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RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • Epsilon Rose said:
    That is an explanation of what he is doing. It is not a coherent explanation of why. How is the blockade supposed to protect anyone ?
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    Basically it'd operate on a no one in no one out without explicit confirmation from the Council.

    On paper (and without someone having two seats in a four to five seat council), it could have worked in keeping unwanted intruders out of Atlas while simultaneously keeping those who did get their way into Atlas prior to the lockdown to not have an easy time getting out.

    But as we see in execution, not only did this system have a heavy bias thanks in part to the broken Council system but also the security had dozens of holes in spite of the massive fleet of aircraft blockading the front, most of which are centered on Mantle due to the criminal neglect it got.
     
    Psyga315 said:
    On paper (and without someone having two seats in a four to five seat council), it could have worked in keeping unwanted intruders out of Atlas while simultaneously keeping those who did get their way into Atlas prior to the lockdown to not have an easy time getting out.
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    Yeah, but that was never going to work. Salem's, non-Grimm forces primarily work as covert agents, which a blockade is going to be useless against —smugglers are a thing for a reason— and no other nation has a standing military like Atlas's, so if you want to get paranoid and assume they'll send some type of attack, then you're once again looking at covert ops and the blockade not being helpful.

    As for malfactors getting out, its the same problem in reverse: blockades aren't good at stopping individuals, as evidenced by Weiss making it out with almost no planning. What's more, even if they couldn't get out, they still have two massive, and densely populated, cities to hide in.
     
    Teen Spirit said:
    Did they say the Manga would come out at the same time as the anime? Because if not, I imagine the Anime is starting earlier in June then maybe even late May.
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    Nah. Late June/early July is the typical premier window for Japan's summer anime season. I certainly wouldn't expect it in May as that would heavily overlap with the spring season.
     
    Pugman said:
    Care to give bullet points of this "fix-it" so I don't have to risk my youtube feed?
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    Her own parents sold her as opposed to an organised slavery ring, the madame was abusive to her daughters as well as cinder, she wasn't the only slave in the hotel, several of the slaves are Faunus, the slaves try out for the huntsmen academy but the madame sabotages it via bribery, the daughters beat one of the other slaves to death, so cinder 'escalates', Rhodes is even more useless, showing up with cops to arrest the slaves.
     
    Pugman said:
    Care to give bullet points of this "fix-it" so I don't have to risk my youtube feed?
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    @LordYam had already gave bullet points.
    LordYam said:
    1.) Cinder's from Mantle not Atlas, and her own parents are the ones who sold her (mirroring how in the great depression people might sell their kids, and because the writer felt that Cinder's own parents betraying her would make a much harsher impact.)
    2.) Cinder has three friends who are also servants (since Madame would need more than a single malnourished ten year old). Each of them is modeled after one of Cinderella's friends/elements of the tale. One of them is modeled after the crystal slippers, one of them is modeled after the pumpkin carriage/Cinderella's mice friends, and one's modeled after the willow tree/Cinderella's bird friends. Two of the friends are Faunus as well, to tie in the whole racial stuff in a way that isn't TOO obtrusive
    3.) Madame generally treats her own daughters like shit too, to show the whole cycle of abuse thing. Basically rich people like their brats to take the huntsman exam so they can brag about how they COULD have been Huntsmen. However the daughters didn't HAVE semblances, while the 4 girls did. This increased Madame's abuse (because how DARE a bunch of servants have semblances), and the daughters (not wanting to admit their mom was just an abusive bitch) took the resentment out on them.
    4.) Rhodes was initially hired to be a Huntsman tutor for the daughters, but also secretly mentored the servants as well. The girls try to apply for the academy, but because Madame bribes the headmaster they get rejected. Cinder decides to crash the test and believes that if the girls do really well than the headmaster will reconsider (they don't know about the bribery and lets be honest if this was Ozpin or Theo it probably would have worked.)
    5.) The girls actually do pretty well (out of 15 teams they come in 4th place), while Madame's daughters barely pass. Unfortunately the Headmaster has them dragged off and arrested, while Rhodes is too cowardly to do anything.
    6.) Unfortunately, Madame still feels badly humiliated since word got out, and the fact that they did BETTER than her own kids is a major kick in the teeth. This triggers the confrontation we get in canon; one of Cinder's friends (Iradessa) who embodies the glass slippers, is beaten to death by one of the daughters, which is when shit escalates. Madame tries to bribe Cinder into blaming her friends for Iradessa's death....Cinder decides nope and slaughters all three of them.
    7.) Rhodes comes and arrests them. At this point either a.) the other two either get killed by the police with him or b.) after the fight with Cinder they flee because they realize what Cinder is becoming.
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    Erinyes said:
    Nah. Late June/early July is the typical premier window for Japan's summer anime season. I certainly wouldn't expect it in May as that would heavily overlap with the spring season.
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    Okay so the Con is probaby right after Queendom diverges. Gonna be a weird balancing act.

