RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • Shadows said:
    Ironically, as bad as an idea trench warfare turned out to be IRL between human nations, if you can back your trenches with enough automatic weapons and heavy guns, you should, in theory, be able to annihilate Grimm attacks, because trenches counteract the very 'tactics' Grimm actually use, outside of the very old and very weird. A trench is a very good way to buy time.
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    I was foing to make that same point. Yang dod what she told Raven she would, she faced down Salem and didn't run. She tried to escape but only when it was the best option to get Oscar out of there. She took the fight right to her too.
     
    Pugman said:
    "Semblance"
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    It's kind of understandable that she would be at least somewhat dismissive of said abilities. Because from the examples we've seen, the magic that humanity once wielded was far more versatile and (generally) more powerful. To Salem these modern day humans are one-trick ponies. As a result she'd be rather annoyed that one f these 'parlor-trick' practitioners managed to pull one over her.

    Heck the overarching name of the abilities reference that they're similar to magic but not/lesser to that power.
    noun: semblance
    the outward appearance or apparent form of something, especially when the reality is different.
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    Might explain why she likes Mercury a lot. He has no Semblance to use/abuse and had to train without one, making him an ideal pawn.
     
    RWBYJNPRO as birds (was probably shared before but still good)


    Mom energy


    Salem Moves 1


    Salem Moves 2


    No More
    All Hail The Winter Maiden


    Zam said:
    Kinda reminded of this post:


    Personally I am thinking its maybe a long term mutation, or a sign Salem's curse might be 'gone' in a sense of the word but that her body no longer works like it used to.
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    I think
    it might be more that after her fall out with Ozma2 and the end of her "Happily Ever After" she gave into the darkness much more than before. Thus leading to her current look and the difference in her regen.
    She might not think about it or believe it...but she is becoming so much more like the Dark Brother.


    Mook said:
    Worse scenario
    Watts actually makes it out of this volume intact and is tasked with making his own take on the P.E.N.N.Y project.

    By using the Aura Transfer Machines (cuz seriously that chekhov needs to be fired) to create a robot powered by 100% of Hazel's aura instead of just taking in a small amount to light it's own fire. Or maybe make a small army of Hazelbots by ripping of pieces of Hazel's aura and giving each bot a piece.

    And Watts would be able to do it because Ironwood gave him access to all of Penny's schematics both in volume 3 and by letting him hack her and by inadvertently giving him his own Scroll. And he understands how a sentient bots coding works too thanks to being allowed to work on hacking Penny.
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    I thought
    that the chekov's gun aspect o the ATM's has been used already, even though it has been interrupted twice. Are you just looking for an answer to the question of "What happens when we take the soul of another, and forcefully shove it into another who already has a soul?" Because while you are wondering about Hazelbots, I doubt the show would go in that direction.
     
    Pugman said:
    I thought
    that the chekov's gun aspect o the ATM's has been used already, even though it has been interrupted twice. Are you just looking for an answer to the question of "What happens when we take the soul of another, and forcefully shove it into another who already has a soul?" Because while you are wondering about Hazelbots, I doubt the show would go in that direction.
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    No. I mean
    that people have attempted to use the Aura Transfer Machine twice in the story so far and failed both times. The time with Fria in particular it didn't really feel needed, since the whole point of having Winter as her sole caretaker was for her to think of Winter in her final thoughts and transfer the powers to her when she died. No fancy machine was really required there, just have winter go in, wake her up and then stab her in the face.

    The machine has been established to exist and is a recurring element in the story. Third time is the charm as they say so I think it's about time it's actually used successfully for something. Although I suppose reviving Penny could also count towards that purpose.


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    thought crossed my mind
    Each of our heroes have had horrible shit happen to them, and each have (in time) chosen to get back up and Keep Moving Forward.
    The God Bros granted humanity 4 aspects. Creation, Destruction, Knowledge and Choice.
    For me, personally, I believe Ruby (and more than likely her friends of both WBY, JNR and O) are going to have a big talk no jutsu moment that convinces the gods to not kill humanity a second time.
    So that being said, how could we take their life experiences of love, loss, and moving forward, and combine it with the 4 aspects into a resonating and rousing speech for the ages?
     
    Pugman said:
    thought crossed my mind
    Each of our heroes have had horrible shit happen to them, and each have (in time) chosen to get back up and Keep Moving Forward.
    The God Bros granted humanity 4 aspects. Creation, Destruction, Knowledge and Choice.
    For me, personally, I believe Ruby (and more than likely her friends of both WBY, JNR and O) are going to have a big talk no jutsu moment that convinces the gods to not kill humanity a second time.
    So that being said, how could we take their life experiences of love, loss, and moving forward, and combine it with the 4 aspects into a resonating and rousing speech for the ages?
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    Hmm...

    I'd say Blake's Choice, since her major moment was giving Ilia the choice between joining her or committing to murdering her parents.

