RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

[kokuenDG]

so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.

 

[1986ctcel]

Ya know, Blake, maybe if your family funneled some of their money back into the community instead of blowing it all on building a giant palace and living the high life, maybe, just maybe the situation in Menagerie could be improved. Hey, maybe you could even, y'know, hire a bunch of people to build a local CCT, or at least change things so that the rest of the faunus can live in nicer houses, and maybe have nobody living in tents. You know, just a suggestion, because of how concerned you are over the "plight of the faunus." Perhaps you could start looking inward to see if you can change your life instead of automatically assuming everything is someone else's fault? Like, I get it, faunus were shit on in the past, and Menagerie was a kind of lame consolation prize, but you live in a goddamned palace. It could be that not everything is the fault of prejudiced humans. Just putting that out there.

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I realize you have some insane hate for Blake that makes you interpret everything she does and says in the worst possible way but could you try being at least a little subtle?

*A paraphrased earlier post of yours* "Blake didn't tell Yang she lived in a huge house with her parents SHE'S THE MOST HORRIBLE PERSON EVER!"

 

[thesevenwielder]

*A paraphrased earlier post of yours* "Blake didn't tell Yang she lived in a huge house with her parents SHE'S THE MOST HORRIBLE PERSON EVER!"

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Stop saying bullshit.

It wasn't that Blake didn't say she lived in a huge house with her parents. It's that Blake never mentioned she even had parents. I wouldn't be surprised if Yang, like everyone else, thought Blake was an orphan.

 

[Storyteller]

It's that Blake never mentioned she even had parents. I wouldn't be surprised if Yang, like everyone else, thought Blake was an orphan.

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Honestly I think the fact that her friends don't know about the former abusive relationship with Adam may be a factor. Which does inform part of the idea of Blake not having parents due to how lack of support plays into such relationships.

Now if you meet a young adult or teenager just round town, would you assume their parents alive or dead? To Blake she's normal and frankly upper class on Menagerie not an urchin. In her mind there's no reason to assume that her parents are dead. She just isn't going to bring them up due to them being former prominent Faunus activists blows her cover.

There may be a cultural miscommunication here. Blake is from Menagerie aka Faunus central. For her while growing up the Faunus protestors weren't a minority, desperate and unusual of the population. The White Fang in Menagerie seemingly are community leaders. Heck, her father is called "your grace" and seemingly still has a lot of influence with the inhabitants of Menagerie. Sure there probably are less fortunate protesting as well. But the White Fang previously weren't a rabble. Protesting and rallies take a lot of organizing for logistics of feeding, sleeping and transportation.

The others while assuming her parents were dead may have been quiet because assumed to be dead. Blake wasn't talking about because, in her mind being with the radical White Fang likely tarnished her father's work. I mean, I never really talk about my parents because my family's political views differ from my surrounding area. Given that Blake is wearing a bow to pass, her parents would something else to avoid revealing to the general public. Due to my age, people don't assume my parents are dead though. Someone assuming they're dead would be a surprise in a "why would you think?" Way. Blake didn't grow up in a social environment where her parents being dead would be usual. So why would she mention her parents beyond to start an argument considering the radicalized White Fang?

 

[Darmani]

The others while assuming her parents were dead may have been quiet because assumed to be dead. Blake wasn't talking about because, in her mind being with the radical White Fang likely tarnished her father's work. I mean, I never really talk about my parents because my family's political views differ from my surrounding area. Given that Blake is wearing a bow to pass, her parents would something else to avoid revealing to the general public. Due to my age, people don't assume my parents are dead though. Someone assuming they're dead would be a surprise in a "why would you think?" Way. Blake didn't grow up in a social environment where her parents being dead would be usual. So why would she mention her parents beyond to start an argument considering the radicalized White Fang?

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Yes she did, she was a teenager on the run from her past in a murder world who acts like she has to do everything alone and she left her only family.
All this is STILL true. Its just its assumed she was further estranged from her parents than "ran off with extreme boyfriend, and then ran from him" and not, ya know, back home to the powerful and influential family that could offer her guidance, protection, and likely some retaliation to Adam's mistreatment, if not highlight how this is going down a path that will fail the Faunus, not free them.

 

[Tython82]

if not highlight how this is going down a path that will fail the Faunus, not free them.

