RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

[kokuenDG]

so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.

 

[Sasha]

Small family coffeeshops exist despite the presence of Starbucks. In both large and small towns.

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True, but small family-owned hardware stores exist as well, and those tend to go out of business when a Home Depot or a Walmart goes up next door. In all likelihood the same thing happened to the Flynt family store.

 

[Zam]

Small family coffeeshops exist despite the presence of Starbucks. In both large and small towns.

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I'm not sure what your argument here is to be honest. It sort of feels like saying "In X area muggings haven't happened so there's no need to worry about theft in area Y."

The show has been saying that, but inside the show itself... what I've seen goes contrary to that narrative. Hence my confusion and general WTF sentiment. Sure, Blake and WoR has been saying that throughout the show, but what I do see points to the contrary.

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We barely 'see' any Faunus though, Blake is passing, Velvet and Sun mostly hang around the main cast though the former was actively tormented in public and no one was penalised and that's about it.

Edit: We do see some in the background, though not many, but not actively being beaten in the streets doesn't negate the existence of prejudice.

I have a different view on business management which basically boils down to "The onus is on you doing well, not the other party doing less well than you."

The SDC is big and shady, I'll take that at face value but what it reads to me is that they have bigger resources and better capability of utilizing that resources, if you put the ethics and morality asides. At the most basic level, businesses exist to make more money for themselves and in that regards, corporate responsibilities and ethics are just things that the government and public demands out of them and they don't have much choice to follow if they want to make money.

The SDC is big and shady, but they're making money. They are doing things right in regards to their function as profit-making entities that is the core function of a business. The onus is then on Flynt's dad to adapt to their policies and strategies with his own. The SDC's shady strategies might be the one that did him in, but is the one that is making his own strategies and policies. That SDC did better and won in the end isn't their fault, though I will also say that that doesn't make it Flynt's dad's fault either. What I dispute is blaming the other party for doing better and winning. Disputing their underhandedness, immorality, and lack of ethics, that's fine. Whining about losing? No.

Basically, I believe in this:



Which should probably explain my stance on Faunus-Menagerie as well.

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Yeah so this is basically the ant argument again "You didn't magically grow big enough to avoid being stomped on by me so its not my fault I decided to crush you." That's how I'm reading it anyway, apologies if that seems contrary or inaccurate.

 

[mistakenot]

How exactly is a presumably small family owned store meant to keep up with a multi-national monolithic organisation that has been noted for being shady?

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None of those things seem like stuff that a big business couldn't also do just better due to having more money and surplus, and as has been noted the SDC aren't just big they are also shady and have "partners" and practises which are "questionable".

I'm not saying its impossible for a small business to succeed despite the existence of a bigger competitor, my issue is with the narrative of "Its all the small business fault if they fail" even if their competitor has a dozen more advantages and is pretty much said to be corrupt by its own heiress. It feels like saying "Well if the ant didn't want to be crushed it should have been bigger."

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Yeah so this is basically the ant argument again "You didn't magically grow big enough to avoid being stomped on by me so its not my fault I decided to crush you." That's how I'm reading it anyway, apologies if that seems contrary or inaccurate.

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I feel I ought to point out that companies are not owed profits, whether they're a scrappy "small family owned store" or a large corporation.

That's not to say there aren't valid concerns about large retailers monopolizing regional markets, or the livelihoods of people who worked for those smaller stores. But fair competition does not guarantee "fair" results: even the most ethical company may still drive less efficient competitors out of business. Asking who's at "fault" is not a very useful way of looking at things: it just is.

(Critics might also point out that those beloved smaller stores often had higher prices and smaller selections than larger retailers, with corresponding negative impact on consumer surplus.)

Similar to e.g. the decline in manufacturing jobs, we should be cautious about romanticizing the past and artificially propping up failing businesses. If we do decide we still want to support them, we should at least do so with open eyes.



On the SDC in particular, there's been a lot of implication and accusations thrown about, but no specific details or hard evidence. I do expect we'll learn more about the SDC's "shady" dealings sooner or later, given that the narrative direction paints an unflattering picture, but until the picture is incomplete.

