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RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • Mook said:
    Scenes that are not technically confirmed to be gay at the moment are going to make the show a hundred times gayer the moment all that build up receives it's payoff.
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    Ugh I am agreeing with you while I disagree with you. Thank you for putting it that way for me though
     
    Mook said:
    At the rate they're currently going and with volume 8 right around the corner I would say either give it a few months or at most one year.
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    I would be pleasantly surprised if they do it in Season 8.

    Also pretending that RWBY's meandering prods at LGBT+ rep are remotely comparable to She-Ra is transparently ridiculous. From framing to the entire emotional thrust of the show to prominence and importance of relationships She-Ra is basically built ground up to put forward queer stuff while aimed at a significantly younger audience than RWBY is.
     
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    Havocfett said:
    I would be pleasantly surprised if they do it in Season 8.

    Also pretending that RWBY's meandering prods at LGBT+ rep are remotely comparable to She-Ra is transparently ridiculous. From framing to the entire emotional thrust of the show to prominence and importance of relationships She-Ra is basically built ground up to put forward queer stuff while aimed at a significantly younger audience than RWBY is.
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    Of course it's a ridiculous, but the person who made the comparison did so with the intent of painting RWBY's queer representation in a negative light so they picked two shows that were built from the ground up to be LGBT positive. She-Ra was designed from the start to be LGBT focused and have the core emotional relationship be between two women. RWBY wasn't nor has it ever pretended to be that. Instead of comparing RWBY to a show designed to be LBGT positive compare it to shows who have no such aim and it compares much more favorably. Shows such as MLP:FIM, The Dragon Prince, Voltron, and most Anime. You can say "compared to She-Ra RWBY's queer representation is shit" and I could fire back with "yeah, but compared to Naruto RWBY is a beacon of gay pride".
     
    and compared to a bag of fertilizer a toilet is really clean I guess but you still won't find me licking either??
     
    RWBY is a show that very clearly started out with little consideration for LGBTQ+ situations but has tried to fix that as time has moved on and has made positive steps towards this in later volumes. In this, it's almost how you would consider the mainstream is dealing with the need for greater LGBTQ+ representation. Its situation is not a surprise.

    The Dragon Prince is a less favourable comparison for RWBY, however, as the show was made with these issues (and several others) in mind. Characters are introduced early and often with unflinching looks at their situations (adoption, disability, LGBTQ+). The Dragon Prince is what you hope new shows made from now on will be, even if they don't desire to focus specifically on those issues.
     
    Greener223224 said:
    Inb4 they pull a Korra and just have Ruby and Weiss kiss in the last scene of the final episode.
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    Yes yes. You are all so very witty. But the fact is that in the two volumes we've had since they stopped being on separate continents we've gone from them ambiguously pining after each other to having characters directly state that they suspect they're romantically involved. You can make all the witty quips you want but the fact is that animation is time consuming work and the crew would not have bothered spending so much on it on a scene of Nora directly calling out Bumbleby as canon if they did not intend to make it canon.


    VolantRedX said:
    Of course it's a ridiculous, but the person who made the comparison did so with the intent of painting RWBY's queer representation in a negative light so they picked two shows that were built from the ground up to be LGBT positive. She-Ra was designed from the start to be LGBT focused and have the core emotional relationship be between two women. RWBY wasn't nor has it ever pretended to be that. Instead of comparing RWBY to a show designed to be LBGT positive compare it to shows who have no such aim and it compares much more favorably. Shows such as MLP:FIM, The Dragon Prince, Voltron, and most Anime. You can say "compared to She-Ra RWBY's queer representation is shit" and I could fire back with "yeah, but compared to Naruto RWBY is a beacon of gay pride".
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    This basically. Also it's easy to use the power of hindsight to say that She-Ra is possibly the gayest shit but I remember back in season 1 in particular people had a lot of legitimate grievances with explicit gay rep being all but absent. Spinerella and Nettossa being the only gay couple yet being complete non-characters to a practically meta level springs to mind in particular.


