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RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • Imrix said:
    ... Wasn't Whitley's whole characterisation basically, "huh, my jerk younger brother has shaped up to be a surprisingly decent person."?
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    Hes a recently revealed Male in RWBY.

    80% of the fans hate him already, for getting in the way of the YUri (without him showing any attraction to any character). I suspect they'll end up shipping him with the butler or something, and calling it 'true luv' (like Sea Monkeys was started by Irate Bumblebee shippers)
     
    I mean, for my part I thought Whitley came off pretty well. His characterisation seemed to me very much to be a case of Weiss realising, "huh, my annoying little brother grew up into someone surprisingly pleasant. I guess I was away a long time."

    Like, Whitley didn't have to seek Weiss out and warn her that her dad's been angry, but he did, and more, he volunteered some details about what sort of anger their father has been dealing with, letting Weiss prepare herself for the specific flavour of her fathers mood.

    It's also not clear that he regards Winter as a threat. He admits that they don't get along, but he mentions her strength and resolve as points in her favour, which seems an odd choice for him to focus on if he viewed her strength as threatening his path in life.

    Too, I really did not get the impression that Mama Schnee was uncomfortable in that portrait. Not at all; she came off as prim, reserved, in strict control of herself, looking down her nose at the painter as if to say, "get on with it, you tiresome little man."

    The impression I got, honestly, is that the Schnee parents are both unpleasant people (note that Weiss has expressed discomfort with her father, but hasn't mentioned her mother at all, which perhaps implies she's not much of a contrast), and that their children have had to get along as best they can in the company of each other and the servants, like Klein. They may not always have liked each other, but I suspect they're close anyway.

    Three kids huddling together in the shadow of their parents slowly cutting each other to pieces on their respective frozen edges.
     
    Imrix said:
    I mean, for my part I thought Whitley came off pretty well. His characterisation seemed to me very much to be a case of Weiss realising, "huh, my annoying little brother grew up into someone surprisingly pleasant. I guess I was away a long time."

    Like, Whitley didn't have to seek Weiss out and warn her that her dad's been angry, but he did, and more, he volunteered some details about what sort of anger their father has been dealing with, letting Weiss prepare herself for the specific flavour of her fathers mood.

    It's also not clear that he regards Winter as a threat. He admits that they don't get along, but he mentions her strength and resolve as points in her favour, which seems an odd choice for him to focus on if he viewed her strength as threatening his path in life.

    Too, I really did not get the impression that Mama Schnee was uncomfortable in that portrait. Not at all; she came off as prim, reserved, in strict control of herself, looking down her nose at the painter as if to say, "get on with it, you tiresome little man."

    The impression I got, honestly, is that the Schnee parents are both unpleasant people (note that Weiss has expressed discomfort with her father, but hasn't mentioned her mother at all, which perhaps implies she's not much of a contrast), and that their children have had to get along as best they can in the company of each other and the servants, like Klein. They may not always have liked each other, but I suspect they're close anyway.

    Three kids huddling together in the shadow of their parents slowly cutting each other to pieces on their respective frozen edges.
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    Do we still need a spoiler when the episode is viewable with a free account starting today?

    Anyways, while it's possible that he isn't a total bastard, I think you're being too optimistic about Whitley's portrayal. RWBY has pretty predictable symbolism and ques which all point to Whiteley being the favorite child. And his interactions with Weiss, It came off, to me at least, in a fashion that was slightly off-putting and sinister.

    I wouldn't put too much stock in how Weiss reacted in that scene either. Remember that Weiss went into her father's office trying to assume the best and was promptly disillusioned. The only difference is that Whiteley wasn't the one to break the masquerade.

    As for his comment about how he hadn't stopped growing. I took it to mean he's been consolidating his position as dad's favorite. Gaining the acumen and skill to be crowned heir to the family fortunes.

    Which would also explain his respect for winter. Even if he regards her as a threat. People don't hang on to those sort of inherited positions if they don't learn to respect an opponent's abilities.

    I honestly expect Winter and Weiss to be, effectively, disowned by the end of the season.

