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RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • Zam said:
    Kinda confused why Jaune said he and Ren would take turns carrying the Huntsmen though, Nora is easily the physically strongest, was it a height thing?
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    I thought it was a matter of having their two best fighters in direct combat on guard in case they run into trouble.
     
    Leingod said:
    I think it's actually the first one. Jacques very clearly doesn't give a sh*t what anyone in his family thinks, he cares that they fall in line and play the part he's decided for them. It doesn't matter that only he and his favored child look remotely happy in that "happy family portrait," he just cares that they sat their asses down for the portrait so that he could hang up a family portrait because that's what you do.

    I mean, just look at how they're all posed, too. The way his three children are arranged, your eye is naturally drawn to Whitley in the center; Winter and Weiss are set up so that they're essentially just framing him. You could cut both of them out of the picture, change nothing else about it, and it would not look remotely out of place. And given how controlling Jacques is, and how deliberately you can tell he places everything in his mansion, it can't have been anything but intentional on his part.

    Jacques doesn't give a sh*t what his own family wants, and he takes pains to prove it to them.



    Except as noted earlier, Jacques looks perfectly content, as does Whitley. It's Winter, Weiss and their mom (I'm going with calling her "Willow") who all look thoroughly miserable.
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    Except that if is true that he married into the family they would be her family not his, so he would not care what happens to them, specially if they are part of the opposition inside the SDC, then their death would actually make him happy, and given the distance that Weiss had when talking about the dead family members in season 1 I think that none of the children had much of a relationship with the rest of the Schnees, which would make sense as I don't think that Jacques would allow them to interfere on how HE raises HIS children.

    flashburn said:
    jacques has this slimey real world charm that makes me want to see more of him and punch him in the face at the same time
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    I would say that it makes me punch him in the dick but I think that in his case it is the same thing.
     
    Tekomandor said:
    Old racist rich dude might be sexist too! What a shocker!

    Really, I'm sure that's never happened before. Never ever.
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    I must have missed the part where they were refered to or treated with sexist slurs and forbidden from doing any traditionally masculine activities.

    Such as you know, joining the military or going to what are effectively mercenary and military academys to learn how to fight and die?
     
    Krazyfan1 said:
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    No team FNKI! This is unacceptable! :mob::mob::mob::mob:


    Tekomandor said:
    Old racist rich dude might be sexist too! What a shocker!

    Really, I'm sure that's never happened before. Never ever.
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    Sucal said:
    I must have missed the part where they were refered to or treated with sexist slurs and forbidden from doing any traditionally masculine activities.

    Such as you know, joining the military or going to what are effectively mercenary and military academys to learn how to fight and die?
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    While I personally think that Whitley is the favorite because he's the only kid willing to play along and always do whatever Jackass expects of him I wouldn't be terribly shocked if Jackass was also at least somewhat sexist.
     
    Huh. I didn't know Sunder had a tumblr.

    This is something I saw reblogged on QQ, and it perfectly encapsulates my thoughts on Jaune Arc.

    I like Jaune as a person, Miles does a great job voicing him, and the writing of his scenes has greatly improved. Great scenes; some powerful stuff.

    But in terms of him as a character in the story of RWBY, I kind of hate Jaune Arc.

    His background makes no logical sense within the setting. I've tried to explain it, but my efforts are nothing but theories I should never have had to formulate in the first place. It makes so little sense that Rooster Teeth really should have explained where he really comes from by now.

    Worse, the very contradiction of his place within the story versus his unsuitability to even be in the story is the major reason why he gets so much screen-time. Unlike everyone else, Jaune hasn't developed the skills and self-confidence that would allow him to be a hero like everyone else, so the story has to spend time developing him to the point where he can begin to keep up.

