RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
 
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So I'm annoyed we still don't have a kiss but this is pretty good stuff on it's own.


Nah, the Big Damn Kiss will be for the climax, either just before the final battle or at the end of a volume after a big victory. Also I didn't noticed Ruby and Weiss looking that them, probably thinking "are they finally going to kiss, or what?" :V
 
so for the future
I get the feeling Ruby and Cinder will end up working together in some degree. Neither Ruby's group nor Cinder herself can allow Ironwood to get what he wants.
Also I so want Winter to be saved. Poor girl does not deserve this. Harriet on the other hand deserves an ass kicking more than anyone else not named James Ironwood.
 
No, no, let them kill Adamwood. I just find it funny that now he's the main villain when the actual main villain could just come back within a few hours.

Well yeah, that's what happens when you have more then one bad guy. And Adamwood... he does have a lot in common with that shitstain, doesn't he? Right down to grooming a young woman into being an obedient underling that's terrified of him after the mask slips.
 
Well yeah, that's what happens when you have more then one bad guy. And Adamwood... he does have a lot in common with that shitstain, doesn't he? Right down to grooming a young woman into being an obedient underling that's terrified of him after the mask slips.
Don't forget being obsessed over a girl who's about half his age.
 

Potential counter-point
do we actually KNOW that Watts is Atlesian, born and raised?


The way he talked about "suffering" when tearing down Cinder made it seem like he actually does empathize with her on that front and has genuine experience. Perhaps not being recognized for his achievements is such a sore spot for him because he was born in Mantle and had to work his way up to Atlas step by painful step while having to work ten times harder than any of the born Atlesians while getting ten times less respect for his work.


Basically he walks, talks and sounds like an Atlesian due to living and working there so long and adopting their mannerisms to fit in, and is more capable than anyone born in the city of dreams (except maybe Pietro) yet despite all that he was still treated as lesser because of his low class background.


Could make him seem a heck of a lot less petty.



Another interesting thing about him this episode is that he seems genuinely worried and maybe a bit sorrowful at the idea that all the other members of Salem's circle have died. I don't think he knows that Tyrian had left after all, and he seems to respect Hazel at least somewhat. And when Neo makes her call he seems genuinely hopeful that someone else might have survived.

Honestly this episode made him a lot more interesting to me in a lot of ways. I really hope we get to learn his background now.
 
Oz didn't obliterate Cinder at beacon because
1 risk breaking the vault
2 where would the maiden powers go next
3 Ozpin is a pretty tarnished figure by that point maybe it was time for a change
4 Ozma is so old and has been killed so many times getting killed and temporally side tracked with a new soul buddy didn't rate as a high pain in the ass enough for Ozma to dip into his savings


Oscar was the one who convinced Ozma this time this city was worth the cost
 
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Oz didn't obliterate Cinder at beacon because
1 risk braking the vault
2 where would the maiden powers go next
3 Ozpin is a pretty tarnish figure by that point maybe it was time for a change
4 Ozma is so old and has been killed so many times getting killed and temporally side track with a new soul buddy didn't rate as a high enough for Ozma to dip into his savings


Oscar was the one who convinced Ozma this time this city was worth the cost
Temporary sidetrack for him, devastating event for everyone who lost their friends to the Fall of Beacon.
 
Temporary sidetrack for him, devastating event for everyone who lost their friends to the Fall of Beacon.

And again, he was right under everyone trying to protect the school. If he made with the nuke option AND managed to have enough time to cast it without Cinder shanking him, then he would of blown up the school and everyone near it.
Weiss, Velvet, Coco, Sun, Neptune, Neon, Flynt, etc. etc.
 
How best do you defend Beacon? You nuke it and kill everyone defending it, then let the bad guys take it over.

Of course, Generalissimo Ironwood was the one who came up with this masterpiece of a plan.
 
More visual story telling goodness

One side, people who haven't questioned Ironwood for even a second and keep following him without doubt.
Other side, we have the guy who's been doubting for the whole volume, the woman who tried to convince JYR not to go inside the whale not because of orders, but because she cared (after all, quoting Vine, she was trying to convince herself they were traitors but didn't really believe it) and the one who just like Marrow, is doubting him and is completely terrified of him. All of them looking worried.
Yeah, I have a pretty good idea about who's defecting.

link



Also background details



and story beats/character moments

link

I'm getting strong Thor III: Ragnarok vibes from this. Atlas isn't a place, it's a people.





link


Ever since I first saw and heard that "It's almost sad" moment from Emerald in volume 3 while she was forlornly gazing on the consequences her actions had on other people I've been convinced that she would change sides at some point. It's nice to see that moment echoed so effectively here, especially with the crowds department and facial animations peeps strutting their stuff to really drive home the human element of this tragedy.


And man the crowds team is really killing it this volume huh? Well some of the battle scenes looked a bit empty but I can understand why those scenes would stretch them to their limit. But man if they can do this sort of stuff now then I really hope they go all out if we ever see Menagerie again. I feel like now they could really have done Sun's "it's so cramped!" line some real justice.





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Ren's little smile there makes me think we're about to see the first big steps towards reconciliation with Ozpin.


Luimnigh
link


Ironwood: Why do I hear boss Bond music?
 
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Emerald
The little thief that got in over her head is probably the one who will save the people. I mean Aladdin came from nothing, got caught up in something bigger, and became the one saving the day.
Oscar even brings up that they will need her.
 
