RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

[kokuenDG]

so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.

 

[Zam]

Who asked you to?

Darmani was surprised that I was critical of the Dead Fantasy videos, and I maintained it was natural. Do you think I'm demanding that you not criticize Rooster Teeth?

If I demand anything, it's that you recognize what their INTENT was. I'm not asking you to refrain from complaining about the EXECUTION.

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I don't know what their intent was though, especially seeing as they did have Blake get scared and creeped out and Sun ran away when confronted.

And to me that still feels like telling me to like a character as it feels like saying "the intent was for Sun to be likeable so you can't say you didn't like what he did, only complain that the writers didn't do it better." Maybe I'm mis-reading but that's how it feels.

 

[Sunder the Gold]

Menagerie's buildings should have been built like large apartment complexes if they wanted to sell us on "cramped". This looks too much like a relaxed island resort and not enough like a densely-packed slum or refugee town. I don't think we saw any building with a second floor.


Furry Mormons:

Spoiler

Also I actually kinda hoped that the creeper fox twins were honest and Adam's faction didn't represent the will of the WF.

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They were too oily for that. Too polite and unaffected. Especially when expressing "grief" about the tragedy at Vale.

I'm not inclined to trust people like that, especially when they try to shift the blame onto someone else without admitting to any kind of responsibility for letting it happen.

Adam Taurus was apparently so extreme that they can saw "you know how he is", yet he was still put in charge of operations outside of the central leader's sight, and then these guys claim that nothing could have been done without real evidence?

They simultaneously say that it was only natural what happened and yet claim that they couldn't have seen it coming.

 

[Regency]

I don't know what their intent was though, especially seeing as they did have Blake get scared and creeped out and Sun ran away when confronted.

And to me that still feels like telling me to like a character as it feels like saying "the intent was for Sun to be likeable so you can't say you didn't like what he did, only complain that the writers didn't do it better." Maybe I'm mis-reading but that's how it feels.

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What if, if mind you, we dunno until Sun spits it out because it feels like (I haven't watched the recent ep until it's out for non-FIRSTies burgeoisies ) he tracked where Blake's running away to only by clues and hearsay until he spots her boarding a ship and decides to meet her there.

Mind you, this supposition is a just theorizing at this point.

 

[Zam]

What if, if mind you, we dunno until Sun spits it out because it feels like (I haven't watched the recent ep until it's out for non-FIRSTies burgeoisies ) he tracked where Blake's running away to only by clues and hearsay until he spots her boarding a ship and decides to meet her there.

Mind you, this supposition is a just theorizing at this point.

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That could have been the case though if so I do not feel it was well conveyed, and even then he was hanging around on the boat in a mysterious cloak following Blake for long enough for them to be deep into the ocean and ran off when confronted about it despite having had plenty of time to reveal himself.

 

[Sunder the Gold]

I don't know what their intent was though

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But you honestly think that they meant for Sun to be someone that Blake should be scared of?

especially seeing as they did have Blake get scared and creeped out and Sun ran away when confronted.

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Blake's reaction was natural. Sun's actions were not; they were Out Of Character for the sake of something other than characterization.

Again, this is like how Yang's reaction to Ruby's news is natural, even if the circumstances were not.

We've seen Sun. There's no way that he'd hide under a cloak instead of meeting Blake face-to-face.

...Unless he just REALLY wanted to have a big heroic surprise moment when she starting fighting the White Fang and he appeared out of nowhere to help. In which case, it was something thoughtlessly stupid, but not creepy.

 

[Zam]

But you honestly think that they meant for Sun to be someone that Blake should be scared of?

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I don't know, all I know is how the scene looked and felt to me which is what I base my reactions off.

Blake's reaction was natural. Sun's actions were not; they were Out Of Character for the sake of something other than characterization.

Again, this is like how Yang's reaction to Ruby's news is natural, even if the circumstances were not.

We've seen Sun. There's no way that he'd hide under a cloak instead of meeting Blake face-to-face.

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Again, you're basically telling me how I am allowed to interpret a scene so as to not dislike a character you like based on your personal take on his character & what you feel he would do.

...Unless he just REALLY wanted to have a big heroic surprise moment when she starting fighting the White Fang and he appeared out of nowhere to help. In which case, it was something thoughtlessly stupid, but not creepy.