    Matrix Dragon said:
    Her own parents sold her as opposed to an organised slavery ring, the madame was abusive to her daughters as well as cinder, she wasn't the only slave in the hotel, several of the slaves are Faunus, the slaves try out for the huntsmen academy but the madame sabotages it via bribery, the daughters beat one of the other slaves to death, so cinder 'escalates', Rhodes is even more useless, showing up with cops to arrest the slaves.
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    I don't see how that's better than the backstory we got. It's different but that doesn't make it better, if people want to give Cinder a different story for a fanfic that's one thing, done it myself, but I don't see how that's an improvement over what we got. All it does is if anything take the guilt away from Atlas
     
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    I tend to agree, it's not better than what we got. In fact, it seems to be softening Cinder a bit, by giving her more motivation to kill the woman, and her daughters. (which I suspect is the actual intent)
     
    Sandstar said:
    I tend to agree, it's not better than what we got. In fact, it seems to be softening Cinder a bit, by giving her more motivation to kill the woman, and her daughters. (which I suspect is the actual intent)
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    I felt some of the arguments were fairly made. Parents have sold their own kids (ie in the Great Depression) and it would highlight the whole class thing in atlas. The other servants kinda tied in with other elements of the fairy tale (while two of them being Faunus keeps the subplot from COMPLETELY vanishing), and also imply in a twisted way that cinder wants to recreate what she lost but botched it due to how damaged she is.

    The Ironwoods predecessor being corrupt is also implied to have influenced the decision to appoint ironwood (he seemed to have integrity, which caused them to overlook the control freak tendencies.)

    Another point is that the whole crashing the academy test thing is something that Ozpin or Theo would probably overlook, which adds a layer of tragedy to the thing. Cinder got the short end on that rather than a more fair minded headmaster she got a corrupt scumbag
     
    Matrix Dragon said:
    Her own parents sold her as opposed to an organised slavery ring, the madame was abusive to her daughters as well as cinder, she wasn't the only slave in the hotel, several of the slaves are Faunus, the slaves try out for the huntsmen academy but the madame sabotages it via bribery, the daughters beat one of the other slaves to death, so cinder 'escalates', Rhodes is even more useless, showing up with cops to arrest the slaves.
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    This just sound like it's 80% bleak and edge for the sake of it. Like teenagers beating slaves to death ? And arresting the slaves? I just…the fuck?

    Also I think throwing in Faunus is a mistake. Cinder doesn't care about the Faunus, she used the White Fang as cannon fodder and killed some when they didn't fall in line. So why bother putting it in her backstory?
     
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    The thing I have is that while rwby is good it has been somewhat botched in how they deliver things (the early volumes were clunky as hell and naive)
     
    Teen Spirit said:
    It's different but that doesn't make it better, if people want to give Cinder a different story for a fanfic that's one thing, done it myself, but I don't see how that's an improvement over what we got.
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    You know, that makes me think of another point that often gets forgotten with these rewrites. These reworks are often 'here's what the show should have done'. And as is usually the case, they forget that RT (or any other studio, honestly, RWBY isn't the only thing that gets these 'rewrites') have finite limits they have to work in. Cinders origin ep already took a fuckton of work to make new material that can't be used anywhere else. The characters, the locations, they're all dead, destroyed or older by the present day. And this rewrite would add at least three more characters that they'd need fight level animation rigs for, plus potentially even more (headmaster, other students, police)?
     
    LordYam said:
    I felt some of the arguments were fairly made. Parents have sold their own kids (ie in the Great Depression) and it would highlight the whole class thing in atlas. The other servants kinda tied in with other elements of the fairy tale (while two of them being Faunus keeps the subplot from COMPLETELY vanishing), and also imply in a twisted way that cinder wants to recreate what she lost but botched it due to how damaged she is.

