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RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • Pugman said:
    And are we really just going to blame every bad thing Ironwood does on his semblance?
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    Unfortunately, because there's no audible or visual tell of when his Semblance kicks in, it's hard to say when it's Ironwood doing the stuff and when it's his Semblance.

    Plus, this makes the trope of "AI is so dedicated to the mission, it will kill people to get the job done" a lot more nuanced than just making it "Penny or some robot turns against their masters".
     
    A Semblance manifests from a person's personality, or their personality is influenced by their Semblance. If Ironwood's personality tells him to sprint with a broken leg to try to win a race, then his Semblance is to shoot everyone in front of him so he wins.
     
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    Pugman said:
    We need a brave soul
    To put a ticket on that whale. It's on private property AND multiparked.
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    Given that Ironwood was able to seize an SDC mine because it was important enough to a state project, and considering the dearth of good farmland on Solitas, I'm willing to bet that the whale is currently vomiting up grimm onto state property.
     
    Zimmerwald1915 said:
    Given that Ironwood was able to seize an SDC mine because it was important enough to a state project, and considering the dearth of good farmland on Solitas, I'm willing to bet that the whale is currently vomiting up grim onto state property.
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    Speaking of which, one of the Grimm spawned from that was an Apathy. It's back, and I wouldn't count on it being the only one.
     
    AlertFiend said:
    I wonder if many of the extremist members of the White Fang and Faunus in general participated or had parents/grandparents who were involved in the Faunus Right Revolution / Faunus War. Depending on what generation it was, then that level of extremism would make sense, exceptionally if human armies were acting like, well, humans to Faunus settlements.
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    I currently Headcanon Ghira, Sienna & Kali as having been basically teen soldiers during that time while STRQ were kids.

    So basically like 30/40 years ago.

    Anyway as to what RWBY & STRQ would do:
    Weiss & Blake were both actively abused, everyone on RWBY have shown an inclination either off the cuff or when suitably pressed to break the law to do what is right, there's a vast contrast between bullying in the academy (Which is still bad) and watching someone getting electrocuted and used as a slave. Long story short I am 100% confident they'd have intervened, law be damned.

    STRQ is harder to say, broadly they were meant to be or have been good people but they are also a failed RWBY. I think some of them might have taken more action and others might not have and overall probably wouldn't have handled the situation as well as say RWBY, but probably better than Rhodes.


    Overwhelmed

    Its a system

    Very Atlas

    A real world problem
     
    Matrix Dragon said:
    This, so much this. It's basically just him doubling down and becoming extra focused.
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    I'd say "closed-minded" or "tunnel-visioned," but yes. His mind is preternaturally hard (not impossible) to change, and he can be very easily ruled by his impulses. The only thing changed in that sentence that changes because of his personal magic power is that the word "preternaturally" is inserted. Otherwise, it's just a character description.

    But what a character description.
     
    SerGregness said:
    I think it's a relevant detail that there is legal slavery for faunus, which Cinder is not. She's a young white girl in the Jim Crow South. Again, in-group/out-group shit. It's also fairly clear to me (you may disagree, but whatever I'm not actually that interested in this disagreement. Just laying out how I see it.) that Rhodes would have been advocating for her in this hypothetical given his behavior during the fight.
    Mistal is coded Asian, so Cinder is presumably also asian
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    bioticgrunt said:
    So we've finally got Cinder's backstory and I can't find the effort to care. I don't hate what it is but I expected something other than cinderella's backstory but without the happy ending. If this had details set up in by previous seasons, something original, and/or cinder was more interesting. Right now, it's just another log on the atlas sucks fire
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    The whole "Cycle of abuse" aspect of things has had significant foreshadowing
     
    MonochromeXClown said:
    Huh looks like Atlas was the grain basket of for Mantle after all.
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    Considering that said farm fields likely need the extra high-end climate control tech to keep growing, I imagine that these are 'top grade' that is 90% for the City of Atlas. Oh sure Mantle can probably get access to it if they pay through the nose. The rest of the time they'll be subsisting on imported food and/or more 'basic' stuff they can grow with the limited tech/resources they have.
    Teen Spirit said:
    So uh is slavery legal in Atlas cause what the fuck.
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    It's probably not :turian:legal:turian: in Atlas but as long as you didn't make it obvious and had the cash/social standing to make people look the other way; you can probably get away with a good deal.

    Meanwhile:
    Ironwood: "The might of Atlasian technology and our army will hold back the Grimm!"
    -Salem's goo takes less then 5 seconds to break the shield wall on the underside of the island and Sentinels tear off the generators-
    Ironwood: (Surprised Pikachu face) "How? How could she have come up with such a insane strategy of not straightforwardly smashing against the shields at their strongest points but instead attacking the more weakly defended rock underside and then cause the precariously balanced generators to fall and break?":jackiechan:

    -Airship fires on the Sentinels. Manages to kill 1 out of who knows how many-
    1: Further evidence of jackass Atlas mentality. Mantle is right there and the fleet only bothers to take the thumb out of their collective butts when the Grimm start attacking Atlas.:anger:
    2: Explains why we haven't seen the Airships fighting beforehand. They can't really do all that much.

    Also based on how the shield failed and the overhead shot, it seems that the system was built on the assuption that the shield would never be breached (two pylons fail, the entire shield collapses. Also there don't appear to be any walls or fortifications on Atlas to serve as fall back points. They were 100% relying on the shield and fleet.

    Both of which didn't even rate as a speed bump as Salem enacts Operation Sea Lion Moby-Dick and proceeds to unload all the Grimm into Atlas.
     
    That's pretty much the defining attitude of Atlas.

