RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

kokuenDG · May 1, 2022

so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.

Zam · May 10, 2018

Leila Hann said:
You should be mad at the intellectually dishonest, barely-English-literate idiots who wrote this shit, then. They're the ones who ruined what could have been a great character.

Or I could be mad at the person deliberately misconstruing the entire story/character for the purposes of bashing I have my issues with RWBY but this is both rude and intellectually dishonest.

Leingod said:
When he says "things that make no sense to me" he means your arguments make no sense to him.

This too.

Uncle said:
@Zam and @Leingod

Lets assume for a second I don't think Yang is a psychopath, I don't actually but you two are convinced otherwise. Why I can't I call her out, and the writers, for torturing Junior. And it is torture, ask the United Nations.

Okay, so its a bad trope and its speaks poorly of the people who use it without applying consequences.

As I said, you made a comment about her mantel state and were agreeing with someone who made that claim, you already did.

As I have previously said its a trope, a crappy, shitty, bad trope, take issue with the trope, with the writers, not with the character who has no say in her own actions cos she is a character.

Leila Hann · May 10, 2018

Zam said:
Or I could be mad at the person deliberately misconstruing the entire story/character for the purposes of bashing I have my issues with RWBY but this is both rude and intellectually dishonest.

Nope.

I'm curious though. What do you think my ulterior motive is?

Mook · May 10, 2018

Leila Hann said:
Given how close the fight between Ozpin and Cinder appeared to be (in fact, the only glimpses we got of it at all seemed to show Ozpin kicking Cinder's ass, so her pulling out an offscreen victory is a massive visual storytelling failure at best), and the fact that Pyrrha was able to give Cinder some kind of actual fight during the following battle (even if we assume that Cinder was going easy on her, which I'm not totally convinced of), then it stands to reason that having Pyrrha help Ozpin in the fight against Cinder prooooobably would have tipped the odds in his favor. And, sending Pyrrha away even when that's a blatantly stupid thing to do is unfortunately not at all out of character for Ozpin in light of his previous actions throughout the show. He's just an idiot. Or crazy. Or both. Most charitable interpretation is that spending that many years in such close proximity to the CCT emitter wasn't a good idea.

Good lord you just can't stop digging can you. No it does not stand to reason that having Pyrrha around would have helped at all. Unless you're an actual psychopath having a much weaker ally hanging around in a fight with a peer opponent is not very helpful at all. Here's what actually would have happened if Pyrrha had participated in that fight:

Replace (or don't since Maiden powers grants all elements) the lightning with fire lasers or thousands of glass shards. The result is the same, Ozpin either needs to jump in to protect Pyrrha which could end up in him getting seriously hurt just from that, or it leaves him vulnerable for Cinder's next attack.

Have you never played a single video game with Escort Missions? Or played a game like Skyrim and decided to just ditch companion AI's because they just keep getting in the way? That's what having Pyrrha around would be like for Ozpin. He flat out says it to her face.

even if we assume that Cinder was going easy on her, which I'm not totally convinced of

And really you claim that you don't make up things to complain about but here you give another perfect example. So if Cinder wasn't holding back when fighting Pyrrha please explain why she only threw around some blasts of fire here while never bothering to use her super speed, her glass shards, her ability to generate explosions at the target's feet, her explosive arrows or her giant fire beam attack. FYI implying that she didn't use that stuff because she is stupid or crazy or some other insulting reason still means that she was in fact holding back. For someone who just made such a big deal about the show's visual story-telling you sure don't seem to pay attention to it when it contradicts you.

Also the visual storytelling from the fight with Ozpin showed him having the advantage in a physical confrontation due to his skill but the scene ends with a direct clash of power where skill doesn't matter. Ozpin losing is completely in-line with the established fact that the Maidens have unimaginable power and with him clearly not being confident in his ability to beat a Maiden in a fight.

Uncle said:
Torture doesn't speak well of someone mental faculties.

Agreed. Good thing the heroes have never tortured anyone. Heck, I don't think the villains have tortured anyone yet. Unless you count Roman beating information out of Ruby in Volume 2 I guess.

