a much harder time rigging things.

    I could rant about people complaining about Ironwood all day, but his character arc was probably one of the best-executed the show's ever managed.
     
    MinorGryph said:
    Spoiler
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    Agreed, Penny has shown a really bad penchant for self sacrificing behavior in V7 and especially V8, but Ruby and Nora and others have consistently worked to ground her, protect her and find another solution that doesn't involve Penny throwing her life away as a means of solving a problem.

    Sasha said:
    Spoiler: The Fight
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    I feel its worth remembering Penny lost to the Ace-ops and beat Cinder because Cinder was relying on Emerald's Semblance to get a surprise attack in and got sucker punched in response.
     
    Matrix Dragon said:
    To be fair, watching an entire city be destroyed in front of you is not conductive to logical thinking.
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    Zimmerwald1915 said:
    Really? Because I can totally imagine that Marrow and Winter didn't pass along the girls' whole plan to Qrow and Robyn, what with time pressure and everything else that needed to be conveyed. And so Marrow can have a scene in V9 where he consoles a distraught Qrow with the knowledge that the girls are supposed to be in Vacuo and gives him a goal of getting there. So he can have his hope crushed all over again when he does.
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    I'd find those acceptable if Robyn hadn't told the AceOps 'We didn't want to drop Atlas either' last episode. They knew what was up, and 'the entire plan' is kind of a big thing to forget, even when seeing a city get wiped out, since the whole plan was no one dies when the city is wiped out.
     
    Mahrac said:
    I'd find those acceptable if Robyn hadn't told the AceOps 'We didn't want to drop Atlas either' last episode. They knew what was up, and 'the entire plan' is kind of a big thing to forget, even when seeing a city get wiped out, since the whole plan was no one dies when the city is wiped out.
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    [/QUOTE]
    As it is none of the people in the ship know if the evacuation was even done yet, so for all they know their friends and family were still ferrying people through portals, so its not unreasonable for Qrow to worry I feel.
     
    VolantRedX said:
    Well first Penny's been dead and brought back to life before and people seemed to like that. Secondly, do we have to do this dance at the end of every single season? Where the CRWBY does something major and people spend weeks or months talking about how it was the stupidest worst writing choice ever, and then when we finally see where they were going it all makes sense and none of the complaints make sense in retrospect?
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    I'll thank you not to put words in my mouth. I offered what I believe was a fair and honest criticism of the episode. At no point did I say it was "the stupidest worst writing choice ever," I merely expressed that I did not understand the writing choice.

    I don't post here often, but that's not because I don't like RWBY, it's because I rarely have something I feel is worth saying. For the most part, I've thoroughly enjoyed the show. Since the beginning of Volume 6 I think the writing has only gotten better and better. I don't really appreciate you addressing one small part of my post in a single sentence and using the rest of your post to dismiss my opinions and arguments because you seem to think I'm part of that minority in the fandom that likes to complain at every turn.

    With that out of the way:
    I'm not against Penny being brought back to life again, but I do think that if it does happen it needs to be treated with special care. Repeated resurrections can cheapen the impact of a character dying, which is not something I think Penny deserves.

    Do I think CRWBY can pull that off? Well, I've just had my confidence in them shaken for the first time in 3+ volumes, but... yeah, I do think they could do it. They've earned more than enough of my trust for me to wait and see what direction they take things, even if I don't like or understand one of the most recent developments.
    Zam said:
    I feel its worth remembering Penny lost to the Ace-ops and beat Cinder because Cinder was relying on Emerald's Semblance to get a surprise attack in and got sucker punched in response.
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    Fair point.
    I guess I was just surprised because they seemed so evenly matched for most of that fight, but then Cinder just dominated the fight in the finale even though she was facing multiple opponents.

    Maybe it wasn't fair of me to say that Penny had a poor showing in her final fight. Maybe Cinder just showed an unusual amount of competence.
     
    Zam said:
    As it is none of the people in the ship know if the evacuation was even done yet, so for all they know their friends and family were still ferrying people through portals, so its not unreasonable for Qrow to worry I feel.
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    RWBY wasn't supposed to be ferrying people though. Their job was to get the staff, start the evacuation and fall, then head to Vacuo with Penny to help hold off the Grimm until reinforcements from Vacuo could arrive. But even then, if they were in the dimension escorting people, they would be out of call range. Whatever their situation him trying to call them was going to not work and he knew that.
     
    Mahrac said:
    RWBY wasn't supposed to be ferrying people though. Their job was to get the staff, start the evacuation and fall, then head to Vacuo with Penny to help hold off the Grimm until reinforcements from Vacuo could arrive. But even then, if they were in the dimension escorting people, they would be out of call range. Whatever their situation him trying to call them was going to not work and he knew that.
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    How do we know the dimension was out of call range? Like was that established? Plus while there's truth to that having been the plan a city collapsing on itself isn't exactly conductive to "The plan is going great, they're fine" mentalities I feel.
     
    Zam said:
    How do we know the dimension was out of call range? Like was that established? Plus while there's truth to that having been the plan a city collapsing on itself isn't exactly conductive to "The plan is going great, they're fine" mentalities I feel.
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    Well, there was no signal for Emerald last episode in general, but I think alternate dimensions have an excuse for bad scroll coverage.
     