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This aspect was already somewhat addressed when Oobleck questioned her on her motives and how she would go about to succeed and she had no answer at all in fact she has no idea how to go about it as shown in Season 2 episode 10.

 

[Storyteller]

All this is STILL true. Its just its assumed she was further estranged from her parents than "ran off with extreme boyfriend, and then ran from him" and not, ya know, back home to the powerful and influential family that could offer her guidance, protection, and likely some retaliation to Adam's mistreatment, if not highlight how this is going down a path that will fail the Faunus, not free them.

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The after effects of an abusive relationship. And the perceived shame from both that and running away in the first place.

 

[Zam]

Given Blake's parents are still close to the White Fang and presumably knew she was a member I feel people may be underestimating how intimidating going back to them would be, because they were implicitly endorsing the White Fang's actions, they were implicitly endorsing Adam's actions, Blake didn't know their news had been censored or if so for how long. How on earth would she feel 'safe' going back there if she'd under the impression that they might actually approve of Adam's action, approve of his treatment of her, Beacon was a tipping point when combined with Adam's threats, but before that for all she knew they supported Adam and the WF.

Also I feel people radically overstate how much influence Gira has, yeah he's called your grace, (By traitors) and runs a fishing village disconnected from the rest of the planet, the WF are all over the world and led by Sienna Khan and people like Adam, who have camps, soldiers, and an existing command and communication structure. Ghira almost certainly couldn't have just gone "Hey I don't approve of how violent you're getting" and actually change anything, heck, he'd need to get on a boat first, then find the camps and the leaders and that relies on him even knowing, and even then who's to say how far his influence spreads outside Menagerie? Again, Sienna is the leader of the WF now, he stepped down, who are they going to listen to, their leader whose methods (even according to Blake who disapproves) worked, or their former leader who leads a fishing village and has little to no contact with the rest of the world.

 

[Darmani]

I didn't expect Ghira to stop it all with his manly chest hair. but the White Fang until Adam went all in was dragging its feet. Having a respected voice, that still has to be deceived by the fox bros, go "Adam abused my daughter, she says his methods are hateful and spread fear which will NOT further our interests and goals. At the least his character should be held to question, don't let him lead you blindly"

Mind Adam's likely winning because.. well he's WINNING. He's bringing in arms, connections, stopping trains, Dust which even if not for battle is superlatively useful, and is so powerful on his own he can take out some pretty badass huntress's himself. Also whatever his faults he's charismatic and offers retaliation in a situation that might not be destitute but seems unbudging or unresolvable. Heck Raven graduated a Huntress but came to a life of banditry. Imagine if you're a slum kid faunus and along comes the group that can train you in aura, supply you with dust, and is undermining the arms of the military tech giant even the human authorities feel anxious about. If there is a revolution or a party you'd want to be on the ground floor.

Moreover, again, if the White Fang provides more than just place to stew in hate and masks to go vandalize in, being a support network, social care, religious institution, fraternity, or veterans lodge or all of these you likely can't divorce yourself from it. You can see these in some ethnic minority communities either muslims in Britain, East Asians in Canada, and of course the US's popular black community and its many networks and groups of businesses, thinkers, entertainers, churches, schools, and families that rose as an alternative due to neglect and segregation and out and out legalized abuse. The White Fang's domination is likely because they come from a centralized backing source sort of.. ugh please don't take this the wrong way say uhm urgh... uhm say Jews and Israel? Better and less contraversial Christianity and the Vatican/RCC. That is there was this creation of place everyone was tied to and in doing so the Faunus developed and transnational identity of which the White Fang was the vector. With that came community but also a sort of training package and culture that came to embody what we see today.

I imagine some want to fight (Khan) others just want to build a world worth being proud of (Ghira) or the divide isn't that sharp. Afterall the fox brothers, ostensibly, accepted Blakes retirement and Ghira is held in some respect, likely due to past accomplishments, for his own focus.

And again Salem and Cinder have been helping stoke these fires, mind with very real grievances and problems but helping to get people focused on the wrong solutions or mindset. At the very least the White Fang aren't empowering Faunus to better themselves but training them to be zealots for war that's bringing about anarchy as a step to Salem's grand strategy.

