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RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • Dragoon said:
    Emerald sure earned that trust fast considering she got her guns back by the mansion.
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    If Emerald really wanted to leave, I would think she would have done so already. Like, her semblance is literally making people see what she wants them to see and Oscar spent two minutes talking about the cane, fully taking up JRY's attentions. So that probably helps.

    LordDarthYoda said:
    Yeah I want to see the "But Ironwood isnt the bad guy here!" justification now.
    Fully expecting them to topple Ironwood have some breathing room only for pissed Salem to rise up "DID YOU ASSHOLES FORGET WHO THE BIG BAD IS AROUND HERE?!
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    Just watch, the argument is gonna be that this is out of character for him, that he's gone Stupid Evil for no reason, that the writers are hacks, etc. Nevermind the fact that Ironwood has always seen Mantle as disposable, that he's been increasingly unhinged and consumed by fear in the last volume and a half, and that he's always thought that sacrifices are acceptable as long as you get what you want.
     
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    Parabola said:
    Just watch, the argument is gonna be that this is out of character for him, that he's gone Stupid Evil for no reason, that the writers are hacks, etc. Nevermind the fact that Ironwood has always seen Mantle as disposable, that he's been increasingly unhinged and consumed by fear in the last volume and a half, and that he's always thought that sacrifices are acceptable as long as you get what you want.
    [/SPOILER]
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    Pretty much aaaaall of that:
    I mean at this point he hasn't slept in like four days so him becoming more unhinged isn't exactly a shock. Plus he's always shown a lack of care towards Mantle & expressed respect for Salem's "inhumanity", his overarching mantra has continually been "The more I sacrifice (Others), the more callous I become, the more pragmatic I am, the more like Salem I am, the more likely to win I am."

    At this point he's basically embraced his "Steward of Gondor" inspirations full tilt XD

    Plus in Ironwood's mind obedience and loyalty are one in the same, RWBY have already 'betrayed' him, and also they & Mantle would demand he step down given the whole "Leaving them to die" thing, let alone him working with Watts, so I'm not exactly shocked he opted to triple down, at this stage he's entered all or nothing territory.

    An added post on that:
     
    Zam said:
    Pretty much aaaaall of that:
    I mean at this point he hasn't slept in like four days so him becoming more unhinged isn't exactly a shock. Plus he's always shown a lack of care towards Mantle & expressed respect for Salem's "inhumanity", his overarching mantra has continually been "The more I sacrifice (Others), the more callous I become, the more pragmatic I am, the more like Salem I am, the more likely to win I am."

    At this point he's basically embraced his "Steward of Gondor" inspirations full tilt XD

    Plus in Ironwood's mind obedience and loyalty are one in the same, RWBY have already 'betrayed' him, and also they & Mantle would demand he step down given the whole "Leaving them to die" thing, let alone him working with Watts, so I'm not exactly shocked he opted to triple down, at this stage he's entered all or nothing territory.
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    He's already entered all or nothing territory when he summarily executed one of the councilmembers for disagreeing with him. Anyone who still thought that he was the good guy and in the right are people dreaming of a dictatorship.
     
    Reactions:



    "Since this is kinda my thing, I decided to forgo the more blatant Marrow scenes at the beginning of the episode in favor of watching him during the scene in Ironwood's office. And when Ironwood announces the plan to leverage Yang, Jaune, and Ren to force Penny to come back, the camera stays off him for the rest of the scene except for one conspicuous shot after the table shatters. And that shot….y.all…

    He wasn't scared that Ironwood would go that far. The rest of the Ace Ops were, but he wasn't. He was pissed.

    And James has just gone far beyond that."
     
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    Psyga315 said:
    There is one explanation that might make sense:

    His Semblance is working overtime.
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    No.

    Again, I've said how his semblance is not mind control. It's not driving his actions. All it does is let him carry through on whatever action he decides is right. He decided to sear his arm. He decided to shoot Sleet. He decided to hold Mantle hostage so he could launch Atlas into the air and abandon all of Remnant.

    The explanation that makes sense is that James has been awake for 3 days in a high stress situation, doped up on painkillers and adrenaline and trauma, and is a tyrannical fascist who only puts faith in his own choices.
     
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    Funny how the person who burned someone alive on the inside out is more human than the guy trying to stop the demon woman from having her way.
     
    Psyga315 said:
    Jacques: And I tried to have him removed!
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    you joke but given the mess being made and the likely fallout of cleaning up the excess of certain people he might be propped up as a figure head of a civil government as he is the only member of the council to oppose Ironwood from the start publicly
     
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    Jacques also solicited murder and got caught engaged in massive bribery. The People of Mantle sure aren't going to forgive him; and there's the matter of him working with the guys who triggered the invasion.
     