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Blake was creeped out, but I agree that it would be thoughtless and stupid, again I am not obligated to read the scene or character as you do. If you don't like me finding him following Blake for 6/8 months without her knowledge or consent, running off when confronted & then jumping on her head & flirting for a fight where people's lives were in danger, fine, but I am forced to tell you that saying he wasn't meant to come across badly is not going to change my opinions on his behaviour.

 

[thesevenwielder]

My reaction to this episode

Spoiler

Come on, Roosterteeth, are you trying to make Blake as unsympathetic as possible? First she says that everyone is forced to be on Menagerie even though she the other White Fang and plenty of other faunus clearly aren't. And now she's royalty? Like what? I guess this explains how she grew up in the White Fang, but this doesn't make me sympathetic towards her at all. How bad are the Schnee business practices, really? Are they really that bad? She has no way to know, and I bet its just propaganda by the White Fang (that her family indoctrinated her in to). I bet the Schnee really aren't that bad.

Also, major breach in trust with Yang. Yang was willing to tell Blake her darkest secrets and open up to her, and Blake clearly didn't reciprocate or care at all, given she has never said anything about having a family. What an awful teammate. Sympathy points were already low; now they're at zero.

And retcons galore. We never hear anything about other branches of the White Fang until just now. Blake referred to the Fang as them all growing violent. and what the heck is this nonsense about knowing Adam was different but not giving him any sort of supervision? It seems very moronic. Looks like all the White Fang are filled with doublethink. It extends to Blake too.

I used to not like Sun, and saw him as creepy when he first showed up this volume, but the more screentime he gets I see he is the only sane man, and am growing to like him, even if he is a terrible teammate and leader.

 

[Monochrome_Tide]

My reaction to this episode

Spoiler

Come on, Roosterteeth, are you trying to make Blake as unsympathetic as possible? First she says that everyone is forced to be on Menagerie even though she the other White Fang and plenty of other faunus clearly aren't. And now she's royalty? Like what? I guess this explains how she grew up in the White Fang, but this doesn't make me sympathetic towards her at all. How bad are the Schnee business practices, really? Are they really that bad? She has no way to know, and I bet its just propaganda by the White Fang (that her family indoctrinated her in to). I bet the Schnee really aren't that bad.

Also, major breach in trust with Yang. Yang was willing to tell Blake her darkest secrets and open up to her, and Blake clearly didn't reciprocate or care at all, given she has never said anything about having a family. What an awful teammate. Sympathy points were already low; now they're at zero.

And retcons galore. We never hear anything about other branches of the White Fang until just now. Blake referred to the Fang as them all growing violent. and what the heck is this nonsense about knowing Adam was different but not giving him any sort of supervision? It seems very moronic. Looks like all the White Fang are filled with doublethink. It extends to Blake too.

I used to not like Sun, and saw him as creepy when he first showed up this volume, but the more screentime he gets I see he is the only sane man, and am growing to like him, even if he is a terrible teammate and leader.

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Spoiler

You really do not understand how systemic prejudice works, do you? The fact that the conditions on Menagerie are not a constant dystopian slum does not mean that the faunus there aren't perfectly aware of what the rest of the world thinks of them. If they prosper, it is in spite of the rest of the world's hate, it does not mean that hate does not exist.

Look at Menagerie. It's a considerably lower standard of living and technology than the rest of the world, stuck in essentially one bay, with little or no natural resources to take advantage of to build an industrial society. This is a subsistence economy with a markedly lower level of tech, and we're told the deserts outside the town are harsh. Compare with the bustling mega-cities of Vale and Mistral and Atlas.

 

[blast flame]

Spoiler

Team RNJR: Zero Princesses!

In all seriousness though I don't think Blake is a princess like some people seem to imply. It seems very plausible to me that being the former leader of the White Fang could easily get you elected to a democratic post in Menagerie.

 

[thesevenwielder]

@Monochrome_Tide, you would have a point if we actually saw any systematic racism.

 

[Sunder the Gold]

@Monochrome_Tide, you would have a point if we actually saw any systematic racism.

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Forced deportation is pretty systemic.

Also, the faunus had to win the Faunus Rights Revolution -- another war after the Great War -- to bring the deportation to a halt.

