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RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • Richardson said:
    What if Team RWBY as a WHOLE goes rogue after busting Yang out, and get unofficial backing from Ozpin as Ironwood goes full dictator and steadily makes the situation worse with his Hard Man craziness? Nora's rant at the start of the season being actually for her friends, not her team. With Qrow and Raven taking over as the mentors as they go undercover to try and stop things. With Penny possibly getting hacked and driven nuts, Vale potentially coming under a military occupation, and team RWBY being seperated from JNPR by percieved evil on their part, it fulfills all the things going on in the titles.

    Plus, you know... Red vs. Blue.
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    Not sure I'm sold on mentor Raven, kind of hope she's a real villain. But that would be really neat and a nice way to kick of proper adventures and finally get out of school. No more need for somewhat contrived rascally kid antics to get them out of school and to the location of the next adventure. They would be on the road of adventure 24/7.
     
    Sorry there was a problem with my post due to the spoilers being weird, hopefully this fixes it.

    Shockz said:
    Not just the cameras. Judging by RWB's reaction, everyone saw Yang breaking Mercury's leg while he was helpless.
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    Oh I completely agree with you that everyone say it, though unless Neo's/whoever illusions can control senses I am a bit doubtful Yang didn't hurt Mercury. Plus once his Aura comes back I imagine he'll be able to heal it pretty easily.

    Shockz said:
    Why did Ozpin and co. believe (or at least say they believed) Pyrrha is "next in line" to be the Fall Maiden? I could understand if they just picked her for the Aura-transfer experiment because they thought she was the best choice for the job, but that phrasing implies that there's a reason they thought she'd be the one if the power had been transferred normally. Which would imply that Amber knew Pyrrha, or at least knew of her...the former's probably out since Pyrrha didn't recognize her, but since Pyrrha's pretty famous and Amber appears to be roughly the same age or not much older, it's possible Amber saw her as a role model/idol.

    Or maybe it's just a plot hole/writing error.
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    My theory is that they believe to be the sort of person that the powers would travel to naturally if the process was randomised and that's why they think she's next in line.
    But that is just a theory.
     
    Shockz said:
    Not just the cameras. Judging by RWB's reaction, everyone saw Yang breaking Mercury's leg while he was helpless.

    Okay, possible plot hole here, though it might just be me misinterpreting something:

    Why did Ozpin and co. believe (or at least say they believed) Pyrrha is "next in line" to be the Fall Maiden? I could understand if they just picked her for the Aura-transfer experiment because they thought she was the best choice for the job, but that phrasing implies that there's a reason they thought she'd be the one if the power had been transferred normally. Which would imply that Amber knew Pyrrha, or at least knew of her...the former's probably out since Pyrrha didn't recognize her, but since Pyrrha's pretty famous and Amber appears to be roughly the same age or not much older, it's possible Amber saw her as a role model/idol.

    Or maybe it's just a plot hole/writing error.

    EDIT:
    Alternatively, maybe Qrow was lying about the selection being completely random if the previous Maiden's last thoughts aren't about a qualified candidate.
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    I think Ozpin et al. were talking who ought to be the next guardian, and since they were planning to artificially pick someone to be the next maiden, whoever they found most suitable for the role would take up the mantle (assuming their plan works).

    EDIT2:
    Interesting theory someone pointed out on Reddit:

    Summer Rose's official status is missing, presumed dead, and nobody claims to have any idea what happened to her. Her former teammate is part of a top-secret organization dedicated to keeping the Maidens secret, despite being an unreliable alcoholic asshole. Coincidence?

    Furthermore, what exactly is Qrow so damn bitter about? Maybe the fact that he's complicit in faking and/or covering up the death of one of his teammates, and in turn being partially responsible for (going by what Yang said about Taiyang) the near-total breakdown of another teammate?

    Summer being one of the Maidens would admittedly be a bit on the nose. Though maybe she was actually the Spring or Winter Maiden. :V
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    Interesting theory, though personally I think Summer Rose is actually dead. Can't remember whether it's been explicitly confirmed or not, but all the characters act like they believe it, as far as I can tell.

    Renewal said:
    Next most likely is an illusion around the entire arena, which would hide the real series of events (which Yang and Mercury both saw), and show everyone else the illusion with the same result--Mercury with a broken leg--though this makes the illusionist a lot more powerful, being able to full an arena's worth of people and cameras.
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    If the illusions are psychic in nature, perhaps. But in the real world, while there's no such thing as ESP, holograms (or rather, volumetric displays) are theoretically possible (at least, they don't violate the laws of physics).

    I don't see why illusions that "fool cameras" need to be more powerful, when cameras haven't even dispelled stage magic on Earth, much less semblances on Remnant.
     
    mistakenot said:
    If the illusions are psychic in nature, perhaps. But in the real world, while there's no such thing as ESP, holograms (or rather, volumetric displays) are theoretically possible (at least, they don't violate the laws of physics).

