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RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • Psyga315 said:
    Technically 3/4ths given Ozpin is sort of corrupt with his "let's not cause a panic" mantra and keeping his cards too close to the chest (even if it makes enemies in the process), Lionheart working with Salem and Ironwood being, well, Ironwood.

    The fourth would be Theodore but until the show focuses on him, jury's out on it.
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    Sorry, I meant lionheart in my first post. I also almost mentioned Ozpin. I should've.
     
    Matrix Dragon said:
    You know, that makes me think of another point that often gets forgotten with these rewrites. These reworks are often 'here's what the show should have done'. And as is usually the case, they forget that RT (or any other studio, honestly, RWBY isn't the only thing that gets these 'rewrites') have finite limits they have to work in. Cinders origin ep already took a fuckton of work to make new material that can't be used anywhere else. The characters, the locations, they're all dead, destroyed or older by the present day. And this rewrite would add at least three more characters that they'd need fight level animation rigs for, plus potentially even more (headmaster, other students, police)?
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    This is a constant source of fustration with me and fans, forgetting capitalism exists. Like I know the Queendom Trailer didn't really show us much but I find the idea people actually thought Queendom was basically a reboot of RWBY absurd, like no company would reboot an ongoing show, that doesn't make sense creatively or money wise.
     
    Teen Spirit said:
    I'm gonna be honest most "Let's Fix" things for RWBY just smack of a person being upset the show didn't go a way they wanted it to rather than it being bad. Like there's valid criticism to be made of RWBY, White Fang could have been handled better, first volumes were messy, Volume 5 had massive pacing issues. But that's not what most people focus on, particularly YouTube people. Most of those types focus on either defending problematic people (Ironwood, Adam) or making fix suggestions that basically come across like entitled fanfics. Like that weird one that made RWBY a mystery detective story or something with no Jayne. That's not fixing it at all
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    1.) Juane a lot of people see as hogging screen time from the 4 main girls.

    2.) the detective story is weird because in a lot of other places they've been pretty cool.

    3.) I get being bothered by entitled fans. That said a lot of people on this thread have gotten murderous when criticism is made against the show no matter how mild, and a lot of it is instinctive defending things they like (the opposition to Weiss having a more slow evolution out of her bigotry/being forced to face it head on boils down entirely to "I like her and don't want her to have a character flaw that ugly so I'm happy it's gone even if the way it was removed boiled down to shitty writing" and a refusal to admit that even good people can have ugly prejudices"). So I am somewhat sceptical of off the cuff rejections (Celtic Phoenix being a creep is fair reason to reject his ideas).

    4.) I also think you can keep someone as a depraved monster while acknowledging the circumstances that made them. I've read one story that delved into Adam's backstory……and still kept it very clear he's a monster who needs to die for what he's done AND that he's an abusive creep (Blake realizes that the "affectionate" moments weren't really so affectionate and Yang's internal reaction is "duh, it was barely above rape.")

    5.) Much as I like what we got for Cinder there's no fucking way the Madame would have had a single malnourished ten year old do all the chores; even the biggest cheapskate is going to need more than one servant for a building that big. Having 3 other servants made sense on that score of nothing else.

    It also incorporates more stuff from the original story (the crashes test is basically the ball from the original story.) Hazel being one of the guys who recruits Cinder gives him more redemption when he saves emerald

    6.) one of the big things about corruption isn't just the law being in the abusers favor; oftentimes it's not but because the abuser is connected they get out of consequences. I watched a Jimmy Saville documentary; people knew what the bastard was doing but they covered for him and he used his connections to duck the consequences.

    Even if Atlas's laws are bullshit Madame using connections as well makes sense
     
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    LordYam said:
    4.) I also think you can keep someone as a depraved monster while acknowledging the circumstances that made them. I've read one story that delved into Adam's backstory……and still kept it very clear he's a monster who needs to die for what he's done AND that he's an abusive creep (Blake realizes that the "affectionate" moments weren't really so affectionate and Yang's internal reaction is "duh, it was barely above rape.")
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    I'm hesitantly curious about what fic that was?
     
    Zam said:
    Wait, didn't commentary imply that Ozpin was kind of forced to let Ironwood in due to his position over inviting him in?
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    Possible, but I have never listen to the commentary audios.
    Don't own the DVDs/BluRays (don't even have a blu ray player)

    LordYam said:
    1.) Juane a lot of people see as hogging screen time from the 4 main girls.

