RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
 
Last edited:
also nice way to cover admitting I was right
I don't see how you can interpret "you're doing the bad thing you're accusing me of doing" as agreeing with your characterization of hbomberguy. But nice attempt I guess?

Anyway, my point is that people would be more receptive to your argument that the vid is badwrong if you cut down on the ridiculous hyperboles and insults.
 
Last edited:
I don't see how you can interpret "you're doing the bad thing you're accusing me of doing" can be interpreted as agreeing with your characterization of hbomberguy. But nice attempt I guess?
Why are you using scare quotes, when you did, in fact, use fallacies such as ad hominem (all the unecessary insults), cherry picking (he got this small detail wrong), appeal to the stone, red herrings...
Hence why I said was backhanded and disguised with a bunch of flowery jargon and d

Anyway, my point is that people would be more receptive to your argument that the vid is badwrong if you cut down on the ridiculous hyperboles and insults.
I'd have been more amicable to Homberguy's video if he'd done the same, but given the first twenty minutes left me bored, angry and annoyed at all of that along with its generally low quality, that is sadly not the world we live in.
 
Also... Oh gosh you're one of those people who hates Ilia aren't you?
What?

No, seriously, what?

When I said "Ilia", I wasn't saying "hurr durr bad character".

I was saying "Ilia was the first LGBT+ character in the show and she was introduced as a villain who's motivation is that she's in love with her friend who didn't love her back, this is why she's a villain for 90% of the season, and that's really fucking bad".

That's the kind of criticism that I've seen, and that's the kind of criticism that I give.
You're making a lot of salacious and also very strange claims here with no actual backing. Also the Faunus plotline... Isn't the entire story? like, you do know that Salem is the main plot right now, right? This is apparently something else he did, conflating Blake's plot as being the main plot when she's, you know, one of our main characters in an ensemble cast series. I mean Nami's boobs growing constantly for fanservice sounds way skeevier and shittier than anything I've seen RWBY do.
Okay, it'd be nice if you mentioned those claims.

Also, Salem is the main plot right now, sure, but a significant part of that plot involved Salem taking advantage of the racial tensions that exist between humans and faunus to exacerbate things. We're currently in Atlas, where one of the main villains who worked with Salem is Jacques Schnee, who is responsible for the literal fucking branding of faunus workers in his dust mines. The faunus stuff doesn't disappear because it's not front and center, and the fact that it's not the main plot doesn't mean that it's not a constant thing or that it's not a problem when you accidentally make it clear that the White Fang are completely justified in violent revolution, because holy shit, they're literally being enslaved and branded by humans.

Nami's boobs getting bigger for fanservice is not even fucking remotely on the same level as RWBY teasing LGBT+ rep and not having delivered outside of Ilia and Jaune's sister, not is it remotely on the same level as trying to do a thinly veiled metaphor for racism using predominantly white people with animal features and then handling it in as clumsily "white person describing racism" away as possible, while also portraying the Faunus rising up against unjust oppression as literal faceless goons that the protagonists can beat up by the dozens without worry.
I'd not trust a word they are saying about the marketing there if I were you given their claims are entirely false.


This is an AfterBuzz interview with Monty from 2014 where his response to being asked if there will be queer rep in RWBY is to suggest that they're already there in the show, and that it'll be revealed as it goes on.



Here's a video where various VAs from the show promise that there'll be more queer rep going forward, 2016.



Here's a post that quotes Barbara advertising that there'll be more queer rep in Season 6, 2018.


It's 2020. The earliest of those videos is from 2014.

We have Ilia, and we have Jaune's sister.

That's it.

Tell me again I'm lying about them promising queer rep and not delivering?

@Gears for the record, up top is the stuff I was talking about when I mentioned selling itself on having queer rep.
 
Last edited:
I'd not trust a word they are saying about the marketing there if I were you given their claims are entirely false.
Even if it was not the intention or actual fault of the producers to queer-bait or build up the faunus as a big deal or something, it's not inconceivable that that did happen regardless, leading into the kind of tweets you posted here, the ardent flamewar we seem to be getting now and stellarseeker having to nope out of the thread.
 
What?

No, seriously, what?

When I said "Ilia", I wasn't saying "hurr durr bad character".