 

[Zam]

I didn't expect Ghira to stop it all with his manly chest hair. but the White Fang until Adam went all in was dragging its feet. Having a respected voice, that still has to be deceived by the fox bros, go "Adam abused my daughter, she says his methods are hateful and spread fear which will NOT further our interests and goals. At the least his character should be held to question, don't let him lead you blindly"

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As an aside, I broadly speaking agree with most of what you say below this segment regarding the White Fang and why it is the way it is.

While I get what you're saying I feel there's a few things missing contextually speaking, the first is that Sienna and seemingly a council lead the White Fang while Adam was just a high ranking commander, one of the less practical one's if his decision to blow up rather than rob the train is any indication but he could probably play that kind of thing off if he was careful and it was still hurting the enemy after all.

Regardless of Adam's rank though he was high up and seemingly quite respected if Bane's deference to him was anything to go by and Cinder opting to try and talk, then force, him in on her deal. The fact someone like Adam is high up would say a lot about the current White Fang's mentality, he isn't a lone voice so much as the loudest speaker of many, and anyone who likes his ideas would be unlikely to listen to Ghira and given Sienna is the actual leader and also advocated violence, though maybe not pointlessly blowing stuff up, that to me says that Ghira couldn't easily exert influence over them.

I'm not saying him trying to push back into WF politics couldn't cause divisions or fragmentation, but as I noted, he's now the leader of what amounts to a fishing village while the White Fang is a seemingly global para-military organisation mostly outside of his contact range or direct sphere of influence and led by people who both disagree with his ideal and were getting more success their way than his.

Plus, as I noted, Blake's parents seemed to know she was still fighting in the WF, she presumably didn't know their information was being filtered, which to her would communicate that they may be OK with what the WF were doing, with what Adam did both to others and her, add in the kind of shame and self loathing both fighting and being abused can place in a persons mind and it doesn't shock me she didn't go to them until she was pretty much all out of options.

Plus I feel its worth noting that despite coming 'home' she still hasn't explained a ton about what happened, about Adam, about Yang getting her arm cut off because Adam was using her as a prop to make Blake suffer, this isn't stuff that is easy to talk about, especially when one is not guaranteed a positive reaction.

 

[Tikigod784]

A big part of Blake's character is running away. Given her past, it's somewhat understandable. It results in her never solving anything and making things worse, for the most part. She keeps making the same mistakes regardless of what she wants. It's going to be a long hard road for her to change herself, and I don't think she's even truly started yet.

Also, I may be missing something in regards to Ruby, but Yang, Blake and Weiss (to me, at any rate) have way more interesting internal conflicts they're facing in regards to their character growth than their leader seems to.

It just seems like Ruby's the only one that's kinda alright despite losing Penny and Pyrrha, so she's not as... engaging, somehow? Ruby's issues are also fresher, whereas her teammates' issues are simply coming to the forefront and crippling them this season.

Thoughts?

 

[Zam]

Also, I may be missing something in regards to Ruby, but Yang, Blake and Weiss (to me, at any rate) have way more interesting internal conflicts they're facing in regards to their character growth than their leader seems to.

It just seems like Ruby's the only one that's kinda alright despite losing Penny and Pyrrha, so she's not as... engaging, somehow? Ruby's issues are also fresher, whereas her teammates' issues are simply coming to the forefront and crippling them this season.

Thoughts?

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I think for Ruby its because a lot of her character focus and current issues have been relatively subtle, there's a really cool analyse that talks about Ruby's character focus throughout V1, 2 & 3 and how it ties into a larger arc and culminates in discussing her current state where, in their and a few others eyes, Ruby is basically just "not" dealing with Penny's death, or Pyrrha's, or Yang's crippling injury and depression which she had no idea how to respond to, or her team breaking up.

Instead she puts on a happy face around JNPR and pushes on, only briefly falling into sadder self reflection when alone or dreaming, but shutting it off when it starts to manifest, while focusing outwardly on other people and things she can do, that is to say she has no idea how to help someone with depression or who is grieving, but she can crack jokes when said things aren't consuming them to keep people looking up & she 'can' fight Cinder even if she can't quite process her own grief.

That was their take anyway.

