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RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • IIRC wasn't Monty like 'here have this maiden concept' to M&K post V2 and they proceed to attempt to integrate it to the outline 3 of them already discussed. It is a Monty Oum concept, not an M&K one. T

    On Jaune, I think (Jaundice bleh aside) him and JNPR...JNR are more meant to be the sidekick/support squad to team Ruby as far as my binging of V1-3 shows me. I took them saying 'JN_R' as A-list means they're the most used support squad for team RWBY. They're not going to be the only ones; there's still SSSN, CFVY, and hopefully also other Vytal Festival teams later on. Heck, maybe one day even CRDL.

    Jaune is going to be a deuteragonist to Ruby at most until V4 ends, and maybe before that if Ruby somehow meets up with Blake in Mistral/Menagerie pretty early (hopefully we have both Jaune and Ruby dealing with their loss and grief in a healthy manner on some level by that point)

    They're just going to be the most frequent ones, which is disadvantaged by them not being a full team though they have theadvantage of being the closest team toteam RWBY thanks to their leaders supposedly being best friends (close friends at least).

    I like Jaune (though I kinda like Ruby, for her combination of badassery and adorkableness, and Ren, for making me question my sexuality, more). He's no longer as irritating as his V1 version. But I'm hoping and have faith for no Jaunedice 2: Electric Boogaloo. Because it'll be a waste of other's screentime and waste of Jaune's use as a character.

    EDIT: also thanks to the 2nd Chapter of Volume 4 we're gonna see development which is hopefully meaningful for Ren and Nora. Ren as the quiet but equally quirky inside to Nora's Noraness. I'm optimistic that JNR as a unit is going to come along nicely, not just Dork Knight.
     
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    thesevenwielder said:
    Boring, maybe, but more plausible. I don't think they need to add "soul-absorbing" or the ability to see into the past to her already-expansive powerups. I'd rather this not turn into another Naruto situation.
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    We've only seen one example where Ruby's "silver eyes" were used, so I don't feel like we can say what is or isn't a stretch. We're a long way from powerup of the week. Besides, some of the explanations focus on Pyrrha or Cinder, so Ruby may not even be the culprit here. Either way, I don't think "plot hole" is likely.

    Maybe so, but with the admission that Maidens are something they came up with on their own after his death, they clearly are willing to deviate from Monty's notes.
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    I think something got lost in translation here. What the Volume 3 Directors Commentary actually said was:

    According to Miles, the Maidens were not an idea that was present at the start of RWBY, but was an idea Monty had between Volumes 2 and 3, and he really wanted to implement it into the story, even though it meant changing several things.
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    https://i.imgur.com/1IzVJHG.jpg
    (source: reddit.com/r/RWBY/comments/4ekhrr/rwby_volume_3_directors_commentary/)

    It's not clear whether the second "he" is referring to Monty or Miles, but either way it was something they co-developed. And they're clearly working within a framework, as evidenced by the very fact that they had to make accommodations to fit the change Monty and the writers wanted to make. There are also major long term events which didn't change, such as Pyrrha's death, so it's not like they've completely altered the course of the story. Even Shane's infamous open letter, if we read between the lines of Shane's obvious discontent, basically affirms that they're following the original plan.
     
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    mistakenot said:


    (source: reddit.com/r/RWBY/comments/4ekhrr/rwby_volume_3_directors_commentary/)

    And they're clearly working within a framework, as evidenced by the very fact that they had to make accommodations to fit the change Monty and the writers wanted to make. There are also major long term events which didn't change, such as Pyrrha's death, so it's not like they've completely altered the course of the story. Even Shane's infamous open letter, if we read between the lines of Shane's obvious discontent, basically affirms that they're following the original plan.
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    Wow my memory wasn't that off on the Maidens tidbit.

    EDIT: also kudos mistakenot for your info searching.
     
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    You know sometimes it feels like people who hate Jaune assume they are completely one hundred percent correct in their hate and think it's impossible anyone likes him.

    I for one like him the most, he's fun.
     
    anailater said:
    You know sometimes it feels like people who hate Jaune assume they are completely one hundred percent correct in their hate and think it's impossible anyone likes him.