    Like ok. Maybe volume 8 really will be a huge disappointment in terms of queer rep. But considering that we're going into a volume where a trans character is likely to play a major role, said characters VA has tweeted excitedly about a badass scene for her character, RWBY is being made by the same company who gave us explicitly genderfluid Val/entina and that RWBY's issues with queer rep stems primarily from the early seasons and is an issue they've been actively working on to address... Well I wouldn't be surprised if volume 8 is a turning point where RWBY gets more trans rep than She-Ra had (again; something the creators themselves said they wished they'd worked harder on).

    Maybe I'm being overly optimist about RWBY here. But if anyone here had to bet actual money on it, would you want to bet on nothing of note happening on the gay front in volume 8?


    mothematics said:
    and compared to a bag of fertilizer a toilet is really clean I guess but you still won't find me licking either??
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    Yet fertilizer is a vitally important component in growing healthy produce for you to consume. Or for livestock to consume so that you may in return consume the livestock (if you're not a vegetarian). Check and mate mothematics. Check and mate.
     
    Revlid said:
    didn't someone already post a long list of examples of RT staff telling fans to watch the show for LGBT representation

    and then never doing that
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    Nope, they had a few clips of the cast and crew saying "we know there isn't enough representation we're trying to find ways to have more visible representation". The season or two right after most of those clips they introduced several explicitly gay characters and started to advance the Blake/Yang relationship.
     
    Marco said:
    RWBY is a show that very clearly started out with little consideration for LGBTQ+ situations but has tried to fix that as time has moved on and has made positive steps towards this in later volumes. In this, it's almost how you would consider the mainstream is dealing with the need for greater LGBTQ+ representation. Its situation is not a surprise.

    The Dragon Prince is a less favourable comparison for RWBY, however, as the show was made with these issues (and several others) in mind. Characters are introduced early and often with unflinching looks at their situations (adoption, disability, LGBTQ+). The Dragon Prince is what you hope new shows made from now on will be, even if they don't desire to focus specifically on those issues.
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    I mean the first confirmed gay couple Dragon Prince introduced in the show itself ended up dying literally before they were even introduced*. The other gay couple involves a guy who is ambiguously dead/not-dead with it being hinted but uncertain if he will ever be saved from his fate and return to his mate who has spent more time on-screen mourning his absence than being happy together with him. I guess Amaya and Janai kind of got together at the end of season 3? Sort of? If we count those as a couple then they're currently the only gay couple who are happy together without any signs of the Bury Your Gays trope in sight.

    So it's not like Dragon Prince is miles ahead of RWBY on that particular front, despite as you said, being designed from the ground up to address these sorts of issues in mind.



     
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    Mook said:
    Yes yes. You are all so very witty. But the fact is that in the two volumes we've had since they stopped being on separate continents we've gone from them ambiguously pining after each other to having characters directly state that they suspect they're romantically involved. You can make all the witty quips you want but the fact is that animation is time consuming work and the crew would not have bothered spending so much on it on a scene of Nora directly calling out Bumbleby as canon if they did not intend to make it canon.
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    That's not canonizing it. That's playing keepaway to excite fans of gay relationships without pissing off shippers that like them better with other characters, or homophobic fans that want to ship themselves with hot anime girls.
    Also, dialogue scenes between two characters are not exactly taxing efforts to animate.

    Why do people refuse to see how cowardly RT are being with Bumblebee? How many times will we have to have this conversation?
     
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    RWBY's first gay character of any note was Ilia.

    Ilia the girl who secretly had a crush on Blake, felt spurned by Blake not being interested, and threw herself into a terrorist organization, and then remained in said terrorist group long after it had risked the extermination of the human race by attempting to destroy Vale & Beacon Academy.

    It's like Rooster Teeth decided that in addition to having troubling depictions of minorities, what they really needed was a lesbian who had just walked out of a Hays Code era movie.

    Remember Girls and Boys! Better be on the look out for them lesbians - turn 'em down, and before you know it, they're firebombing your house!

    And it's a shame, because Ilia's "I broke their teeth" story was one of the better parts of the show IMHO, and it's irritating the handling of Ilia being gay was fucked up so much.
     