It was a war in which they apparently conquered and kept Mistralian settlements on Anima, which helped the faunus from being completely cut off on their new island.

 

[thesevenwielder]

I mean now. Faunus aren't forces to live in Menagerie, we see no shops discriminating against racism, Atlas has a teams with faunus on them, no snide remarks about animals outside Cardin and Roman, a petty bully and a career criminal who both in no way represent the majority. Sun says the White Fang are full of shit.

 

[Tython82]

Forced deportation is pretty systemic.

Also, the faunus had to win the Faunus Rights Revolution -- another war after the Great War -- to bring the deportation to a halt.

It was a war in which they apparently conquered and kept Mistralian settlements on Anima, which helped the faunus from being completely cut off on their new island.

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I think he is referring to a more Show Don't Tell angle since the majority of what you listed was backstory, and what we do see is very little and from a very small amount of characters. So to list off, we have Roman(Villain), Cardin and his team(Bullies) and of course we have Weiss but hers is more directed at the White Fang and she learns to deal with her feelings towards Faunus thanks to her interactions with Blake.

Ninja'd since I was trying to properly convey my point.

 

[Sunder the Gold]

Atlas didn't build a fifth CCT tower on Menagerie? They might not even have a booster tower. It doesn't seem like anyone on the island saw any footage of the White Fang's involvement in Beacon's fall, assuming that any existed.

The WoR on the CCT cuts Menagerie off of the map. It doesn't even appear, let alone any booster towers.

 

[Storyteller]

@Monochrome_Tide, you would have a point if we actually saw any systematic racism.

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Spoiler

Lack of CCT tower despite CCT tower being developed after the Great War which also led to the existence of Menagerie. Lack of representation period with the Vytale festival, and how say with Ozpin's narration of the CCT World of Remnant "no one voice can be silenced without the rest" despite Menagerie never having a voice. It's there in Menagerie absence in effect.

 

[robopanda]

Spoiler

"The Kingdom of Vale may not be perfect, but they didn't deserve that."
Please let this be evidence to support the theory that Vale was previously the leader of the empire that suppressed individuality! And also the confirmation that there was an empire that suppressed it!

 

[Sunder the Gold]

Spoiler

"The Kingdom of Vale may not be perfect, but they didn't deserve that."
Please let this be evidence to support the theory that Vale was previously the leader of the empire that suppressed individuality! And also the confirmation that there was an empire that suppressed it!

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I instead took this as evidence that Vale was only the second least-racist country in the world, after Vacuo, who was its ally in the Great War.

Her opinion of Atlas and Mistral might be worse.

Also interesting to note: In the WOR, the second CCT tower to go up as in Mistral, Mantle's old ally.

The Vacuo and Vale towers go up at about the same time, afterwards.

 

[Zam]

I mean now. Faunus aren't forces to live in Menagerie, we see no shops discriminating against racism, Atlas has a teams with faunus on them, no snide remarks about animals outside Cardin and Roman, a petty bully and a career criminal who both in no way represent the majority. Sun says the White Fang are full of shit.

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Sun is from Vacuo which is apparently an outlier, we barely ever interact with the regular everyday kingdoms or people, or Faunus who aren't in the process of passing, I agree it could be showed better but that doesn't mean the discrimination is absent given, again, the MC Faunus character spent the first three volumes pretending to be human. Plus we know via Blake stores do refuse Faunus service, Atlas having a singular Faunus on their team is, to me, meaningless because even actively hateful and discriminatory governments can have someone from amongst the groups they oppress in their cabinet if said person was, for example rich enough (I could provide a modern example but... RL Politics) and the fact CDRL get away with their shoddy treatment of Velvet in open public says a lot about the general view of Faunus.

 

[thesevenwielder]

Show don't tell.

 

[Monochrome_Tide]

Yeah - Pyrrha and Nora express disgust at the sight of bullying Velvet, but you know what they don't do? Stop it. Or even try to. Bystander syndrome.

 

[Storyteller]

Show don't tell.

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Out of curiosity what is your definition of show not tell?

The show does use Blake for less subtle exposition, but look for what isn't there and not just at what the scene is applying focus to.