 

[Sinsystems]

On the subject of the small business being destroyed by the Schnee company we should consider what angle we are looking at when we think about it. While yes it being a small Dust shop that was driven out of business is a possibility another one is the idea of a new product/patent being created by the smaller shop, it gaining popularity with the Schnee company seeing the potential profits wanting to purchase the rights but being denied then resorting to a "If we can't have it then no one can" sort of thing and using their resources to discredit the product to the point that the business went under and the inventor was now a joke among his peers.

It has happened before in real life.

 

[Feng Lengshun]

We barely 'see' any Faunus though, Blake is passing, Velvet and Sun mostly hang around the main cast though the former was actively tormented in public and no one was penalised and that's about it.

Edit: We do see some in the background, though not many, but not actively being beaten in the streets doesn't negate the existence of prejudice.

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The problem is we didn't see.

Yeah so this is basically the ant argument again "You didn't magically grow big enough to avoid being stomped on by me so its not my fault I decided to crush you." That's how I'm reading it anyway, apologies if that seems contrary or inaccurate.

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I think that's a rather negative way of seeing it, and inaccurate too. I really don't like using metaphors when talking about complex concepts and ideas, but borrowing your metaphor, it would be that the ant could have chosen another place to live in, moved out of the way, or countless other things they could have done to avoid being stomped (assuming that ants are capable of such complex thoughts, of course). That the ant got stomped isn't the fault of the foot, but I also don't blame the ant for being weak or making a choice that lead to it being stomped. Though I would prefer a comparison to a leg amputee challenging an athlete with two healthy legs to a race, losing, then blaming the athlete for having two legs instead of simply accept their loss and improve themselves.

It just a thing that happened, that's just how things are and blaming the winner, I find, to be a very unconstructive and unsporting way of thinking, which is my problem with Flynt. Feeling frustrated and angry is not inhumane and I don't think it's wrong to feel frustrated at SDC's overwhelming advantage. But Flynt's conduct is just... childish and lacking in grace.

And in any case, going back to the original point of how Flynt's dad's smaller business can stand up against the SDC... well, we don't know the exact circumstances so I can't just give a way for him to have succeeded. That said, the general answer is "Work harder and smarter, innovate, promote, and differentiate." There is no one true way to success, but all businesses generally started small. Failures happen, it sucks, but blaming the victor is never the correct way of dealing with it, no matter how much the other guy is an asshole.

 

[Zam]

On the SDC in particular, there's been a lot of implication and accusations thrown about, but no specific details or hard evidence. I do expect we'll learn more about the SDC's "shady" dealings sooner or later, given that the narrative direction paints an unflattering picture, but until the picture is incomplete.

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Given Weiss herself has outright talked about the issues and the damage her father has done to her families name, plus the implication the SDC were involved in the pillaging of Vacuo, I would say its been fairly clearly communicated even without the WF or Flynt, save showing a scene where Papa Schnee actively signs off on something evil or orders a competing storefront torched.

I feel I ought to point out that companies are not owed profits, whether they're a scrappy "small family owned store" or a large corporation.

That's not to say there aren't valid concerns about large retailers monopolizing regional markets, or the livelihoods of people who worked for those smaller stores. But fair competition does not guarantee "fair" results: even the most ethical company may still drive less efficient competitors out of business. Asking who's at "fault" is not a very useful way of looking at things: it just is.

(Critics might also point out that those beloved smaller stores often had higher prices and smaller selections than larger retailers, with corresponding negative impact on consumer surplus.)

Similar to e.g. the decline in manufacturing jobs, we should be cautious about romanticizing the past and artificially propping up failing businesses. If we do decide we still want to support them, we should at least do so with open eyes.

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No one is suggesting a business is owed money simply by virtue of existence, however the monopolisation of business, especially one as shady as the SDC is bad for everyone save the SDC; its not about propping up things in favour of nostalgia, I loathe the concept, but implicitly just letting big corporations too large to fail easily and that utilise shady tactics to roll over other businesses or people, big or small, is inherently bad as far as I'm concerned.