    They have FAR too much confidence in their technology, be it the drones that can be taken down by an angry citizen with a broom and require massive numerical advantages to take on the grimm, or a forcefield that gives way the first time Salem really tried to breach it. It's a terrifying combination of cultural arrogance, and the fact that Atlas hasn't really been to war in 80 years. There's not really anyone, including Ironwood, with experience of the kinds of battles they're facing now.
     
    My thoughts on Cinder's origin:

    I had theorized for ages that Cinder was a fallen Huntress, someone who became disillusioned with the system. It's neat to see that I was so near yet so far off the mark. I was also a big believer in the theories of her being Jaques's bastard or a member of one of the royal families that lost power after the Great War. Way off the mark on that one it seems, though it's possible for one of these things to be revealed to be the case down the road.

    I have to admit I'm really pleased with how much this humanizes her character.

    There's also a 'reality ensues' aspect to her story that I really enjoy. Rhodes is in many ways the deconstruction of the mentor character I had hoped Ozpin would be and never quite hit the mark. Usually, in these scenarios like Harry Potter or Naruto you have the mentor who's aware that their student/future student is in a situation where they're abused and/or neglected but doesn't actively do anything to remove them from that situation. Also, the narrative will usually come up with reasons why it had to be that way. And this upbringing, even if it left emotional scars on the young hero, will ultimately be spun as some of perseverance porn crap that made them stronger/better people.

    Here we get the far more realistic outcome of such a thing; the student breaks and finally lashes out at their abusive caretakers. And the mentor who wasn't will to take action to save thier student from abuse was willing to take action against the student for lashing out in response to years of said abuse.
     
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    Something I noticed that's neat

    Ruby is often matched up with Maka Albarn from Soul Eater when her being in Death Battle is brought up.

    The writer of Soul Eater's next work is a anime called Fire Force, and it's main character has a super speed power that works similarly to how Ruby's Semblence does

    SerGregness said:
    Come on, I obviously meant that in terms of cultural context. Obviously the comparison isn't perfect not least because people in the Jim Crow era didn't also have superpowers and nightmares given form preying on the populace.
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    Fair.

    Though I have seen some compare Cinder's situation to the historical exotification of asian things that occurred in europe.
     
    Matrix Dragon said:
    That's pretty much the defining attitude of Atlas.

    They have FAR too much confidence in their technology, be it the drones that can be taken down by an angry citizen with a broom and require massive numerical advantages to take on the grimm, or a forcefield that gives way the first time Salem really tried to breach it. It's a terrifying combination of cultural arrogance, and the fact that Atlas hasn't really been to war in 80 years. There's not really anyone, including Ironwood, with experience of the kinds of battles they're facing now.
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    Well, here's the thing: For his entire career Ironwood has commanded a massive army where his major opposition has been packs of mindless beasts (Grimm when Salem isn't giving them orders) and a relatively small terrorist organization (White Fang). I'm pretty sure he's never been in a situation where his side didn't have a huge numerical advantage over the opposition before the Fall of Beacon, even if maybe they were momentarily outnumbered, reinforcements would be on the way.

    Edit: Yes, technically there are more Grimm than Atlesian Soldiers but they don't all work together under normal circumstances, so the military can field more people than there are Grimm attacking any area under their control... until now.
     
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    one thing that amuses me
    2 episodes in a row, 2 Cinder fights in a row, we have seen basically grapple people like a monkey. Penny at Amity and Rhodes in her room.
    Cinder, secretly a monkey faunus? WHO KNOWS?! :rofl:
    Now go fight Sun.
     
    The Clock Strikes Midnight in Volume 7. But in Volume 3, Midnight (Cinder) struck the Clock (Ozpin)
     
    SolipsistSerpent said:
    Well, here's the thing: For his entire career Ironwood has commanded a massive army where his major opposition has been packs of mindless beasts (Grimm when Salem isn't giving them orders) and a relatively small terrorist organization (White Fang). I'm pretty sure he's never been in a situation where his side didn't have a huge numerical advantage over the opposition before the Fall of Beacon, even if maybe they were momentarily outnumbered, reinforcements would be on the way.
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    Honestly the White Fang's shift from diplomats to ever expanding para military organization directly raiding military protected locations within a couple of years is something else that gives me the vibe Sienna Khan & other founding commanders probably had more military experience than Ironwood. Though yes they also do present a very distinct problem to Salem, but I just thought that was interesting in of itself as well.

    Anyway on a comparison I've seen brought up:
    Cinder & Adam have their similarities, but they also have their differences. Some of these have been discussed before but I now want to zero in on the current thing some are talking about and again highlight the distinctions.

    Both were exploited and abused in traumatic fashion.

    Both however did not necessarily have the same experience following leaving those abusive situations.

    Cinder could have been on the run, prison or picked up by a gang or Salem in short order & basically moved from one abusive environment to another.

    Adam, didn't.

    Adam ended up with the diplomatic White Fang, he had friends or at least comrades, he had mentors*, he has a legitimate support network that would have stood by his side.

    And what did he do? Well, everything in his power to corrupt and twist it to serve his own ends, abusing and hurting his own people and those who cared about him most for power.

    Notes:
    *And no Sienna didn't make Adam that way, as I've gone into before he was already committing crimes on the side, clearly relished in hurting others in a way she didn't and her presence actively discouraged him from executing helpless people for fun. Also he was an adult & responsible for his own dang actions.
     
    FNKI
    Grimm are in the streets of Atlas. Gotta wonder if Flynt and Neon are having flashbacks to Beacon. I hope we see them defending their turf and I hope we see them live.
     
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