Leila Hann said:
My reasoning is such:

1. In our introduction to Yang, we see her sexually assault and then beat up a bunch of criminals for no reason, even after they proved willing to de-escalate. She may have even killed a few of the mooks, its hard to say (and more to the point, there's no way if SHE could have known if she was killing any, given the way aura supposedly works...most of the time at least, aura is not very consistent).

2. We then see her abandon Ruby to disappear into a crowd of "friends" who we never see her interact with again, and indeed we never even see any further implications that Yang HAS any friends outside of the named cast. This is followed immediately by Yang SEPARATING Ruby from the one friend she's made since then (Jaune) at the assembly, and then - an episode or two later - telling Ruby that she should make her own team with new friends of her own before doing a 180 and going looking for Ruby herself as soon as they were actually in the forest. It definitely seems like there's a pattern of Yang trying to socially isolate Ruby while trying to convince her that she, herself, is much more socially apt than she is.

3. We then see her have a completely out of nowhere angry outburst at no one in the middle of the forest.

4. In the following season, we see her encouraging Jaune to keep hitting on Weiss even though she knows Weiss is just irritated by him, and then uses the opportunity to call Weiss an "ice queen" when Jaune predictably escalates.

5. Shortly later, she encourages her teammates to leave a dog - her OWN FAMILY PET - alone without food for a week.

Now, Yang also has other moments where she's not written like a psychopath. She has two or three other personalities that she cycles through, one of them even being likable. But at least in seasons one and two, "manipulative psychopath with no impulse control who loves cruelly toying with people" was the most frequently recurrent of them, and definitely the most memorable.

1. If that was sexual assault then I guess Dew is a sex offender for batting a coconut into Scarlet's nuts during the Vytal Festival. :eyeroll:

And again with the making shit up nonsense. Those mooks where clearly not dead. Not a single person in that club before or afterwards acts like there was any real threat to those people's lives. Your entire thesis is based on a false premise.
2. We also never see the friends Ruby had back at Signal, because it would be a waste of fucking time since they're useless background characters that do nothing to advance a story that already struggles with having giving enough screen-time to every character as it is.
Next is..... Wow. I thought I was used to your insanity but this really takes the cake. Could you please stop fucking lying? :rage:

Yang: (waving) Ruby! Over here! I saved you a spot!

That is literally all Yang does. She did not do anything to indicate that Ruby couldn't bring her new friend along, hell she didn't even know that Jaune was Ruby's friend at that point. Ruby is the one that decides that she has to split up with Jaune to hang out with her sister, which is exactly the kind of thing Yang was trying to discourage by suggesting that she make her own friends. Hell later that night she actively encourages Ruby to think of Jaune as a friend and then tries to introduce her to Blake when Ruby expresses an interest in her.

Yang: What about Jaune? He's... nice! There you go! Plus one friend! That's a hundred percent increase!

Yang: Look, it's only been one day. Trust me; you've got friends all around you! You just haven't met them yet!

Ruby: That girl...
Yang: You know her?
Ruby: Not really. She saw what happened this morning, but left before I could say anything.
Yang: Well, now's your chance! (grabs Ruby's arm and lifts her up)
Ruby: Wait! What are you doing?!
Blake looks over her book to see Ruby unsuccessfully struggling against Yang's grip as she leads her sister over to Blake's spot before letting go.
Yang: (singing) Hel-looooo! I believe you two may know each other?

Truly these are the words of a psychopath attempting to isolate her sister from other people.

Like, I could accept the premise that Yang tries to present herself as being more socially adept than she actually is... But how the hell does that make her a psychopath? So many fucking people do that, by your logic all of them would be psychopaths. You're basically Syndrome at this point:

Leingod has already covered most of the my other responses but let me just say:

5. You're talking about THIS dog right? This fucking DOG? We're talking about the same dog?

Leingod · May 10, 2018

Uncle said:
Lets assume for a second I don't think Yang is a psychopath, I don't actually but you two are convinced otherwise.

You're not the one I was directing the accusations of a belief in Yang's psychopathy in.

Uncle said:
@Zam and @Leingod

Lets assume for a second I don't think Yang is a psychopath, I don't actually but you two are convinced otherwise. Why I can't I call her out, and the writers, for torturing Junior. And it is torture, ask the United Nations.

