RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • A cool detail from Dark. Did anyone notice how Klein's Scroll just let him casually perform an x-ray to check Penny for internal injuries? It even automatically highlights the most critical damage. Atlas tech is bullshit yo.


    Teen Spirit said:
    Hazel burned the witch

    Did...Neo just scam Salem and steal the relic for herself.
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    Even better
    he tied a Witch to a Hazel tree and then burned her.





    Yes Neo does appear to have scammed the hell out of the immortal god queen of the Grimm. This is why she's a fan favorite. :3


    Also on the topic of Yang vs Salem:
     
    It was a great episode for showing how far people have come.

    The writers just giving up on subtlety and straight up going telling us 'yeah Yang jokes around to hide her fears and insecurities' and 'Summer Rose, my mom'. Hopefully that'll be enough to get through some peoples' heads that characters can be nuanced enough for this sort of thing.

    I'm very proud of Ren. Not only is him being able to get a rough sense of people's presences with his semblance a pretty good payoff of all those times he's always shown himself to be aware of incoming threats, but how he interacted with Emerald: He realized Emerald was just as scared as them, but he did so after his aura broke. It was just that visible to him without needing supernatural power. He trusted her without having evidence for it.

    Jaune has achieved a solid level of confidence, the quiet, everyday kind that's not super exciting but which is really helpful to keep people grounded, to see that the people who follow you know that you might not be stronger, but you're with them anyway. Admittedly, depending on whether Ren's exaggerating it or not, it may simply come off as foolishness - fear is necessary for bravery, and all that.

    Then again... The JYR group didn't come out of the whale with either of the things they went into the whale for. At least one of their Auras are broken, their friend has pulled off a (probably non-lethal) sacrifice gambit, and nobody knows where the Lamp is. On the other hand, they have gained one more capable fighter on their team, even if they won't get along too well just yet.
     
    I just realized that the Atlas Military managed to hold the line despite their parade formation

    I assume Captain Kirrahe gave his speech before battle was joined.

    Hold the Line!
     
    So...Emerald Thoughts.

    Like unless someone's hyper freaking paranoid right now, it's pretty clear to Yang and the gang that Emerald's defection is real. She directly seriously pissed Salem off and helped Oscar.

    Like it's gotta suck for Emerald right now, the only people who might help her right now are her former enemies. Cinder clearly never cared for her but Mercury and Hazel did. Mercury's nowhere near here anymore. And Hazel is probably dead.

    Oh god, there's gonna be a Emerald vs Mercury fight in a Volume or two.

    I do wonder How Emerald seeing Cinder again is gonna go, besides badly.

    Team reunion should be interesting. Yang and the gang coming back Sans Oscar but plus Emerald to find Ruby and company hanging out the Schnee manor with both Nora and Penny down for the count, and there's a mostly skeletal dude underneath one of the statues, surrounded by grimm goo.
     
    Jaune Arc: The Man without Fear.
    Neo: The Rainbow thief steals the precious thing.
    Oscar: "Za warudo!"

    I doubt this (presumed) time freeze is going to be permanent but it should keep Salem locked down long enough to cripple the whale. Considering how fast she recovers from lethal damage (while being able to ignore her head/torso being blown apart) a super-pause button is pretty much the only way to slow her down.

    Of course even if the whale manages to be destroyed/crippled; I can't see everything just being automatically resolved. Penny's still hacked, Cinder and Watts are running around, Ironwood is still Ironwood, and Salem is going to be pissed by recent events.
     
    Emerald. Emerald plz.

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    Salem is being a mom again

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    Um. Oh my....

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    Haha, that's not ominous at all. 😅

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    As the lifespan of a show increases the probability of it's fans making Monty Python jokes approaches 100%.

    link
     
    Whoops, slept in. Let's do this!

    A shot on the front lines... that's a lot of dead people... Atlas has only the finest defenders.
    JRY got inside the Whale, good to see. "Well that was harrowing." Okay, it wasn't without incident.
    "It's gonna be like trying to find a needle in a... giant whale WHY DID WE THINK THIS WAS A GOOD IDEA?" To be fair Yang, it was more like the least terrible idea ahead of the Ace Ops actually doing anything.
    Ren trying to use his new Jedi mind powers, whoo!
    Oscar remembering fairytales, and Oz recognizing them. Good bonding.
    Hmm, Oscar doesn't like using magic for valid reasons, Oz understands, and complements the young man for what he's achieved.
    And here's... Hazel... Maybe.
    FNKI! Oh, sending half trained soldierws to the front lines. That desperate already? So much for the grand army of Atlas.
    "But... they're just kids..." "You can hash out your issues later!" Yeah, look, gotta agree with Elm. You already sent people their age into the whale, after all.
    Yup, it's Hazel... and he's testing the password because Salem would punish him if it was a lie, and he's brought Oscar there to test it. In the end... still a coward willing to take it out on children.
    Emerald!
    JINN!
    "What Gretchen would have done." ... Okay, my reaction from a few seconds ago, I take it back.
    ... Okay, I think Jinn was fine being summoned without a question, because one, it wasn't Ruby, and two, how often does she get to answer an unrelated question just by showing up?
    NEO!
    And Jaune accidentally answers a question I've been wondering. You don't want to touch the walls. AT ALL.
    I love that Yang was fine with Ren pointing out she was scared... Meanwhile, Jaune feels no fear, he's going to save his teammate!
    ...It's a Good Thing JRY was detected.
    The return of Juan!
    JAUNE GIVES GOOD HUGS!
    Marrow uses Guilt! It's Super Effective! Winter hides behind Duty Again! Winter shakes off the guilt.
    Salem be angry.
    ... Oh, great. They've worked on Salems regen animations.
    Regardless of his fear, Oscar goes for the magic when his friends are in danger.
    Salem be angry.
    "No more Gretchens boy."
    WOO HAZEL! DRAMATIC SHIRT TOSS!
    Oh, great. They've worked on Salems regen animations.
    Witch burning. Dang.
    Cliffhanger!
     