 

[Tikigod784]

I think for Ruby its because a lot of her character focus and current issues have been relatively subtle, there's a really cool analyse that talks about Ruby's character focus throughout V1, 2 & 3 and how it ties into a larger arc and culminates in discussing her current state where, in their and a few others eyes, Ruby is basically just "not" dealing with Penny's death, or Pyrrha's, or Yang's crippling injury and depression which she had no idea how to respond to, or her team breaking up.

Instead she puts on a happy face around JNPR and pushes on, only briefly falling into sadder self reflection when alone or dreaming, but shutting it off when it starts to manifest, while focusing outwardly on other people and things she can do, that is to say she has no idea how to help someone with depression or who is grieving, but she can crack jokes when said things aren't consuming them to keep people looking up & she 'can' fight Cinder even if she can't quite process her own grief.

That was their take anyway.

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That's an interesting take on it. If that's the case, the rest of her team dealing with their own issues could lead to a disconnect even after they reunite, leading to further issues. It also lets the contrast in this volume have a point to it if you view it in the long term.

Also, given that Qrow seems like he turns to alcohol in order to ignore his issues, I have to wonder if that attitude somehow trickled down to Ruby in a way. Not through alcohol but through "being a Hunter." I have to wonder if it's the case that Cinder is really just an excuse for her to get away from her problems or an assumed solution to all her current inner conflicts. She could defeat Cinder in the next episode and she might still feel lost...

(And then Salem sweeps in, huh. Could be an interesting twist. But I'm rambling.)

 

[Zam]

That's an interesting take on it. If that's the case, the rest of her team dealing with their own issues could lead to a disconnect even after they reunite, leading to further issues. It also lets the contrast in this volume have a point to it if you view it in the long term.

Also, given that Qrow seems like he turns to alcohol in order to ignore his issues, I have to wonder if that attitude somehow trickled down to Ruby in a way. Not through alcohol but through "being a Hunter." I have to wonder if it's the case that Cinder is really just an excuse for her to get away from her problems or an assumed solution to all her current inner conflicts. She could defeat Cinder in the next episode and she might still feel lost...

(And then Salem sweeps in, huh. Could be an interesting twist. But I'm rambling.)

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Glad you like it, and yeah the overarching theory a few people have regarding the idea is that something is going to push Ruby to the brink this volume or the next and her walls of distraction will come tumbling down.

Definitely possible, the people I read from also suggested it could have been a coping mechanism she inadvertently picked up from Yang in a kind of "smile and joke when things are bad" way over Qrow's drinking, though in many respect it seems that entire household isn't great at confronting their issues, Qrow as you noted drinks, Ruby seems to be hiding behind a mask, Yang struggles to speak of her own problems and when something Tai doesn't like comes up (Raven) he deflects or tries to cut the conversation short. Essentially, to me, it looks like the whole family really need to talk out their issues but are all terrible at it.

But yeah, Ruby focusing on fighting Cinder is basically her distraction its something she "can" do, namely fighting, defeat the villains solve the problem, its a clear goal and a straight forward concept, much less emotionally harrowing that trying to help Yang cope with depression, or having to look inward and face the demons she doesn't want to admit she has. I could totally see Ruby suffering from a case of "lost purpose" if she did defeat the villain, it won't bring anyone back, won't fix anybody, it'll just stop things from getting worse, a consolation prize for a troubled soul at best.

Sorry I'm rambling too

 

[Pumparum]

I didn't find Sun's dynamic with Blake's parents funny, for all the comedic effect it was played for. The disapproving dad, the approving mother thing, yawn. I know they've battled together many times and the two of them went through the fall of Vale together (or at least in each other's presence) but these romantic undertones with Sun and Blake feel 'flat', for lack of a better word. Almost as flat as Jaune's crush on Weiss despite not really knowing her or having any heart-to-heart scenes. It's like the characters act the way they do for the sake writing scenes that imitate other shows. I do like RWBY, I went into the show turning my brain off and going along with the idea of 'watch cool-looking characters have cool-looking fights' but it's kind of lacking something. Volume 3 was really enjoyable and raised my expectations for what's to come but we're five episodes into Volume 4 and I'm not sure what feels off about it.

 

[Sinsystems]

So I've been doing some thinking in regards to Neo and Raven. Specifically how when Raven showed up to save Yang on the train Neo had a silent freak out before running, now it might just be me but I've always wondered why she would have done that unless she knew exactly who Raven was and how utterly screwed she'd be if she tried to fight her.

