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RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • I'll admit I did an impressed "Oh you biiiiitch" at Cinder's final "Checkmate" line. Was a great way to slam the final nail in Ironwood's coffin.
     
    VolantRedX said:
    My prediction is that Pietro will build another Penny body and is about to sacrifice himself to raise her back up but instead Winter steps into the machine and it separates the Winter Maiden power from her to bring Penny back. It'd be a great thematic backhand at Ironwood and Cinder. That Winter would willingly give up her power for someone she cares about.
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    Alternatively
    Penny's body was still there after she died. And with the platforms vanishing it would have fallen into the void too. Maybe the God of Animals or whatever entity RWBY and Silent Knight find in that dimension could preserve and heal her body so that her soul can be returned to it later. Kind of a Snow White or Sleeping Beauty situation.



    Anyway here is the perfect spoiler free recap of the finale:
     
    Gladsome said:
    Well, Pietro knows the science. I wouldn't be surprised if he could build a new one.
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    I could entirely believe he'd single handedly build up Vacuo to Atlas's level of tech to get his daughter back.

    Also, I can't get over how much of a manbaby Ironwood is this episode... Well, before Cinder breaks him while Salem doesn't even notice him.
     
    VolantRedX said:
    The difference between Ironwood and Penny is that Penny is choosing to make the sacrifice. Nora calls this out last volume. Ironwood talks a big game about sacrifice, but he's the one demanding others sacrifice for his goals, while he's never sacrificing anything but a few night's sleep. Here Penny is choosing to sacrifice herself for the greater good.
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    Jaune too wanted to be sacrificed for the greater good a few volumes ago. After a string of failures and mistakes, he was convinced he was nothing but a liability and the only good he'd do was by dying for them.

    Luckily his friends refused to let him go through with it, instead of taking the minute tactical advantage not having to cover his ass might have given them.

    I don't think Penny should have been sacrified because she "chose" to give them the advantage of a maiden with her unnecessary death. And you have to remember, it was still a risk to do that- if Ironwood had killed Winter the power would have gone to someone random regardless of Penny's attempt to chose.
     
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    And Penny likely didn't follow through on her sending the powers to Ruby because she doesn't even know if Ruby is alive.
     
    I'm not going to read anything in thread. Just gonna plop my thoughts in a spoiler box and then go away for a while.
     
    Well, that was...something.

    Not having read any of the reaction on this thread, the biggest feeling I'm left with is uncertainty at this point.

    Will Penny remain dead? Is Ironwood dead? Is Watts dead?

    These largely stem from narrative expectations I've built up over my life. Chances are they are all dead, which is fine, but it seemed to lack that final assurance that this is indeed the case you'd see in a lot of media, except Penny. Vine's death seems to show the "new" Ace Ops as including Robyn and having Qrow taking over Clover's old gig - are they going to see the final fate of Ironwood and Watts?

    Jaune's fall into the abyss seems to lend credibility to the idea that where they have fallen is some sort of afterlife, which would mean Pyrrha making an appearance. I don't particularly agree with that direction as I felt the statue scene was the best way to end that story arch, but we will see.

    Things to linger on I suppose as we wait for next year.
     
    Cinder really determined to live up to that name huh?

    link

    Edit: I'm reminded of that Hellsing Abridged meme: "It could be more on fire."





    Very nice to see her use her point and boom explosions from volume 1 again. Haven't seen those in a while.
     
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    Marco said:
    Well, that was...something.

    Not having read any of the reaction on this thread, the biggest feeling I'm left with is uncertainty at this point.

    Will Penny remain dead? Is Ironwood dead? Is Watts dead?

    These largely stem from narrative expectations I've built up over my life. Chances are they are all dead, which is fine, but it seemed to lack that final assurance that this is indeed the case you'd see in a lot of media, except Penny. Vine's death seems to show the "new" Ace Ops as including Robyn and having Qrow taking over Clover's old gig - are they going to see the final fate of Ironwood and Watts?

    Jaune's fall into the abyss seems to lend credibility to the idea that where they have fallen is some sort of afterlife, which would mean Pyrrha making an appearance. I don't particularly agree with that direction as I felt the statue scene was the best way to end that story arch, but we will see.

    Things to linger on I suppose as we wait for next year.
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    Of course Ironwood and Watts are dead. They literally went down with Atlas itself, which was then covered by a rush of water. Even if they didn't die in the crash itself, the water sealed their doom.



    some more thoughts
    Given that Pyrrha's metal was reforged with Jaune's sword and shield, in a way she has killed Penny twice.

    Over in Vacuo, I can just imagine the fanfics now. Winter informs the others what happened, and Whitley (be it habit, spite, or both) makes a backhanded comment how Winter failed Weiss again, and then proceeds to mentally kick himself while others shoot him dirty looks.

    For Nora taking reigns and finding "herself" as a leader type, ya I can see that. She may be willing to follow others, but she has pretty much always been the one to rally others to stand up. She started the food fight, she tried to motivate Pyrrha, and the entire time in Atlas it was her shouting right back at Ironwood for not doing right by his people.
     
    poor Qrow
    He is probably only now realizing he can't reach the kids. He has no idea what happened to anyone.
    Then when he and the others eventually reach Vacuo it's going to be Winter that explains to him what happened, and oooooh boi is he going to be upset.

    also I just realized
    the 2 drunks from the first episode of V7 survived it all and are now with the other survivors in Vacuo. XD



    THE SONG
     
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    Poor
    Nora though.:(







    She went through that portal because she expected that she would be able to bring back as much help as her friends needed. She went through because she wanted to support them and instead she ended up trapped and unable to help in any way at all.


