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RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • Zam said:
    Being able to restrain his anger around a minion doesn't necessarily mean he wasn't angry, he was very controlled and methodical when beating Blake and crippling Yang in front of her, as fr letting her go my assumption, he expected her to come running back and is extra salty because she didn't making her "betrayal" "real".
    I... sorry I actually don't understand what you're trying to say with the second half of your post, leaving an abusive relationship doesn't retroactively make it none abusive, sorry if I misunderstood.
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    Yeah you are misunderstanding my point
    Blake didnt stay she left meaning she realized the situation she was in wasnt one she could stay in. And yet not a word about Adam being an Abuser not even a HINT of that in her behavior which is another thing.
    Blake is a strong independent Woman with her own ideals and values and we dont see her avoiding situations. Someone from an abusive relationship would have triggers stuff they KNOW would set off their abusers yet we dont see that behavior from her.
    And I disagree with your view on him feeling her betrayal was real or not it was made VERY obvious it was real.
    Zam said:
    Sorry hit post before quoting this, it wasn't not telling Blake, in of itself that was the issue, but he had two mooks and the lieutenant in the meeting but he kept his "partner" out of it, restricting her access to people and information.
    He also doesn't seem to care much about the Faunus any-more given his reaction to the Breach. I'm not sure how Adam being a terrorist makes him less likely to be an abusive person, it seems to make it more likely given he got used to using extreme violence to solve his problems.
    I disagree, for the reasons I've already stated I'm afraid, to me his behaviour seems equal parts text book and fitting given his previous characterization.
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    Tython82 said:
    At the very end of said Trailer we don't even see Adam's reaction for all we know he was in a state of Disbelief and then Super Angry.
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    No the issue with that is because of Cinder's flashback He is flat out dismissive of Cinder and when Blake asks him about it he tells her nothing. This isnt in my view him keeping Blake out of it but rather him honestly willing to hear them out but that is it and him keeping a powerful guard in case they try anything since we know LT is no push over. Also we dont know Blake's rank in this she may not be all that high a powerful fighter but maybe not a leader I dont know but that cant be dismissed since they do seem to have ranks. Basically Cinder at that time wasnt anything to Adam outside of a crazy human.
    Also
    12;20 timestamp
    Lt: We will find her sir I swear on my life.
    Adam: Forget it. Its time I return to Mystral and-fight starts
    Adam is angry you can hear it in his voice but he is dismissive of Blake running almost like he expected it which may be another reason why he didnt have her there.

    Now his dismissive about Faunus is true and in fact may give an example of when the MC started since there is a VERY clear line of behavior from before and after Cinder. Before Cinder he was for Faunus after cinder he didnt seem shook up by their deaths but that may also be because of how big the operation is hard to say on that it could go either way.
    Him being a terrorist was me pointing out some of the behavior is the security features that terrorist MUST emply to keep themselves from being found out such as compartment knowledge ie no one knows everything outside of a very small group of people.

    Basically what we see from Adam before this last episode doesnt show us this behavior and that INCLUDES his reactions to Blake.

    Now we are derailing the thread so I am going to call it because this Sat will prove or disprove what we are saying and I have a feeling RT isnt even close to being done
     
    revanninja said:
    Yeah you are misunderstanding my point
    Blake didnt stay she left meaning she realized the situation she was in wasnt one she could stay in. And yet not a word about Adam being an Abuser not even a HINT of that in her behavior which is another thing.
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    I'm still confused sorry, how does Blake leaving not imply there were issues? Yes you could say they were exclusively moral issues with his murderous habits, I wouldn't agree but you could say that. As to her not referencing him being abusive, as was noted in the Tumblr post, and elsewhere many abuse victims don't actually think of themselves as being abused, don't generally like discussing it and its possible that so long as Blake was obedient he didn't physically abuse her even if the relationship itself was toxic and damaging for her to be in.

    revanninja said:
    Blake is a strong independent Woman with her own ideals and values and we dont see her avoiding situations. Someone from an abusive relationship would have triggers stuff they KNOW would set off their abusers yet we dont see that behavior from her.
    And I disagree with your view on him feeling her betrayal was real or not it was made VERY obvious it was real.
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    Something like this was brought up with me awhile ago, I suggested that a certain character would never stay in an abusive relationship due to their personality and, well suffice to say had it broken down for me that no matter how strong someone presents themselves as all that can fly out the window thanks to a mixture of manipulation, a subconscious sunk costs fallacy, fear and self deception. Blake being strong doesn't make it impossible for her to have ended up in an unhealthy and abusive relationship. As for trigger... they've only had very brief interactions and she was actively fighting him the second time they met so I'm not sure what you are trying to get at.
    It was mostly a suggestion as to why he might not have immediately sought her out, he may have assumed 'She'll be back, she always comes back" for a separate media example its sort of like that episode of Batman where Harley ran off with Poison Ivy, the Joker had thrown her out but fully expected her to come back, as she always did and only flipped out when she actually seemed interested in staying gone.