    Yang is, I want to say Destruction, since she had lost the most (her moms, her arm, and temporarily Blake).

    Ruby's Knowledge, since she's the one who decided to withhold knowledge on Salem before deciding on when to share said knowledge.

    And that leaves Weiss with Creation.
     
    I can't believe
    That this is basically canon, except Neo did it to fucking SALEM and with a fucking RELIC! 🤯





    It's fucking hilarious. Neo for the win. 😂



    Also fingers crossed that the CRWBY will thread this needle.


    link
     
    Mook said:
    Also fingers crossed that the CRWBY will thread this needle.


    link
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    And given how we're seeing the consequences of Oz's idea of training Huntsmen to fight Grimm play out ("they're just kids") and the possibility of people going "so they know about this Salem thing for how long?", it seems really unlikely that the main guy who stands by that idea is going to just die.
     
    *facepalms*
    Even Murderofbirds had a moment of "IS THAT ADAM" when we first see the man behind The Hound.
    And....I just.....HOW are people making that mistake?! -.-
     
    Pugman said:
    *facepalms*
    Even Murderofbirds had a moment of "IS THAT ADAM" when we first see the man behind The Hound.
    And....I just.....HOW are people making that mistake?! -.-
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    I think it's the mistake of a "first glance" sort of thing. That, when you first see something, your mind instantly associates it with something familiar.
     
    Psyga315 said:
    I think it's the mistake of a "first glance" sort of thing. That, when you first see something, your mind instantly associates it with something familiar.
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    and yet
    1 - Salem had no reason to retrieve Adam's body
    2 - Adam has bright red hair and black horns, Hound Man has hair and ears that are closer in color to a Rockruff
    3 - There had been ZERO hints at Adam being the one in the body.

    So to me, "first glance" and "associate with something familiar" sounds like BS and just an excuse to hide the mind wanting Adam back, which is really not something I would NOT attribute to Murderofbirds and why I find him of all people falling for the BS thought to be both odd and aggravating.
     
    Pugman said:
    and yet
    1 - Salem had no reason to retrieve Adam's body
    2 - Adam has bright red hair and black horns, Hound Man has hair and ears that are closer in color to a Rockruff
    3 - There had been ZERO hints at Adam being the one in the body.

    So to me, "first glance" and "associate with something familiar" sounds like BS and just an excuse to hide the mind wanting Adam back, which is really not something I would NOT attribute to Murderofbirds and why I find him of all people falling for the BS thought to be both odd and aggravating.
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    Also, Fuck Adam and good riddance.
     
    Pugman said:
    and yet
    1 - Salem had no reason to retrieve Adam's body
    2 - Adam has bright red hair and black horns, Hound Man has hair and ears that are closer in color to a Rockruff
    3 - There had been ZERO hints at Adam being the one in the body.

    So to me, "first glance" and "associate with something familiar" sounds like BS and just an excuse to hide the mind wanting Adam back, which is really not something I would NOT attribute to Murderofbirds and why I find him of all people falling for the BS thought to be both odd and aggravating.
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    I just saw a tweet from MoB about this very thing.


    It's exactly what I said. It's easy to make a mistake and it's not some warped desire to have Adam back.
     
    SerGregness said:
    Shit, I don't remember that being mentioned. Granted, it's been a while since I went back and rewatched the first seasons. Where was his backstory?
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    volume 3 when we get flashbacks to how Cinder recruited Emerald, Roman, Mercury, Adam, and got half the Fall Maiden powers. and then later in volume 6 when Emerald is lamenting that Cinder is not around and is thus now questioning why they are even there, to which Mercury basically tells he to stop simping for Cinder and reveals (while batting Emerald around) that his dad Marcus Black "took" his semblance away and claiming it was a crutch for the young Mercury.
     
    Pugman said:
    I think
    undefined
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    Also possible.

    Mook said:
    Also fingers crossed that the CRWBY will thread this needle.
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    I actually disagree with this:
    As far as I'm concerned, Hazel's critique of Ozpin was always valid, uses academies where teenagers are meant to be safe as holding places for the relics puts them in danger of a threat they are not aware, and that's the most charitable spin on his "The academies exist to guard the Relics" plan. The system and his plans have involved sending teenagers and actively underage kids into danger without being wholly aware of who or what they are even fighting.

    Someone can go "Oh but there wouldn't be a show if the adults did everything" but that's always been garbage logic because the writers have outright built themes of this series on the failures of the past generation, highlighted children in war & the consequences there-of, this isn't fans reading too much into it, its baked into the narrative. As it is, Hazel's anger at his sister dying as a teen because of orders Ozpin gave, that anger is entirely valid and as we saw he still initially tried to seek out Salem anyway rather than Oz.