Now there are a few possible explanations

1. Neo being an experienced fighter and Criminal could just tell right away how out of her league Raven was. Personally I find this possible but honestly rather boring.
2. Raven was on a short list of people Cinder gave Roman of people you run away from if they appear. While I can see Cinder providing such a list I don't see her having Raven on it due to the need-to-know nature of their operations and the fact that she'd have no reason to suspect a Bandit chief from interfering with an operation in Vale.
3. Raven has strong enough reputation in the criminal underworld for Neo to know about her. This option I feel we can debunk right away due to the fact that Junior didn't know anything when Yang showed him a picture of what I believe has been confirmed to be Raven.
4. Finally and what I believe is most likely, Neo had encountered Raven before. Specifically before Neo went criminal and probably before she went mute she lived in a village that was attacked by Raven's tribe, probably was the only survivor and the trauma was what made her go mute and she turned to crime in order to survive and ended up enjoying t.

But those are just my theories, but if the 4th one is true then that probably gives Neo amble motivation on to try to kill Yang on top of the obvious stuff, hell I can even see her acting as Yang's primary antagonist while she's in Vale.

 

[Tython82]

So I've been doing some thinking in regards to Neo and Raven. Specifically how when Raven showed up to save Yang on the train Neo had a silent freak out before running, now it might just be me but I've always wondered why she would have done that unless she knew exactly who Raven was and how utterly screwed she'd be if she tried to fight her.

Now there are a few possible explanations

1. Neo being an experienced fighter and Criminal could just tell right away how out of her league Raven was. Personally I find this possible but honestly rather boring.
2. Raven was on a short list of people Cinder gave Roman of people you run away from if they appear. While I can see Cinder providing such a list I don't see her having Raven on it due to the need-to-know nature of their operations and the fact that she'd have no reason to suspect a Bandit chief from interfering with an operation in Vale.
3. Raven has strong enough reputation in the criminal underworld for Neo to know about her. This option I feel we can debunk right away due to the fact that Junior didn't know anything when Yang showed him a picture of what I believe has been confirmed to be Raven.
4. Finally and what I believe is most likely, Neo had encountered Raven before. Specifically before Neo went criminal and probably before she went mute she lived in a village that was attacked by Raven's tribe, probably was the only survivor and the trauma was what made her go mute and she turned to crime in order to survive and ended up enjoying t.

But those are just my theories, but if the 4th one is true then that probably gives Neo amble motivation on to try to kill Yang on top of the obvious stuff, hell I can even see her acting as Yang's primary antagonist while she's in Vale.

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5th possibility might be that Neo was a former member of her tribe.

Also the picture Yang showed and the reason she went to Juniors bar for said information could be Raven but we don't know for certain since it is never brought up again not even in passing when she is talking to Qrow about her mom.

 

[blast flame]

Alternatively while Raven may not be common knowledge what those masks mean might be. (The pic Yang showed Junior didn't involve her mask)

 

[Feng Lengshun]

If there's barely any Faunus to see or interact with I'd feel that's a reason to not see the discrimination. Again not saying it couldn't have been done better, but I am heavily against trying to prop up a narrative of the Faunus as just dicks.

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The thing is that "Faunus being dicks," as you put it, is a real possibility because of how debatable the Faunus sub-plot has become. It's really annoying to me because we have three volumes, which is at least one season if you want to be very generous with it, and an entire episode and backstory interlude dedicated to it in the latest volume yet we're still not entirely sure what is up with the Faunus.

As I said, if the intent was to cast doubt on the Faunus side, then that would be an interesting twist. Interpreting that as a possible direction that the creators are going for is valid as well because it's possible to take it that way now. On the other hand, the creator seems to want to sell the narrative that the Faunus is being unfairly discriminated upon. That's okay, but I'm just saying that to me, they are selling it very, very poorly. And I don't think there's anything wrong with criticism or pointing out an alternative opinion or views on things, is there?

So to counter your first point, moving is not that simple, it takes time, money, effort, access to another location and a means of survival and a consistent income with which to support one's self; so saying "You could just move out of the way of my (For example) massive wrecking ball so I can build my new shop" is an inherently flawed argument because people do not necessarily have the means to do so and may actually be rather attached to their homes. If the foot actively decided "Hey screw this ant" then it is their fault.