    revanninja said:
    No the issue with that is because of Cinder's flashback He is flat out dismissive of Cinder and when Blake asks him about it he tells her nothing. This isnt in my view him keeping Blake out of it but rather him honestly willing to hear them out but that is it and him keeping a powerful guard in case they try anything since we know LT is no push over. Also we dont know Blake's rank in this she may not be all that high a powerful fighter but maybe not a leader I dont know but that cant be dismissed since they do seem to have ranks. Basically Cinder at that time wasnt anything to Adam outside of a crazy human.
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    Given Blake was Adam's partner she was presumably fairly strong yet he kept her out off a meeting he did invite mook guards and the lieutenant too, assuming the lieutenant wasn't the local leader and therefore obligated to be there rather than cut out. Regardless, you can say, think and or feel that he wasn't trying to keep her isolated or in the dark with his decisions, but I disagree with on that, and I don't see that changing as I don't agree with your arguments. Though I feel the need to note that while she was horrified by Adam's behaviour and confused as to what the plan would accomplish, when it came to his interactions with her, and his threats about Yang Blake didn't seem particularly shocked, just scared.

    revanninja said:
    Also
    12;20 timestamp
    Lt: We will find her sir I swear on my life.
    Adam: Forget it. Its time I return to Mystral and-fight starts
    Adam is angry you can hear it in his voice but he is dismissive of Blake running almost like he expected it which may be another reason why he didnt have her there.
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    I disagree, though he may have planned to find and deal with her himself or genuinely thought they couldn't catch her all things considered, likely not something he's happy about given the anger.

    revanninja said:
    Now his dismissive about Faunus is true and in fact may give an example of when the MC started since there is a VERY clear line of behavior from before and after Cinder. Before Cinder he was for Faunus after cinder he didnt seem shook up by their deaths but that may also be because of how big the operation is hard to say on that it could go either way.
    Him being a terrorist was me pointing out some of the behavior is the security features that terrorist MUST emply to keep themselves from being found out such as compartment knowledge ie no one knows everything outside of a very small group of people.
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    Why would someone's own partner not be told they were going to be bombing a train filled with civilians but still told about the rest of the mission?

    revanninja said:
    Basically what we see from Adam before this last episode doesnt show us this behavior and that INCLUDES his reactions to Blake.

    Now we are derailing the thread so I am going to call it because this Sat will prove or disprove what we are saying and I have a feeling RT isnt even close to being done
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    I disagree myself but I don't see us reaching much of a conclusion with this debate as things stand.

    I'm not sure this counts as derailing, but if you want to stop that's fine.
     
    Zam said:
    SNIP
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    Now I am going to stop but most of what you just posted....yeah its clear you arent tracking what I am saying. And not in as you disagree with them but what you are posting vs what I am saying and meaning arent even close to being on the same page.
    I dont know if I am not explaining myself well which is possible or we are just talking past each other because the video and your response shows that we arent seeing the same things by a WIDE margin.

    Now I am not going to get into it but I have....history with abuse. I have seen it and been exposed to it 90% of what you just said does not line up with my personal history with it. Now I have not experienced actual violence but others I know have and that again doesnt line up with what I have observed and have been told after they have gotten out of that situation.
    Basically from what I have seen from Adam and Blake does not track with my personal experience with Abuse which is WHY I have been decrying it because I look at and I see the dialogue, which comes from one ep and doesnt match the dialogue from all other episodes, but not the behaviors that situation would generate.
     
    revanninja said:
    Now I am going to stop but most of what you just posted....yeah its clear you arent tracking what I am saying. And not in as you disagree with them but what you are posting vs what I am saying and meaning arent even close to being on the same page.
    I dont know if I am not explaining myself well which is possible or we are just talking past each other because the video and your response shows that we arent seeing the same things by a WIDE margin.

    Now I am not going to get into it but I have....history with abuse. I have seen it and been exposed to it 90% of what you just said does not line up with my personal history with it. Now I have not experienced actual violence but others I know have and that again doesnt line up with what I have observed and have been told after they have gotten out of that situation.
    Basically from what I have seen from Adam and Blake does not track with my personal experience with Abuse which is WHY I have been decrying it because I look at and I see the dialogue, which comes from one ep and doesnt match the dialogue from all other episodes, but not the behaviors that situation would generate.
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    Sorry, I confess I am having a hard time following some of your statements so we may just be talking passed one another.