    I for one like him the most, he's fun.
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    Even if I like him I admit he can be irritating, especially at the earliest parts of RWBY. Jaunedice arc, though it has him dealing with his most major hangup of his transcripts and his bullying, does not help at all. His butt monkey moments also overshadow some subtle tactical ability shown as early as initiation.

    I can forgive his butt monkeyness, no matter how much he develops or how strong he gets he's still going to be relatively crap in combat outside of his leadership.

    Dat 'strategist doesn't need weapons ur fine' R_NR is said to give him is both hilarious and wut. I reiterate: why not bring some arms, borrow it at least. Unless they gotta buy it and are not allowed to possibly break weapons against the Geist that is.
     
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    Given Ruby's crazy good eye sight and being able to hear Pyrrha's recording from very far away while asleep, is it possible she actually did overhear Pyrrha's question to Cinder?
     
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    Zam said:
    Given Ruby's crazy good eye sight and being able to hear Pyrrha's recording from very far away while asleep, is it possible she actually did overheard Pyrrha's question to Cinder?
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    Ruby best scout confirmed then? :V

    But wouldn't the rushing wind when she uses her semblance and the fact she's moving in high speed obscure whatever she might hear?
     
    Regency said:
    Ruby best scout confirmed then? :V

    But wouldn't the rushing wind when she uses her semblance and the fact she's moving in high speed obscure whatever she might hear?
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    Well she did spy Emerald from across the Amity Colosseum without a scope :D

    Good point there, yeah, though was Weiss using her Glyphs, maybe that had some sort of 'minus wind rush' effect? (Dumb idea I know.)
     
    anailater said:
    You know sometimes it feels like people who hate Jaune assume they are completely one hundred percent correct in their hate and think it's impossible anyone likes him.

    I for one like him the most, he's fun.
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    If Jaune were in another series I would like him. However, he is in RWBY and he is totally out of place in every way to the rest of the series. It's jarring, to say the least. He's gotten a bit better, and him dealing with PTSD is a hell of a lot more interesting than the Jaundace and Dance arcs, and his butt monkey status is far better than the cringe comedy of the Vytal fight, but that PTSD arc should focus on Ruby.

    So I don't dislike Jaune on his own, it's just how he doesn't belong in the setting he's in.
    Regency said:
    Ruby best scout confirmed then? :V

    But wouldn't the rushing wind when she uses her semblance and the fact she's moving in high speed obscure whatever she might hear?
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    Nanomachines Aura, son.
     
    So I finally decided to give in and ride on the hype train that is RWBY. My thoughts on the first two episode:

    • Action looks fun
    • Ruby is soooooo adorable.
    • Weiss deserves to be slapped. Silver spoon fed all her life.
    • Blake seems nice. Looks like a cat girl Tabitha from FoZ.
    • Yang is neat.
    • I wanna punch Jaune in the face. Then again, audience proxy self insert. Also his name makes me cringe. At least make it less obvious RT!
    • Prryha is best girl goodness yes. Redheads redheads reeeeedheeeaaads <3
    • Grimm's are totally not hollows.
    • And the animation is meh

    I'll say more as I watch along.
     
    I actually liked Jaundice, kinda.
    V1 flows better if you watch it in one sitting, like a movie.

    But while I like Jaune, he really is getting more development than the actual title character. I for one hope all this Ruby buildup has a payoff somewhere, because there's a lot of potential they've already skipped over her for.
     
    Say... given Cinder already had weird fiery eyes during V1, and Pyrrha had a leaf theme going on in the V2 opening despite the Maidens mythology apparently only being invented in between V2/V3, who here thinks that the original 'Fall Maiden' concept would have been connected to the Forever Fall specifically?
     
    Genolution said:
    I actually liked Jaundice, kinda.
    V1 flows better if you watch it in one sitting, like a movie.

    But while I like Jaune, he really is getting more development than the actual title character. I for one hope all this Ruby buildup has a payoff somewhere, because there's a lot of potential they've already skipped over her for.
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    Probably already posted in previous pages. Some points on these I disagree on, especially on Ruby's naivete/innocence. I do agree Ruby needs more development aside from being the MC she is perhaps (subjective here) developed the least in team RWBY? Ren and Nora are perhaps the only one developed less right now, but JNR being temporary main is helping to resolve that for V4 (or maybe not even till the end). Still we're only in the starting parts of a season, and basing (subjectively,again) on the ending scene for Ruby in V4E2 I think it's highly likely we're exploring her changes more.