The problem is we didn't see.

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If there's barely any Faunus to see or interact with I'd feel that's a reason to not see the discrimination. Again not saying it couldn't have been done better, but I am heavily against trying to prop up a narrative of the Faunus as just dicks.

I think that's a rather negative way of seeing it, and inaccurate too. I really don't like using metaphors when talking about complex concepts and ideas, but borrowing your metaphor, it would be that the ant could have chosen another place to live in, moved out of the way, or countless other things they could have done to avoid being stomped (assuming that ants are capable of such complex thoughts, of course). That the ant got stomped isn't the fault of the foot, but I also don't blame the ant for being weak or making a choice that lead to it being stomped. Though I would prefer a comparison to a leg amputee challenging an athlete with two healthy legs to a race, losing, then blaming the athlete for having two legs instead of simply accept their loss and improve themselves.

It just a thing that happened, that's just how things are and blaming the winner, I find, to be a very unconstructive and unsporting way of thinking, which is my problem with Flynt. Feeling frustrated and angry is not inhumane and I don't think it's wrong to feel frustrated at SDC's overwhelming advantage. But Flynt's conduct is just... childish and lacking in grace.

And in any case, going back to the original point of how Flynt's dad's smaller business can stand up against the SDC... well, we don't know the exact circumstances so I can't just give a way for him to have succeeded. That said, the general answer is "Work harder and smarter, innovate, promote, and differentiate." There is no one true way to success, but all businesses generally started small. Failures happen, it sucks, but blaming the victor is never the correct way of dealing with it, no matter how much the other guy is an asshole.

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So to counter your first point, moving is not that simple, it takes time, money, effort, access to another location and a means of survival and a consistent income with which to support one's self; so saying "You could just move out of the way of my (For example) massive wrecking ball so I can build my new shop" is an inherently flawed argument because people do not necessarily have the means to do so and may actually be rather attached to their homes. If the foot actively decided "Hey screw this ant" then it is their fault.

So if I found out some info about you that you didn't want shared and used it to extort you into giving up this debate you'd be, maybe a bit frustrated but fine with it? Because this is a discussion, the goal is to "win" after all, just like a business is to make money. I;m not actually threatening anything, but this seemed an apt example.

Edit 1: On Flynt's reaction as well, I feel you're being rather unfair, he brought up that his families store was driven out of business by Weiss's dad and glowered, and snarked a bit about Weiss's money not being enough to buy her skill, that was it, and FNKY 'were' trying to get under their opponents skin anyway. I mean its not like he swore to kill Weiss or destroy her life because of it or anything.

I am heavily against this kind of narrative because I feel it either does not acknowledge or dismisses the differences between two competing groups and is basically just a self justification for stomping on people weaker than one's self.

It feels a lot like Raven's ideals, namely survival of the fittest, but that doesn't make it OK for her to slaughter people just because she can. The thing about this kind of ideology is that its utilised more often than not to justify the powerful holding power and using against those weaker, and the moment someone stronger turns up, it falls apart, because as it turns out people don;t like it when "they" are the one's losing.

Edit 2: On the "leg amputee" argument I feel its worth noting that Flynt's dad presumably didn't challenge the SDC they just moved in, there'd be no logical reason for the Coal family to try and open a small store "near" an already functioning SDC store, so the comparison feels inaccurate and reductive.

Edit 3: The original Full Metal Alchemist actually had a great scene on this because the fundamental rule of alchemy was "You get out what you put in" but the villain points out that "There were people who had studied for decades longer than you but never got the job or the skills you did because of a lack of natural talent or resources or good teachers ETC, equivalent exchange is a lie." That is to say just saying "You'd succeed if you tried harder and thought more creatively" is unfair and inaccurate and puts all the responsibility on the person suffering for being in that situation.

 

[firefossil]

Artist comments in the source.

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Steampunk Ruby makes a lot of sense, but it would go against the Little Red Riding Hood thematics, which is why they didn't do something like that in canon.

 

[Hykal94]

Steampunk Ruby makes a lot of sense, but it would go against the Little Red Riding Hood thematics, which is why they didn't do something like that in canon.