    I am deeply sorry to hear that is the case, truly I am. However by the same token someone else who was also a victim of abuse says it matches up perfectly so I feel that counts for something as well.
     
    Zam said:
    Sorry, I confess I am having a hard time following some of your statements so we may just be talking passed one another.

    I am deeply sorry to hear that is the case, truly I am. However by the same token someone else who was also a victim of abuse says it matches up perfectly so I feel that counts for something as well.
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    I can understand that sometimes its hard for me to explain what is perfectly obvious to me to others. I have had people tell me almost an hour after I say something now they get it and I make sense.

    The issue I am having is people are ignoring that abuse generates behaviors to avoid the abuse. And I am not seeing them from Blake. And considering if it wasnt for that one episodes dialogue the idea of Black being abused was never brought up or even hinted at.....that is my problem RT has issues but they so far have created very robust characters and I cant see them just giving Blake an abusive relationship without hints of it.
     
    revanninja said:
    I can understand that sometimes its hard for me to explain what is perfectly obvious to me to others. I have had people tell me almost an hour after I say something now they get it and I make sense.

    The issue I am having is people are ignoring that abuse generates behaviors to avoid the abuse. And I am not seeing them from Blake. And considering if it wasnt for that one episodes dialogue the idea of Black being abused was never brought up or even hinted at.....that is my problem RT has issues but they so far have created very robust characters and I cant see them just giving Blake an abusive relationship without hints of it.
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    I'm not sure that's the case here, but communicating ideas can be difficult regardless.

    I feel its worth noting our knowledge of Blake and Adam's relationship consisted of maybe four minutes of screen time, its obscenely hard to deduce an entire relationship form that especially with the majority of it they were being attacked by murder robots. For all we know Blake did develop the exact sort of behaviours you were talking about, it could be why she was so obedient and quiet until she couldn't take it any more and fled and now doesn't speak of him much, she may not even perceive the relationship as having been abusive despite what an outsider my say ETC. There's lots of explanations in my books and again, other people from abusive relationships say it does match up, so I feel that counts for a lot, and no one persons experiences are the same or identical even in such a horrible situation so there's no reason t think Blake and Adam's situation doesn't resemble and or isn't abusive, it just may not seem that way from certain perspectives even though it does look tat way to me.
     
    Zam said:
    I'm not sure that's the case here, but communicating ideas can be difficult regardless.

    I feel its worth noting our knowledge of Blake and Adam's relationship consisted of maybe four minutes of screen time, its obscenely hard to deduce an entire relationship form that especially with the majority of it they were being attacked by murder robots. For all we know Blake did develop the exact sort of behaviours you were talking about, it could be why she was so obedient and quiet until she couldn't take it any more and fled and now doesn't speak of him much, she may not even perceive the relationship as having been abusive despite what an outsider my say ETC. There's lots of explanations in my books and again, other people from abusive relationships say it does match up, so I feel that counts for a lot, and no one persons experiences are the same or identical even in such a horrible situation so there's no reason t think Blake and Adam's situation doesn't resemble and or isn't abusive, it just may not seem that way from certain perspectives even though it does look tat way to me.
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    The same other side of the coin idea counts here as well. What may look like an abusive relationship may not in fact be one and is just being seen through the worst possible lens one that since Adam is a villain we are predisposed to seeing it as such.
    And those behaviors dont just go away once you are out of that situation they will last for YEARS and it takes a lot of work to break them.
     
    revanninja said:
    The same other side of the coin idea counts here as well. What may look like an abusive relationship may not in fact be one and is just being seen through the worst possible lens one that since Adam is a villain we are predisposed to seeing it as such.
    And those behaviors dont just go away once you are out of that situation they will last for YEARS and it takes a lot of work to break them.
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    It could be he wasn't actually abusive towards her. She left because she disagreed with the more violent tactics being adopted by the White Fang as a whole, not just Adam's increasing disregard for human life. Adam very strongly identifies with his 'cause,' which he believes Blake betrayed (along with him) when she left. I doubt she ever voiced any disagreement with the Cause, so she likely didn't do anything to trigger an episode of abuse until she left him on the train.
     
    RogueInquisitor said:
    It could be he wasn't actually abusive towards her. She left because she disagreed with the more violent tactics being adopted by the White Fang as a whole, not just Adam's increasing disregard for human life. Adam very strongly identifies with his 'cause,' which he believes Blake betrayed (along with him) when she left. I doubt she ever voiced any disagreement with the Cause, so she likely didn't do anything to trigger an episode of abuse until she left him on the train.
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    See now that is possible but there is an issue with that if he never abused her and its only until AFTER she left him their relationship wasnt abusive.