Okay, so its a bad trope and its speaks poorly of the people who use it without applying consequences.

Oh, there's nothing preventing you from complaining about it. It's the internet, do that all you want. It just means that there's no point continuing to debate it, since it's clear that we have very different opinions on this. I, for instance, usually have no problems with Batman dangling crooks off of rooftops and threatening to drop them if they don't tell him what he wants to know, and neither do many other people.

My only problem with Jack Bauer Interrogations in fiction is generally with stupid people assuming that it works in real life just because they see it work on TV. Which is a problem with stupid people rather than the trope itself.

mistakenot · May 10, 2018

Leila Hann said:
5. Shortly later, she encourages her teammates to leave a dog - her OWN FAMILY PET - alone without food for a week.

All else aside, this claim displays egregious bad faith.

Mook · May 10, 2018

Leila Hann said:
Nope.

I'm curious though. What do you think my ulterior motive is?

Mostly I think you suffer from a severe case of drinking your own kool-aid after spending too much time in a echo chamber that encourages you to find as many faults with the story as possible, the worse the better.

Leila Hann · May 10, 2018

Mook said:
Mostly I think you suffer from a severe case of drinking your own kool-aid after spending too much time in a echo chamber that encourages you to find as many faults with the story as possible, the worse the better.

That's some faulty reasoning, given that most of my initial readers (or at least, the ones who gave me feedback) were RWBY fans. And, the points of mine that you seem to be taking the most issue with include ones I made in the first few episodes.

Also, please drop the lazy "echo chamber" argument. I could just as easily say the same thing of any longtime poster in THIS thread, given the reaction I've seen it have to any criticism of the show. I swear to god, crying "echo chamber" is like, THE go-to argument for intellectually dishonest whiners these days.

Mook · May 10, 2018

Leila Hann said:
That's some faulty reasoning, given that most of my initial readers (or at least, the ones who gave me feedback) were RWBY fans.

I guess you can technically call people who have watched a show but hate everything about it fans. Technically.

mistakenot said:
All else aside, this claim displays egregious bad faith.

Indeed.

Edit:
(Oh yeah, in case some people didn't get it, the joke is that Zwei is capable of using box cutters to open the cans of dog food)

Zam · May 10, 2018

Leila Hann said:
Nope.

I'm curious though. What do you think my ulterior motive is?

Nope? You don't get to tell me what I can be mad at. Wait am I just being trolled right now?

Quote the post where I said that, though frankly I don't know, character bashing, RWBY bashing, trolling?

Apologies if I come across as insulting at this point but I genuinely cannot grasp someone having watched media but missed all of the cues.

There's issues with RWBY, sure, but these things seem manufactured at best.

Jcogginsa · May 10, 2018

Leila Hann said:
That's some faulty reasoning, given that most of my initial readers (or at least, the ones who gave me feedback) were RWBY fans. And, the points of min that you seem to be taking the most issue with include ones I made in the first few episodes.

Also, please drop the lazy "echo chamber" argument. I could just as easily say the same thing of any longtime poster in THIS thread, given the reaction I've seen it have to any criticism of the show. I swear to god, crying "echo chamber" is like, THE go too argument for intellectually dishonest whiners these days.

I got banned from that thread because I didn't go along with the Echo Chamber. It was 100 percent an echo chamber

Leila Hann · May 10, 2018

Mook said:
I guess you can technically call people who have watched a show but hate everything about it fans. Technically.

You are such a pathetic liar.

The majority of my initial commenters were people who actually liked the show. Most of those people left over the course of my watchthrough of season one, but most of the issues we're talking about right now are from those first few episodes.

Uncle · May 10, 2018

Zam said:
As I have previously said its a trope, a crappy, shitty, bad trope, take issue with the trope, with the writers, not with the character who has no say in her own actions cos she is a character.

So we can't hold characters responsible for their actions? That's an interesting defense.

When people criticize Thanos for all of his wrongdoings, I just say blame the writers. Darth Vader didn't kill those kids and Tarkin didn't destroy Alderran, it was George Lucas.

Stop using doylist reasoning to defend Watsonian actions.