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Since when has the fairy tale allusions ever make sense?

 

[blast flame]

Steampunk Ruby makes a lot of sense, but it would go against the Little Red Riding Hood thematics, which is why they didn't do something like that in canon.

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Because making Cinderella a terrorist totally goes along with the fairy tale thematic.

I mean Ruby as we know her is fine because I like Goths too but Steampunk ruby would have been totally valid.

 

[Sunder the Gold]

Where did Mister Cole even get his Dust?

The Schnee Dust Company doesn't just refine and sell Dust. They mine it. They're their own supplier for the raw materials they need to make and sell a finished product.

The SDC could have put Flynt's dad out of business without out-competing him as a vendor of finished products. They could have stopped selling him raw Dust themselves, or else they could have out-competed the rival mining company that sold him raw Dust, and then bought it out when it died.


I think I also missed the discussion about how some people aren't appropriately dressed for Menagerie's tropical heat. I agree with the sentiment, but would also point out that Sun Wukong isn't appropriately dressed for the desert, either.

There's a reason that desert nomads wear full-body covering layers of extremely thin and "porous" material. Even the duskiest complex burns under the sun, and without trees to break airflow, desert winds are harsh even when they're not pelting you with sand.


Still on clothes, that costume redesign is adorable and is very much how I now see Ruby dressing in her first year of combat school, as well as during her middle school days in shop class and on the rifle team.

 

[Mook]

Where did Mister Cole even get his Dust?

The Schnee Dust Company doesn't just refine and sell Dust. They mine it. They're their own supplier for the raw materials they need to make and sell a finished product.

The SDC could have put Flynt's dad out of business without out-competing him as a vendor of finished products. They could have stopped selling him raw Dust themselves, or else they could have out-competed the rival mining company that sold him raw Dust, and then bought it out when it died.


I think I also missed the discussion about how some people aren't appropriately dressed for Menagerie's tropical heat. I agree with the sentiment, but would also point out that Sun Wukong isn't appropriately dressed for the desert, either.

There's a reason that desert nomads wear full-body covering layers of extremely thin and "porous" material. Even the duskiest complex burns under the sun, and without trees to break airflow, desert winds are harsh even when they're not pelting you with sand.


Still on clothes, that costume redesign is adorable and is very much how I now see Ruby dressing in her first year of combat school, as well as during her middle school days in shop class and on the rifle team.

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Should be pointed out that the people not dressed properly probably all have Aura which probably makes it easy to deal with hot air considering how they can be dunked in lava or covered in ice without serious or even any injury.

 

[thesevenwielder]

Despite my reservations with this episode, one thing I do love about it is how the show is going out of its way to give the finger to Bumblebee. This episode is tailor-made for BlackSun shippers, what with the whole cliche "awkward meeting with the parents" thing, with Kali remarking that she approves of Sun, and Blake more flustered at it being said out loud rather than denying that they're together. I'm ambivalent towards BlackSun, but I really don't like Bumblebee, so anything that helps sink that ship is good in my mind.

 

[Sucal]

Despite my reservations with this episode, one thing I do love about it is how the show is going out of its way to give the finger to Bumblebee. This episode is tailor-made for BlackSun shippers, what with the whole cliche "awkward meeting with the parents" thing, with Kali remarking that she approves of Sun, and Blake more flustered at it being said out loud rather than denying that they're together. I'm ambivalent towards BlackSun, but I really don't like Bumblebee, so anything that helps sink that ship is good in my mind.

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I don't mind the ship, I just dislike most of the shippers, since white rose and bumblebee seemingly collected most of the nuts in the fanbase

 

[Sunder the Gold]

I don't mind the ship, I just dislike most of the shippers, since white rose and bumblebee seemingly collected most of the nuts in the fanbase

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Every ship has terrible shippers.

Some Black Sun shippers are being just as vexing towards the Bumbleby shippers as some of the Bumbleby shippers were to the Black Sun shippers and Sun Wukong fans. Let's not forget the hate Sun got the moment he debuted and winked at Blake.