    EDIT:
    Zam said:
    Say... given Cinder already had weird fiery eyes during V1, and Pyrrha had a leaf theme going on in the V2 opening despite the Maidens mythology apparently only being invented in between V2/V3, who here thinks that the original 'Fall Maiden' concept would have been connected to the Forever Fall specifically?
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    Hmm perhaps due to the theme of Vale Kingdom (the Fall season?). I honestly don't know unless I miss more of RT post-Volume notes on RWBY, but being focused on one place would have some interesting effects but with heavy limits outside the area. Like a Maiden building a spiritual domain on their own?

    Wild theorizing ahoy.

    EDIT2: Art by @Lowarghh on twitter, misterpoofofficial on tumblr, thatcoleslaw on tumblr,

    link

    sauce

     
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    That tumblr post is interesting, but is very reaching. As portrayed, Ruby isn't a stepford smiler. I have seem plenty of them in fiction. My brother is one of them. I have some idea of what they are, what they look like. Ruby is not a stepford smiler. What you see is what you get. IIRC the songs were written with barely any information on the characters themselves, or the characters were changed mid-production.
     
    thesevenwielder said:
    That tumblr post is interesting, but is very reaching. As portrayed, Ruby isn't a stepford smiler. I have seem plenty of them in fiction. My brother is one of them. I have some idea of what they are, what they look like. Ruby is not a stepford smiler. What you see is what you get. IIRC the songs were written with barely any information on the characters themselves, or the characters were changed mid-production.
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    It is quite reaching in parts yes...

    But, uh, character changed mid-production? Examples? I'm quite curious on this.

    EDIT: art by NDGD, on her tumblr (I think it's not on her deviantart)

    sauce


    sauce . made by redditor Walter_Melone_Carrot
     
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    Regency said:
    It is quite reaching in parts yes...

    But, uh, character changed mid-production? Examples? I'm quite curious on this.
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    This is all second-hand information, but from what I hear (which I admit could be wrong) the character songs were created before the characters themselves were properly created. So things changed, and what we hear in the song isn't very accurate to the characters in the show.

    Sorry, it's two in the morning and I cannot into words. I'll try again after I get some sleep.
     
    Not sure whether Ruby counts as a Stepford smiler, but some posts I've seen do note that she seems really cheery and even more bombastic in some scenes than she used to be, but once eyes are off her she looks sad and so may be forcing it a bit to avoid dealing with her issues.
    Regency said:
    Hmm perhaps due to the theme of Vale Kingdom (the Fall season?). I honestly don't know unless I miss more of RT post-Volume notes on RWBY, but being focused on one place would have some interesting effects but with heavy limits outside the area. Like a Maiden building a spiritual domain on their own?

    Wild theorizing ahoy.
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    Kind of curious, what gave you the impression of Vale as the Fall Kingdom? Was it just the Forever Fall or something different that I missed?

    Ah sorry I think I explained poorly, the idea is that the powers and title would be the same, and that the Forever Fall may just be something a Maiden made, or was initially born from, but not that they are currently bound to or dependant on.
     
    Zaru said:
    So I finally decided to give in and ride on the hype train that is RWBY. My thoughts on the first two episode:

    • Action looks fun
    • Ruby is soooooo adorable.
    • Weiss deserves to be slapped. Silver spoon fed all her life.
    • Blake seems nice. Looks like a cat girl Tabitha from FoZ.
    • Yang is neat.
    • I wanna punch Jaune in the face. Then again, audience proxy self insert. Also his name makes me cringe. At least make it less obvious RT!
    • Prryha is best girl goodness yes. Redheads redheads reeeeedheeeaaads <3
    • Grimm's are totally not hollows.
    • And the animation is meh

    I'll say more as I watch along.
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    1. Did you watch the four trailers before the first episode?
    2. The animation improves in spurts over the course of the series
     
    Like @thesevenwielder said, my issues with Jaune have largely centered around the fact that he is very clearly a Protagonist Character.