I was saying "Ilia was the first LGBT+ character in the show and she was introduced as a villain who's motivation is that she's in love with her friend who didn't love her back, this is why she's a villain for 90% of the season, and that's really fucking bad".

That's the kind of criticism that I've seen, and that's the kind of criticism that I give.
... That's literally not Ilia's character though? Like, legit, her thing is having her justified anger at human bigotry manipulated and inflamed by Adam & the Albain's to coerce a form of cultish devotion to their ideology out of her. She literally tries to get Blake to leave Menagerie because she cares about her.
Okay, it'd be nice if you mentioned those claims.

Also, Salem is the main plot right now, sure, but a significant part of that plot involved Salem taking advantage of the racial tensions that exist between humans and faunus to exacerbate things. We're currently in Atlas, where one of the main villains who worked with Salem is Jacques Schnee, who is responsible for the literal fucking branding of faunus workers in his dust mines. The faunus stuff doesn't disappear because it's not front and center, and the fact that it's not the main plot doesn't mean that it's not a constant thing or that it's not a problem when you accidentally make it clear that the White Fang are completely justified in violent revolution, because holy shit, they're literally being enslaved and branded by humans.

Nami's boobs getting bigger for fanservice is not even fucking remotely on the same level as RWBY teasing LGBT+ rep and not having delivered outside of Ilia and Jaune's sister, not is it remotely on the same level as trying to do a thinly veiled metaphor for racism using predominantly white people with animal features and then handling it in as clumsily "white person describing racism" away as possible, while also portraying the Faunus rising up against unjust oppression as literal faceless goons that the protagonists can beat up by the dozens without worry.
Your claims about the LGBT+ marketing.

You mean via Cinder who was in control of Adam who only cares about gaining power and murdering people and was just using the White Fang for said goals? Like no one's saying the WF plot was handled perfectly, least of all me, most of my fics focus on Sienna after all but its still not the main plot, heck Roman was the main antagonist for most of the early series, the WF were just conscripted into his service by force.

You seem to be confusing "Developing a relationship" with "Teasing" and that's all 'll say on that.

and we have Jaune's sister
And her wife, just saying.

Also this is another thing CRWBY have copped to and said they are working on improving anyway. Also answering questions in interviews isn't advertising.
Even if it was not the intention or actual fault of the producers to queer-bait or build up the faunus as a big deal or something, it's not inconceivable that that did happen regardless, leading into the kind of tweets you posted here, the ardent flamewar we seem to be getting now and stellarseeker having to nope out of the thread.
I'd like to nope out of the thread but the idea of this place being dominate by hbomberguy fans who only want to complain about the show is frankly too horrid to consider, I liked it here before today, now its just miserable.

To you personally??? Again, I only have you word to go on the Patreon stuff, you can't use an anecdote I didn't witness to justify the bad argumentation I can see in this thread now.
I meant in regards to his video on RWBY and the rest is totally disconnected from anything we were discussing.

Stellar argument (Rolls eyes)
 
That's a very toxic and possessive feeling you have. This isn't your thread...

If you can't do that some people have a difference of opinion then perhaps you should take a breather
I never said it was, but that doesn't mean I can't dislike the prospect of it coming to be filled with constant bad takes and complaints about a series I came her to discuss and enjoy.

I'm more than happy to engage with people who have different opinions to me, this isn't that however.
 
... That's literally not Ilia's character though? Like, legit, her thing is having her justified anger at human bigotry manipulated and inflamed by Adam & the Albain's to coerce a form of cultish devotion to their ideology out of her. She literally tries to get Blake to leave Menagerie because she cares about her.
That's part of her character, yes, but it's also a significant part of it that she's angry because she's in love with Blake and part of her motivation in the season is her continued feelings for someone who, at that point, was pretty much written as being straight. That's a shitty look for a first LGBT+ character.
You mean via Cinder who was in control of Adam who only cares about gaining power and murdering people and was just using the White Fang for said goals? Like no one's saying the WF plot was handled perfectly, least of all me, most of my fics focus on Sienna after all but its still not the main plot, heck Roman was the main antagonist for most of the early series, the WF were just conscripted into his service by force.
It still happened. It's still handled badly. It's still worthy of criticism. Hell, the fact that they're introducing such intense racism and horrible crimes motivated by racism and not making them a huge deal is something to criticise too!
Also this is another thing CRWBY have copped to and said they are working on improving anyway. Also answering questions in interviews isn't advertising.
They've been "working on improving" since 2014. That's six years ago.