So if I found out some info about you that you didn't want shared and used it to extort you into giving up this debate you'd be, maybe a bit frustrated but fine with it? Because this is a discussion, the goal is to "win" after all, just like a business is to make money. I;m not actually threatening anything, but this seemed an apt example.

Edit 1: On Flynt's reaction as well, I feel you're being rather unfair, he brought up that his families store was driven out of business by Weiss's dad and glowered, and snarked a bit about Weiss's money not being enough to buy her skill, that was it, and FNKY 'were' trying to get under their opponents skin anyway. I mean its not like he swore to kill Weiss or destroy her life because of it or anything.

I am heavily against this kind of narrative because I feel it either does not acknowledge or dismisses the differences between two competing groups and is basically just a self justification for stomping on people weaker than one's self.

It feels a lot like Raven's ideals, namely survival of the fittest, but that doesn't make it OK for her to slaughter people just because she can. The thing about this kind of ideology is that its utilised more often than not to justify the powerful holding power and using against those weaker, and the moment someone stronger turns up, it falls apart, because as it turns out people don;t like it when "they" are the one's losing.

Edit 2: On the "leg amputee" argument I feel its worth noting that Flynt's dad presumably didn't challenge the SDC they just moved in, there'd be no logical reason for the Coal family to try and open a small store "near" an already functioning SDC store, so the comparison feels inaccurate and reductive.

Edit 3: The original Full Metal Alchemist actually had a great scene on this because the fundamental rule of alchemy was "You get out what you put in" but the villain points out that "There were people who had studied for decades longer than you but never got the job or the skills you did because of a lack of natural talent or resources or good teachers ETC, equivalent exchange is a lie." That is to say just saying "You'd succeed if you tried harder and thought more creatively" is unfair and inaccurate and puts all the responsibility on the person suffering for being in that situation.

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Spoiler: For length

My reaction in a nutshell: This is why I hate using metaphors. Seriously, the first paragraph missed the entirety of my point and what I was trying to convey. I wasn't talking about a person moving geographically at all.

The important to remember about business is that it's a competition. You can't expect everyone to win in a competition. And there's a limited amount of market share you can get, it's a zero-sum game where one side's winning naturally means a proportional loss on the other sides regardless of their intent. Now if the argument was that SDC used underhanded means when they were purposefully destroying Flynt's dad's business, as he implied it, then yeah, that's something to complain/criticize about.

What Flynt's statement was lacking in context, he's only referring to the fact that his dad's business went bankrupt and that allegedly the SDC made it that way. There's no detail as to why he's blaming them at all. What it sounds to me is that he's blaming the SDC for winning, not for the method by which they win or anything else. Disputing the method by which person won is a fair game, but disputing the fact that, while they held the advantage, all in all they won fair and square through hard work and good strategy? Now that's whiny and unsporting. That's what I have a problem with. We don't know how exactly Flynt's dad's business went down and he conveyed it so poorly that it sounds that way to me.

Now, I get that both of them were trying to make their enemy angry but goddammit does it sound really pathetic to me. Also, because of that, it can't really be used as an evidence for SDC's shadiness as he has additional motives behind the statement and has no reasoning behind it at all.

Oh, and in regards to the equivalent exchange, it's not a lie as it only stated that "To gain something, you have to pay it with something else." It's just that not everyone is created equally or starts at the same starting line, whether by their fault or not, so others needed less effort to get what they want because they started closer to it. It ain't their fault that fate saw it right to give them such a blessing, but there really isn't anything that the other guy can do other than try harder. Blaming the guy for starting further apart and then getting what they want for less effort is unproductive and pathetic. Blame fate if you must, because it wasn't the guy's fault he was blessed by fate and had the gall to want something then succeeding at it.

On another note: In regards to Black Sun shipping, I am still not entirely sold on it. The two just didn't have the chemistry Blake and Yang has even back in the first volume. They also don't have the same emotional backbone to it, either. I don't really dispute that the show is leaning towards Black Sun or that I want Bumbleby to be a thing, but I just don't buy into it yet. I just don't feel any emotion into it just yet. Yes, Sun's clearly interested, and there are hints that Blake is starting to warm up as well, but it's not enough. They need to show better dynamics between each other and they have to share a deeper emotional bond and has more emotional moments as well. This volume is on the right track, but I don't think it's enough yet to sell me on the idea.