    And while don't know if Papa Schnee is actually misogynistic, it seems idiotic in a world where huntresses are just as common and respected as huntsmen, but I do get the impression he pinned his hopes on the child which he regarded as most like himself.
     
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    Triggerhappy said:
    And while don't know if Papa Schnee is actually misogynistic, it seems idiotic in a world where huntresses are just as common and respected as huntsmen, but I do get the impression he pinned his hopes on the child which he regarded as most like himself.
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    I'm pretty confident in saying that how much Jacques Schnee cares for his children is entirely dependent on how obedient they are to him and how little he has to struggle to force them to conform to his will. So Whitley, who seems just fine with being daddy's little puppet unlike Winter and Weiss, is the favored child.
     
    Sucal said:
    Trigger.

    You are going full tumblr.

    You never go full tumblr.

    Please don't accuse ANY character of any type of prejudice without any kind of proof, because that way lies bashing
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    I wasn't :???:

    This comment was made in context to the spoilered blog post speculating on whiteley. I really can't make a judgment either way.

    Edit : I mean, I do think there's a reason, thematically, to make the favored child male without bringing in any overt prejudice. And that's simply to emphasize that what Papa Schnee wants in an heir is 'Himself the Second'.

    That has nothing to do with Prejudice and everything to do with ego and a superficial grasp of his own children.
     
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    Zam said:
    Well Winter did say that he'd probably make his heiress into a secretary and Weiss didn't seem to disagree.
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    That was pretty clearly intended to rile Weiss up, though. I'm not sure we can trust that as an accurate statement. Anyway, more likely if he passed her up for the heiress he'd make her something more useful, like a socialite to be the face of fundraisers and other high society crap.
     
    Leingod said:
    That was pretty clearly intended to rile Weiss up, though. I'm not sure we can trust that as an accurate statement. Anyway, more likely if he passed her up for the heiress he'd make her something more useful, like a socialite to be the face of fundraisers and other high society crap.
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    That's a fair point, I was just making an observation really, whether he turns out to be sexist or just a dick or something else is all up in the air, though I feel the dick one is pretty likely.
     
    Leingod said:
    That was pretty clearly intended to rile Weiss up, though. I'm not sure we can trust that as an accurate statement. Anyway, more likely if he passed her up for the heiress he'd make her something more useful, like a socialite to be the face of fundraisers and other high society crap.
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    Arranged Marriage?
     
    Sucal said:
    Do you know how much power an executives personal secretary has?

    In many cases it can be more then the actual board of directors
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    I have never heard much indicating that.

    Also am I the only who finds it kind of sad that the best family portrait the Schnee family had still had 2/3 of its present people looking miserable? Like, was the idea even trying to make them look like a happy family so unimportant, or was that just the best one they could get? I am now picturing several pictures lying around an art studio that are significantly more depressing with a passed out artist before Papa Schnee just says 'fine I'll take this one'.
     
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    Zam said:
    I have never heard much indicating that.
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    Personal secretaries control access to important individuals. They can dictate whether you actually get to see who you're talking to, and they can inform their employer about the topics that they should think are important, as well as a stance to take on that issue. High level secretaries have a lot of mojo on their side.
     
    Zam said:
    Also am I the only who finds it kind of sad that the best family portrait the Schnee family had still had 2/3 of its present people looking miserable? Like, was the idea even trying to make them look like a happy family s unimportant, or was that just the best one they could get? I am now picturing several pictures lying around an art studio that are significantly more depressing with a passed out artist before Papa Schnee just says 'fine I'll take this one'.
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    Well remember according to Weiss her family has lost a few members over the years due to there "battles" with the White Fang who is to say that the portrait wasn't made after a round of losses in the family?
     
    Azecreth said:
    Personal secretaries control access to important individuals. They can dictate whether you actually get to see who you're talking to, and they can inform their employer about the topics that they should think are important, as well as a stance to take on that issue. High level secretaries have a lot of mojo on their side.
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    An interesting point, though at the same time, if they do something their boss disapproves of, like keep someone they wanted in out of a meeting then they'd likely just get fired. It feels very much like a soft power.
    Tython82 said:
    Well remember according to Weiss her family has lost a few members over the years due to there "battles" with the White Fang who is to say that the portrait wasn't made after a round of losses in the family?
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    An interesting idea, but if I recall correctly, the White Fang only went violent five years prior to canon and Weiss looks much smaller than twelve in that picture.
     