I'm gonna be real, you've talked about how you'd be perfectly willing to listen to criticism if people were nice about it, but I'm giving you actual reasoned criticism based on the show I've watched and how they've marketed the show and you're flat out ignoring it, or saying that it's totally fine because they've promised they'll improve, like they did back in 2014.

If they, in an interview, promise to have more queer rep, that's advertising. That's a quote that will be taken from the interview and rocketed around the internet at lightspeed. It'll be posted to tumblr, to 4chan, to reddit, to forums like SV and SB, and it'll be talked about and speculated about and argued about for weeks before the actual product comes out. I know this because I've been following the show since Season 1 when I was in secondary school and that is what happened when they did that. You do not get to pretend that promising queer rep in an interview, knowing this quote will be shared around the world within minutes, is not something that promotes the show and gets people to watch it, especially queer people desperate for representation who will watch shows that promise it to them.

Since 2014, where Monty implied that existing characters were queer, we've had three queer characters. All of them were cis women, all of them were lesbians, none of them were existing characters. It has been six years.

Working on improving is something you do after you screw up your first season and then fix it in the next. It is not something you do by merrily animating six years' worth of RWBY and giving three queer characters, only one of whom was a major player for one season.

Digging your heels in and pretending that they didn't sell RWBY on queer rep to some extent when I gave three videos where they do just that, from six, four, and two years ago is ridiculous. Arguing that the WF plot doesn't matter because it's not the main plot is ridiculous. Insisting that I'm a liar because you categorically refuse to engage with my criticisms is ridiculous.

And, frankly, your insistence on saving this thread from the terror of a video you refuse to watch because you've consumed it secondhand from biased fans and have decided it's poorly written, researched, and argued and will fill this thread with bad takes is equally ridiculous.
 
Last edited:
That's a very toxic and possessive feeling you have. This isn't your thread...

If you can't do that some people have a difference of opinion then perhaps you should take a breather
It isn't Zam's thread, or at least shouldn't be. It isn't in the possession of critique videos either though. Unfortunately there's no balance in it. If you go through this entire thread you'll find that the thread is either a hub for sharing content and discussing things happening in the episodes or a flame-war. People coming in to post about a review tends to result into the latter, intentions good or bad. It's not exactly discourse per-se. It's not solely due to "butthurt fans" either, as some people like to claim. And while I would not condone zam's method of arguing, I can understand where the fatigue comes from.

Ralson in the end was right when posting that pop team epic picture. People who've watched the thread for more significant amounts of times know the patterns it goes through, most people here through the Hbomber video do not. They're not to blame for that per-se, but it realistically results in a lot of people either just stopping to engage (see: literally every other person not Zam who was originally talking here) and waiting for it all to blow over, or becoming like Zam.

@Gears for the record, up top is the stuff I was talking about when I mentioned selling itself on having queer rep.
Also yeah, intentional or not that really does set up expectations.
 
Also bringing this back cos it seemed to get ignored, but if yall are gonna cancel Miles and Kerry for a joke then this is way worse:

Also given people brought up Miles making a joke with a body pillow of Ruby, well I hate to do this, but remember when Hbomberguy gaslit one of his own employees because they were being harassed & he didn't want to deal with it? Just saying, if we're bringing outside bad behaviour, a shitty joke or line seems lower down on the totem pole that this shit:

Basic warning, one of his editors harassed another editor with very graphic messages tied to assault and Hbomb gaslighted the victim over it. r/TROLLXCOMMUNISM - Left Mods Response to Hbomberguy Revelations

Which reminds me of a point I had as just a brief aside but now I want to focus on more.

The false claim that Neptune & Jaune are self inserts cos the writers voice them and both characters tried to have and or had a brief 'thing' with Weiss (Whch amounted to failed flirting & one dance before being dumped).

How come that comes up constantly, but never once in the past did the fact Monty Oum helped write the series and voice Ren who;s introductory scene involved a great deal of Nora being blatantly into him and talking about how great he is?

Now I don't think any of the characters were self inserts, so I'm not in anyway insulting any of them, but I do find the fact the latter never once comes up... Interesting.

Why its almost like the faux romance & self insert angles are just petty and totally unsubstantiated ways to insult and demean two of the writers both as people and in their work rather than anything that has any grounding in fact.

