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RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • "Why are we still here? Just to suffer? Every night, I can feel my arm...the limb I've lost... the comrades I've lost... won't stop hurting... It's like they're all still there. You feel it, too, don't you? I'm gonna make them give back our past."


    PUNISHED YANG
     
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    Eh, we all have characters we'd be more OK with dying and or find more interesting than others. Season 3 Jaune's been consistently good in my books but I still don't find him a terribly interesting or enjoyable character, though at least he isn't taking up lots of screen time this season and when he does it relates to the plot over what feel like disconnected school shenanigans. Him dying, much like Roman, could be seen as a bit of 'reality ensues' given he snuck into Beacon but... I don't see the writers being willing to do that, though I grow less and less confident they won't kill fan/staff favourites with each episode given Penny, Roman and potentially Neo.

    If I'm expecting anyone to die it'd be Ozpin right now, or maybe Qrow/Glynda.
     
    So what do people expect of episode 12 overall? Because I can't really see them being able to save Vale as it is without an insane deus ex machina.

    And given what Ironwood said:
    Ironwood: Someone's done the impossible and gained control of my machines! And that enormous Grimm seems to be fixated on the school. Glynda! Form up the local Huntsmen and establish a safe zone in Vale! We need to evacuate Beacon. Qrow, I'm leaving that to you and my men. I still need to get to my ship.
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    Next season might involve the crew leaving the city and trying to reach safety ala BSG. I mean with the sheer level of bad vibes drawing Grimm in from everywhere (not to mention Not!Smaug spawning more) they won't be able to hold the city,
     
    I'm not sure Vale will fall myself, actually I'm gonna say it survives but is very much changed, both damaged and potentially much less friendly.
     
    You know one ending that just occurred to me, though might not happen, the students and Qrow defeat the dragon but are completely shattered, some possibly seriously wounded or even dead, and then Cinder busts up out of the ground having won her fight or at least is leaving with what she came for, she ignores a Scroll call from Neo and instead just opens up some portals near her minions with the obvious expectation for them to walk through, Adam and Mercury do but Emerald may be more conflicted and Neo (who is damaged but alive) is tearing through the ships wreckage looking for Roman and just throws a dead body through the portal instead, finds a 'possibly dead' Roman, slings him over her shoulder and splits. The at the school once Cinder's left she, or possibly Mercury/Adam leave with the an intimidating one-liner about what comes next and then, Goliath stampede in, their collective weight and strength destroying the mountains Beacon rests on and they all do a combined trumpet attack blasting all the exhausted Hunters away in what amount to tornadoes while obliterating the mountains with their power and clearly making their way to Vale.

    TheBleachDoctor said:
    A complete write off as a kingdom and global power, at any rate
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    That seems fairly probable, though they may get reinforcements form those Hunters Atlas was calling to deal with the spike in Grim activity.
     
    TheBleachDoctor said:
    This is far past needing Hunters. They need another army.
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    While the army has proven useful I think a few dozen Hunters near Glynda's level would be of more use than another army of relatively OK mooks, I mean for comparisons sake there was seemingly a whole platoon taking on a Deathstalker and they were doing OK but Coco can tear through those things, so more Paladins on their side could help though I guess.
     
    Zam said:
    While the army has proven useful I think a few dozen Hunters near Glynda's level would be of more use than another army of relatively OK mooks, I mean for comparisons sake there was seemingly a whole platoon taking on a Deathstalker and they were doing OK but Coco can tear through those things, so more Paladins on their side could help though I guess.
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    The issue is that the kingdom has been overrun, and they need to secure the city. That's impossible with only a small group of Huntsmen and Huntresses. Yes, wherever they go, the Grimm will die, but the Grimm are an endless tide, and don't have to engage the defenders to achieve their goals. If they eradicate most of the population and occupy the 80% of the city that the Huntsmen and Huntresses can't defend because they're babysitting survivors, then the Grimm have won. Vale is now defunct as an inhabitable settlement.

    Yes, they need Huntresses and Huntsmen to deal with not!Smaug, but they need numbers to sweep through the city and secure all areas, fully pushing the Grimm back out of Vale. They can't do that with the remaining students and Huntsmen and Huntresses.

    You don't ask a commando team to capture a city, you ask them to take out priority targets.
     
    TheBleachDoctor said:
    The issue is that the kingdom has been overrun, and they need to secure the city. That's impossible with only a small group of Huntsmen and Huntresses. Yes, wherever they go, the Grimm will die, but the Grimm are an endless tide, and don't have to engage the defenders to achieve their goals. If they eradicate most of the population and occupy the 80% of the city that the Huntsmen and Huntresses can't defend because they're babysitting survivors, then the Grimm have won. Vale is now defunct as an inhabitable settlement.

    Yes, they need Huntresses and Huntsmen to deal with not!Smaug, but they need numbers to sweep through the city and secure all areas, fully pushing the Grimm back out of Vale. They can't do that with the remaining students and Huntsmen and Huntresses.