    It's very much like a shounen manga where Jaune is the protagonist who serves as the adolescent male reader's vehicle for living the dream of starting at zero or even behind everyone else and yet somehow beginning a meteoric rise from the bottom to surpass all opponents and become the champion.
    Which would be perfectly fine if Jaune were billed as the main character, but the title is RWBY. If Jaune Arc didn't exist, RWBY could actually focus on the stories of characters who do already have the skills and self-confidence to be heroes, and thus explore the ways in which they are still lacking.

    Two episodes into Volume 4, both of which feature important scenes for Jaune Arc, but Blake and Yang have yet to appear. Why is Jaune's personal drama more important than theirs? Rooster Teeth has never really explained why I should even believe in his handicap, so I can't really sympathize with it like they probably want me to.

    Further, Jaune has nothing to do with anything.

    Ruby is a Silver-Eyed Warrior and thus is apparently the bane of all evil, and Yang is the biological daughter of a woman who can probably magically turn into a bird and who is probably wrapped up in the secret plots of the world; both Ruby and Yang are also the nieces of Qrow Branwen, who is definitely wrapped up in conspiracies regarding the fate of the world. This isn't even counting the possibility that the villains might have murdered the girls' mother, Summer Rose.

    Blake was a former member of the White Fang and is a faunus, which makes her very relevant to the plot regarding the White Fang and the divisions between humans and faunus. Weiss is also important to these plots, as she is the heir to the Schnee Dust Company which is practically at war with the White Fang, and that's not even considering the SDC's importance to the rest of the world and its politics.
    But why is the character of Jaune Arc a main character?
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    Surprisingly, he also wrote a response to his own post.

    Recently I wrote a post questioning the purpose of Jaune's existence as a character. It was a poorly focused argument made in a questionable state of mind, but even while I was considering deleting it or simply editing it to be more reasonable, a series of Reblogs snatched control of my own words away from me.

    I've since changed the title and concluding question to the more moderate stance of questioning the purpose of Jaune Arc's status as a main character, but not only will that change not be reflected in the dozens of Reblogged copies, it no longer even seems like a fair question.

    I think it's more likely that Rooster Teeth always meant to provide more screen-time to Ren, Nora, and all of the members of Team RWBY. They included Team JNPR (envisioned them immediately after Team RWBY and before anyone else, and Jaune was Monty's creation) because they thought they could handle the work-load and juggle that many characters. They bit off more than they could chew.

    They wanted to do something amazing with a big cast of fanciful characters and lots of crazy set-pieces, so we got two full teams of designated main characters and Penny slashing air-boats to pieces and Team CFVY arriving to save the day, but we didn't get Ren and Nora leading JNPR to that village or Sun and Neptune staying to fight Torchwick's Paladin, or anything about Scarlet and Sage.

    I think it's more likely that the focus on Jaune is an accident of budgeting and deadlines. They probably just intended to get his story done first in Volume 1 because of the time-sensitive nature of it, but then they found themselves unable to get much of anything done after that. Let's not forget how much shorter Volume 1 was compared to everything that followed; the "Jaune arc" may have been four episodes long, but each was an eyeblink in terms of run-time.

    Rooster Teeth has gotten better. They're using a better program, they have more manpower, resources, and experience. They've almost certainly heard the complaints against Jaune. Episodes are now longer and capable of featuring more characteres, and the writing of Jaune's scenes has come a long way since the cringe-inducing pain of "Jaundiced"; now I enjoy all of his scenes.

    Once again, I think they're addressing Jaune first because of circumstantial reasons. Pyrrha's loss hurts everyone, but she was his partner, mentor, and possible love-interest; of course he hurts more. But also, Jaune is traveling with Ruby, so episodes with Jaune let us know how Ruby is doing and what she's up to. They even apparently set up Ren and Nora for development in the near future. Plus, Jaune's recording doesn't explain how Ruby heard Pyrrha's last words to Cinder, so something probably is going on with her, after all.
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    However, while it does explain some things, it still doesn't explain why Miles and Kerry thought Jaune should still get the focus when they have had 3 volumes of evidence they can't pull it off. Also, that last bit in regards to Pyrrha's last words I chalk up to a plot hole, something that RT didn't think of. Right now the plot's moving pretty damn slow, and if they want RWBY to get back together at the end of the volume they need to trim unnecessary stuff. And maybe give Ruby some character development in the meantime, because despite having seen three people die in front of her, she doesn't act any different than the previous volumes.
     