    I don't see why illusions that "fool cameras" need to be more powerful, when cameras haven't even dispelled stage magic on Earth, much less semblances on Remnant.
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    Eh, it was mostly in reference to the arena full of people. I'd generally rate any mental power that affects a lot of people at once as more powerful than an individually-targeted one, simply because you can pull off a helluva lot more with the former; one of the extreme examples is Aizen from Bleach. Affecting the cameras is just a bonus to the illusionist's power, since we don't exactly know the nature of their illusions.

    Though you do bring up holograms as an alternative I hadn't thought of. I just naturally jumped to illusions since we have Neo as a known illusionist (though Emerald might be another possibility if Neo wasn't in play in the match against Coco and Yatsuhashi).
     
    Barnaby said:
    My number one nitpicky problem with the end was in showing Yang kneecapping Mercury, it also showcased the limitations of Poser. Illusion or not, everyone watching saw Mercury with not enough aura to defend against Yang's shotgun-fist as it shattered bone, but he still had enough aura to prevent any blood, bruising, or even any damage to his pantleg. Kinda took me out of the scene. Still though, I'm glad there's some more bite with combat now.
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    Given that aura = soul, and depleting your aura doesn't turn you into soulless Grimm, I would speculate that it actually refers to some sort of critical limit, like a phase transition from solid to liquid: just like how raising the temperature to 0 °C doesn't instantly melt ice, reducing someone's aura level to zero doesn't mean they're instantly a squishy meatbag, but any further damage is increasingly serious. This jibes with how Weiss didn't die in the previous episode, and perhaps even how Jaune survived without unlocking his aura (though that could also just refer to more advanced aura usage).

    But I do agree that some blood would have helped sell the scene.

    Renewal said:
    Eh, it was mostly in reference to the arena full of people. I'd generally rate any mental power that affects a lot of people at once as more powerful than an individually-targeted one, simply because you can pull off a helluva lot more with the former; one of the extreme examples is Aizen from Bleach. Affecting the cameras is just a bonus to the illusionist's power, since we don't exactly know the nature of their illusions.

    Though you do bring up holograms as an alternative I hadn't thought of. I just naturally jumped to illusions since we have Neo as a known illusionist (though Emerald might be another possibility if Neo wasn't in play in the match against Coco and Yatsuhashi).
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    My main point is that illusions don't have to be psychic. Real life illusions are all physical effects, after all, and Neo's illusions could be based on optical properties as well.

    But yeah, the matter of who cast the illusion, or which version of events is correct, is an open question. Can Neo cast illusions at a distance? What is Emerald's semblance, anyway?
     
    mistakenot said:
    But yeah, the matter of who cast the illusion, or which version of events is correct, is an open question. Can Neo cast illusions at a distance? What is Emerald's semblance, anyway?
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    We know Neo's illusions work at a distance based on the Mech fight in Volume 2, when she and Roman had time to run from where the illusion was set up to a Bullhead parked somewhere behind Team RWBY in less than fifteen seconds. Well, assuming it's just illusions and doesn't have some other component to it (Note that in the same fight she doesn't just make an illusion of herself and Roman, but also keeps from disturbing the mist that was still hanging around from the Freezerburn combo attack earlier)
     
    mistakenot said:
    My main point is that illusions don't have to be psychic. Real life illusions are all physical effects, after all, and Neo's illusions could be based on optical properties as well.

    But yeah, the matter of who cast the illusion, or which version of events is correct, is an open question. Can Neo cast illusions at a distance? What is Emerald's semblance, anyway?
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    Oh yeah, definitely true. I guess maybe I should've used the term 'hallucination' instead? My default imagining of illusions is in this case is purely mental ones like Aizen's, when physically-based illusions do exist.
     
    mistakenot said:
    Given that aura = soul, and depleting your aura doesn't turn you into soulless Grimm, I would speculate that it actually refers to some sort of critical limit, like a phase transition from solid to liquid: just like how raising the temperature to 0 °C doesn't instantly melt ice, reducing someone's aura level to zero doesn't mean they're instantly a squishy meatbag, but any further damage is increasingly serious. This jibes with how Weiss didn't die in the previous episode, and perhaps even how Jaune survived without unlocking his aura (though that could also just refer to more advanced aura usage).

    But I do agree that some blood would have helped sell the scene.
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    Yeah, I get that. I was more pointing out how odd the juxtaposition was of a shattered leg and the sterility of everything else.
     
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    So when Yang was punching Mercury, there was kind of a weird effect on him



    Is this supposed to signify his aura hitting zero or the illusion kicking in?
     
    BYapes said:
    Man...if anything happens to preempt next week's episode... :o
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    Yeah, about that...

    RWBY Chapter 6 and Other News | Rooster Teeth
    Article:
    Chapter 6 is the last episode of the year, but fret not! Next week (12/19) we'll be doing a special RWBY Cast & Crew live stream! A bunch of us are gonna hop on the podcast set, answer questions, give away gifts, and not talk about spoilers. You hear that? Nothing about spoilers! The week after that (12/26) will be our third World of Remnant, followed by Chapter 7 the week after (1/2).
     