1. Bullying in the middle of the cafeteria
   1. No one actually intervenes
   2. Cardin gets away with calling the Faunus animals in class with Oobleck only shaking his head when several of his classmates just raised their hands about facing discrimination for their heritage.
2. Lack of Representation at the Vytale Festival which and I quote: "celebration of the workd's cultures
3. Lack of consideration in World of Remnant segements.
   1. Isn't considered a Kingdom despite being apparently self sufficient, form of government and ability to protect itself. With the majority of the workd's Faunus population there so it cannot be by population.
   2. Following the above, Sun the Vacuo native sees the place as great (the forced relocation not withstanding) so Vacuo is both a Kingdom but with worse standards of living or so it appears at this time.
4. Again lack of a CCT tower as we are told there are four in Vale, Atlas, Vacuo and Mantle. Despite being founded as consequence of the Great War and the Atlas gifting the CCT to the world after said war.
5. The sharp leap of Faunus in Menagerie to the point of population appearing closer to a city than Kingdom despite lack of facilities. Like a CCT tower. When we see handfuls other than the WF everywhere else in the show up to this point.
6. Blake passing for human and stating she wouldn't need the ribbon anymore when she headed to Menagerie.

 

[LordPanther14]

Spoiler

Considering the reveal of the last pair of enemies in the OP and it looks like none of them are in spitting distance of Yang or Vale, looks like the only enemy she's facing this volume is herself with some sparring with good old dad unless they drop her into someone else's plotline, preferably Blake's considering their common enemy in Adam at the end of this volume but something needs to motivate her to meet up with someone still. Otherwise everything looks like its been set up for everyone's individual battles for survival. Maybe Adam going full edgelord, wants to finish the job with Yang and reveal's Blake's location thanks to his minions telling him? Hard to say considering the fact that OP's have lied before about fights and I'm not seeing anything blatant in the plot given to us yet. If she did beat Adam I think that would do a lot to helping her recover though.

Looking forward:

1. Weiss is going to have her concert that's probably going to be disrupted by the White Fang and more fully master her summoning
2. Ruby's got some serious bad with a future conflict with Raven (who she may or may not know is Yang's mom but her appearence when the mask is knocked off is sure to make her hesitate at a critical moment whether Ruby knows or not) and Tyrion
3. Blake going to another White Fang meeting where member's of Adam's faction are involved.
4. Possibly more Cinder stewing in Salem's tower
5. Oscar talking with the Man in the Mirror

 

[Sunder the Gold]

Sun the Vacuo native sees the place as great (the forced relocation not withstanding) so Vacuo is both a Kingdom but with worse standards of living or so it appears at this time.

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* Vacuo was trusted with one of the four CCT towers, and their protection of that tower was sufficiently threatening that Salem didn't have her minions destroy it before the operation in Vale. For that matter, she's STILL not going for it now, but instead aiming for Mistral's tower in Haven Academy.

* Vacuo managed to build 1/4th of the Amity Coliseum.

* Shade Academy is apparently located in the remains of Vacuo's old oasis capital. The oasis must have retained or recovered enough ability to support life, or else Vacuo would have built the academy somewhere more hospitable. Just look at how close the other hunting academies are to their capital cities... Shade Academy certainly couldn't afford to be further away from support than Beacon is from Vale!

* The fact that Vacuo apparently built their abortive attempt at an official government in the same location as Shade Academy also suggests that the oasis can still support life; why would government officials want to live anywhere but the most comfortable and beautiful location that tax-payers' money can buy?


I imagine that Vacuo City is Remnant's version of Dubai. Well, a land-locked Dubai, in the middle of a desert rather than a coastal shore location.

 

[Tython82]

* Vacuo was trusted with one of the four CCT towers, and their protection of that tower was sufficiently threatening that Salem didn't have her minions destroy it before the operation in Vale.

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I always thought that Salem went after the Vale tower because Ozpin was there and she wanted to show him that not even he could protect the tower.

 

[Sunder the Gold]

I always thought that Salem went after the Vale tower because Ozpin was there and she wanted to show him that not even he could protect the tower.

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A definite possibility, but one way or the other, the CCT network can be taken down, foiling global cooperation and fostering panic and frustration. Those are never bad things for her apparent goals.

And again, now that one tower is down and she's looking to make sure the network stays down, she's still not going for Shade Tower.