    2.) the detective story is weird because in a lot of other places they've been pretty cool.

    3.) I get being bothered by entitled fans. That said a lot of people on this thread have gotten murderous when criticism is made against the show no matter how mild, and a lot of it is instinctive defending things they like (the opposition to Weiss having a more slow evolution out of her bigotry/being forced to face it head on boils down entirely to "I like her and don't want her to have a character flaw that ugly so I'm happy it's gone even if the way it was removed boiled down to shitty writing" and a refusal to admit that even good people can have ugly prejudices"). So I am somewhat sceptical of off the cuff rejections (Celtic Phoenix being a creep is fair reason to reject his ideas).

    4.) I also think you can keep someone as a depraved monster while acknowledging the circumstances that made them. I've read one story that delved into Adam's backstory……and still kept it very clear he's a monster who needs to die for what he's done AND that he's an abusive creep (Blake realizes that the "affectionate" moments weren't really so affectionate and Yang's internal reaction is "duh, it was barely above rape.")

    5.) Much as I like what we got for Cinder there's no fucking way the Madame would have had a single malnourished ten year old do all the chores; even the biggest cheapskate is going to need more than one servant for a building that big. Having 3 other servants made sense on that score of nothing else.

    It also incorporates more stuff from the original story (the crashes test is basically the ball from the original story.) Hazel being one of the guys who recruits Cinder gives him more redemption when he saves emerald

    6.) one of the big things about corruption isn't just the law being in the abusers favor; oftentimes it's not but because the abuser is connected they get out of consequences. I watched a Jimmy Saville documentary; people knew what the bastard was doing but they covered for him and he used his connections to duck the consequences.

    Even if Atlas's laws are bullshit Madame using connections as well makes sense
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    And again, you keep sounding like the show needs more hard and dark moments......when it really isn't that kind of show.
    This is not Goblin Slayer, this is not Overlord, etc. etc.

    The show made it clear with just the confrontation during The Fall that Adam was a monster, and only his stans held out hope there was more to it. We don't need whispers of rape or near rape.

    Cinder's story did not need more side characters when the major factors are already there. She is Cinderella. Madame is Evil Step Mom and the origin point of the glass heels Cinder struts around in. There are the evil step sisters. And the clock striking Midnight. Heck, Cinder losing parts of herself for power are a twist on the old aspect of the story where it was the step sisters who (at the encouragement/demands of the mother) to hack off parts of their feet just so they could fit in the famous glass slippers. And why would Hazel picking her up make more sense than say Salem herself doing it. I mean, we know through old context clues that Salem personally picked up Tyrian, and Salem would fill the role of "Fairy Godmother" for Cinder.

    And there is no way Ozpin could run an Academy of Beacon's size with just 3 or 4 other staff (Glynda, Port and Oobleck who we see and Peach who we only hear referenced), and yet no one complains or make demands for fixes to that from what I hear.
     
    Pugman said:
    And there is no way Ozpin could run an Academy of Beacon's size with just 3 or 4 other staff (Glynda, Port and Oobleck who we see and Peach who we only hear referenced), and yet no one complains or make demands for fixes to that from what I hear.
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    Clearly we need to fix RWBY by giving it a Professor Qrow spinoff, where Qrow gets roped into teaching a semester at Beacon, so we can properly meet the staff and see how the school is run. Also a scene back on Patch where he's grading papers with Tai.

    It'll be riveting, I'm sure.

    😜
     
    Pugman said:
    And there is no way Ozpin could run an Academy of Beacon's size with just 3 or 4 other staff (Glynda, Port and Oobleck who we see and Peach who we only hear referenced), and yet no one complains or make demands for fixes to that from what I hear.
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    After the Fall added two more professors.

    So we have:
    • Headmaster Ozpin
    • Deputy Headmistress Glinda Goodwitch
      • Combat
    • Peter Port
      • Grimm Studies
      • Military History
    • Bartholomew Oobleck
      • History
      • Legends of Remnant
    • Thumbelina Peach
      • Plant Sciences
    • Ann Greene
      • Stealth and Security
    • Harold Mulberry
      • Weapon Crafting and Upkeep
    That is technically enough faculty to handle the six period class schedule, but I agree there must be more.
     