Mook said:
Agreed. Good thing the heroes have never tortured anyone. Heck, I don't think the villains have tortured anyone yet. Unless you count Roman beating information out of Ruby in Volume 2 I guess.

So, grabbing a man's balls and squeezing them for information isn't torture? You must disagree with the UN then.

Article 1 of the United Nations Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment is the internationally agreed legal definition of torture:
"Torture means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions
Source

Leila Hann · May 10, 2018

Jcogginsa said:
I got banned from that thread because I didn't go along with the Echo Chamber. It was 100 percent an echo chamber

Now you're saying the mods are in on the motiveless RWBY-hating conspiracy?

You were banned for arguing in bad faith and flipping your shit at other users.

Mook · May 10, 2018

Leila Hann said:
Also, please drop the lazy "echo chamber" argument. I could just as easily say the same thing of any longtime poster in THIS thread, given the reaction I've seen it have to any criticism of the show.

You think people in this thread agree on stuff? That people in this thread don't complain about stuff they didn't like about the show?

Oh you are just adorable. But seriously though, Leila, have you considered that maybe the problem is you? That maybe the reason people here react so strongly to your criticism is not because of the fact that you criticize but instead what you criticize?

Jcogginsa · May 10, 2018

Leila Hann said:
Now you're saying the mods are in on the motiveless RWBY-hating conspiracy?

You were banned for arguing in bad faith and flipping your shit at other users.

No, I'm saying that people in that thread couldn't stand someone having a different opinion from them, so they got me banned. Because that's what actually happened

I never once argued in bad faith

Uncle · May 10, 2018

Jcogginsa said:
No, I'm saying that people in that thread couldn't stand someone having a different opinion from them, so they got me banned. Because that's what actually happened

I never once argued in bad faith

The userbase of SV wishes it could control the mods like the way you're insinuating it does.

Leila Hann · May 10, 2018

Mook said:
You think people in this thread agree on stuff? That people in this thread don't complain about stuff they didn't like about the show?

Oh you are just adorable. But seriously though, Leila, have you considered that maybe the problem is you? That maybe the reason people here react so strongly to your criticism is not because of the fact that you criticize but instead what you criticize?

Uh, dude?

People in MY thread also disagree about stuff. Many of them have disagreed with me about stuff, and still do. All the way up through the current season.

My point is that I can mindlessly cry "echo chamber" at this thread just as easily as you can at mine. And you ARE doing it mindlessly. Its true that my thread is dominated by anti-RWBY sentiment, just as this one is by pro-RWBY sentiment. That's the unfortunate nature of web forums. But if you're calling it an "echo chamber," you just plain don't know what you're talking about, and - more importantly - don't care if you know what you're talking about.

You also completely dodged my point in the quoted post. Which is that most of the things you're getting salty at me about were issues I raised in the first few episodes, when the most vocal people included @Jcogginsa and several other fans.

Jcogginsa said:
No, I'm saying that people in that thread couldn't stand someone having a different opinion from them, so they got me banned. Because that's what actually happened

I never once argued in bad faith

That's not how SV works.

The Narrator · May 10, 2018

Y'know, even if Zwei couldn't open the cans, it's not like they couldn't have been planning to ask someone else to stop by and feed the dog for them. Pet owners who have to go out of town do that all the time.

...I'm not quite sure who they would ask since JNPR were leaving the next day, but I'm sure they could ask somebody. CFVY, maybe?

Zam · May 10, 2018

Uncle said:
So we can't hold characters responsible for their actions? That's an interesting defense.

When people criticize Thanos for all of his wrongdoings, I just say blame the writers. Darth Vader didn't kill those kids and Tarkin didn't destroy Alderran, it was George Lucas.

Stop using doylist reasoning to defend Watsonian actions.

Its a show, it is both Doylist and Watsonian and the entire bar fight was built on tropes, I'm not telling you to like it, but acting like its a horrendous act that speaks badly of Yang's character feels very much like just not acknowledging the media and zeitgeist.

But if you want to stick to in universe, Junior and the mooks were a tad cranky but Junior the 'wounded' party stood around drinking and talking to Yang, insulting the person she had along with her and clearly wasn't scared to say he had no info to offer, ergo he wasn't that bothered, so it probably wasn't that bad.