    You don't ask a commando team to capture a city, you ask them to take out priority targets.
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    While I can see the military being useful for holding reclaimed or retained territory I feel Hunters would be able to tear through the Grim individually easily enough and fast enough that the wouldn't necessarily be 100% needed so much as a boon if that makes sense. As I said, Coco can down absurd numbers of Grim in seconds with ease, she's not as good in a tight civilian filled area but that's what someone like Blake or Glynda are for. I'm not saying more of Ironwood's soldiers wouldn't be helpful but I do feel that they wouldn't be able to take back the city on their own, and may not be strictly necessary to retaining it so much as just very helpful. Though I might, be being uncharitable.
     
    Zam said:
    While I can see the military being useful for holding reclaimed or retained territory I feel Hunters would be able to tear through the Grim individually easily enough and fast enough that the wouldn't necessarily be 100% needed so much as a boon if that makes sense. As I said, Coco can down absurd numbers of Grim in seconds with ease, she's not as good in a tight civilian filled area but that's what someone like Blake or Glynda are for. I'm not saying more of Ironwood's soldiers wouldn't be helpful but I do feel that they wouldn't be able to take back the city on their own, and may not be strictly necessary to retaining it so much as just very helpful. Though I might, be being uncharitable.
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    Huntsmen and Huntresses, students, granted, were able to create a zone of denial to the Grimm during the Breach, but it took the army to fully secure the area (and Glynda to seal the breach itself).

    The Grimm are like water. The Huntsmen and Huntresses can part the waters, but it flows in after they pass. It's not enough to clear an area, but you have to make sure that it stays cleared.

    Plus most Grimm are mook tier, and having a Huntsman or Huntress have to deal with the mooks is a waste of manpower and massive combat asset. In order for Huntsmen and Huntresses to be effective at area clearing, they need an army backing them up so that they can focus on on where they're really needed.
     
    First of all the grim are not an endless flood they are there in large numbers but nothing more then what we saw with the breach so far.

    The real issue is the Dragon grim which can spawn grim so long as its active they will be fighting a numbers game. A game which they WILL lose. So the first order of business is killing the dragon preferably AWAY from the city I wouldnt put it past grim for its body to break apart into smaller grim as it dies.
    Take its wing Left or right doesnt matter kill the wing its going down. Then if need be lure it away from the civies as much as possible. Then kill it and kill it HARD aim for the neck joint to body or my favorite the Belly and legs joint its unarmored and its very nature means damage there limits its mobility even more and if it has ANY semblance of living body functions you gut it there its going to die FAST and BRUTALLY HARD.
    Then you spread your forces around the city encircling it aimed inwards with a spiral pattern into the main city destroying the remaining grim.

    The city is savable as it currently stands it wont be easy but it can be won the issue though is CINDER and the White Fang. Them and the dragon are the real issue the grim can be repulsed and routed because most of them arent intelligent and wont recognize a trap when it happens.
     
    I just thought about something...

    Remember how in the 3rd chapter Qrow destroyed several of the Atlats robots that followed Winter (which made them fight)?

    Well, looking back on it, his actions actually helped the current situation :V
     
    revanninja said:
    First of all the grim are not an endless flood they are there in large numbers but nothing more then what we saw with the breach so far.

    The real issue is the Dragon grim which can spawn grim so long as its active they will be fighting a numbers game. A game which they WILL lose. So the first order of business is killing the dragon preferably AWAY from the city I wouldnt put it past grim for its body to break apart into smaller grim as it dies.
    Take its wing Left or right doesnt matter kill the wing its going down. Then if need be lure it away from the civies as much as possible. Then kill it and kill it HARD aim for the neck joint to body or my favorite the Belly and legs joint its unarmored and its very nature means damage there limits its mobility even more and if it has ANY semblance of living body functions you gut it there its going to die FAST and BRUTALLY HARD.
    Then you spread your forces around the city encircling it aimed inwards with a spiral pattern into the main city destroying the remaining grim.

    The city is savable as it currently stands it wont be easy but it can be won the issue though is CINDER and the White Fang. Them and the dragon are the real issue the grim can be repulsed and routed because most of them arent intelligent and wont recognize a trap when it happens.
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    While most of the Huntsmen and Huntresses are busy trying to save what people they can, which involves dealing with mook Grimm, that Dragon is still flying around, and Grimm are coming in from out of Vale.

    The perimeter has been breached and there's no way to close it up. They have to fight a battle of attrition, and at this point the damage it infrastructure may take decades to fix.

    Either way, Vale has suffered a crushing blow already. It's going to be extremely hard for them to make a comeback.
     
    TheBleachDoctor said:
    Either way, Vale has suffered a crushing blow already. It's going to be extremely hard for them to make a comeback.
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    Especially when everybody else has been hurt or put on the backfoot by Cinder's onslaught.

    This wasn't just about bringing down Vale. She's trying to drag Atlas through the mud in the eyes of the other Kingdoms.