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    Pugman said:
    Possible, but I have never listen to the commentary audios.
    Don't own the DVDs/BluRays (don't even have a blu ray player)



    And again, you keep sounding like the show needs more hard and dark moments......when it really isn't that kind of show.
    This is not Goblin Slayer, this is not Overlord, etc. etc.

    The show made it clear with just the confrontation during The Fall that Adam was a monster, and only his stans held out hope there was more to it. We don't need whispers of rape or near rape.

    Cinder's story did not need more side characters when the major factors are already there. She is Cinderella. Madame is Evil Step Mom and the origin point of the glass heels Cinder struts around in. There are the evil step sisters. And the clock striking Midnight. Heck, Cinder losing parts of herself for power are a twist on the old aspect of the story where it was the step sisters who (at the encouragement/demands of the mother) to hack off parts of their feet just so they could fit in the famous glass slippers. And why would Hazel picking her up make more sense than say Salem herself doing it. I mean, we know through old context clues that Salem personally picked up Tyrian, and Salem would fill the role of "Fairy Godmother" for Cinder.

    And there is no way Ozpin could run an Academy of Beacon's size with just 3 or 4 other staff (Glynda, Port and Oobleck who we see and Peach who we only hear referenced), and yet no one complains or make demands for fixes to that from what I hear.
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    1.) There's a difference between a ten year old cleaning an entire building by herself and 6 adult teachers managing an entire school; I highly doubt Glynda and Port are on janitor duty. And Madame adopting kids purely for slave labor is entirely in character for her.

    2.) Hazel was more to give him additional redemption in getting Emerald out (he brought Cinder in, Cinder brought Emerald in, so in a roundabout way Hazel got Emerald into this mess.)

    3.) The "near rape" thing was more that after the battle ends Blake realizes that Adam was always a terrible person and didn't just "become bad". Yang's internal reaction is basically "well duh."
     
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    Conservation of detail, and implications are both things that RWBY takes advantage of. I fully believe the Madame had other slaves. We just didn't see them because the flashback focused on Cinder
     
    Matrix Dragon said:
    Conservation of detail, and implications are both things that RWBY takes advantage of. I fully believe the Madame had other slaves. We just didn't see them because the flashback focused on Cinder
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    Maybe. I didn't get that implication though but maybe it was me.

    I mentioned in a pm that fall r3aper did some novelizations that made a few changes but largely kept the main plot. One of the things they did was have the Madame and her daughters put on a facade of being nice.....only to reveal their true colors at the hotel. That was I think an entirely fair extension (Cinder also gets a power moment ripping off her collar during the electrocution).
     
    buli-buli said:
    After the Fall added two more professors.

    So we have:
    • Headmaster Ozpin
    • Deputy Headmistress Glinda Goodwitch
      • Combat
    • Peter Port
      • Grimm Studies
      • Military History
    • Bartholomew Oobleck
      • History
      • Legends of Remnant
    • Thumbelina Peach
      • Plant Sciences
    • Ann Greene
      • Stealth and Security
    • Harold Mulberry
      • Weapon Crafting and Upkeep
    That is technically enough faculty to handle the six period class schedule, but I agree there myst be more.
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    Ok so Peach is obviously Thumbelina because it's her name. The Plant Sciences are because the character comes from barleycorn sprouts.

    Ann Greene and her Stealth/Security focus is clearly Ann Frank, who is known for her diary telling the story of her life during the time of the Nazis and having to hide.

    But Harold Mulberry with Weapon Crafting and Upkeep (who I kind of think would be one of Ruby's fav professors), I can't think who or what they would be based on. The only thing I am finding is "And To Think That I Saw It On Mulberry Street" by Seuss.


    LordYam said:
    1.) There's a difference between a ten year old cleaning an entire building by herself and 6 adult teachers managing an entire school; I highly doubt Glynda and Port are on janitor duty. And Madame adopting kids purely for slave labor is entirely in character for her.

    2.) Hazel was more to give him additional redemption in getting Emerald out (he brought Cinder in, Cinder brought Emerald in, so in a roundabout way Hazel got Emerald into this mess.)