    He is Vengefully angry which is a completely different situation and more lines up with the VERY different behavior in this Episode vs all of his past showings.

    I think you might actually be right and that Adam here is just going off the deep end and lashing out at Blake. But if that is true then it explains ALL of my issues with the whole Blake was abused because she doesnt act like it or even hinted at it from both ends of that relationship.
     
    TheBleachDoctor said:
    I ship it.

    I don't know where people think that the latest episode confirms the ship, though. I mean, they're partners, friends, and they're dear to Blake.
    She could or could not be in a relationship with Yang and she'd be acting the same, really.
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    Agreed
    These are people you trust your life to its going to be an intimate relationship just on that alone. Unless RT flat out states or shows it basing it off that relationship alone isnt going to work.
     
    revanninja said:
    Agreed
    These are people you trust your life to its going to be an intimate relationship just on that alone. Unless RT flat out states or shows it basing it off that relationship alone isnt going to work.
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    It's all shipping goggles. Shipping them together isn't a problem, but yeah, it's not canon as of now.
     
    revanninja said:
    The same other side of the coin idea counts here as well. What may look like an abusive relationship may not in fact be one and is just being seen through the worst possible lens one that since Adam is a villain we are predisposed to seeing it as such.
    And those behaviors dont just go away once you are out of that situation they will last for YEARS and it takes a lot of work to break them.
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    Given what we've seen in the show it looks pretty abusive and possessive to me.
    It took Adam being about to stab someone in the gut for Blake to stop seemingly shaking in terror and try to fight him.

    TheBleachDoctor said:
    I ship it.

    I don't know where people think that the latest episode confirms the ship, though. I mean, they're partners, friends, and they're dear to Blake.
    She could or could not be in a relationship with Yang and she'd be acting the same, really.
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    I think its to do with the narrative framing of the scene, Blake's seeming ex-lover, the use of the word love by the writers ETC, implies that something at least 'could' be there, though I'm not arguing that its currently canon or anything.
     
    Zam said:
    Given what we've seen in the show it looks pretty abusive and possessive to me.
    It took Adam being about to stab someone in the gut for Blake to stop seemingly shaking in terror and try to fight him.

    I think its to do with the narrative framing of the scene, Blake's seeming ex-lover, the use of the word love by the writers ETC, implies that something at least 'could' be there, though I'm not arguing that its currently canon or anything.
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    I disagree but we will just go around and around till Sat so rather then waste effort let us wait for Sat which will most likely show who is right and who is wrong.
     
    Zam said:
    I think its to do with the narrative framing of the scene, Blake's seeming ex-lover, the use of the word love by the writers ETC, implies that something at least 'could' be there, though I'm not arguing that its currently canon or anything.
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    That part in particular I think is what has the shipping goggles on full force. In various types of media(more so in western then eastern) the word love doesn't always donate to romantic love it could be platonic( I love having you around for when shit hits the fan in reference to a brother/sister or close friend, materialistic( I love my most prized possession), societal(I love my country/city etc)
    Given the narrative as pointed out and the fact that Roosterteeth seems to be either poking fun at the fandom with the use of the ship names for team attacks plus the fact that prior to Suns appearance at the dance Blake was dancing with Yang for a bit I could see where it is coming from.

    EDIT: Combine that with the way Adam had phrased what he was going to do to everything she loved yeah.
     
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    revanninja said:
    I disagree but we will just go around and around till Sat so rather then waste effort let us wait for Sat which will most likely show who is right and who is wrong.
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    Fair enough.

    Tython82 said:
    That part in particular I think is what has the shipping goggles on full force. In aot of media(more so in western then eastern) the word love doesn't always donate to romantic love it could be platonic( I love having you around for when shit hits the fan in reference to a brother/sister or close friend, materialistic( I love my most prized possession), societal(I love my country/city etc)
    Given the narrative as pointed out and the fact that Roosterteeth seems to be either poking fun at the fandom with the use of the ship names for team attacks plus the fact that prior to Suns appearance at the dance Blake was dancing with Yang for a bit I could see where it is coming from.

    EDIT: Combine that with the way Adam had phrased what he was going to do to everything she loved yeah.
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    I, think we agree, sorry, but yeah my point was I can see where the shippers are coming from in terms of "This adds weight to the idea" though its hardly a canonising event. Sorry to ask but what does the 'aot of media' mean?
     
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