    jwolfe_beta said:
    Jaune Arc: The Man without Fear.
    Neo: The Rainbow thief steals the precious thing.
    Oscar: "Za warudo!"

    I doubt this (presumed) time freeze is going to be permanent but it should keep Salem locked down long enough to cripple the whale. Considering how fast she recovers from lethal damage (while being able to ignore her head/torso being blown apart) a super-pause button is pretty much the only way to slow her down.

    Of course even if the whale manages to be destroyed/crippled; I can't see everything just being automatically resolved. Penny's still hacked, Cinder and Watts are running around, Ironwood is still Ironwood, and Salem is going to be pissed by recent events.
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    Makes for a fun awkward plane ride back.
    "So... read any good books lately...?"
     
    Matrix Dragon said:
    Whoops, slept in. Let's do this!

    A shot on the front lines... that's a lot of dead people... Atlas has only the finest defenders.
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    I see that less as an indictment of the Atlesian military and more as just a Grimm reminder of how hopelessly outgunned any force is going to be when trying to defend against a Grimm attack of this scale. There are endless waves of freaking Megoliaths here! There sky is filled with freaks of nature like Queen Lancers, Sphinxes and winged Beringels. Frankly it's impressive that the military has been able to hold the line at all, even if they are clearly throwing everything and the kitchen sink at the Grimm judging by how even Academy students seem to be outright conscripted from this battle (and boy doesn't that hit hard considering how V3 Ironwood was very clear that participating in the Battle of Beacon would be a strictly voluntary affair for any of the students).



    Anyway speaking of blink and miss it moments during the battle anyone else notice the debut of the Sulfur Fish?
     
    I don't get why people are having issue with Marrow here.
    "But, they're just kids." Which is true. And while yes they did sign up to be Huntsmen and Huntresses and learn to hunt and kill Grimm, but I doubt any of FNKI, let alone Ruby and friends, signed up for a war like this. And heck, you can't even compare the situations FNKI and RubyCo. are in.
    I mean think about it, when Beacon fell Flynt and Neon fell back and returned to Atlas to continue their schooling. A lot of the huntsmen-in-training we saw went back to school, no idea what happened and just hopping that shit never happened again. Meanwhile Ruby and her friends all in their way picked themselves up with the aid of friends and loved ones and went to find their own answers. They stumbled on the truth of the battle and at each crossroads have chosen to fight the forces of darkness of, no matter where they ended up. FNKI, on the other hand, and no clue what the heck was going on or what was really attacking them until Ruby's message went out. And from there it was just an order to suit up and form up outside the city wall. They didn't go looking for this fight, but now they are stuck in it and told to go in and fight. They didn't chose to fight The Witch, but now they are stuck trying to kick her of their floating city no matter how many bodies drop. As far as Marrow is probably concerned, FNKI shouldn't be there and likely throwing their young lives away in this fight.
     
    Pugman said:
    They are still in school/training and without huntsmen licenses. Thus they would still be "Kids" compared to Marrow, The Aces, Winter, and everyone else in that field who has already graduated.
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    They're also named characters with unique designs, and hence better-suited to surviving being used as cannon fodder than just about anyone else in Atlas who isn't occupied somewhere else.
     
    Really, it's more that Marrow chooses a hell of a time to voice his doubts.

    EDIT: Although I think it's really hitting him that the supposed adults of the world have contributed very little as of late, besides attacking and hijacking a young womans free will, forcing the children to have to rise to the occasion. It's not only that it's not fair, it's a failing on the adults part.
     