    3.) The "near rape" thing was more that after the battle ends Blake realizes that Adam was always a terrible person and didn't just "become bad". Yang's internal reaction is basically "well duh."
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    1) as others have pointed out, it was a detail that did not need to be shown, since the focus was purely on Cinder herself

    2) That is a very pointless roundabout.

    3) And that still sounds like a pointless exchange of lines. Especially when by the time of Argus and the final fight with Adam Blake had already come to terms with Adam having always been a terrible person. And Yang having that kind of internal reaction is also very pointless.
     
    Pugman said:
    Ann Greene and her Stealth/Security focus is clearly Ann Frank, who is known for her diary telling the story of her life during the time of the Nazis and having to hide.
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    Or she's a reference to Anne of Green Gables. The Beacon staff in general seem to have a particular theme of referencing books written for children.

    The only thing I am finding is "And To Think That I Saw It On Mulberry Street" by Seuss.
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    That seems likely; Oobleck is a Seuss reference, too, after all.
     
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    Epsilon Rose said:
    Clearly we need to fix RWBY by giving it a Professor Qrow spinoff, where Qrow gets roped into teaching a semester at Beacon, so we can properly meet the staff and see how the school is run. Also a scene back on Patch where he's grading papers with Tai.

    It'll be riveting, I'm sure.

    😜
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    They could do it in RWBY Chibi, see if people are into it, then get the manga adaptations to actually take their time in the part that they can fill in as they like instead of rushing though it.
     
    Epsilon Rose said:
    Clearly we need to fix RWBY by giving it a Professor Qrow spinoff, where Qrow gets roped into teaching a semester at Beacon, so we can properly meet the staff and see how the school is run. Also a scene back on Patch where he's grading papers with Tai.

    It'll be riveting, I'm sure.

    😜
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    I would actually enjoy that. RT writing is usually at its best in enclosed environments such as RVB so them confining themselves to Beacon would work to their strengths. Qrow being MC also allows for an easy excuse to leave Beacon for an arc or two at a time in that he gets assigned on an Ozpin mission which could be used to elaborate on the systems in the other Kingdoms without the current issue of the Salem plot making explroing said systems pointless.
     
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    Pugman said:
    But Harold Mulberry with Weapon Crafting and Upkeep (who I kind of think would be one of Ruby's fav professors), I can't think who or what they would be based on. The only thing I am finding is "And To Think That I Saw It On Mulberry Street" by Seuss.
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    That or they have a legendary rivalry, with Ruby espousing the Qrow school of weapon smithing and Mulbury trying to encourage his students to make more practical weapons. Ultimately, every other class ends up like the Food Fight, with a joint monstrosity getting created by the waring weaponsmiths.
     
    Eh, if I was fixing Adam I would take notes from The Expanse and the original Mobile Suit Gundam.

    Also I find it weird the amount of people who want to entirely blame Ironwood for Mantle when Jac Schnee exists. For fuck's sake the man literally caused mass unemployment the exact moment he got the option to rig an election so he didn't need poor people to actually like him.

    Hell up until Volume 7 a good deal of problems in Atlas could be summed up with the letters SDC.
     
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    excalibur2008 said:
    Also I find it weird the amount of people who want to entirely blame Ironwood for Mantle when Jac Schnee exists. For fuck's sake the man literally caused mass unemployment the exact moment he got the option to rig an election so he didn't need poor people to actually like him
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    People point out how Ironwood set up the situation for Jacques to exploit...

    But that's basically blaming the guy making a gun over the guy using the gun. Like, Jacques was the one who ran for council and decided to accept that deal from Watts.
     
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    Psyga315 said:
    People point out how Ironwood set up the situation for Jacques to exploit...
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    Yeah sure the guy who had a monopoly on the thing needed to run everything and was bad enough to be at the top of the repressed minority terrorist group's shitlist becuase of his exploitation habits totally didn't do the majority of that himself /s.

    Pull the other one.

    Seriously that's a another thing I would fix, not playing down the evil rich white dude and thus also screwing over 1/4 of your title characters arc wise.
     
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    Does it matter? The military dictatorship was the helpmate and safeguard of monopoly capital and monopoly capital was the social basis of the miltiary dictatorship, whatever the personal alliance or antagonism of their most prolifically-characterized exponents.
     
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