And then a couple secondary characters who went to Vacuo were mentioned to be in the spinoffs
I mean they have whole novels to themselves so that's actually kind of a big deal to be honest. Also Penny is trans coded and amazing.

That's part of her character, yes, but it's also a significant part of it that she's angry because she's in love with Blake and part of her motivation in the season is her continued feelings for someone who, at that point, was pretty much written as being straight. That's a shitty look for a first LGBT+ character.
Again, literally not her character, you seem to confused an anguished declaration of love for violent intent which honestly just makes me further doubt your takes on reviews given how blatantly not in tune with the show you are watching you are. Also if you think Blake "I just stare at my partners ass while she's working" Belladonna was coded as straight then I have a bridge to sell you.

It still happened. It's still handled badly. It's still worthy of criticism. Hell, the fact that they're introducing such intense racism and horrible crimes motivated by racism and not making them a huge deal is something to criticise too!
And they have been? Again, his review is either made up of false claims or stuff long since discussed and moved passed, I might as well go back and talk about how offensive early DB was for all the relevance it has to Super.

hey've been "working on improving" since 2014. That's six years ago.

I'm gonna be real, you've talked about how you'd be perfectly willing to listen to criticism if people were nice about it, but I'm giving you actual reasoned criticism based on the show I've watched and how they've marketed the show and you're flat out ignoring it, or saying that it's totally fine because they've promised they'll improve, like they did back in 2014.

If they, in an interview, promise to have more queer rep, that's advertising. That's a quote that will be taken from the interview and rocketed around the internet at lightspeed. It'll be posted to tumblr, to 4chan, to reddit, to forums like SV and SB, and it'll be talked about and speculated about and argued about for weeks before the actual product comes out. I know this because I've been following the show since Season 1 when I was in secondary school and that is what happened when they did that. You do not get to pretend that promising queer rep in an interview, knowing this quote will be shared around the world within minutes, is not something that promotes the show and gets people to watch it, especially queer people desperate for representation who will watch shows that promise it to them.

Since 2014, where Monty implied that existing characters were queer, we've had three queer characters. All of them were cis women, all of them were lesbians, none of them were existing characters. It has been six years.

Working on improving is something you do after you screw up your first season and then fix it in the next. It is not something you do by merrily animating six years' worth of RWBY and giving three queer characters, only one of whom was a major player for one season.

Digging your heels in and pretending that they didn't sell RWBY on queer rep to some extent when I gave three videos where they do just that, from six, four, and two years ago is ridiculous. Arguing that the WF plot doesn't matter because it's not the main plot is ridiculous. Insisting that I'm a liar because you categorically refuse to engage with my criticisms is ridiculous.

And, frankly, your insistence on saving this thread from the terror of a video you refuse to watch because you've consumed it secondhand from biased fans and have decided it's poorly written, researched, and argued and will fill this thread with bad takes is equally ridiculous.
And they've gotten better.

No you've shouted a bunch of accusations, conflated interviews with advertisements, blatantly misunderstood one of the major characters involved in Blake's arc.

As noted the LGBT+ Cast is actually much larger than your claiming, also no interviews aren't advertising cos answering a question isn't an add.

that ain't better i'll be real

if it's not in the actual show itself it doesn't matter
All the people I follow on Tumblr and twitter most of whom are LGBT+ beg to differ, maybe don't proclaim yourself the sole representative of a large and diverse group of people.
 
lmao nobody talked about canceling anybody.

If only people could actually watch what the vid actually say about Jaune and Neptune, and how there are multiple caveats to the claims, they would see "Jaune/Neptune are SIs" isn't even the main thrust of the argument, it's that the screentime could have been better used to set up other stuff like the Volume 2 finale.

But overly focusing on minor details over the larger points seem to be the style for some, so...
I meant in regards to his video on RWBY and the rest is totally disconnected from anything we were discussing.
Unlike what some of the Internet randos you keep posting hot takes from imply, hbomberguy is actually amicable in said video.

For goodness' sake, it's "X Is Disappointing" instead of "X Is Garbage" as is usually the case, that should make it clear the intent is not about being unfair and uncharitable.
Stellar argument (Rolls eyes)
You just said it's "low quality" without specifying how, which is a very bizarre claim to make of Hbomber's videos, which tend to be well polished visually, even if the content isn't to your liking.