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    Pugman said:
    I don't get why people are having issue with Marrow here.
    "But, they're just kids." Which is true. And while yes they did sign up to be Huntsmen and Huntresses and learn to hunt and kill Grimm, but I doubt any of FNKI, let alone Ruby and friends, signed up for a war like this. And heck, you can't even compare the situations FNKI and RubyCo. are in.
    I mean think about it, when Beacon fell Flynt and Neon fell back and returned to Atlas to continue their schooling. A lot of the huntsmen-in-training we saw went back to school, no idea what happened and just hopping that shit never happened again. Meanwhile Ruby and her friends all in their way picked themselves up with the aid of friends and loved ones and went to find their own answers. They stumbled on the truth of the battle and at each crossroads have chosen to fight the forces of darkness of, no matter where they ended up. FNKI, on the other hand, and no clue what the heck was going on or what was really attacking them until Ruby's message went out. And from there it was just an order to suit up and form up outside the city wall. They didn't go looking for this fight, but now they are stuck in it and told to go in and fight. They didn't chose to fight The Witch, but now they are stuck trying to kick her of their floating city no matter how many bodies drop. As far as Marrow is probably concerned, FNKI shouldn't be there and likely throwing their young lives away in this fight.
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    Yeah the reactions to that has been bugging me too
    and it's like... Did people just not spot the obvious implications of the uniforms?






    They're lined up like tin soldiers, shouting "Yes ma'am" when an officer makes a demand of them and wearing military uniforms. Not even the very slightly personalized outfits of Military Huntsmen or the more personalized outfits of Specialists/Ace-Ops but just straight up rank and file soldier/cannon fodder uniforms. It's like watching a Jedi put on a Storm Trooper uniform to serve in the Empire military instead of using it as an infiltration tool to rescue princesses.


    Compare that to Ironwood's attitude before all his recent meltdowns:




    Those uniforms and those instant leaps to obey orders makes it pretty clear I think, that this is not a case of Team FNKI (and potentially other students) volunteering to fight like they did at Beacon (though they probably would have here too if given the choice) but instead outright conscription to fill the battlefield with more bodies and likely severe repercussions if they refused.


    That's why Marrow is so uncomfortable about this. Because deep down he knows there is a difference between RWBY, ORNJ and Penny doing everything they can to help people and to help their friends, and FNKI and other students being given uniforms and being ORDERED to throw themselves into the meatgrinder with no care for their opinions on the matter.




    Matrix Dragon said:
    Really, it's more that Marrow chooses a hell of a time to voice his doubts.

    EDIT: Although I think it's really hitting him that the supposed adults of the world have contributed very little as of late, besides attacking and hijacking a young womans free will, forcing the children to have to rise to the occasion. It's not only that it's not fair, it's a failing on the adults part.
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    For me this looks like a "straw that broke the camels back" moment.
    Especially since Ren calling him out recently made it impossible for him to keep ignoring his own doubts and regrets about everything he and the military have been doing lately. Like, Winter wouldn't neccesarily be wrong that the lives of the few couldn't be prioritized higher than the lives of the many... Except that the entire reason they're in this messed up situation with Oscar being captured and RWBY/ORNJ/Penny being enemies in the first place is because Ironwood did precisely that by valuing the lifes of the few in Atlas over the lives of the many of the entire world.


    Ironwood and his lackeys aren't just failing, they're doing so in a hypocritical way and could have avoided most of these issues if they hadn't turned on their allies. Like, Ironwood could have turned on the heat in Mantle, authorized the launch of Amity and ordered the SDC to continue the evacuation of Mantle any time he wanted. Instead he actively fought against the right thing at every step of the way which got Nora and Penny crippled and prevented RWBY and ORNJ from helping the military. A fully operational Winter Maiden sure would have been useful on a battlefield like this but Ironwood was so obsessed with controlling her that he gave her over to freaking Watts of all people.


    It's no wonder that Marrow is reaching his breaking point in terms of "greater good" justifications he's willing to accept.
     
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    One neat detail that's important to keep in mind

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    While at first glance it kind of seemed like Hazel was overriding Emerald's agency in taking the first step of her redemption arc... She caught him in the lamp room. Not on the way to the lamp room. In the lamp room. What was she doing there to catch him in the act in the first place? The same thing he was, although probably less cowardly since he was hedging his bets while Emerald seems to have already made up her mind and isn't taking the easy way out like he did.


     
    SerGregness said:
    I guess this might be a nitpick, but didn't Ironwood graduate them all and activate their licenses last volume?
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    He did so for RWBY and JNR. Flynt Coal, Neon Katt, Kobalt, and Ivori are all still students as far as we know. Becuase the last time we saw them, they were all training at the academy; not out on missions.
    Mook said:
    The same thing he was, although probably less cowardly since he was hedging his bets while Emerald seems to have already made up her mind and isn't taking the easy way out like he did.
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    -waggles hand-
    I think it's less cowardly and more that Emerald doesn't have nearly the degree of ingrained distrust of Ozpin's word and Hazel has. As a result he wanted more proof before being willing to accept what he had been told.

    As for the 'easy way out' if he hadn't grabbed (and started to BBQ) Salem, it's highly likely that Oscar wouldn't have been able to finish whatever he was doing. Because Salem knew what he was doing and was intending to stop him. Yes he didn't choose to live and make amends but through his actions, it's likely that everyone else will be able to get away from Salem (as opposed to her torturing and killing them).
     
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