Leila Hann said:
You also completely dodged my most recent point. Which is that most of the things you're getting salty at me about were issues I raised in the first few episodes, when the most vocal people included @Jcogginsa and several other fans.

You seem to have abandoned proving you 'point' regarding Yang's character, which seems interesting given you just got some really big posts from other users about it, why zero in on this one and not those that actually engaged with you in god faith?

The Narrator said:
Y'know, even if Zwei couldn't open the cans, it's not like they couldn't have been planning to ask someone else to stop by and feed the dog for them. Pet owners who have to go out of town do that all the time.

...I'm not quite sure who they would ask since JNPR were leaving the next day, but I'm sure they could ask somebody. CFVY, maybe?

They could have asked Glynda even XD Tons of options, plus the indication he can, well, open cans and will be fine.

Leila Hann · May 10, 2018

Zam said:
You seem to have abandoned proving you 'point' regarding Yang's character, which seems interesting given you just got some really big posts from other users about it, why zero in on this one and not those that actually engaged with you in god faith?

Because I've already said everything I care to on the subject, and all the counterarguments posted since then are either just repetitions of shit I've already addressed or desperate attempts at inserting headcanon into the show to prop up its abysmal storytelling?

Leingod · May 10, 2018

Leila Hann said:
Nope.

Because of course you can just summarily dismiss any claim of dishonesty or misrepresentation by simply denying that you're doing so, as that is how debate works.

And then by claiming that anyone who argues against you is an intellectually dishonest whiner.

Mook said:
unimaginable power

"Unimaginable" is a stretch, though Ozpin does say that he gave the "bulk" of his power up to create the Maidens.

Jcogginsa said:
No, I'm saying that people in that thread couldn't stand someone having a different opinion from them, so they got me banned. Because that's what actually happened

I never once argued in bad faith

Looking over the thread of that argument I have to agree that you were being uncivil, though. It's usually not good practice to start calling people liars over their interpretations, no matter how nonsensical they seem to you.

Zam said:
You seem to have abandoned proving you 'point' regarding Yang's character, which seems interesting given you just got some really big posts from other users about it, why zero in on this one and not those that actually engaged with you in god faith?

I'd rather we all not do that, because it's starting to go in circles by this point.

Zam · May 10, 2018

Leila Hann said:
Because I've already said everything I care to on the subject, and all the counterarguments posted since then are either just repetitions of shit I've already addressed or desperate attempts at inserting headcanon into the show to prop up its abysmal storytelling?

You have in no way proved that or backed up your claims or offered worthwhile counter arguments. Particularly to the detailed scene by scene breakdown, such as this:

Mook said:
2. We also never see the friends Ruby had back at Signal, because it would be a waste of fucking time since they're useless background characters that do nothing to advance a story that already struggles with having giving enough screen-time to every character as it is.
Next is..... Wow. I thought I was used to your insanity but this really takes the cake. Could you please stop fucking lying?

"Yang: What about Jaune? He's... nice! There you go! Plus one friend! That's a hundred percent increase!

Yang: Look, it's only been one day. Trust me; you've got friends all around you! You just haven't met them yet!

Ruby: That girl...
Yang: You know her?
Ruby: Not really. She saw what happened this morning, but left before I could say anything.
Yang: Well, now's your chance! (grabs Ruby's arm and lifts her up)
Ruby: Wait! What are you doing?!
Blake looks over her book to see Ruby unsuccessfully struggling against Yang's grip as she leads her sister over to Blake's spot before letting go.
Yang: (singing) Hel-looooo! I believe you two may know each other?"

That is literally all Yang does. She did not do anything to indicate that Ruby couldn't bring her new friend along, hell she didn't even know that Jaune was Ruby's friend at that point. Ruby is the one that decides that she has to split up with Jaune to hang out with her sister, which is exactly the kind of thing Yang was trying to discourage by suggesting that she make her own friends. Hell later that night she actively encourages Ruby to think of Jaune as a friend and then tries to introduce her to Blake when Ruby expresses an interest in her.
Truly these are the words of a psychopath attempting to isolate her sister from other people.