This is made funnier by the fact that what follows the 20 minutes you stopped watching is a very well made animated section.
 
Last edited:
Dear goodness please no, if I have to hear again how you can't do dynamic action on a moving train I think I'll cry.

Fair enough, that got added after he took the video down as it wasn't in the original cut, though given he didn't readjust the rest of the video it sounds like a very minor admission despite Monty's heavy influence on the writing and him blaming Miles & Kerry for basically everything.

They weren't though, Jaune was consistently rejected & nothing came of it, and Mercury managed to get one dance with Wess before being dumped & was a butt monkey both before and after that. Plus if you're gonna accuse them of that, then by that logic Ren was Monty Oum's self insert so he could date Nora, but homberguy didn't say that cos it'd ruin his narrative.

- He didn't say that, he said he thought trains were more limited for action scenes and that it resulted in a less good fight than the one in the previous trailers.

- As I said, he could've criticized Monty more, but that doesn't absolve Kerry and Miles.

- "Romantic plotlines" was my shortcut for "weird useless plotlines in which they try to seduce one of the MCs". They still took too much space by... uh... existing, and the seduction attempts can be seen as potentially problematic.

He knew fullwell said people would be gleefully weaponizing his video to harass people, his own producer admitted it and basically said "We've taken it into consideration" which is effectively meaningless & just cos he's left leaning doesn't mean he doesn't have subconscious issues with women, his treatment of his own staff indicates there are some issues there.
Didn't he apologize over this ?

I would except once your banned you can't access Patreon posts :/ Also, OK hold up, why is Hbomberguy being treated as some unbiased source in this, he went to lengths to say how much he dislikes the show going into this review, why are his views not being dismissed as biased, but those who like the show pointing out literal research failures on his part are being dismissed for bias?

His entire video is being rude to people who like RWBY and people keep coming onto a RWBY thread saying how great it is, forgive me for not enjoying a veritable invasion of insults.
Fair enough, but then you can't expect us to believe you. And I'm not saying Hbomb is unbiased or that you have to be completely unbiased to criticize him, I'm saying your judgement of the video is dubious due to your personal bias over Hbomb banning you on Patreon, and the fact that you keep only quoting people who agree with you. I also consider those people's judgements to be dubious due to the fact that they already seem angry right after starting the video and the fact that they focus on minor points.

And sorry, but I don't see where he's being rude towards the fans. He's being rude towards the show and very snarky towards the writers, but he doesn't seem to disrespect the fans. As for people using this video to harass fans... well that's not really in his control. I guess he could've put a disclaimer, but the video doesn't seem like "good" harrassing material anyway. Of course, people can always link to it and yell "that's why you're wrong for liking it !" at fans, but that's true for every form of media critique ever made.

He literally says the people working on RWBY are wasting their talents, currently, he's judging the whole show. Also I ask again, why are you here if you don't watch the show, why not talk about how clever Hbomberguy is for having the same problems you had with it in the youtube comments section of his video rather than getting into an argument defending his video on a forum channel you have no reason to use.
I'm not wasting several hours of my life on something I think is trash, if only hobomberguy had the maturity to do the same and move on with his life.
Ok, to be clearer, he does state his opinion of the show as a whole, but the rest of the video is specifically to address the issues of vol 1-3.
As for why I'm here, well, I'm a big fan of hbomberguy's work and I agreed with what he said, having been previously disappointed by RWBY myself, and wanted to see what people on SV thought of it. The first posts responding to it derided the video by focusing on a minor point based on second-hand criticism that misrepresented that point, so I wanted to try and defend it.
 
Also if you think Blake "I just stare at my partners ass while she's working" Belladonna was coded as straight then I have a bridge to sell you.
I don't give a single shit about coding at this point. Blake's sole romantic interactions when Ilia was introduced were a past relationship with Adam and teasing with Sun. It has been six years. What exactly stopped them from giving Blake and Yang a kiss this season like they did for Ren and Nora? What exactly stopped them from confirming that Clover was gay? What exactly has kept them from giving us the payoff to the implication that the existing cast in 2014 had queer characters in it?
And they have been? Again, his review is either made up of false claims or stuff long since discussed and moved passed, I might as well go back and talk about how offensive early DB was for all the relevance it has to Super.
So...what, because it was criticised once, it can't ever be again? My criticisms of the show, which you accused of being entirely focused about stuff from seven years ago, are now suddenly not valid even when they're more recent because they're not literally the newest thing?
And they've gotten better.