Part of why the Seamonkeys pairing annoys me so much is that it feels like people trying to make sure that Bumbleby (or Monochrome/Checkmate) happens. Certainly, the Seamonkeys shippers are the ones who are clearly reinterpreting the characters to fit their ship.

 

[Zam]

Let's not forget the hate Sun got the moment he debuted and winked at Blake.

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I really wish critique against the actual writing or handling of scenes, characters and story wouldn't just be dismissed entirely on the assumption "Its just a shipper".

Part of why the Seamonkeys pairing annoys me so much is that it feels like people trying to make sure that Bumbleby (or Monochrome/Checkmate) happens. Certainly, the Seamonkeys shippers are the ones who are clearly reinterpreting the characters to fit their ship.

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You do know that you're basically just ascribing motives to someone else without knowing their motives to make them look bad and de-value their personal feelings and views right? Seriously, try actually looking at some of the Sea Monkey's stuff, some of the most prolific are huge Sun and Neptune fans with a lot invested in those characters and relationship.

 

[Sunder the Gold]

You do know that you're basically just ascribing motives to someone else without knowing their motives

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That's why my precise words were "it feels like", and my opinion was "this ship annoys me" rather than anything like "it is objectively bad and the people who like are objectively bad."

to make them look bad

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And now you are the one ascribing motives to ME, because that's not my motive at all.

Where's your high ground? You burn the bridge you claim to stand upon.

 

[Zam]

And now you are the one ascribing motives to ME, because that's not my motive at all.

Where's your high ground? You burn the bridge you claim to stand upon.

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Fair enough, I apologise, I shouldn't have implicitly ascribed motive to you.

That's why my precise words were "it feels like", and my opinion was "this ship annoys me" rather than anything like "it is objectively bad and the people who like are objectively bad."

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However stuff like what you were doing still feels like a really underhanded de-valuing attack on people for having different views than you and this isn't the first time we've had a discussion along these lines.

Edit: Plus other parts of your post 'were' stated as facts.

 

[thesevenwielder]

Ya know, Blake, maybe if your family funneled some of their money back into the community instead of blowing it all on building a giant palace and living the high life, maybe, just maybe the situation in Menagerie could be improved. Hey, maybe you could even, y'know, hire a bunch of people to build a local CCT, or at least change things so that the rest of the faunus can live in nicer houses, and maybe have nobody living in tents. You know, just a suggestion, because of how concerned you are over the "plight of the faunus." Perhaps you could start looking inward to see if you can change your life instead of automatically assuming everything is someone else's fault? Like, I get it, faunus were shit on in the past, and Menagerie was a kind of lame consolation prize, but you live in a goddamned palace. It could be that not everything is the fault of prejudiced humans. Just putting that out there.

 

[Zam]

Ya know, Blake, maybe if your family funneled some of their money back into the community instead of blowing it all on building a giant palace and living the high life, maybe, just maybe the situation in Menagerie could be improved. Hey, maybe you could even, y'know, hire a bunch of people to build a local CCT, or at least change things so that the rest of the faunus can live in nicer houses, and maybe have nobody living in tents. You know, just a suggestion, because of how concerned you are over the "plight of the faunus." Perhaps you could start looking inward to see if you can change your life instead of automatically assuming everything is someone else's fault? Like, I get it, faunus were shit on in the past, and Menagerie was a kind of lame consolation prize, but you live in a goddamned palace. It could be that not everything is the fault of prejudiced humans. Just putting that out there.

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You do realise its:
1, Just a reasonably big house with no servants or seemingly any other modern amenities.
2 Probably not built by Blake's parents given the town would have been formed probably not long after the Great War which was 80 years ago.
3 We have no evidence the Belladonna's are rich save her father holding a "potentially" elected position and a nicely sized house while the CCTs are gargantuan towers of steel and wiring and Dust that likely required hugely dedicated work forces of skilled engineers to build which would likely A, cost a lot of money and B be really hard to hire given the distance, travel, issues of prejudice and education.