    Zam said:
    I have never heard much indicating that.

    Also am I the only who finds it kind of sad that the best family portrait the Schnee family had still had 2/3 of its present people looking miserable? Like, was the idea even trying to make them look like a happy family s unimportant, or was that just the best one they could get? I am now picturing several pictures lying around an art studio that are significantly more depressing with a passed out artist before Papa Schnee just says 'fine I'll take this one'.
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    I think it's actually the first one. Jacques very clearly doesn't give a sh*t what anyone in his family thinks, he cares that they fall in line and play the part he's decided for them. It doesn't matter that only he and his favored child look remotely happy in that "happy family portrait," he just cares that they sat their asses down for the portrait so that he could hang up a family portrait because that's what you do.

    I mean, just look at how they're all posed, too. The way his three children are arranged, your eye is naturally drawn to Whitley in the center; Winter and Weiss are set up so that they're essentially just framing him. You could cut both of them out of the picture, change nothing else about it, and it would not look remotely out of place. And given how controlling Jacques is, and how deliberately you can tell he places everything in his mansion, it can't have been anything but intentional on his part.

    Jacques doesn't give a sh*t what his own family wants, and he takes pains to prove it to them.

    Tython82 said:
    Well remember according to Weiss her family has lost a few members over the years due to there "battles" with the White Fang who is to say that the portrait wasn't made after a round of losses in the family?
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    Except as noted earlier, Jacques looks perfectly content, as does Whitley. It's Winter, Weiss and their mom (I'm going with calling her "Willow") who all look thoroughly miserable.
     
    Sucal said:
    Do you know how much power an executives personal secretary has?

    In many cases it can be more then the actual board of directors
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    Azecreth said:
    Personal secretaries control access to important individuals. They can dictate whether you actually get to see who you're talking to, and they can inform their employer about the topics that they should think are important, as well as a stance to take on that issue. High level secretaries have a lot of mojo on their side.
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    To be fair Winter was trying a dig at Weiss' expense. I'm fairly confident she meant it in a less positive light.

    Essentially that Jacques expects obedience or else he delivers the unfortunate party into irrelevance.

    Again, that has nothing to do with Gender and everything to do with control.
     
    Zam said:
    An interesting point, though at the same time, if they do something their boss disapproves of, like keep someone they wanted in out of a meeting then they'd likely just get fired. It feels very much like a soft power..
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    No, your not quite getting it.

    If the boss wants you there, then sure your there. Often however, its the sectary who gets the final say in whether or not the boss wants you there (so what did you think of him? I thought he was ok, a little flaky and badly presented though), or when you get to see the boss. Theres a difference between seeing the boss when its bright and early on a good day, or after a long dragged out frustrating meeting which will cloud how he sees you. For an extreme example, see Pepper Potts from Iron Man.

    Its an issue that many people looking for work in high power firms don't quite understand, considering the receptionist or secretary to be little more then a glorified type writer, while the job interview actually stated from the moment they first talked to them, rather then when they actually met the boss. You never get a second chance to make a first impression, and they are the ones that get the 'real' first impression, rather then how you are when your trying to get a job.
     
    Sucal said:
    No, your not quite getting it.

    If the boss wants you there, then sure your there. Often however, its the sectary who gets the final say in whether or not the boss wants you there (so what did you think of him? I thought he was ok, a little flaky and badly presented though), or when you get to see the boss. Theres a difference between seeing the boss when its bright and early on a good day, or after a long dragged out frustrating meeting which will cloud how he sees you. For an extreme example, see Pepper Potts from Iron Man.