No you've shouted a bunch of accusations, conflated interviews with advertisements, blatantly misunderstood one of the major characters involved in Blake's arc.

As noted the LGBT+ Cast is actually much larger than your claiming, also no interviews aren't advertising cos answering a question isn't an add.
Yeah, no.

They've gotten better, in the sense that they have more queer characters than they used to. All cis lesbians, by the way, only one of whom is a major character for even a little bit, and the rest of the rep is locked away in side material that I didn't even know existed because I follow the show, not novels or games or whatnot.

You're categorically insisting that interviews are not advertising, despite me explaining exactly how it happens. I've seen this happen. Can you honestly, in good faith, tell me that you feel that some of RWBY's hype doesn't come from teasing queer rep that is then not paid off? I'm not talking about coding, I'm not talking about teasing, I'm not talking about baiting. I'm talking about actual, genuine payoffs, declarations of love, kisses, explicit confirmation on screen in the show itself that characters are queer.

Because that hasn't happened. No major characters are queer. MLM don't exist. Trans characters don't exist. Ace characters don't exist.

Quite frankly if you're going to die on the hill of "advertising must only include actual advertisements and interviews don't count at all" then I'm done.

EDIT:
All the people I follow on Tumblr and twitter most of whom are LGBT+ beg to differ, maybe don't proclaim yourself the sole representative of a large and diverse group of people.
I'm a bisexual man. I'll stay mad about me and other men attracted to men not existing in RWBY, if it's all the same to you.
 
Last edited:
Oh also aside on the Faunus stuff:

Unlike what some of the Internet randos you keep posting hot takes from, hbomberguy is actually amicable in said video.

For goodness' sake, it's "X Is Disappointing" instead of "X Is Garbage" as is usually the case should make it clear the intent is not about being unfair and uncharitable.
Ah yes, opening it with insults about the writers in the first thirty seconds, very amicable, so chill and polite (rolls eyes)

A title does not the product make.
You just said it's "low quality" without specifying how, which is a very bizarre claim to make of Hbomber's videos, which tend to be well polished visually, even if the content isn't to your liking.

This is made funnier by the fact that what follows the 20 minutes you stopped watching is a very well made animated section.
I and many others have outlined why its low quality and been roundly dismissed by you and others who like his video, you're more than free to scroll back through past pages to look at the various reviews to see why I and others feel that way if you like, I'mnot obliged to remake my argument timeserver I want to make an observation when I such posts explaining that were already made on the same day.

I couldn't watch passed that the first 20 minutes is all that got showed to patrons before I was kicked & I don't feel like giving him algorithm boosts just to watch him go "Show bad", "Everyone except Monty Oum and Shane bad!" and "Its ATLA but bad!" over and over again.

- He didn't say that, he said he thought trains were more limited for action scenes and that it resulted in a less good fight than the one in the previous trailers.

- As I said, he could've criticized Monty more, but that doesn't absolve Kerry and Miles.

- "Romantic plotlines" was my shortcut for "weird useless plotlines in which they try to seduce one of the MCs". They still took too much space by... uh... existing, and the seduction attempts can be seen as potentially problematic.
And he's blatantly wrong given fighting atop trains is a popular and exciting thing in action and he failed to in anyway show how it diminished the quality of the trailer. Just saying that isn't enough you actually need an argument to back it up, otherwise is pseudo intellectual jargon, a thesis statement without an essay or sources.

No one said it did, but the fact of the matter is he obviously reverse Monty Oum, even explaining in one of his posts how Monty Oum had inspired him and with his passing it dashed many things in him, this was obviously very personally motivated, not evidence motivated.

Again, this was by and large Monty Oum's idea.

Didn't he apologize over this ?
The link I provided notes he "Apologized" after being loudly and publicly called out and that it was an extremely shit apology.

Fair enough, but then you can't expect us to believe you. And I'm not saying Hbomb is unbiased or that you have to be completely unbiased to criticize him, I'm saying your judgement of the video is dubious due to your personal bias over Hbomb banning you on Patreon, and the fact that you keep only quoting people who agree with you. I also consider those people's judgements to be dubious due to the fact that they already seem angry right after starting the video and the fact that they focus on minor points.