That's why I'm more leaning towards Bumbleby in my preference (admittedly, the fanarts influenced that a fair bit as they look absolutely cute together), though I would say that I'm more towards NanoFate, Subaru/Teana, or Sherlock and Watson style Heterosexual Life-Partners relationship rather than a real They Do result with them. As of right now, I'd would like to see an "And then they continue to have adventures together," shot for the epilogue in regards to them, though I would honestly rather take an epilogue that doesn't hint towards either way over one that shows Blake and Sun being husband and wife/having a kid. It still feels too forced right now. Even Ruby-Jaune pair has a better dynamics, chemistry, and emotional backbone into it right now and they aren't visibly being paired together.

 

[Pumparum]

The two just didn't have the chemistry Blake and Yang has even back in the first volume.

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Yeah, I agree. I'm surprised and almost confused that there's basically a Black Sun song, and that the lyrics are anything but subtle. I don't ship Black Sun or Bumblebee, I don't ship at all but if there is a romantic subplot in any story I appreciate it when it's executed well. They're so blatant about Sun's crush on her yet it hasn't gone anywhere in so many episodes that I can't tell if it's meant to be bait for the shippers in the fanbase or if they really are building it up to be an actual plot point.

 

[Jcogginsa]

I thought Sun and Blake had chemistry in season one, but lost it as Sun became goofier

 

[Tython82]

Yeah, I agree. I'm surprised and almost confused that there's basically a Black Sun song, and that the lyrics are anything but subtle. I don't ship Black Sun or Bumblebee, I don't ship at all but if there is a romantic subplot in any story I appreciate it when it's executed well. They're so blatant about Sun's crush on her yet it hasn't gone anywhere in so many episodes that I can't tell if it's meant to be bait for the shippers in the fanbase or if they really are building it up to be an actual plot point.

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Might be a combination of baiting or a serious love interest and plot point, as for the plot point well, Adam did say that he was going to take away or kill/destroy(which word did he use again?) everything Blake loves so if Blake falls for Sun well one more target on the list to use and hurt Blake.

 

[Zam]

The thing is that "Faunus being dicks," as you put it, is a real possibility because of how debatable the Faunus sub-plot has become. It's really annoying to me because we have three volumes, which is at least one season if you want to be very generous with it, and an entire episode and backstory interlude dedicated to it in the latest volume yet we're still not entirely sure what is up with the Faunus.

As I said, if the intent was to cast doubt on the Faunus side, then that would be an interesting twist. Interpreting that as a possible direction that the creators are going for is valid as well because it's possible to take it that way now. On the other hand, the creator seems to want to sell the narrative that the Faunus is being unfairly discriminated upon. That's okay, but I'm just saying that to me, they are selling it very, very poorly. And I don't think there's anything wrong with criticism or pointing out an alternative opinion or views on things, is there?

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We literally had a video two weeks ago that covered the Faunus have been actively murdered and enslaved just for existing for all of recorded history. And has been noted several times we barely see any Faunus who aren't passing.

There isn't. but I find the idea of "The discriminated against minority are actually bad" to be both unpleasant as a concept and also to not match up with what we've actually seen.

Spoiler

My reaction in a nutshell: This is why I hate using metaphors. Seriously, the first paragraph missed the entirety of my point and what I was trying to convey. I wasn't talking about a person moving geographically at all.

The important to remember about business is that it's a competition. You can't expect everyone to win in a competition. And there's a limited amount of market share you can get, it's a zero-sum game where one side's winning naturally means a proportional loss on the other sides regardless of their intent. Now if the argument was that SDC used underhanded means when they were purposefully destroying Flynt's dad's business, as he implied it, then yeah, that's something to complain/criticize about.

What Flynt's statement was lacking in context, he's only referring to the fact that his dad's business went bankrupt and that allegedly the SDC made it that way. There's no detail as to why he's blaming them at all. What it sounds to me is that he's blaming the SDC for winning, not for the method by which they win or anything else. Disputing the method by which person won is a fair game, but disputing the fact that, while they held the advantage, all in all they won fair and square through hard work and good strategy? Now that's whiny and unsporting. That's what I have a problem with. We don't know how exactly Flynt's dad's business went down and he conveyed it so poorly that it sounds that way to me.