    Zam said:
    How do we know the dimension was out of call range? Like was that established? Plus while there's truth to that having been the plan a city collapsing on itself isn't exactly conductive to "The plan is going great, they're fine" mentalities I feel.
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    Fair, no one knows how alternate dimensions work for calls. We do know they acted under the assumption that it wasn't possible to make calls into/out of if given that no one planned on calling to Vacuo from it and Jaune told Nora to run out rather than call for backup. And they didn't tell Ambrosius to make it scroll accessible, given how thorough they otherwise were, Weiss throwing in a careless turn of phrase aside, that implies they couldn't think of a way to do so.

    So that still leaves us at they had no reasons to expect calls worked there and knowing that if RWBY were where they were supposed to be, that is Vacuo, rather than where we knew they were they would definitely be out of range for Qrow.
     
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    Zam said:
    Again I think you're expecting a lot of clear headedness from characters who have plenty of reason to be at the end of their emotional tether.
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    I have no problem with him being worried. I does however annoy me that he start panicking when something that he know shouldn't work doesn't work.
     
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    Sasha said:
    I'll thank you not to put words in my mouth. I offered what I believe was a fair and honest criticism of the episode. At no point did I say it was "the stupidest worst writing choice ever," I merely expressed that I did not understand the writing choice.

    I don't post here often, but that's not because I don't like RWBY, it's because I rarely have something I feel is worth saying. For the most part, I've thoroughly enjoyed the show. Since the beginning of Volume 6 I think the writing has only gotten better and better. I don't really appreciate you addressing one small part of my post in a single sentence and using the rest of your post to dismiss my opinions and arguments because you seem to think I'm part of that minority in the fandom that likes to complain at every turn.
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    I'm sorry for jumping down your throat, but given how nearly every twist the show has done (and many not twists people have decided to make into an issue) becomes a constant refrain of how bad the writing is before the show actually reveals the end of the twist anything that seems like that sort of argument gets grating.
     
    So does anyone thinks that there might be a Robinson Crusoe character on the island or a swiss family Robinson characters as well?

    I can also imagine that this island could be a neverland analog and there might be a petter pan and captain hook character. This could also be a treasure island analog as well and there could also be a long john silver character as well.
     
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    234star said:
    So does anyone thinks that there might be a Robinson Crusoe character on the island or a swiss family Robinson characters as well?

    I can also imagine that this island could be a neverland analog and there might be a petter pan and captain hook character. This could also be a treasure island analog as well and there could also be a long john silver character as well.
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    We have a Peter Pan at home.
     
    Eventually
    Team RWBY return.....and Salem hears that Ruby is back.

    Salem - "Oooooh Cinder.....what was that about Neopolitan killing Ruby Rose??"

    Cinder - "............shit."
     
    Pugman said:
    Eventually
    Team RWBY return.....and Salem hears that Ruby is back.

    Salem - "Oooooh Cinder.....what was that about Neopolitan killing Ruby Rose??"

    Cinder - "............shit."
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    Honestly, that phrasing would give Cinder just about the easiest way possible out of that conversation. "Neo threw Ruby off the path and into the void. I couldn't have known there was anything there."

    Now of course, that only works until Salem somehow gets Ruby or Neo's version of events.
     
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    I'm less about blaming Jaune in the sense of "He's a killer, rah rah!" and more reflecting on how when presented with Penny's penchant for self sacrifice everyone else always rejected it and tried to find another route and succeeded, but Jaune went with it and the kind of conflict that could cause between him and the others, especially Ruby.
     
    Zam said:
    I'm less about blaming Jaune in the sense of "He's a killer, rah rah!" and more reflecting on how when presented with Penny's penchant for self sacrifice everyone else always rejected it and tried to find another route and succeeded, but Jaune went with it and the kind of conflict that could cause between him and the others, especially Ruby.
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    It's not like Jaune had a means of denying Penny.
    He tried to say no. He did not want to do this. But Penny kept asking for this, put out the truth that they could not afford to let Cinder get the Maiden powers, and Jaune could even see Weiss trying to fight Cinder.
    Trying to stretch out conflict between RWBY and Jaune during the detour would, in my opinion, kind of start retreading the ground of broken trust we already covered with Ozpin.
    Not to mention that wail from Jaune after stabbing Penny, on top of being separated from his own team, and honestly trying to chew him out on making a divide between Jaune and Ruby would feel like a little much.
    Jaune having a Vomit Boy moment or getting beaned with a rock = funny
    Verbally making him suffer for an action he didn't want to do = forced angst
     
    Pugman said:
    It's not like Jaune had a means of denying Penny.
    He tried to say no. He did not want to do this. But Penny kept asking for this, put out the truth that they could not afford to let Cinder get the Maiden powers, and Jaune could even see Weiss trying to fight Cinder.
    Trying to stretch out conflict between RWBY and Jaune during the detour would, in my opinion, kind of start retreading the ground of broken trust we already covered with Ozpin.
    Not to mention that wail from Jaune after stabbing Penny, on top of being separated from his own team, and honestly trying to chew him out on making a divide between Jaune and Ruby would feel like a little much.
    Jaune having a Vomit Boy moment or getting beaned with a rock = funny
    Verbally making him suffer for an action he didn't want to do = forced angst
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    I seriously feel you just kind of ignored everything I said to reach an entirely off conclusion about how I want to victimize Jaune for the lols.
     
    I think the only reason it was Jaune killed penny and not Nora was that Nora would have to use her hammer to kill her.
     
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