And sorry, but I don't see where he's being rude towards the fans. He's being rude towards the show and very snarky towards the writers, but he doesn't seem to disrespect the fans. As for people using this video to harass fans... well that's not really in his control. I guess he could've put a disclaimer, but the video doesn't seem like "good" harrassing material anyway. Of course, people can always link to it and yell "that's why you're wrong for liking it !" at fans, but that's true for every form of media critique ever made.
You can believe whatever you want, just as I can believe those who have watched his video and say its mostly either done to death topics and badly researched jabs. Again, he's just as biased, why am I being dismissed for bias, but his review isn't?

You mean besides saying he doesn't think anyone has ever thought critically about the show, thinks everyone involved is wasting their time thinks those watching are foolishly clinging onto it hoping it gets good, ETC. The act he knew it would be used as such and still made it is kind of the problem in itself, he was wholly aware alt right jackasses would jump on it so they can use it to justify harassing vulnerable and marginalized fans, but apparently him getting to rant about a show he doesn't like is more important than the real harm people will use his content to do.

Ok, to be clearer, he does state his opinion of the show as a whole, but the rest of the video is specifically to address the issues of vol 1-3.
As for why I'm here, well, I'm a big fan of hbomberguy's work and I agreed with what he said, having been previously disappointed by RWBY myself, and wanted to see what people on SV thought of it. The first posts responding to it derided the video by focusing on a minor point based on second-hand criticism that misrepresented that point, so I wanted to try and defend it.
Yeah, so again, he's using the first three volumes to judge the entire series.
They're not secondhand if the sources come directly from the video.
I don't give a single shit about coding at this point.

Blake's sole romantic interactions when Ilia was introduced were a past relationship with Adam and teasing with Sun. It has been six years. What exactly stopped them from giving Blake and Yang a kiss this season like they did for Ren and Nora? What exactly stopped them from confirming that Clover was gay? What exactly has kept them from giving us the payoff to the implication that the existing cast in 2014 had queer characters in it?
You might as well say "I don't give a shit about show don't tell".

Sun the guy who was super into her but she only kinda vaguely let tag along with her, yeah no that;s not a thing. Also calling what she had with Adam when he groomed her from childhood and abused her a relationship is pretty damned suspect of you. You mean besides the fact they presumably don't want to have it be thrown in as something minor and unimportant but want it to be big and dramatic and, you know, matter plot and character wise because this is a story and that kind of thing matters.

As to Clover there's a good post on this.


So...what, because it was criticised once, it can't ever be again? My criticisms of the show, which you accused of being entirely focused about stuff from seven years ago, are now suddenly not valid even when they're more recent because they're not literally the newest thing?
The point is that its been done to death so its not contributing anything new or worthwhile that others haven't said more succinctly and demonstrates that he's unwilling to acknowledge the show has grown because that goes against his "I don't like it and you shouldn't like it either" narrative.
Yeah, no.

They've gotten better, in the sense that they have more queer characters than they used to. All cis lesbians, by the way, only one of whom is a major character for even a little bit, and the rest of the rep is locked away in side material that I didn't even know existed because I follow the show, not novels or games or whatnot.

You're categorically insisting that interviews are not advertising, despite me explaining exactly how it happens. I've seen this happen. Can you honestly, in good faith, tell me that you feel that some of RWBY's hype doesn't come from teasing queer rep that is then not paid off? I'm not talking about coding, I'm not talking about teasing, I'm not talking about baiting. I'm talking about actual, genuine payoffs, declarations of love, kisses, explicit confirmation on screen in the show itself that characters are queer.

Because that hasn't happened. No major characters are queer. MLM don't exist. Trans characters don't exist. Ace characters don't exist.

Quite frankly if you're going to die on the hill of "advertising must only include actual advertisements and interviews don't count at all" then I'm done.
Wow a show with a women dominated cast and that is about women has WLW rep, color me shocked. Also you not knowing about the novels is your own fault it doesn't erase them from canon or wider series.

You saying it doesn't make it true, also you're awfully judgy on this for a show that isn't even like, half over yet.

Penny is literally trans-coded and also literally trans given the soul aspect. Also May Marigold is Trans so you're either ill informed or lying.