Edit: Also "in the past" implies its not happening currently and could also imply that ti happened a long time ago, which given the Faunus Rights Revolution happened less than 80 years ago, stores are still allowed to deny Faunus service CDRL can get away with their treatment of Velvet in public, Cardin can get away with calling all Faunus animals in the middle of class, and the SDC, plus other companies, are implied and more or less stated to use unfair Faunus labour (Weiss agrees the SDC has gone down a bad path).

All of that, to me, gives a pretty big indication that there is no "in the past" about it and that's without reflecting upon the generational implications that attempted genocide and enslavement will have in a society and culture.

Edit 2: plus Menagerie was a "gift" they implicitly had no choice in accepting, otherwise there wouldn't have been a war over it, so deriding it as "lame" as opposed to an attempted deportation to a location that could not handle all of the Faunus many of whom did not want to leave regardless really feels like de-valuing the issue and making it sound far pattier than it was.

 

[thesevenwielder]

Yeah, until we see otherwise, I'm gonna assume Qrow is full of shit on that one. There's fucking bullying everywhere. The goddamned color of your skin doesn't matter. Whether you have a tail or a second set of ears doesn't matter. Assholes are going to be assholes. Even before Cardin found out about Jaune cheating his way into Beacon, he was still an asshole and a fucking bully to Jaune.

Why the fuck didn't we see one of the shopkeeps denying Velvet service or something when they met her while she was taking pictures. Boom, there we've got our in-universe proof that faunus discrimination is actually happening. Right now I wouldn't be surprised whatsoever if the writers eventually pulled a twist and said "yeah, the White Fang are totally exaggerating things, and discrimination is closer to modern-day discrimination against black people than 1960's" or whatever the fuck WoG compared it to.

As for the giant-ass house not having any maids or whatever, guess what? We saw the fucking Schnee mansion, supposedly built off the backs of slave faunus labor, and what do we find? No fucking maids. Just a giant-ass empty house. Like, we see a single butler, and that's it. Hell, judging from Klein's interactions with Weiss he's clearly more of a confidant than a butler.

 

[Zam]

Yeah, until we see otherwise, I'm gonna assume Qrow is full of shit on that one. There's fucking bullying everywhere. The goddamned color of your skin doesn't matter. Whether you have a tail or a second set of ears doesn't matter. Assholes are going to be assholes. Even before Cardin found out about Jaune cheating his way into Beacon, he was still an asshole and a fucking bully to Jaune.

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So you're going to actively ignore the World of Remnant, a video built around world building? Well that makes any discussion a waste of time then doesn't it.

Though just to continue, no, Cardin specifically bullied Jaune because he was weak, CDRL bullied Velvet because she was a Faunus, the motives actually do matter, as do the methods.

Why the fuck didn't we see one of the shopkeeps denying Velvet service or something when they met her while she was taking pictures. Boom, there we've got our in-universe proof that faunus discrimination is actually happening. Right now I wouldn't be surprised whatsoever if the writers eventually pulled a twist and said "yeah, the White Fang are totally exaggerating things, and discrimination is closer to modern-day discrimination against black people than 1960's" or whatever the fuck WoG compared it to.

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She was taking pictures on Beacon grounds and not anywhere near any shops, that's why.

You're the one who came up with the "White Fang are totally exaggerating things" as a fic concept awhile back and they literally just had a World of Remnant on the Faunus and the generations of discrimination they faced. Also... Yeah you know what I'm not even going to touch your

and discrimination is closer to modern-day discrimination against black people than 1960's"

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thing.

As for the giant-ass house not having any maids or whatever, guess what? We saw the fucking Schnee mansion, supposedly built off the backs of slave faunus labor, and what do we find? No fucking maids. Just a giant-ass empty house. Like, we see a single butler, and that's it. Hell, judging from Klein's interactions with Weiss he's clearly more of a confidant than a butler.

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Where was it said the manor was built of Faunus labour? Also we actually do see 'A' Butler as you noted and the Schnee household is absolutely massive over the Belladonna's (seemingly political residence) which implies there could be more and even if there aren't they're still hiring staff for them, while the Belladonna's don't get waited on hand and foot.