God I absolutely loved the work on the facial expressions
in that scene with those poor Military Huntsmen having to deliver bad news to an increasingly unhinged Ironwood. Yeah at this point I think the officers at the base and such have become pretty damn aware that Ironwood murdered Sleet just for talking back to him. No one is safe.



link
 
Let's look at Salems strategy for Atlas, because really, it's quite amazing how simple it is.

Step one: Send Watts and Tyrian in to make trouble in Mantle. This is just softening the ground a little for her and stressing Ironwood out by making him focus on shit he doesn't really care about. The thing is, if it failed? Wouldn't hurt Salem any.

Bonus Step: Manifest in Ironwoods office and fuck with his head. This wasn't part of the plan, just a target of opportunity. But it worked brilliantly, as Ironwood proceeds to freak out, turtle up, abandon Mantle (Important for later), and turn on his allies. Which left them hilariously unprepared for steps two and three.

Step Two: Show up with Monstra and lots of Grimm. Big, flashy, gets attention. As an added benefit, the results on the bonus step mean that Ironwood is more focused on Penny than sending the fleet out to engage the Whale. Which is good, because everyone is looking at Monstra when...

Step Three: The Grimm river eats through the ground to Mantle, then launches itself onto Atlas, enabling Salem to take down the shields. No one was watching Mantle at the best of times, and she'd drawn even more attention away with the last three steps. Plus, who expects a river to jump up and attack a flying island?

Step Four: Monstra makes landfall. If the river couldn't penetrate the shields, I suspect Monstra would have pressed the attack anyway, but now it can directly crashland on Atlas's farmland, which not only gives it plenty of space to puke up grimmstuff, it means that Atlas is SCREWED without foreign aid.

Step Five: Puke up grimmstuff everywhere, zerg rush with every monster Salem can create.

With the exception of Monstra, none of the steps in her plan were critical. If something went wrong, she could abandon that step. And I'm still not entirely sure she didn't have a Monstra failsafe. Hell, the river of Grimm could probably do if need be.

Really, she's GOOD at this. Ironwood was outmatched before the fight even began, and that's before you take into account his issues.
 
This episode was so beautiful with all those sweet character moments though.
Agreed, there was also a nice addition to that first post:


Also some real life stuff to make sure we keep our perspective
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Much obliged for the historical reference, oof.

Their standards are their own and not universal, if CRWBY wanted this to be a surprise they couldn't do more than be a little vague about Long Memory having extra powers. What's more those people are idiots, because we saw that it takes time to charge up that attack, time Oscar only had because of Hazel, which Ozpin didn't have. They are also arrogant for presuming to know how it works in regards to releasing controlled bursts, the time and given we can't even say for sure if the bubble and the beam come from the same source given they don't even share a color scheme, so all in all thumbs down.

e's not entirely wrong though
Um, spoilers?

Eh, it really depends on how you want to go about it. But I wouldn't say it's a plot hole. Could do with a bit more explanation maybe.

The thing is that the cane contained so much power there's really only one objective that power would have been used for: stopping Salem.

The problem with that, of course, is finding the balance on using said power. If you're going into situations where you say "oh, I'll only use a little here or a little there" it could be very difficult to store up that power if you're always finding excuses to use it. It's very unlikely that was Ozpin's first time facing down a maiden and on a balance it may have been better for him to die rather than waste that power on Cinder.
Plus on that front we know Ozpin was always wary of taking action, his passive nature was consistently called out and used against him throughout the series, so even if he could tap into it, chances are he'd keep thinking he needs to save it for a greater storm coming.
You might like this:

How best do you defend Beacon?
Um, spoilers?
 
Potential counter-point
do we actually KNOW that Watts is Atlesian, born and raised?

The way he talked about "suffering" when tearing down Cinder made it seem like he actually does empathize with her on that front and has genuine experience. Perhaps not being recognized for his achievements is such a sore spot for him because he was born in Mantle and had to work his way up to Atlas step by painful step while having to work ten times harder than any of the born Atlesians while getting ten times less respect for his work.

Basically he walks, talks and sounds like an Atlesian due to living and working there so long and adopting their mannerisms to fit in, and is more capable than anyone born in the city of dreams (except maybe Pietro) yet despite all that he was still treated as lesser because of his low class background.

Could make him seem a heck of a lot less petty.

Another interesting thing about him this episode is that he seems genuinely worried and maybe a bit sorrowful at the idea that all the other members of Salem's circle have died. I don't think he knows that Tyrian had left after all, and he seems to respect Hazel at least somewhat. And when Neo makes her call he seems genuinely hopeful that someone else might have survived.

Honestly this episode made him a lot more interesting to me in a lot of ways. I really hope we get to learn his background now.
This is a very good point and:
It could actually give some added context to Watts's statement regarding Mantle not being upgraded. So far all the '(seemingly) Atlesian born characters have either not cared about Mantle's security or not noticed its defineices are a problem, even Pietro, despite knowing about the lack of updates didn't seem to realize it was causing a problem or would be exploited. Meanwhile Jac & Ironwood don't even need to be named.

Speaking of Watts:
 
This is a very good point and:
It could actually give some added context to Watts's statement regarding Mantle not being upgraded. So far all the '(seemingly) Atlesian born characters have either not cared about Mantle's security or not noticed its defineices are a problem, even Pietro, despite knowing about the lack of updates didn't seem to realize it was causing a problem or would be exploited. Meanwhile Jac & Ironwood don't even need to be named.

Speaking of Watts:


That could also tie into the show's overall narrative that "Strength Will Not Bring Victory"
 
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