    :(
     
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    Mook said:
    Poor
    Nora though.:(





    She went through that portal because she expected that she would be able to bring back as much help as her friends needed. She went through because she wanted to support them and instead she ended up trapped and unable to help in any way at all.


    :(
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    "It'll be just like Beacon again!"
    City/Academy overrun and destroyed by the enemy.

    Teammates/Friends out there and Nora can't reach them, and again it was Jaune telling them to focus on protecting the people while he went to go support others.

    Meanwhile unknown to her (for the most part at that time);
    Cinder got what she wanted and escaped

    RWBY and Jaune (and Neo) are out of action

    And Penny is dead...again.


    TOO SOON


    Protect her
     
    While penny was always going to die, I just hate the fact that we lost all of that potential with her being human and she never got to see what it was like. I also hated the fact that we never got to see the show play around with her being made out of aura, that was a cool concept, and it's sad that we might not see them play with that idea again.

    I don't know, I'm just upset that we got all of these cool and interesting ideas to put right in front of us, only for the show to say that those ideas are not going to be explored more, it's just upsetting.

    It also makes penny getting a human body feel like it was for nothing.

    I just hope that penny ends up being the cricket to winter because that what it feels like.

    Also, it's her body that made out of pure aura, not her soul or mind, so if her body fell into the void and onto the beach, then that could lead to some interesting ideas besides burying her since her body is still made out of aura.
     
    I don't think
    Penny was an aura being. I think the show was more implying she was a fleshy meat person like everyone else.
     
    Salem can fly, regenerate, has magic, and seemingly knew where the vault was. She didn't need the invasion or giant whale, this was all about crushing spirit. No matter what Ironwood or RWBY planned this was going to be a victory for Salem.
     
    I'm on the fence as to whether Cinder actually fooled Salem here. Because let's face it, Salem is very good at this sort of thing and might have picked up that Cinder wasn't being 100% truthful.

    But at the same time, Salem isn't going to care that much that Cinder didn't tell her everything. She has the staff and lamp, Atlas has been destroyed and she can simply wait until the lamp recharges.
     
    I'mma be blunt about this: I did not like the finale. Apart from the pacing issues that have plagued most of Volume 8 continuing to be a problem in the final episode, I think my dislike of the finale boils down to two main points.

    The Penny vs Cinder fight. This is the lesser of the two disappointments, but still played a big part in me not enjoying the episode.

    I'll admit that I might be letting my salt over Penny's death (see the next spoiler for my thoughts on that can of worms) color my analysis here, but I found Penny's showing to be thoroughly underwhelming. This volume had already pretty much cemented Penny as the most powerful member of the good guys' team. First, she held off the AceOps on her own in V8C3, but more importantly in V8C5, she soundly defeated Cinder while protecting her father and the CCT/Amity. Yet in the finale, despite having allies to help her fight Cinder, she's kicked around, barely uses her elemental powers, and is dealt a fatal blow while Cinder's aura doesn't even break. Come to think of it, I don't actually recall seeing Penny's aura break either, but she still gets stabbed with Cinder's Grimm arm. Maybe I just missed that part though.

    I'm honestly baffled by Penny's death. Like, I genuinely don't understand why the writers decided it was a good idea and that the way it happened was the best way to execute it (no pun intended).

    First of all, it was very unsatisfying after all the buildup Penny's arc had throughout the volume. Her struggle against Watts' virus was a huge plot thread that spanned over half the volume. She managed to fight back against it with the help of her friends in V8C11, and was then triumphantly freed from it in the next episode, finally becoming a 'real girl' thanks to the Staff of Creation. It seemed like her story was just beginning... and then it was abruptly cut short. Her death was shocking, all the more for coming on the heels of her triumphant transformation. But shock value seems like a poor trade for the death of such an interesting and loveable character.

    Next, there's the part where Jaune, a character that has barely interacted with Penny this volume (or the last... or in any other volume...), is the one to carry out the 'mercy kill'. Really, the only connection I can see is the one so many other people have pointed out, Jaune's trauma with losing Pyrrha, but I think that connection is tenuous at best. It made me feel like Penny's final moments were more about Jaune than Penny herself.

    Finally, there's the part where this whole "Kill me to transfer the Maiden powers to someone trustworthy" dilemma was already explored in V8C11. Not only was the conflict prompting the dilemma, a battle for control of her mind and body, more tense than what we got in the finale, but it was also being posed to Ruby, Penny's best friend, making the awful choice much more emotional and meaningful. I honestly could have overlooked the abrupt end to Penny's story if it was Ruby who did the deed, or heck, even Weiss. The decision to have it be Jaune is just... so bizarre to me.

    About the only reason to have done things this way that I can think of is to set up some kind of conflict between Ruby and Jaune in Volume 9, but again, that seems like a waste, not to mention to dubious choice of waiting until the next freaking volume to explore. I've seen people speculating that they might be able to bring Penny back, but I'm very skeptical of CRWBY's ability to pull that off without making it seem contrived. Another drawback to having this happen at the end of a volume, I suppose.

    All that said, there were some things that were neat. I won't go in depth because the above rant kinda drained me mentally and emotionally, but the highlights for me were:
    Watching the smug get wiped off Neo's face when she fell.
    Weiss and Jaune being badasses.
    Winter and her Maiden powers being beautiful.
    The imagery of Cresent Rose alone, buried in the sand.
     
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