I'm a bisexual man. I'll stay mad about me and other men attracted to men not existing in RWBY, if it's all the same to you.
Your call, but that's you, you don't get to speak for everyone else.
 
You might as well say "I don't give a shit about show don't tell".

I have literally no skin in this game - I don't care about RWBY either way. It may, for what I know, the best show on the planet. But this claim? The claim that coding is equivalent to show don't tell?

This strikes me as, at best, uniformed.

The reason for that is blatantly simple. Queer coding exists for reasons that are other than just attempting to subtly indicate something about a character. The very fact that this term functions the way it does in pop media criticism is a legacy of the fact that for the longest time - and to a significant degree, even know - queer relationships, identities, thoughts and experiences could not be depicted in media directly. This meant that if they were to be shown at all, they had to be coded. Ciphered in. And the reason for why it is an issue is blatantly obvious: if something is coded, you need to know the code to recognise it.

Queer coding existed, in no small part, to contain queer lives within a ciphered, shadow-world of plausible deniability in representation.

And since you can't really take fiction out of the historical and social context of both its creation and its reception, the frustration with queer coding isn't an issue of some transcendental standard of good or bad writing, it is an issue of whether a certain set of experiences and people is allowed to exist openly, or forced to survive encoded. The demand to make queerness explicit in media - to make gays and lesbians and bisexuals and trans people exist openly under those names, without being veiled by implication and obscured by narrative smoke and mirrors, is therefore nothing short of a demand to be allowed the same privilege of visibility and recognition that is implicitly granted to heterosexuality, cis-gender identities and other examples of the normative. Because for quite a lot of queer people, being tolerated as a shadowy, easily disavowed presence is not enough: under conditions of underrepresentation and a lingering threat of erasure, nothing short of explicit visibility will do.
 
"RWBY is a show where the heroes beat up racial minorities fighting for equal rights." (paraphrased)

I love hbomberguy.
 
You know, I saw a comment on the RWBY fandom in another thread recently

They can do whatever they want, their remaining fanbase are unthinking fanatics who treat the show like a religion where the holy canon is perfect.

When I saw that, my first thought was "Have you ever actually met a RWBY fan? Like, ever?"

Because, as the last three pages have shown, RWBY fans do almost nothing but argue about RWBY's quality. We're like the Star Wars fandom.
 
Ah yes, opening it with insults about the writers in the first thirty seconds, very amicable, so chill and polite (rolls eyes)

A title does not the product make.
Ah yes, do we add "tone policing" to the list of spurious fig leaves for why you won't watch the video you're criticizing? Listening to you, it's like the video should have been a dry recounting in a polite and deferential tone with absolutely zero jokes.

"Amicable" does not mean overly polite. The joke of going "two…" and not saying "writers" barely amount to light hearted ribbing. It does not mean he does not respect them either because he talks about the good job they did on Red vs. Blue and later explore in details the problems with RWBY's writing instead of going "writers bad". If you want to a video where he is "mean" to a show's writer, the Sherlock video is a better example (and even then).

And for all of that, HB made this joke, but he didn't insult the writers by calling them "unhinged", "pathetic", or "hateful". Now, who did that, I wonder?
and been roundly dismissed by you and others who like his video, you're more than free to scroll back through past pages to look at the various reviews to see why I and others feel that way if you like, I'mnot obliged to remake my argument timeserver I want to make an observation when I such posts explaining that were already made on the same day.
I can't dismiss an argument I haven't read, lol.

But you know, there's this formidable and revolutionary forum function. It's called "Quote", and, good news, you can even use it for yourself if you don't want to repeat something you've already said! Isn't that marvelous?

An example below:
I don't feel like giving him algorithm boosts just to watch him go "Show bad", "Everyone except Monty Oum and Shane bad!" and "Its ATLA but bad!" over and over again.
Nobody is putting a gun to your head telling you to, but there is no reason why we should listen to you when you are coming at it not from the perspective of debunking him, but outright abusing logical fallacies (because they outright are) and bad faith to discredit and misrepresent what is said without actually focusing on the arguments made.
Wow, I didn't have to repeat an argument I've already made! The internet is so handy.

Sarcasm aside, it all comes back to this: if you haven't watched it and don't plan to, why should you have any worth as a critic of it and why should people listen to you?
 
Last edited:
Back
Top