    thesevenwielder said:
    And maybe give Ruby some character development in the meantime, because despite having seen three people die in front of her, she doesn't act any different than the previous volumes.
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    Stepford Smilers are wonderful when executed correctly.

    Also wasn't the reason that Juane didn't know about Aura and such was because he was meant to be the audience surrogate who asked these kind of questions for us? and then the writers realized how stupid that was since these sort of questions were common knowledge for the world they lived in, thus why they went with the World of Remnant segments for the exposition instead?
     
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    Sometimes, I honestly think it's NOT Miles and Kerry who keep Jaune in, but someone higher up at RT. Maybe Monty's notes had a plan for him.
     
    thesevenwielder said:
    Huh. I didn't know Sunder had a tumblr.

    This is something I saw reblogged on QQ, and it perfectly encapsulates my thoughts on Jaune Arc.



    Surprisingly, he also wrote a response to his own post.



    However, while it does explain some things, it still doesn't explain why Miles and Kerry thought Jaune should still get the focus when they have had 3 volumes of evidence they can't pull it off. Also, that last bit in regards to Pyrrha's last words I chalk up to a plot hole, something that RT didn't think of. Right now the plot's moving pretty damn slow, and if they want RWBY to get back together at the end of the volume they need to trim unnecessary stuff. And maybe give Ruby some character development in the meantime, because despite having seen three people die in front of her, she doesn't act any different than the previous volumes.
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    For reference, the original sources from @Sunder the Gold's tumblr:
    sunder-the-gold.tumblr.com/post/152480077019/why-is-jaune-arc-a-main-character

    sunder-the-gold.tumblr.com/post/152555967264/id-rather-rooster-teeth-try-for-too-much-than-too


    Regarding the theory that Ruby hearing the conversation between Cinder and Pyrrha in her dream is merely a plot hole, I think the other ideas that have been proposed are more interesting and even more plausible. More interesting because they're more creative explanations, and more plausible because the dreams are obviously significant in some way. "Plot hole", on the other hand, is invariably a boring hypothesis.
     
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    mistakenot said:
    Regarding the theory that Ruby hearing the conversation between Cinder and Pyrrha in her dream is merely a plot hole, I think the other ideas that have been proposed are more interesting and even more plausible. More interesting because they're more creative explanations, and more plausible because the dreams are obviously significant in some way. "Plot hole", on the other hand, is invariably a boring hypothesis.
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    Boring, maybe, but more plausible. I don't think they need to add "soul-absorbing" or the ability to see into the past to her already-expansive powerups. I'd rather this not turn into another Naruto situation.

    r0b0panda said:
    Sometimes, I honestly think it's NOT Miles and Kerry who keep Jaune in, but someone higher up at RT. Maybe Monty's notes had a plan for him.
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    Maybe so, but with the admission that Maidens are something they came up with on their own after his death, they clearly are willing to deviate from Monty's notes.
     
    thesevenwielder said:
    Boring, maybe, but more plausible. I don't think they need to add "soul-absorbing" or the ability to see into the past to her already-expansive powerups. I'd rather this not turn into another Naruto situation.
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    I'm still hoping for Pyrrha to be a Force-ghost. But that's just because she was my second favorite character in the series, so her death was a serious blow.

    thesevenwielder said:
    Maybe so, but with the admission that Maidens are something they came up with on their own after his death, they clearly are willing to deviate from Monty's notes.
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    Which is interesting in itself because Pyrrha's death was in Monty's notes. So I kind of wonder how she was supposed to die.
     
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