    So something that occurred to me if the powers of the 4 seasons are apparently pretty much magic then they should be able to change things in ways that are completely unique.

    Now if I had to guess the Schnee family semblance is probably due to the actions of one of the maidens (Most likely winter for obvious reasons). The reasons for this I am guessing are either because one maiden wanted to leave a bit of a legacy so she used her power to make a heritable semblance in her family or the result of someone who got the power via the wrong means and used it to cement her bloodline's strength in an attempt to create a ruling dynasty.
     
    Sinsystems said:
    So something that occurred to me if the powers of the 4 seasons are apparently pretty much magic then they should be able to change things in ways that are completely unique.

    Now if I had to guess the Schnee family semblance is probably due to the actions of one of the maidens (Most likely winter for obvious reasons). The reasons for this I am guessing are either because one maiden wanted to leave a bit of a legacy so she used her power to make a heritable semblance in her family or the result of someone who got the power via the wrong means and used it to cement her bloodline's strength in an attempt to create a ruling dynasty.
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    I could explain why they have such a spellcaster like Semblance instead of the more singular themed powers most Semblances have.
     
    Mook said:
    I could explain why they have such a spellcaster like Semblance instead of the more singular themed powers most Semblances have.
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    My thoughts exactly, it could be the reason for their naming theme. They are paying homage to the family's founder.

    Also it looks like we now have at least one of Cinder's main goals, which can probably help us understand her over all plan.
     
    Sinsystems said:
    Also it looks like we now have at least one of Cinder's main goals, which can probably help us understand her over all plan.
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    Indeed. For example, after Pyrrha and Mercury's sparring session in Volume 2, there was that whole bit with the needle where Team EVIL was talking about her Semblance, and Cinder said to add her to the list. Imma go out on a ledge and assume that that wasn't some list of 'Semblances we want to steal', but rather 'Possible Maiden candidates'.
     
    Azecreth said:
    Indeed. For example, after Pyrrha and Mercury's sparring session in Volume 2, there was that whole bit with the needle where Team EVIL was talking about her Semblance, and Cinder said to add her to the list. Imma go out on a ledge and assume that that wasn't some list of 'Semblances we want to steal', but rather 'Possible Maiden candidates'.
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    Yeah and odds are Cinder's plans involve getting to the vault before Ozpin and his crew can do the thing and get her hands on the rest of the power.
     
    Also on the subject of the Maidens it occurs to me that there is the possibility that the whole incident with Yang at the end of the episode was part of Cinder's plans to eliminate potential maiden candidates. Now assuming that she thought Yang was being considered (Not that hard to assume due to Yang's power coupled with her connection to Qrow who is a member of the Order) then she'd need a good way to knock her out of the running. However simply beating her in a fight won't cut it so instead she set up the whole incident with Mercury to ruin Yang's reputation on a public enough scale so that she could never be chosen.
     
    firefossil said:
    My assumption has been that the authoritarian regime was one of those Evils of Free Will type groups, who believed that destroying individual expression in favor of uniformity would eliminate conflict, which in turn would neuter the Grimm as threats. This of course laughably failed.
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    Yeah, that's probably right. Still, I'm curious why there isn't even more bread and circuses. The way to destroy choice is less through Orwellian fascism, and more through Huxley-esque deluges of distraction. People can't choose to not feel bad, but they can distract themselves from it. Qrow drinks, presumably not to feel good, but less bad. Tournaments are a common form of entertainment, and some of those fighters, like Pyrrha, go on to be commercial personalities for people to vicariously live through. Fashion is so important that even the promise of death and destruction from grimm don't register as half as important. By making sex, drugs, food, drink, and entertainment freely available and in excess, a population can be kept passive. Definitely not happy, but too numb to feel bad.

    That's the kind of evil government I want to see. When are we getting more of that?
     
    So looking past the reveal of the Maidens and what happened with Yang there are some ratjer unsettling implications regarding Penny.

    Namely the part where Ironwood said that the tech Altas developed allows them to "capture and place a person's aura in a vessel" which implies that the process used to create Penny involved extracting the soul from a living person and placing it in a robot body.

    This would explain why Penny is so human like, the form is probably to help the aura latch on to the vessel and her personality is the result of the aura acting on the form rather than something programmed in.

    However this also means that odds are Cinder knows about the tech since she has access to Penny's blueprints. Meaning it wouldn't be too much of a stretch for her to figure out how Ozpin's group plan on transfering the Maiden's power.
     
    Sinsystems said:
    However simply beating her in a fight won't cut it so instead she set up the whole incident with Mercury to ruin Yang's reputation on a public enough scale so that she could never be chosen.
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    Actually I assume what just happened was the backup plan. No more and no less. Yang is disqualified, and probably arrested, Cinder's team gets to advance with someone else in Mercury's place. They win they win, they lose they still win.

    Really the only person who might be able to shed doubt on what just happened is Coco, which would probably require someone to voice suspicion of foul play in her presence, and it's questionable if she even remembers the last few seconds of her fight.
     
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