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RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • Azecreth said:
    Admittedly most of the cast are in school, so him having more 'experience' is hardly surprising.
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    True but this was Glynda talking to Ironwood so I'm not sure that applies :)

    Azecreth said:
    Still, with stuff like this, and Glynda's magic reset button, and all the crazy stuff we've seen in the show, someone remind me why Humanity is still confined to four theoretically small kingdoms? (Huntsmen are OP Hax. And the human forces we see don't seem weak or incompetent enough to completely offset that.) Yeah, we heard about how Mountain Glenn bought it, but that, combined with the Breach episode, has just really reduced my appreciation of the threat of the Grimm. So, I guess the true villains must be humanity themselves, or else the soulless evil abominations never would have gotten this far in the first place. I mean hell, they managed to fight a world war of sorts (Or two) while under siege by Grimm.

    Hopefully Volume 3 will restore the apparent threat level we hear, to what we actually see.
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    We don't know all the specifics yet but in some ways I think it might be a case of attrition, the Grim simply out number humans and Faunus to such a degree that even with all their OP haxx powers and tech they can't wipe them out before being overwhelmed or driven off and likely at great cost. This could also have happened over a long period, that is to say humans and Faunus were on the losing end throughout most of history because they genuinely couldn't keep up until recently but as they are now they simply aren't collectively strong enough to defeat the Grim. Plus, as you said people, internal or cross society feuding, may well hinder any attempt to wipe out the Grim.

    I usually assume the Grim also spawn very quickly making building new settlements hard and that entities like the goliaths are, A much more dangerous on their own, B work well as a team so even if one could be taken out by a Senior Aura User two cannot and a whole herd requires a whole team.
     
    Zam said:
    I have to ask, when has she used her appearance of flirting/teasing or anything like that to get an opening, did I miss it?
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    Zam said:
    I suppose for me 'ms fanservice' both has too many negative connotations that I cannot really see it ever being applied positively but also that I don't necessarily see these traits as being a form of fanservice.
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    That's why I was talking about Ms Fanservice "done well": while there is fanservice coming from her, it's just a tiny portion of her character and the series don't linger on it.


    Zam said:
    We don't know all the specifics yet but in some ways I think it might be a case of attrition, the Grim simply out number humans and Faunus to such a degree that even with all their OP haxx powers and tech they can't wipe them out before being overwhelmed or driven off and likely at great cost. This could also have happened over a long period, that is to say humans and Faunus were on the losing end throughout most of history because they genuinely couldn't keep up until recently but as they are now they simply aren't collectively strong enough to defeat the Grim. Plus, as you said people, internal or cross society feuding, may well hinder any attempt to wipe out the Grim.

    I usually assume the Grim also spawn very quickly making building new settlements hard and that entities like the goliaths are, A much more dangerous on their own, B work well as a team so even if one could be taken out by a Senior Aura User two cannot and a whole herd requires a whole team.
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    The attrition thing is implied by Velvet when team CFVY came back from their mission, she mentions that there was no end of them, which is why they came back one week late.
    And there's also the fact that since most Hunters in training hunts not far from Vale's walls, most Grimms from that area are young, and thus weak. It's very possible that there's some monstrously old and powerful Grimms living deeper in uncharted territory, the kind able to massacre whole professional teams and army divisions.
    Just the Goliaths that live relatively close to Vale's borders are 20 story tall and smart and strong enough that Oobleck strictly forbade team RWBY to go fight them, so imagine what kind of eldritch horrors must live several hundred kilometers farther in unexplored lands.
     
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    ElMariachi said:
    The attrition thing is implied by Velvet when team CFVY came back from there mission, she mentions that there was no end of them, which is why they came back one week late.
    And there's also the fact that since most Hunters in training hunts not far from Vale's walls, most Grimms from that area are young, and thus weak. It's very possible that there's some monstrously old and powerful Grimms living deeper in uncharted territory, the kind able to massacre whole professional teams and army divisions.
    Just the Goliaths that live relatively close to Vale's borders are 20 story tall and smart and strong enough that Oobleck strictly forbade team RWBY to go fight them, so imagine what kind of eldritch horrors must live several hundred kilometers farther in unexplored lands.
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    Yeah, I forget about that. And I suppose it's true. It's just another case of telling rather than really showing, since what we hear about how how much of a threat the Grimm are never matches up with what we see on screen due to how easily they get taken out, and we never see any running fights with Grimm beyond that first examination in the Emerald Forest. Even the Breach was relatively easily contained and eliminated, with no lasting property damage and no loss of life (And please note that there are no apparent injuries either, though I'd be willing to chalk this up to an animation thing more than anything else.)

    I dunno, I just hope that Volume 3 has at least one scene that reminds us why the Grimm are something to be worried about, at least for normal people if not murderhobo Huntsmen.
     
    Azecreth said:
    Yeah, I forget about that. And I suppose it's true. It's just another case of telling rather than really showing, since what we hear about how how much of a threat the Grimm are never matches up with what we see on screen due to how easily they get taken out, and we never see any running fights with Grimm beyond that first examination in the Emerald Forest. Even the Breach was relatively easily contained and eliminated, with no lasting property damage and no loss of life (And please note that there are no apparent injuries either, though I'd be willing to chalk this up to an animation thing more than anything else.)