    Even if the leadership of Vacuo and Mistral confirm Atlas' innocence for themselves. The Atlesian armed forces were less than useless in the defense of Vale.

    That lack of confidence by leadership coupled with public distrust neatly ties the hands of the Kingdom which should be playing the part of the cavalry.
     
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    TheBleachDoctor said:
    While most of the Huntsmen and Huntresses are busy trying to save what people they can, which involves dealing with mook Grimm, that Dragon is still flying around, and Grimm are coming in from out of Vale.

    The perimeter has been breached and there's no way to close it up. They have to fight a battle of attrition, and at this point the damage it infrastructure may take decades to fix.

    Either way, Vale has suffered a crushing blow already. It's going to be extremely hard for them to make a comeback.
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    No you are wrong.
    Recall most of the populace has already been evaced out. All we have now are the stragglers, Atlas flesh and blood, Students, and Huntsmen and Huntress in vale which since this was a fighting multi-national tournament is NOT going to be a small number.

    Also the perimeter has been BREACHED not destroyed you close the breach you stop new grim bar dragon based from getting in recall Vale has NATURAL defenses against grim its why the city was built there in the first place. The perimeter can be closed and easily at that send a team like Sun and co to the breach with their goal to HOLD not defeat hold.
    Currently they dont need to clear out all the grim which is another flaw they need to close the breach and keep a safe zone once those 2 are handled they can clear out the grim left in the city at their lesiure.

    Currently the infrastructure hasnt been damaged much the buildings are still standing and the city isnt ablaze. Yes there is damage but not decades worth of damage at most a year or 2.

    The grim Dragon NEEDS to die and fast as well as cinder needs to be stopped or routed out.

    But once again the city is not lost and is still as it CURRENTLY stands savable.
     
    revanninja said:
    -snip-
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    Give it time. It's hard to forget it's been less than an hour since Cinder pulled the reveal.

    Crashing three sizable airships into the city is bound to have started some fires and Glinda can't be everyplace at once doing damage control.

    Vale will still be standing. But I expect it to be pretty seriously crippled.
     
    revanninja said:
    Currently they dont need to clear out all the grim which is another flaw they need to close the breach and keep a safe zone once those 2 are handled they can clear out the grim left in the city at their lesiure.
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    You know some Grimm can fly right

    Those Griffins look like they're gonna keep at it for a while
     
    If Vale is totally lost international communications would be down permanently until the other forces can build a replacement CCT tower.

    From the way Ozpin said "the tower must not fall" I don't believe he thinks Vale is a lost cause yet. No point saving the tower if he plans to abandon the area, the Grimm would just tear it down after they leave.
     
    Triggerhappy said:
    Give it time. It's hard to forget it's been less than an hour since Cinder pulled the reveal.

    Crashing three sizable airships into the city is bound to have started some fires and Glinda can't be everyplace at once doing damage control.

    Vale will still be standing. But I expect it to be pretty seriously crippled.
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    Damaged yes crippled no.
    A city is a BIG place after all and in order to cripple a city you need to do 4 things.
    1. Destroy the populace
    Most of the populace left via bullhead
    2. Destroy its ability to move in or out aka roads
    The Bullheads got out okay we didnt see any crashes and the griffins are an issue but not one they cant deal with
    3. Destroy the buildings
    The city is damaged yes but large sections dont appear to be destroyed or set afire so not completely lost
    4. Destroy its ability to produce a city that cant produce will wither and die
    Vale's production is Hunters and Beacon still currently stands and its students are fighting

    RadioactiveSpoon said:
    You know some Grimm can fly right

    Those Griffins look like they're gonna keep at it for a while
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    You do understand what Safe zone means right?
    So long as they keep the area grim free it will act as a stagging and rest area for hunters to cleanse and reclaim the city. That safe zone will have the highest number of hunters....if a griffin peaked its beak at that zone its going to get it shot off.
    So long as they keep a safe zone and the breach closed the fact griffins can fly doesnt matter. It may not be right away which I am not suggesting it will be but with time the grim will be destroyed and the griffins will either fly off or be killed.
    The hunters will leave and come back to that Safe zone in hunting packs their jobs to supply the safe zone with its needs and to remove the grim threat in the area.
    Considering the fact most grim arent smart it will take 2 weeks at least to clear vale of grim.
    1st week is supplies and checking the wall making sure its secure while killing all grim encountered second week is seek and destroy with complete destruction of the grim being the goal.
    Now that is a rough estimate it may take longer or if the army arrives a lot less.

    This all can happen so long as the city remains more or less in its current state and the dragon is destroyed or run off.

    I DOUBT very much Cinder and her crew are done I doubt very much. What I think is going to happen is a mass transmission of the video mercury is making right before complete destruction of the CTT and destruction of the network aimed at blaming Atlas with a side dish for Beacon.
     
    So, RT just changed their Twitter profile picture to this.

    Ruby shows her serious face.
     
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