Remove ads

RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

Reader mode
Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
    Last edited:
  • Staff Post
    • So, this video offers an interesting insight on RWBY discourse, but the major focus is on the critique on Ruby's Lie (it starts at around 19 minutes)


    View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKfZahYI1zY

    Namely, how people are looking at it the wrong way, as it (along with Mantle's treatment) are the foundations of which the Atlas arc rests. The suggestion on how to fix it is a rather roundabout way in that the Mantle conditions needed to be worse and that Ironwood shares some of the blame for that (the other blame would fall on Atlas itself), since then it would justify the kids' need to lie to him, but not make it so bad that it paints Ironwood a villain from day one (since the kids still also need to, you know, work with him).

    But another aspect about the critique is that it brings up how the group is still facing the consequences for this one action, with the events of the end of Volume 7, all of Volume 8, and possibly 9 all weighing on how they're dealing with those very consequences.
     
    I have literally no idea how one could make Mantle's situation notably worse than: "Police state that provides no protection, stolen resources, extraction based economy, punished for self defense, giant hole in the walls with monsters coming in" and not had Ironwood already in his V8: "Leave them to freeze and die to treat them as expendable pawns/hostages" stage without having done the work to get there and necessitating RWBY & Co help just overthrow him off the cuff which would piss his stans off even more. I also find blaming everything on RWBY & Co not telling the unstable dictator everything weirdly fucked up and baseless to day the least.
     
    So another video that does not understand and/or doesn't like how things were portrayed?
    Good to know of another video I can just skip off the cuff and save myself the headache.
     
    Zam said:
    Possibly, I think its mostly just noting that no one, least of all Salem seem to have accounts for Kuo Kuana at all.

    Also, as 'sympathetic sob stories = bad' comes up here at times, this post feels pertinent:

    View: https://sheathandshear.tumblr.com/post/661504824889802752/
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Anyway, back to this, sorry but I found it really interesting as I myself have had contentions with the 'Trauma makes X evil' at times, but the OP makes a great point.

    The issue isn't the trauma in of itself, its having your emotional nerves whipped raw and then never finding or being given the necessary tools to recover and either carrying on in fight or flight mode, or actively becoming worse due to the bodies ingrained instincts born of that treatment.

    It also very much does tie in well with the fact we are a social species and need support and community, but someone who has suffered gravely can often be subconsciously cut off from even a community unaware of this and that leads to isolation, which can let the wounds fester.

    Sometimes they might destroy someone, but other times, they can spawn something else intern.

    All of this ties in very well with RWBY's themes, companionship, mutual support and aid, team work and actually trying to address past trauma and grow. With many villains being people who were hurt and never got the support they needed (Salem), or rejected the support they had in favor of embracing their worst impulses and bad coping mechanisms, (Adam, Ironwood, Mercury is trying to do this) or who had someone weaponize their trauma, (Cinder, Emerald) just to note some examples.


    In this regard, I also get the second point about "Bad people" getting help, I think this is often rooted in a feeling that "Well their victim didn't get it/I didn't get that support", combined with the fact in RL, there legit are some real shitty people who victimize others, play the "I'm sorry" card and get off scot free while their victims are left to pick up the pieces.

    However, the latter is a very specific set of circumstances not applicable to all scenarios, while the former attitude basically says, "No one is allowed to get better, no one is allowed to try and change, until they have suffered sufficiently for my satisfaction."

    I am reminded of that saying about "When an enemy goes to their knees, help them to their feet; for one who slays those who fall to their knees shall find no one will ever surrender to them" Or something to that effect.

    That is not to say the person who did wrong is owed acceptance or forgiveness, in fact I think a lot of people's issues with redemption arcs at times is their habit of placing the onus on a victim to forgive when they don't and shouldn't have to forgive, not just in general, but for the perpetrator to begin doing good.

    That however, doesn't mean that they can't either, its down to the one's affected to make that call not those who were not impacted however.
     
    Pugman said:
    So another video that does not understand and/or doesn't like how things were portrayed?
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    It's also a video about how toxic it is to have people label someone as either a shill or a critic based solely off what they think.

    Zam said:
    I also find blaming everything on RWBY & Co not telling the unstable dictator everything weirdly fucked up and baseless to day the least.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    No, what he's saying is that their decision to risk their trust with Ironwood had longstanding consequences that they're still dealing with throughout the Volumes.
     
    has anyone ever found a post about Mercury picking apart how he ties to his allusion of the god Mercury, or why the CRWBY chose "Black" as part of his name (as Mercury already brings to mind a color)?
     
    Last edited:
    Pugman said:
    has anyone ever found a post about Mercury picking apart how he ties to his allusion of the god Mercury, or why the CRWBY chose "Black" as part of his name (as Mercury already brings to mind a color)?
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    The latter might be just for lack of any better ideas; according to the wiki, it was his original VA who came up with his last name. Though you could suppose it reflects the divide between himself and his father, that his family name is unsuited for his actual theme/dominant color.
     
    Zam said:
    I have literally no idea how one could make Mantle's situation notably worse than: "Police state that provides no protection, stolen resources, extraction based economy, punished for self defense, giant hole in the walls with monsters coming in" and not had Ironwood already in his V8: "Leave them to freeze and die to treat them as expendable pawns/hostages" stage without having done the work to get there and necessitating RWBY & Co help just overthrow him off the cuff which would piss his stans off even more. I also find blaming everything on RWBY & Co not telling the unstable dictator everything weirdly fucked up and baseless to day the least.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    I think they could have spent some more time in mantel, seeing the damage the police state has caused, before heading off to meet Ironwood. Then again, there's a whole heap of things that could probably have been done better with slower pacing and after a certain point you have to start making decisions, because you can't explore everything in depth.