    I dunno, I just hope that Volume 3 has at least one scene that reminds us why the Grimm are something to be worried about, at least for normal people if not murderhobo Huntsmen.
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    I worry that they won't be able to fit in a Grimm fight scene when they already have an entire tournament.

    However it would be cool if we got a scene like this with professor Port being unusually solemn while talking about a dangerous type of Grimm that was one of the only times in his life where he nearly died.

     
    ElMariachi said:
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    Again, the fact the flirting led straight into violence, I feel, undermines the "fanservice" aspect.

    ElMariachi said:
    That's why I was talking about Ms Fanservice "done well": while there is fanservice coming from her, it's just a tiny portion of her character and the series don't linger on it.
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    I guess we are working off different takes on the term.

    ElMariachi said:
    The attrition thing is implied by Velvet when team CFVY came back from their mission, she mentions that there was no end of them, which is why they came back one week late.
    And there's also the fact that since most Hunters in training hunts not far from Vale's walls, most Grimms from that area are young, and thus weak. It's very possible that there's some monstrously old and powerful Grimms living deeper in uncharted territory, the kind able to massacre whole professional teams and army divisions.
    Just the Goliaths that live relatively close to Vale's borders are 20 story tall and smart and strong enough that Oobleck strictly forbade team RWBY to go fight them, so imagine what kind of eldritch horrors must live several hundred kilometers farther in unexplored lands.
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    I didn't say otherwise did I? Or were you agreeing with me about attrition?
    I'm not so sure about the 'massacre whole teams of professional' Aura Users aspect but I mostly agree.
    Technically he said her sniper would just irritate them nothing more.
    Azecreth said:
    Yeah, I forget about that. And I suppose it's true. It's just another case of telling rather than really showing, since what we hear about how how much of a threat the Grimm are never matches up with what we see on screen due to how easily they get taken out, and we never see any running fights with Grimm beyond that first examination in the Emerald Forest. Even the Breach was relatively easily contained and eliminated, with no lasting property damage and no loss of life (And please note that there are no apparent injuries either, though I'd be willing to chalk this up to an animation thing more than anything else.)

    I dunno, I just hope that Volume 3 has at least one scene that reminds us why the Grimm are something to be worried about, at least for normal people if not murderhobo Huntsmen.
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    The train did have to leave early likely screwing how many Grim, and the relative size and power of said Grim, that they could bring in.
    I think it is shown, a bit, by the fact humans and Faunus have to live within what amount to walled cities, though yes it could be shown better.
     
    Zam said:
    Again, the fact the flirting led straight into violence, I feel, undermines the "fanservice" aspect.
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    That flirting and violence mixed is a form of fanservice too. But again there's thousands of different types and definitions of fanservice.


    Zam said:
    I didn't say otherwise did I? Or were you agreeing with me about attrition?
    I'm not so sure about the 'massacre whole teams of professional' Aura Users aspect but I mostly agree.
    Technically he said her sniper would just irritate them nothing more.
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    Yes, I was agreeing with you. ;)
     
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    Zam said:
    The train did have to leave early likely screwing how many Grim, and the relative size and power of said Grim, that they could bring in.
    I think it is shown, a bit, by the fact humans and Faunus have to live within what amount to walled cities, though yes it could be shown better.
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    I'm not even sure what that whole Breach plan was supposed to be anyway, so I'm going to leave that alone. Because from how I look at it it doesn't make sense.

    But yes, it definitely could. I'd like to see, I dunno, more efficient usage of space, in terms of architecture and the like, since being confined to a single area probably is not a good thing from a population perspective and housing people (Though it's a bit late to change that, at least in Vale). Or, say, shortages or some items that you just can't get because of how rare they are, what with the danger of having to go beyond the natural defenses to get them. I mean, it's apparent they don't do rationing or anything like that, but it would be nice to see (Mostly from the perspective of someone from outside of Vale, because what you'd be able to get in Atlas or Vacuo would differ from what you could get at Beacon.)

    But hey, that's what fanfiction is for. And it's not like anyone came here for the plot in the first place anyway :p
     
    ElMariachi said:
    That flirting and violence mixed is a form of fanservice too. But again there's thousands of different types and definitions of fanservice.
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    I think our takes on the word are too different for this discussion to make much sense XD

    ElMariachi said:
    Yes, I was agreeing with you. ;)
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    Ah OK then, thanks :D

    Azecreth said:
    I'm not even sure what that whole Breach plan was supposed to be anyway, so I'm going to leave that alone. Because from how I look at it it doesn't make sense.