    But as noted, in my eyes he still has every right to be angry with Ozpin, this episode alone has Marrow highlight sending students into war is fucked up, so I very much don't think the show is or should is leaning towards "Yeah no Ozpin was right, this is fine, Gretchen was a noble martyr & her death was acceptable." Frankly I like this turn, because its not Hazel changing his entire outlook and suddenly being all "Hey its great my sister died as a teenager cos someone who was meant to teach & protect her sent her into danger!" He's just realized that the goal he thought he was sacrificing his morality for likely doesn't exist and that this specific coping mechanism was the wrong one.

    Pugman said:
    *facepalms*
    Even Murderofbirds had a moment of "IS THAT ADAM" when we first see the man behind The Hound.
    And....I just.....HOW are people making that mistake?! -.-
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    I mean he's not exactly good at this, but if you're wondering why, its cos of the hair. That was my experience at least.
     
    Zam said:
    I actually disagree with this:
    As far as I'm concerned, Hazel's critique of Ozpin was always valid, uses academies where teenagers are meant to be safe as holding places for the relics puts them in danger of a threat they are not aware, and that's the most charitable spin on his "The academies exist to guard the Relics" plan. The system and his plans have involved sending teenagers and actively underage kids into danger without being wholly aware of who or what they are even fighting.

    Someone can go "Oh but there wouldn't be a show if the adults did everything" but that's always been garbage logic because the writers have outright built themes of this series on the failures of the past generation, highlighted children in war & the consequences there-of, this isn't fans reading too much into it, its baked into the narrative. As it is, Hazel's anger at his sister dying as a teen because of orders Ozpin gave, that anger is entirely valid and as we saw he still initially tried to seek out Salem anyway rather than Oz.

    But as noted, in my eyes he still has every right to be angry with Ozpin, this episode alone has Marrow highlight sending students into war is fucked up, so I very much don't think the show is or should is leaning towards "Yeah no Ozpin was right, this is fine, Gretchen was a noble martyr & her death was acceptable." Frankly I like this turn, because its not Hazel changing his entire outlook and suddenly being all "Hey its great my sister died as a teenager cos someone who was meant to teach & protect her sent her into danger!" He's just realized that the goal he thought he was sacrificing his morality for likely doesn't exist and that this specific coping mechanism was the wrong one.
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    Oh, it's entirely a valid argument, but I've often wondered what about Gretchen we don't know. Namely, how old was the Ozpin reincarnation, how well did he actually know Gretchen, and what were the circumstances of her death? Those are the details we don't know that really determine the level of guilt Oz should face in regards to her. Especially since, just like every huntress in the show, Gretchin would have had a choice, she wasn't conscripted. There are details we don't know, and I'm certain it's not as simple as Hazel wants it to be.
     
    Matrix Dragon said:
    Oh, it's entirely a valid argument, but I've often wondered what about Gretchen we don't know. Namely, how old was the Ozpin reincarnation, how well did he actually know Gretchen, and what were the circumstances of her death? Those are the details we don't know that really determine the level of guilt Oz should face in regards to her. Especially since, just like every huntress in the show, Gretchin would have had a choice, she wasn't conscripted. There are details we don't know, and I'm certain it's not as simple as Hazel wants it to be.
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    I feel like the fact no one ever said "She was a well informed and consenting adult, so shut the fuck up" sort of conveys she was at best a teenager and the fact Ozpin never tries to say he had nothing to do with it or no control but just says Hazel can't be healed, also conveys to me he had enough personal involvement to be deemed guilty of negligence of care at best.

    Basically, I am assuming Gretchen was in a similar situation to Ruby/RWBY & co but unlike them didn't make it out and Hazel took it poorly, but still went after Salem, right up until he was too exhausted to fight anymore and she convinced him of her 'plan' to end the current system, thus promising once she was in power no one would die like Gretchen did.
     
    Zam said:
    I feel like the fact no one ever said "She was a well informed and consenting adult, so shut the fuck up" sort of conveys she was at best a teenager and the fact Ozpin never tries to say he had nothing to do with it or no control but just says Hazel can't be healed, also conveys to me he had enough personal involvement to be deemed guilty of negligence of care at best.

    Basically, I am assuming Gretchen was in a similar situation to Ruby/RWBY & co but unlike them didn't make it out and Hazel took it poorly, but still went after Salem, right up until he was too exhausted to fight anymore and she convinced him of her 'plan' to end the current system, thus promising once she was in power no one would die like Gretchen did.
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    Possible, but there is the fact Oz tends to blame himself for everything that goes wrong, no matter how uninvolved he is. Also keep in mind Oscar did try some of that argument on Hazel at Haven, but well, Hazel was too busy trying to kill kids to protect kids from being murdered. At the same time though... Look, Remnant is a death world. If Gretchen chose to stand against the Grimm and become a huntress, that was her choice to make, and there are times it feels like Hazel is denying her own agency in her choices.
     
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