    Stop: They post one little old video and then everyone loses their minds
  • Staff Post
    • they post one little old video and then everyone loses their minds To start with the infractions:

    @Zam has been infracted for 25 points and been given a 3-day threadban for violating Rule 4: Don't Be Disruptive, due to constant, aggressive combat-posting over the last several pages of the thread that has consistently disrespected other users and disregarded any evidence and arguments that oppose their own opinions out of hand. @Darmani has also received a Rule 4 infraction for spaghetti posting here.

    On a few more general notes, I would first like to suggest that people posting here should make an effort to consolidate their quotes and address each other's posts more cohesively. While it's not spaghetti posting and not a rules violation so long as it keeps the breaks between separate points and does not strip away context, it still becomes very annoying to read and try to follow, especially once some five or six or more separate quote chains have come into being.

    Additionally, I would remind everyone here to be respectful and polite to each other. This is, ultimately, a thread about a show, discussing fictional characters doing fictional things in a world that is not real. People are allowed to not like it and to criticize it or things that they feel it gets wrong, and that is not an issue. Similarly, people are allowed to love it and praise it for things that they feel it does great. It's fine. This is not an exclusive clubhouse where you must have a correct opinion. If you feel yourself getting angry or hostile, I would strongly suggest that you take a deep breath, step away from the keyboard, maybe do something else for a bit, and come back once you've calmed down. Please, be excellent to one another.

    The thread will now be reopened. Thank you for your time, stay safe, and please have a pleasant day.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • I might give it a watch at some point, but i'll wait for more episodes to come out first.
     
    Leingod said:
    Has anyone been watching that RWBY D&D campaign RT is doing?
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    Only been one episode so far (second ep goes up tomorrow, I believe), but yeah, I've watched it. It was a fun enough time - probably not something I would've watched without the RWBY hook, but that's mostly because I'm fairly picky about tabletop shows.

    The cast is still settling into their characters, and still in the earliest stages of establishing relationships between those characters (it's hard to judge them for that when they're only an episode in) but they already do a very good job of making the show feel like part of Remnant: even beyond the character and worldbuilding tie-ins (Qrow's voice-over from the teaser is part of an in-universe mission briefing; the first destination they head for is Kuchinashi), the players' "here's what my character is doing" narrations capture RWBY's style of action excellently. Even though D&D's turn-based combat rules don't make for a natural fit with that kind of high-motion action, I didn't have any trouble visualizing the combat sequence in my head and coming up with something that felt very RWBY. (And "visualizing scenes almost purely from narration" is something I normally struggle with, so that's saying something!)

    tl;dr, it's just getting started, but I'm enjoying it so far, and I'm looking forward to seeing how the characters develop and how the plot unfolds.
     
    One Redditor: "So are we all in agreement that when Team RWBY+ gets their Vacuo redesigns, it needs to be Coco doing it?"

    Another Genius: "It could work really well as an organic way to recap both the events of the show and the events of After The Fall / Before The Dawn.

    They two teams are having a back-and-forth about their adventures, set over a montage of Coco giving RWBYJNPR a makeover.
    e.g.
    Velvet {Passing a new top over the changing room door to Blake}: "Fought a giant sandworm Grimm."
    Blake {Passing the old one back}: "Mm. Fought a giant whale."
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    ~ ~ ~
    Ren {Sipping tea with Yatsuhashi. They're watching Coco and Nora have a tug-of-war over Nora wanting to keep the skirt, and Coco wanting to put her in trousers}: "An emotional amplification Semblance? Interesting."
    Yatsuhashi {Facepalming as Magnhild and Gianduja come out}: "Indeed. If they ever come around again, I'll make sure they meet you. Could help you both."
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    ~ ~ ~
    Fox {Growing increasingly frustrated while trying to sort old clothes.} "Is there a reason why all of Blake and Yang's stuff smells the same?"
    Weiss {Thinking 'take a wild f¥cking guess, telepathy-boy' really hard at him} "...You might say that."
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    etc


    Hold out hope!

    "The Beacon students had been slow to adopt more practical clothing now that they were in Vacuo, but Coco had been messing around with new outfit designs for Team CFVY."
     
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