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    TvTropes pointed this out

    • Ass Pull: Ever since the end of Volume 7, one of the biggest problems facing the heroes was how they would take down Monstra, Salem's enormous flying Grimm Whale that spewed out an army of more Grimm. The answer? Oscar unleashes stored power within The Long Memory which is revealed in this episode to have been stored over multiple lifetimes. Even arguing that the dust in Hazel played some role, never had whatever power within The Long Memory been hinted to be anywhere NEAR the amount necessary to destroy Monstra and the entire surrounding Grimm army, and BARELY even hinted to exist at all beyond his shield. It also brings up the massive Plot Hole of why Ozpin didn't make use of even a fraction of that power during his battle with Cinder at the Fall of Beacon, as it vastly outstrips any display of the Maiden powers.
    I think it's a fair point. RWBY's gotten a lot better over the years but it still has some silly elements in its writing.
     
    LordYam said:
    TvTropes pointed this out

    • Ass Pull: Ever since the end of Volume 7, one of the biggest problems facing the heroes was how they would take down Monstra, Salem's enormous flying Grimm Whale that spewed out an army of more Grimm. The answer? Oscar unleashes stored power within The Long Memory which is revealed in this episode to have been stored over multiple lifetimes. Even arguing that the dust in Hazel played some role, never had whatever power within The Long Memory been hinted to be anywhere NEAR the amount necessary to destroy Monstra and the entire surrounding Grimm army, and BARELY even hinted to exist at all beyond his shield. It also brings up the massive Plot Hole of why Ozpin didn't make use of even a fraction of that power during his battle with Cinder at the Fall of Beacon, as it vastly outstrips any display of the Maiden powers.
    I think it's a fair point. RWBY's gotten a lot better over the years but it still has some silly elements in its writing.
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    My only idea was that part of the kinetic energy came from the Cinder fight.
     
    LordYam said:
    TvTropes pointed this out

    • Ass Pull: Ever since the end of Volume 7, one of the biggest problems facing the heroes was how they would take down Monstra, Salem's enormous flying Grimm Whale that spewed out an army of more Grimm. The answer? Oscar unleashes stored power within The Long Memory which is revealed in this episode to have been stored over multiple lifetimes. Even arguing that the dust in Hazel played some role, never had whatever power within The Long Memory been hinted to be anywhere NEAR the amount necessary to destroy Monstra and the entire surrounding Grimm army, and BARELY even hinted to exist at all beyond his shield. It also brings up the massive Plot Hole of why Ozpin didn't make use of even a fraction of that power during his battle with Cinder at the Fall of Beacon, as it vastly outstrips any display of the Maiden powers.
    I think it's a fair point. RWBY's gotten a lot better over the years but it still has some silly elements in its writing.
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    Because
    Nuking the building you want to protect at all costs
    makes sense I suppose?


    And did they just forget
    that we saw it took a whole lot of time and a big old light show for Oscar to release that store of energy? Hazel didn't set himself on fire for the fun of it last episode. He was actively preventing Salem from ripping Oscar's head off before the cane could be used.


    Even if Ozpin did try to use the cane at Beacon it would have been actively detrimental as in a 1v1 fight Cinder could shank him while he was using his 1 Minute casting time spell without him having any allies to prevent her from doing so.
     
    I am not looking forward to the latest round of 'Ironwood is making entirely rational decisions!' nonsense. On a related note, the animation team did a WONDERFUL job with his body langauge and facial expressions this ep.

    And Emerald ends up REALLY uncomfortable with the consequences of her actions.

    LordYam said:
    TvTropes pointed this out

    • Ass Pull: Ever since the end of Volume 7, one of the biggest problems facing the heroes was how they would take down Monstra, Salem's enormous flying Grimm Whale that spewed out an army of more Grimm. The answer? Oscar unleashes stored power within The Long Memory which is revealed in this episode to have been stored over multiple lifetimes. Even arguing that the dust in Hazel played some role, never had whatever power within The Long Memory been hinted to be anywhere NEAR the amount necessary to destroy Monstra and the entire surrounding Grimm army, and BARELY even hinted to exist at all beyond his shield. It also brings up the massive Plot Hole of why Ozpin didn't make use of even a fraction of that power during his battle with Cinder at the Fall of Beacon, as it vastly outstrips any display of the Maiden powers.
    I think it's a fair point. RWBY's gotten a lot better over the years but it still has some silly elements in its writing.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Eh, it's pretty easily explained. Oz made Long Memory before he even found the lamp himself, it's one of his trump cards against Salem. Makes sense it's capable of some truly epic shit.
     
    But why not use a fraction of that power? Surely he could tap into a small section of that power in less time.

    That said I've been thinking Cinder might have a redemption arc. I'm guessing that come the end of the atlas arc she looses her powers (possibly by having her grimm arm destroyed and the power within being freed.) Salem coldly abandons her, telling her "you are NOTHING", meaning that Cinder is right back where she started. She gets arrested and put into custody, and Ruby, having learned her past.....makes a sincere attempt to try and help her. Whether Cinder takes the chance remains to be seen but I can imagine Ruby trying to help even someone like Cinder.
     
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