    I mean, if you were to tell me that there was some series called JNPR where the lead character, Jaune Arc:

    - Comes from a family history of huntsmen and warriors that he wants to live up to.
    - Personally lacked the skill to do so.
    - Was nonetheless possessed of the will and drive to succeed, so snuck his way into an elite academy.
    - Struggled through his early days because he lacked the prerequisites that the other students had, but made friends quickly.
    - Showed off his ability to succeed using his brain instead of his brawn in an early fight.
    - Went through a character-development arc where his backstory was revealed, and learned the Important Lesson(tm) that he has to be able to rely on his friends, to stand for them and lean on them as a team.
    - Was involved in a love-triangle scenario where he was crushing heavily on the school's "unattainable" girl while unable to notice that his female best bud was crushing just as hard on him but couldn't spit it out.
    - Had that love triangle come to a tragic end where she finally made her feelings explicit, then thrust him away to protect him (highlighting once again his feelings of weakness and inadequacy) and went off to die.

    ...well, I'd say that had potential for a pretty good first season! Everything about Jaune's character is built out of Main Character tropes (even when he's playing surrogate for the audience to get the setting explained to him, he's simultaneously playing the Sir Percival role of the hick from the country who doesn't know what's really going on in the world he's entered and needs to learn the basics while growing up fast). There's a good reason why so many fanfics star Jaune as the MC. He's basically designed to be the male audience member's SI.

    The problem is, he's not a main character, and somehow JNPR is airing within the show RWBY. It's not that Jaune is a bad character or an uninteresting character. The problem is that there are literally four other protagonist characters whose character development time is constantly being sacrificed to him. For example, I don't think that people complaining about Ruby's loss somehow being "greater" than Jaune's are right. Pyrrha was Jaune's mentor and closest friend. She was a friendly acquaintance, best-friend-of-a-friend to Ruby. Penny was someone Ruby met three times. That's not to say that Ruby didn't suffer loss; it's just that Jaune suffered an immediate and personal loss and it's easy to see why he'd be affected the most deeply by that loss. What bothers me is that we're spending limited time and budget on exploring that loss. (For example, if Pyrrha had parents, I'm sure that they're suffering serious grief at this point. I don't care about seeing them on screen.)

    Moreover, specifically because Jaune's story arc is very much the arc of a Main Character undergoing the Hero's Journey, it very much feels like he's "stealing the spotlight" from the RWBY characters instead of being a side character getting an occasional focus episode.

    (Now, I genuinely do dislike the Jaune/Weiss romance, because it embodies many of the tropes that I hate, the classic "Nice Guy(tm) pines over unattainable beauty for the entire series, quite possibly literal years, ignoring all attempts at rejection, never moving on with his own life, until as a literary prize for his constancy she suddenly 'sees the light' and falls for him in return.")
     
    Owls over on SB posted this, figured it might be worth sharing:



    1) Summer is confirmed dead.

    2) Ruby is keeping her emotions and feelings about the fall of beacon inside with a happy go lucky outside.(Yes! :) ) "For Ruby and I'm sorry this going to spoil some stuff, but she watches some people who are very close to her die"

    3) Actual Blake development

    4) Character development basic premise: Welcome to the Real World

    5) It was hard to play Blake in Chibi

    6) The all like RWBY Chibi.

    7) Running out of material for Chibi

    8) All say RNGR "Suck it, Jaune." Ruby/Lindsey

    9) "Screw the rules, she has money" about Blake's Jacket.

    10) Barb: "Yang or Jesus?" Male Yang Cosplayer: "Yes"

    11) They may or may not know future stuff in RWBY, not even some weapon names like Qrow's Sythe. Only the Writers know, and some stuff is adlib.

    12) Lindsey likes to adlib in the recording booth

    13) Yang's only pun, wasn't written by Barb.

    14)Lindsey wishes she could rerecord volume 1, innocence in her voice.

    15)Fighting sounds are hard to voice act.

    16) Barb: Doing your own voice is hard to voice act on to a character

    17) Volume 4 opening is the most anime

    18) separate lighting team now

    19) Barb: Cosmo in fairy tail, huge boobs, Villain

    20) Look at Fan Art all of the time. Tumblr and Reddit.

    21) Writers are will to accept new ideas, like new characters, from both internal and external (the community)

    22) VAs can script check, to match their characters. Small tweaks nothing major.

    23) All VAs knew about Volume 3 before Volume 1. Barb knew about yang's arm before even given the roll. Yellow trailer quote was foreshadowing.

    Edit: adding that Lindsay said Pyrrha was dead again.
     
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