    Its an issue that many people looking for work in high power firms don't quite understand, considering the receptionist or secretary to be little more then a glorified type writer, while the job interview actually stated from the moment they first talked to them, rather then when they actually met the boss. You never get a second chance to make a first impression, and they are the ones that get the 'real' first impression, rather then how you are when your trying to get a job.
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    Does Weiss's father really come across as someone who would ask his secretary, or anyone else's opinion?

    Leingod said:
    I think it's actually the first one. Jacques very clearly doesn't give a sh*t what anyone in his family thinks, he cares that they fall in line and play the part he's decided for them. It doesn't matter that only he and his favored child look remotely happy in that "happy family portrait," he just cares that they sat their asses down for the portrait so that he could hang up a family portrait because that's what you do.

    I mean, just look at how they're all posed, too. The way his three children are arranged, your eye is naturally drawn to Whitley in the center; Winter and Weiss are set up so that they're essentially just framing him. You could cut both of them out of the picture, change nothing else about it, and it would not look remotely out of place. And given how controlling Jacques is, and how deliberately you can tell he places everything in his mansion, it can't have been anything but intentional on his part.

    Jacques doesn't give a sh*t what his own family wants, and he takes pains to prove it to them.
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    Very insightful, that's makes a lot of sense and fits well with his current behaviour and what we've heard of him from other characters.
     
    Zam said:
    Does Weiss's father really come across as someone who would ask his secretary, or anyone else's opinion
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    We don't know yet, thats my point.

    We know that the person in charge of the Knight test in the manga reported directly to him, so she might have been his secretary. My entire point was that calling him a misogynist just yet is completely beyond the pale, because we don't know jack and shit about him!
     
    Sucal said:
    We don't know yet, thats my point.

    We know that the person in charge of the Knight test in the manga reported directly to him, so she might have been his secretary. My entire point was that calling him a misogynist just yet is completely beyond the pale, because we don't know jack and shit about him!
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    Well I disagree that we know 'jack shit' about him, we know Weiss and Winter dislike him enough to be desperate to get out of the house and are willing to be cut off from his money and support to do so. We know he would come home furious and that "Made for a very difficult childhood".

    We know that he will throw a Grimm knight at his daughter and does not attend her concerts and is not particularly complimentary even when they do, do well.

    We have also seen that Weiss is utterly miserable in her own home and seemingly dreads being called into his presence, compare her slow downward shuffle to her old confident strides.

    And he definitely seems to come across as indifferent to Weiss's feelings and as a manipulative individual.

    Plus if we do take from the picture and Whitley's general attitude, they seem like they're the only happy one's in the house/family. .
     
    Speaking of, I don't think Papa Schnee has actually done anything particularly bad onscreen. He was grumpy about exports being cut off for both financial reasons but also with respect to the political stupidity of it. I'm pretty sure that most real life CEOs would be apoplectic if something like that happened, conflict or not. He then says he's organizing a charity thing to help deescalate things, and asks if Weiss could go sing at it, emphasizing that she's only person who is both "Schnee family" and "helped defend Vale during the fall of Beacon". He pointedly emphasizes this in terms of how this would make people happy and be a good deed, rather than just to help Jacques.

    Viewers are taking the worst possible interpretation of his every action because we've had years of wild mass guessing about him off a handful of minor tidbits and details hinting that he may not be the greatest person in the world. Fanfics are full of stories where Schnee Industries virtually or actually enslaves faunus to work for them, or hires mercenaries from Atlas to act as Pinkerton detectives, etc etc. We don't know shit about Schnee Industries other than that Weiss vaguely indicating her father's legacy isn't something to be proud of and Blake agreeing. Details on family are alarming and getting more alarming by the minute, but we still just don't know all that much.
     
    firefossil said:
    Speaking of, I don't think Papa Schnee has actually done anything particularly bad onscreen. He was grumpy about exports being cut off for both financial reasons but also with respect to the political stupidity of it.
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    I should note that I took his comments very much from a public relations perspective; in the current political climate, hoarding Dust will make Atlas strong, but that desire for strength may in itself be seen as preparations for war, inviting attack. It's not a move you make if you want to defuse tension, is what I think Papa Schnee was trying to get across... Which actually casts him in something of a peacemaker light.
     
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