Leingod said:
I'd rather we all not do that, because it's starting to go in circles by this point.

Fair enough, apologies it just frustrates me to see good points ignored.

Mook · May 10, 2018

Uncle said:
So we can't hold characters responsible for their actions? That's an interesting defense.

When people criticize Thanos for all of his wrongdoings, I just say blame the writers. Darth Vader didn't kill those kids and Tarkin didn't destroy Alderran, it was George Lucas.

Stop using doylist reasoning to defend Watsonian actions.

So, grabbing a man's balls and squeezing them for information isn't torture? You must disagree with the UN then.

Have you actually asked someone who has more knowledge than a 5 second wikipedia search on this topic?

"Torture means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession,

Because if clenching someone's balls counts as torture then the term becomes so broad as to be basically meaningless. Arm-locks and leg-locks become torture under this definition. When your definition of torture includes Indian sunburns and other pre-school pranks then it ceases to be a useful definition for determining someone's morality or mental health. So sure, I cede that Yang "tortured" Junior. I also posit that any schoolyard brawl where someone used a nipple twister to get someone to reveal where they'd hidden lunch money they stole was now an act of torture.

Leila Hann said:
Uh, dude?

People in MY thread also disagree about stuff. Many of them have disagreed with me about stuff, and still do. All the way up through the current season.

My point is that I can mindlessly cry "echo chamber" at this thread just as easily as you can at mine. And you ARE doing it mindlessly. Its true that my thread is dominated by anti-RWBY sentiment, just as this one is by pro-RWBY sentiment. That's the unfortunate nature of web forums. But if you're calling it an "echo chamber," you just plain don't know what you're talking about, and - more importantly - don't care if you know what you're talking about.

You also completely dodged my point in the quoted post. Which is that most of the things you're getting salty at me about were issues I raised in the first few episodes, when the most vocal people included @Jcogginsa and several other fans.

I was going to make a response to this but honestly

Leila Hann said:
Because I've already said everything I care to on the subject, and all the counterarguments posted since then are either just repetitions of shit I've already addressed or desperate attempts at inserting headcanon into the show to prop up its abysmal storytelling?

Stuff like this just makes it seem completely pointless. Why bother arguing with you when you are so clearly debating in bad faith? You go around accusing us of making desperate attempts to insert headcanons while still clinging to one of the most blatantly reaching cases of headcanon I have ever seen.

Edit:

Leingod said:
"Unimaginable" is a stretch, though Ozpin does say that he gave the "bulk" of his power up to create the Maidens.

Qrow's word from the show. Clearly not meant to be taken literally but it seems pretty appropriate considering the whole literal mountain shaking and actual weather control the Maidens are capable of.

Leila Hann · May 10, 2018

Leingod said:
Because of course you can just summarily dismiss any claim of dishonesty or misrepresentation by simply denying that you're doing so, as that is how debate works.

And then by claiming that anyone who argues against you is an intellectually dishonest whiner.

Well, you said I was intentionally misconstruing the show. The truth is that I was not. Hence, my best answer to your post is a simple "no." I've done my best to prove that I've been honest in my reactions and opinions, but you don't seem to accept that, so "no" is pretty much the best I can do at this point.

Meanwhile, screaming "echo chamber" at anyone you disagree with is just about the most tired of salty internet copouts.

Uncle · May 10, 2018

Zam said:
Its a show, it is both Doylist and Watsonian and the entire bar fight was built on tropes, I'm not telling you to like it, but acting like its a horrendous act that speaks badly of Yang's character feels very much like just not acknowledging the media and zeitgeist.

But if you want to stick to in universe, Junior and the mooks were a tad cranky but Junior the 'wounded' party stood around drinking and talking to Yang, insulting the person she had along with her and clearly wasn't scared to say he had no info to offer, ergo he wasn't that bothered, so it probably wasn't that bad.

You haven't addressed the question. Should we not hold characters responsible for their actions?

@Mook
From the look on Junior's face and the tone of his voice, I'd say he was in some severe pain.

Even if it wasn't torture, it was still assault, sexual assault at that.

RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

Good Civ Inspector

Immaculate Blooming Lotus

Disembodied Voice

Immaculate Blooming Lotus