 

[Leingod]

You do realise its:
1, Just a reasonably big house with no servants or seemingly any other modern amenities.
2 Probably not built by Blake's parents given the town would have been formed probably not long after the Great War which was 80 years ago.
3 We have no evidence the Belladonna's are rich save her father holding a "potentially" elected position and a nicely sized house while the CCTs are gargantuan towers of steel and wiring and Dust that likely required hugely dedicated work forces of skilled engineers to build which would likely A, cost a lot of money and B be really hard to hire given the distance, travel, issues of prejudice and education.

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I am legitimately scratching my head at how exaggerated people are making this. I mean, the house is big and impressive, yes, but people are using words like "palace" to describe it, which just... what?



That's not a palace. It's a small mansion, at best. Especially with the points you mentioned above: the furniture and cutlery and such, while well-crafted, are all plain and utilitarian. The house is made of wood and stone; nice-looking wood and stone, sure, but we're not dealing with marble columns and golden doors. There's no servants going around cleaning up or pouring the tea for them. Hell, the table (which looks like it's for all guests they receive, including important ones) is just a plain wooden table. It's not even super big or anything.

Even assuming this isn't some White House-type deal and Ghira's only living there due to his position as the Chief (and since Blake seems uncomfortable with the house that might not be a far-fetched idea), the Belladonna's don't strike me as filthy rich. Well-off, sure, but they're not making Remnant's version of the Forbes 500 anytime soon.

 

[Zam]

I am legitimately scratching my head at how exaggerated people are making this. I mean, the house is big and impressive, yes, but people are using words like "palace" to describe it, which just... what?



That's not a palace. It's a small mansion, at best. Especially with the points you mentioned above: the furniture and cutlery and such, while well-crafted, are all plain and utilitarian. The house is made of wood and stone; nice-looking wood and stone, sure, but we're not dealing with marble columns and golden doors. There's no servants going around cleaning up or pouring the tea for them. Hell, the table (which looks like it's for all guests they receive, including important ones) is just a plain wooden table. It's not even super big or anything.

Even assuming this isn't some White House-type deal and Ghira's only living there due to his position as the Chief (and since Blake seems uncomfortable with the house that might not be a far-fetched idea), the Belladonna's don't strike me as filthy rich. Well-off, sure, but they're not making Remnant's version of the Forbes 500 anytime soon.

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100% agreed with you there and thanks for the visual and points they were well made and they really help demonstrate the actual size and ornateness of the house, which is to say, not a huge amount. Like you said, its nice & well made, but it really does just seem like a big house with a wall and yeah, it could easily be a White House sort of deal. Plus even if it is their house, Blake spent most of her childhood in protests and then as a child soldier under a budding mass murder and abuser all in the service of trying to make the world a less shitty place, so hating on her for it seems unfair.

 

[thesevenwielder]

Oh, I'm not hating on her. Just pointing out the hypocrisy. Summary of v1e15 incoming:

Weiss: "That monkey faunus was up to no good! A criminal like the rest of the White Fang"
Blake: "Why are you saying he's automatically a criminal?"
Weiss: "Because he literally stowed away on a ship, stole some food, and ran from the police!"
Blake: "You're just saying that because you're racist. And the White Fang just want peace!"
Weiss: "Dude, the White Fang say they want peace but they're waging a war on my family!"
Blake: "They're just misunderstood and you shouldn't be racist!"
Weiss: "Bitch they are literally murdering my family right now. They clearly don't care for peace."
Blake: "Well... you... shut up! Imma faunus so you have to take my side!"

To be fair, she's been spoonfed White Fang propaganda all her life, and growing up in a cult (Sun's words, not mine) has a tendency to influence you into believing the cult's rhetoric. Luckily she was able to escape the worst parts of the cult before everything went completely to hell, but she clearly has some of those cult teachings ingrained in her mind. It's not totally her fault, she just needs to see how the world really works. Knowledge is the key to escaping that sort of toxicity. I sure she isn't stuck on Menagerie so that toxic worldview doesn't get reinforced.