    Zam said:
    All of this ties in very well with RWBY's themes, companionship, mutual support and aid, team work and actually trying to address past trauma and grow. With many villains being people who were hurt and never got the support they needed (Salem), or rejected the support they had in favor of embracing their worst impulses and bad coping mechanisms, (Adam, Ironwood, Mercury is trying to do this) or who had someone weaponize their trauma, (Cinder, Emerald) just to note some examples.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    To an extent, this also ties into Ozma and his failings; even if he regularly works with other people and would seem to have support, he's also very isolated, both because of his immortality and because of how much of the truth he's chosen to keep secret.
     
    Epsilon Rose said:
    I think they could have spent some more time in mantel, seeing the damage the police state has caused, before heading off to meet Ironwood. Then again, there's a whole heap of things that could probably have been done better with slower pacing and after a certain point you have to start making decisions, because you can't explore everything in depth.



    To an extent, this also ties into Ozma and his failings; even if he regularly works with other people and would seem to have support, he's also very isolated, both because of his immortality and because of how much of the truth he's chosen to keep secret.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Sure, I'd love more time to explore things as well, I would have loved to see more of the crater for example. But ultimately a story needs to be in motion and make coherent sense in terms of where characters choose to go and money is always an issue.

    Tis is true, Ozpin never exactly tipped over into outright villain, but some of his decisions no doubt caused harm (Looks at Pyrrha being left on the verge of a breakdown after all of 'that') and as you say its a direct result of him isolating himself from any kind of support and thus no one knows to give him support, and as a result he ends up internalizing and then projecting his trauma outwards in harmful ways.
     
    Zam said:
    Sure, I'd love more time to explore things as well, I would have loved to see more of the crater for example. But ultimately a story needs to be in motion and make coherent sense in terms of where characters choose to go and money is always an issue.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Not to mention CRWBY still remembers the hate and mockery V5 got for "The House".
    I think that is part of why they have tried to keep such a quick pace since then.
     
    Pugman said:
    Not to mention CRWBY still remembers the hate and mockery V5 got for "The House".
    I think that is part of why they have tried to keep such a quick pace since then.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Honestly I wouldn't over-sell how much CRWBY responds to disingenuous bullshit like that, yeah they had Nora make a crack about it cos they probably would have liked to do a bit more too if one asshole hadn't been stealing resources, but it thematically fit with the cast being back under Ozpin's leadership becoming passive and easy to lure into Cinder's trap.
     
    Pugman said:
    Not to mention CRWBY still remembers the hate and mockery V5 got for "The House".
    I think that is part of why they have tried to keep such a quick pace since then.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Except the problem with "The House" wasn't just because it was a house, but because the plot basically forced RNJR+WY+QO to be sidelined to that house just so that Blake and the villains' stories could catch up, a consequences of splitting up the cast to have their own subplots but not spreading that focus equally. Something they tried to fix when they repeated that with later moments that would have been called "the house", such as giving the Brunswick farm a terrifying justification for their lethargic stay, exploring more of Argus, giving the cast something to do at the Schnee manor, etc.

    It wasn't because "the plot moved slow", it was that the plot moved too fast and had to force the characters to wait for everyone else to reach them.

    The other reason the House got so much flack in Volume 5 was because that's all we got out of Mistral aside from Haven. You're telling me you have this entire city where it has this two-faced "full of culture and richness but it hides a seedy underbelly" nature and the most interaction that the heroes had with it is "oh, Qrow took a stroll and discovered some black market Huntsmen are dead"?
     
    Last edited:
    Beauty and the bee-st

    View: https://twitter.com/AG_Nonsuch/status/1511745414139359239


    Bee Opening 4

    View: https://yangfanbb.tumblr.com/post/680894732527976448/love-me-some-volume-4-intro-to-show-blake-still


    Treasure of Then and Now

    View: https://strqyr.tumblr.com/post/680989704436514816/but-thats-all-right-ill-be-just-fine-im-not



    EDIT:
    Psyga315 said:
    Except the problem with "The House" wasn't just because it was a house, but because the plot basically forced RNJR+WY+QO to be sidelined to that house just so that Blake and the villains' stories could catch up, a consequences of splitting up the cast to have their own subplots but not spreading that focus equally. Something they tried to fix when they repeated that with later moments that would have been called "the house", such as giving the Brunswick farm a terrifying justification for their lethargic stay, exploring more of Argus, giving the cast something to do at the Schnee manor, etc.

    It wasn't because "the plot moved slow", it was that the plot moved too fast and had to force the characters to wait for everyone else to reach them.

    The other reason the House got so much flack in Volume 5 was because that's all we got out of Mistral aside from Haven. You're telling me you have this entire city where it has this two-faced "full of culture and richness but it hides a seedy underbelly" nature and the most interaction that the heroes had with it is "oh, Qrow took a stroll and discovered some black market Huntsmen are dead"?
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    And exploring a "seedy underbelly" is not really the kind of focus this show goes for.
    If RNJR went exploring and got into shit with The Spiders that would of been another thread the writers would have to balance on their plate.
    And since when was Qrow looking for "Black Market Huntsmen"? All he was looking for were other Huntsmen he had worked with in the past who he felt he could trust to have their backs in a fight and not have loose lips. Not to mention said people were apparently well enough known that Hazel and Tyrian targeted them as potential threats to their Haven plans.
     
    Last edited:
    Pugman said:
    And since when was Qrow looking for "Black Market Huntsmen"?
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    He mentions that the council "doesn't own every huntsmen in the kingdom" which implies that these aren't officially sanctioned Huntsmen.

    And it doesn't even have to be a "seedy underbelly" they could explore. They could just explore the upper crust and give them something to do.
     
    Reader mode
    You must login or register to reply here.
    Remove ads
    Back
    Top