Now, I get that both of them were trying to make their enemy angry but goddammit does it sound really pathetic to me. Also, because of that, it can't really be used as an evidence for SDC's shadiness as he has additional motives behind the statement and has no reasoning behind it at all.

Oh, and in regards to the equivalent exchange, it's not a lie as it only stated that "To gain something, you have to pay it with something else." It's just that not everyone is created equally or starts at the same starting line, whether by their fault or not, so others needed less effort to get what they want because they started closer to it. It ain't their fault that fate saw it right to give them such a blessing, but there really isn't anything that the other guy can do other than try harder. Blaming the guy for starting further apart and then getting what they want for less effort is unproductive and pathetic. Blame fate if you must, because it wasn't the guy's fault he was blessed by fate and had the gall to want something then succeeding at it.

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Given its been covered that the SDC use shady business tactics and partners any assumption that they won anything fairly, to me is inherently suspect, and one massive company driving much smaller one's out of business can hardly be called "fair and square" in terms of a competition, for comparisons sake, there's a reason we have weight classes in boxing, and monopolies are bad for everyone. Plus if, lets say a bank had given you a loan and then decided they wanted their money back and took your house, wouldn't you be a little upset regardless of the actions actual legality, especially if it really negatively impacted yourself or people you cared about?

Equivalent exchange is built on the principle of something of equal value being lost, not simply "something". Blaming the person who was born with less for not being able to succeed when placed against someone born with more is also incredibly self serving. Like I said, its basically a self justification for selfish and a lack of empathy or responsibility "Its not "my" fault I was born rich, you should just try harder." - "Trying hard won't magically get me into a college if I was born into a country that actively discriminated against me and won't let me in no matter how smart I am." Its basically playing into the lie that "all that matter is your capability" despite that being a nice thought, its not true, never has been, but its used as an excuse to say poor people deserve to be that way so they never deserve any help by those in power.

Plus, again, all Flynt really did was bring it up and express some frustration/sadness about the loss of his fathers business, its not like he swore to murder Weiss over it or anything, so calling it ;whiny' feels unfair to me, would you call it whiny for someone to be put out by their arm being broken?

On another note: In regards to Black Sun shipping, I am still not entirely sold on it. The two just didn't have the chemistry Blake and Yang has even back in the first volume. They also don't have the same emotional backbone to it, either. I don't really dispute that the show is leaning towards Black Sun or that I want Bumbleby to be a thing, but I just don't buy into it yet. I just don't feel any emotion into it just yet. Yes, Sun's clearly interested, and there are hints that Blake is starting to warm up as well, but it's not enough. They need to show better dynamics between each other and they have to share a deeper emotional bond and has more emotional moments as well. This volume is on the right track, but I don't think it's enough yet to sell me on the idea.

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I will say that I definitely agree with you on this though save the last sentence.

Yeah, I agree. I'm surprised and almost confused that there's basically a Black Sun song, and that the lyrics are anything but subtle. I don't ship Black Sun or Bumblebee, I don't ship at all but if there is a romantic subplot in any story I appreciate it when it's executed well. They're so blatant about Sun's crush on her yet it hasn't gone anywhere in so many episodes that I can't tell if it's meant to be bait for the shippers in the fanbase or if they really are building it up to be an actual plot point.

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I've actually heard that, that song was actually just something the band wrote ages ago they wanted on the album. But yeah I do agree with you, was never exactly fond of the pairing given the whole "I saw you and am now interested" thing and I don't feel its been particularly well executed since then. If they're building it up for a switch with the assumption of them being paired being used as part of it until the switch happens I'll be impressed.

 

[thesevenwielder]

I hope as incompetently as it is being executed, Black Sun becomes a thing.

 

[Sunder the Gold]

I don't know their history with RVB, but it seems possible that Rooster Teeth are better at portraying friendships than romances.

Thus, if there actually is better chemistry between Blake and Yang, that might be an accident of better writing rather than a sign they're going to become a canon couple.

 

[anailater]

Man do you guys ever consider you might be overthinking literally everything about the show to an insane degree?