On the "Disregarding WoG" thing, hell yeah I'm gonna dismiss some of it. Both narrators so far, Salem and Ozpin, were clearly biased. And to trust everything Qrow says? Frankly, if Qrow said the sky was blue, I'd have to check myself to make sure. I trust he's nominally working for the side of good, but he's clearly in Ozpin's pocket; if Oz says "jump" Qrow will ask "how high?" And we all know how the whole "greater good" thing works out more often than not.

Come on, Ozpin's alive. You know it, I know it, don't try to feed me any bullshit like he's dead or anything. Reincarnation bullshit, Force Aura ghost, I don't care what it is, but he clearly ain't dead, and Salem knows it. He doesn't die when he's killed.

 

[Zam]

Weiss: "That monkey faunus was up to no good! A criminal like the rest of the White Fang"
Blake: "Why are you saying he's automatically a criminal?"
Weiss: "Because he literally stowed away on a ship, stole some food, and ran from the police!"
Blake: "You're just saying that because you're racist. And the White Fang just want peace!"
Weiss: "Dude, the White Fang say they want peace but they're waging a war on my family!"
Blake: "They're just misunderstood and you shouldn't be racist!"
Weiss: "Bitch they are literally murdering my family right now. They clearly don't care for peace."
Blake: "Well... you... shut up! Imma faunus so you have to take my side!"

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That is a really mis-representative version of their discussion, and really re frames Weiss's language choices to be far less belligerent than they were, same for her actual argument (Along with putting in statements that don't even have a potential comparison), while also making Blake look as stupid and bad as possible. If you're going to try and do the "" thing, maybe use the real dialogue.

To be fair, she's been spoonfed White Fang propaganda all her life, and growing up in a cult (Sun's words, not mine) has a tendency to influence you into believing the cult's rhetoric. Luckily she was able to escape the worst parts of the cult before everything went completely to hell, but she clearly has some of those cult teachings ingrained in her mind. It's not totally her fault, she just needs to see how the world really works. Knowledge is the key to escaping that sort of toxicity. I sure she isn't stuck on Menagerie so that toxic worldview doesn't get reinforced.

On the "Disregarding WoG" thing, hell yeah I'm gonna dismiss some of it. Both narrators so far, Salem and Ozpin, were clearly biased. And to trust everything Qrow says? Frankly, if Qrow said the sky was blue, I'd have to check myself to make sure. I trust he's nominally working for the side of good, but he's clearly in Ozpin's pocket; if Oz says "jump" Qrow will ask "how high?" And we all know how the whole "greater good" thing works out more often than not.

Click to shrink...

Plus, "Spoon fed propaganda"? She was literally in protests, the White Fang recruit from regular citizens, humans within the cast actively acknowledge the shitty experiences that face the Faunus (When they see it, which given Blake is passing is not often) and no one has ever called Blake out as "inaccurate" on her info save in regards to the White Fang; by that I mean no one has ever said "no one denies Faunus service and here's proof!" or "The SDC is a perfectly legitimate company with nothing shady going on and here's why!" Weiss could only sputter angrily the first time it came up and she openly admits in V2 that part of the reason she left Atlas was that her father and what he's done with the company is bad.

... You do know that if Qrow was biased towards anyone in that video it would be humans with his whole "Can't really blame them for trying to kill faunus" thing. Also while there is obvious personal bias "I consider it poetic, the people of Remnant (Menagerie not included) speak with one voice, or not at all." but the actual 'facts' they deliver are still, you know, factual "the CCT works X way, Grimm die if kept prisoner too long and ignore animals ETC."
Edit: On reflection he seems more even handed over all outside of that, some of his comments weren't exactly pleasant, but he did express understanding for the presence of anger that is felt in most Faunus culture.

Seriously dude, if you wanna say that the discrimination has not been shown nearly as well as it could have been that's one thing, its another to pretend its not there and to refuse to actually engage with the media your complaining about or the people offering counters which I also note you've been doing. You say a thing, someone counters, then you go on and say a different thing without countering or addressing much of anything. No idea if that counts as debating in bad faith or not but it certainly doesn't feel productive or respectful.