    But yes, it definitely could. I'd like to see, I dunno, more efficient usage of space, in terms of architecture and the like, since being confined to a single area probably is not a good thing from a population perspective and housing people (Though it's a bit late to change that, at least in Vale). Or, say, shortages or some items that you just can't get because of how rare they are, what with the danger of having to go beyond the natural defenses to get them. I mean, it's apparent they don't do rationing or anything like that, but it would be nice to see (Mostly from the perspective of someone from outside of Vale, because what you'd be able to get in Atlas or Vacuo would differ from what you could get at Beacon.)
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    I assume it was to ruins Ozpin's rep, scare the locals and get Ironwood in charge due to Cinder's who 'Queen' thing she uploaded. Its also possible it was never intended to destroy Vale so it could also have just been an elaborate 'stop looking for the villain' plan which is why Roman is taking the credit, misdirection and all that, or a combination of those and other plans. Heck, maybe it was primarily a WF thing that Cinder just helped with to get their support for her own plans? Unlikely but still.

    Interesting ideas, my thinking on why this might not be the case is due to Vale potentially being insanely large by the standards of a "city" and our perspective characters all being in an area where they aren't likely to be denied much due to their position in the local hierarchy and Beacon giving them what they need. Though apparently Dust is running out and not just cos Roman is stealing it all.
     
    ElMariachi said:
    Mind to explain to an uninitiate what you're taking about? :oops:
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    Hiro Shimono plays Keima Katsuragi in The World God Only Knows, who has the catchphrase "I can see the ending!", is known as the God of Conquest for his amazing skill at dating sims, and claims at the beginning of the series to feel no attraction to real girls, only being interested in 2D girls (i.e. girls in dating sims).
     
    azoicennead said:
    Hiro Shimono plays Keima Katsuragi in The World God Only Knows, who has the catchphrase "I can see the ending!", is known as the God of Conquest for his amazing skill at dating sims, and claims at the beginning of the series to feel no attraction to real girls, only being interested in 2D girls (i.e. girls in dating sims).
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    Aren't there multiple Jaune as The Gamer fics? Hmm... I feel like you could do something with that...
     
    Azecreth said:
    I'm not even sure what that whole Breach plan was supposed to be anyway, so I'm going to leave that alone. Because from how I look at it it doesn't make sense.
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    Multiple objectives could be accomplished. You aren't looking at everything.

    1. The Train was supposed to have started days later. When most if not all the students and hunters would be away on missions.
    2. This would result in the breach not being contained as well as it was OTL.
    3. Discredit Ozpin. Thereby putting Ironwood in charge, and thus the security for Vale would be handled by the Atlas robots.
    4. Following the above, Cinder uploaded something into Atlas' network. This may even be some kind of worm or virus that when triggered would make the Atlas robots either shut off, fall under Cinder and co's control, or go berserk.
    5. This would consequently spread distrust between Vale and Atlas, as well as undermining Ironwood's plan/philosophy of taking the human element out of the battle against the Grimm.
     
    aceraptor said:
    Multiple objectives could be accomplished. You aren't looking at everything.

    1. The Train was supposed to have started days later. When most if not all the students and hunters would be away on missions.
    2. This would result in the breach not being contained as well as it was OTL.
    3. Discredit Ozpin. Thereby putting Ironwood in charge, and thus the security for Vale would be handled by the Atlas robots.
    4. Following the above, Cinder uploaded something into Atlas' network. This may even be some kind of worm or virus that when triggered would make the Atlas robots either shut off, fall under Cinder and co's control, or go berserk.
    5. This would consequently spread distrust between Vale and Atlas, as well as undermining Ironwood's plan/philosophy of taking the human element out of the battle against the Grimm.
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    Critical flaw; Why would Atlas use Vale's civilian communication network as a command and control system for their robots? As opposed to an isolated military system?

    Also, if it was supposed to do that, thwn why did they have all the men and material on the train? It was excessive if the train was just supposed to be a bomb/ram. And if it was a smuggling run with the Grimm as cover, how were they supposed to get it off before the giant horde of Grimm following then showed up?
     
    Azecreth said:
    Critical flaw; Why would Atlas use Vale's civilian communication network as a command and control system for their robots? As opposed to an isolated military system?
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    Was it a civilian network Cinder broke into? It seemed to be near Beacon considering Ruby wandered over there from the dance, and if it was at what is basically a specialized military school, it might have seemed a safe place to put an important node for a military system. Not safe enough, apparently, but still.
     
    Cornix Argentus said:
    Was it a civilian network Cinder broke into? It seemed to be near Beacon considering Ruby wandered over there from the dance, and if it was at what is basically a specialized military school, it might have seemed a safe place to put an important node for a military system. Not safe enough, apparently, but still.
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    That was the Communication Tower Weiss went to in episode 3 of volume 2. You know, the one basically any student could use.
     
    Azecreth said:
    That was the Communication Tower Weiss went to in episode 3 of volume 2. You know, the one basically any student could use.
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    That makes me think: are only students authorized to go in that communication tower? If so, how does the average people that have family in the other kingdoms communicates, or are the migrating flux so inexistent that it's not an issue?
     
    I'd say that the communications tower pulls double-duty as civilian and military. Risky, but when space is at a premium like in Remnant...
     
    Sucal said:
    The one important enough to be guarded by Atlas Soldiers rather then just security guards.
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    Just because it's a civilian network doesn't mean it isn't important. :p I just doubt that Atlas would use it for command and control operations.
     
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