    The Ironwoods predecessor being corrupt is also implied to have influenced the decision to appoint ironwood (he seemed to have integrity, which caused them to overlook the control freak tendencies.)

    Another point is that the whole crashing the academy test thing is something that Ozpin or Theo would probably overlook, which adds a layer of tragedy to the thing. Cinder got the short end on that rather than a more fair minded headmaster she got a corrupt scumbag
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    Yes, but all your points go back to mine: that it softens Cinder, by making her more sympathetic. I don't know why we keep circling around the fact that Cinder's a monster, and why people keep trying to rehabilitate her. Ironwood's predecessor being corrupt kind of blunts the impact of both Theo and Ironwood being corrupt, since that'd be what, 3/4ths of the headmasters of the academies being corrupt? Again, it's different, but not better, or even "fixed" as the title would imply.
     
    I'm gonna be honest most "Let's Fix" things for RWBY just smack of a person being upset the show didn't go a way they wanted it to rather than it being bad. Like there's valid criticism to be made of RWBY, White Fang could have been handled better, first volumes were messy, Volume 5 had massive pacing issues. But that's not what most people focus on, particularly YouTube people. Most of those types focus on either defending problematic people (Ironwood, Adam) or making fix suggestions that basically come across like entitled fanfics. Like that weird one that made RWBY a mystery detective story or something with no Jaune. That's not fixing it at all
     
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    Teen Spirit said:
    if people want to give Cinder a different story for a fanfic that's one thing, done it myself, but I don't see how that's an improvement over what we got.
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    This reminds me of a friend of mines future AU, they started writing it around V3/4 I think so we didn't have tons of details and their backstory for Cinder is radically different an much more direct on the Cinderella parallels via an abusive step mother, and a 'prince'. However said prince, a wannabe Atlesian general who never quite made it but had some inherited wealth, turned out to also be an abusive piece of shit, leading her to flee, leaving behind a child who's a major player in the Future AU.

    Its pure fanfic/speculation and the writer never claims their spin is better than canon or 'fixed' anything, its simply s version of Cinder that fit their stories needs and made use of her inspirations but also subverted them.
     
    LordYam said:
    I felt some of the arguments were fairly made. Parents have sold their own kids (ie in the Great Depression) and it would highlight the whole class thing in atlas. The other servants kinda tied in with other elements of the fairy tale (while two of them being Faunus keeps the subplot from COMPLETELY vanishing), and also imply in a twisted way that cinder wants to recreate what she lost but botched it due to how damaged she is.

    The Ironwoods predecessor being corrupt is also implied to have influenced the decision to appoint ironwood (he seemed to have integrity, which caused them to overlook the control freak tendencies.)

    Another point is that the whole crashing the academy test thing is something that Ozpin or Theo would probably overlook, which adds a layer of tragedy to the thing. Cinder got the short end on that rather than a more fair minded headmaster she got a corrupt scumbag
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    Stop trying to make the show darker than it already has gotten. It does not make the story or writing and better.
    The divide is clear the moment our heroes fly into Mantle.
    Stop trying to shove the faunus subplot into every damn nook and cranny.
    Ironwood having integrity is implied through Ozpin letting him in on the Shadow War against Salem

    Sandstar said:
    Yes, but all your points go back to mine: that it softens Cinder, by making her more sympathetic. I don't know why we keep circling around the fact that Cinder's a monster, and why people keep trying to rehabilitate her. Ironwood's predecessor being corrupt kind of blunts the impact of both Theo and Ironwood being corrupt, since that'd be what, 3/4ths of the headmasters of the academies being corrupt? Again, it's different, but not better, or even "fixed" as the title would imply.
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    Since when is Shade's Theodore corrupt?
     
    Sandstar said:
    Ironwood's predecessor being corrupt kind of blunts the impact of both Theo and Ironwood being corrupt, since that'd be what, 3/4ths of the headmasters of the academies being corrupt?
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    Technically 3/4ths given Ozpin is sort of corrupt with his "let's not cause a panic" mantra and keeping his cards too close to the chest (even if it makes enemies in the process), Lionheart working with Salem and Ironwood being, well, Ironwood.

    The fourth would be Theodore but until the show focuses on him, jury's out on it.
     
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