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RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • thesevenwielder said:
    That was mostly a pretty good episode, but had a hell of an anticlimax. Like, the rest of the episode was good, but the resolution... a substandard ending can break even a good episode. It's not quite bad enough to ruin the rest of the episode, but still...

    The ship is officially sunk. No, I don't care what Chibi says. Chibi isn't canon. Apparently the Silver Eyes are activated by love but they didn't activate in response to Penny dying. Not even close friendship like the rest of her team.
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    Seems dubious. That fight didn't involve grim and did involve two of ruby's friends duelling it out. Or at least that's what they were supposed to do.

    Like i have no clue about any of the ships in this show since they never sail, seemingly on purpose, but the whole magic eye thing ain't the reason why.
     
    Zam said:
    Also Yang grabbing Blake's hand was cute, though why couldn't Weiss break out of the cellar?
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    RWBY compartmentalizes stats in a way that doesn't make sense sometimes. Like people who fight in close combat with large heavy melee weapons somehow not having arm/upper body strength

    But it could also be the apathy draining her energy, I doubt I could do much weight lifting or fighting after a week without sleep
     
    thesevenwielder said:
    That was mostly a pretty good episode, but had a hell of an anticlimax. Like, the rest of the episode was good, but the resolution... a substandard ending can break even a good episode. It's not quite bad enough to ruin the rest of the episode, but still...

    The ship is officially sunk. No, I don't care what Chibi says. Chibi isn't canon. Apparently the Silver Eyes are activated by love but they didn't activate in response to Penny dying. Not even close friendship like the rest of her team.
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    what are silver eyes supposed to do when there are no grimm or magic around?
     
    Krazyfan1 said:
    Stress and the effects of the Grimm?
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    Fair point, still kinda bugs me though.

    devilkingx2 said:
    RWBY compartmentalizes stats in a way that doesn't make sense sometimes. Like people who fight in close combat with large heavy melee weapons somehow not having arm/upper body strength

    But it could also be the apathy draining her energy, I doubt I could do much weight lifting or fighting after a week without sleep
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    Yeah it can be annoyingly inconstant, like, Weiss can hurt the knight with no Dust or Semblance despite its strength material and size but she then decides she needs the knight to break out of a little cage.
    Plausible, yeah.

    devilkingx2 said:
    what are silver eyes supposed to do when there are no grimm or magic around?
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    I mean, probably nothing.
     
    Hmm in grey/silver eyes tend associated with royalty in fiction with even some medieval fiction disturbing King Arthur as having them, also certain 'high' races of men and elves tend to have such eyes and healers also tend to have that eye color... also do a number of airplane aces and snipers in real life and fiction tend to have that sort of eye color.
     
    devilkingx2 said:
    The only thing I'm worried about from V6E6 is that they may have just confirmed...

    that silver eyes are going to be a nakama/friendship powerup a la:

    "The love of my friends prevents my mind from being read" (yugioh)

    "Thinking about my friends boosts my resolve so much that I can literally one-shot people who spent the last 3 episodes kicking my ass, implying that i wasn't really trying before and was about to die at 10% of my power for no reason" (bleach, multiple ichigo fights)

    And so on.

    Also I'm worried they're way overpowered and not cool enough. If It's just an instant death ray then it won't lead to epic moments, needs a better aesthetic than that. And if it's instant death all tension from grimm fights or cinder is gone, until they start arbitrarily running into grimm immune to silver eyes (like in Inuyasha where there was miraculously ALWAYS poison wasp demons to stop "miroku wind tunnel gg")

    Although I do find the idea interesting that maria lost her eyes due to their silverness. Whether that means you can fuck up and burn out your eyes (kaio-ken), or they burn out over time from use (mangekyo sharingan) or salem has tyrian and hazel gouge out their eyes (implied by volume 4)

    In any case it would deal with their overpoweredness since ruby wouldn't wanna go blind to kill a nevermore, it would be very unique and interesting

    Also cinder is definitely gonna die, maria will probably be killed by cinder, and neo will surrender/escape/be let go. Unless she joins the crew
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    I'm more worried about how
    people would meme this up and say "lol, Lancaster is confirmed because Ruby cared about Jaune enough for Silver Eyes than she did with Weiss" or "I guess she didn't love Penny that much".
     
    I was kind of joking with the whole Nuts and Dolts thing, but retcons do bring up some funny plotholes.

    @devilkingx2
    Was it ever stated they only react to the Grimm? Like apparently the bad guys have killed Silver-Eyed Warriors before and have said it isn't much trouble, so presumably the SEW have tried to use them on non-Grimm to no effect.
     
    thesevenwielder said:
    I was kind of joking with the whole Nuts and Dolts thing, but retcons do bring up some funny plotholes.

    @devilkingx2
    Was it ever stated they only react to the Grimm? Like apparently the bad guys have killed Silver-Eyed Warriors before and have said it isn't much trouble, so presumably the SEW have tried to use them on non-Grimm to no effect.
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    I mean they fucked Cinder up pretty hardcore. I think it's more to do with the fact that Penny's death, unlike all the other times mentioned, was basically an accident where Ruby herself wasn't actually in a battle. It seems like there's a little bit more to it than just "loved one in danger", otherwise they would've gone off several times in the last three episodes.
     
    VolantRedX said:
    I mean they fucked Cinder up pretty hardcore. I think it's more to do with the fact that Penny's death, unlike all the other times mentioned, was basically an accident where Ruby herself wasn't actually in a battle. It seems like there's a little bit more to it than just "loved one in danger", otherwise they would've gone off several times in the last three episodes.
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    Hell, it probably would have gone off during the train ride.
     
    Psyga315 said:
    Hell, it probably would have gone off during the train ride.
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    Or the nuckelavee fight. I think it has to be a combination of danger and Ruby having a sense of being helpless or weak. The three times we see it go off is in situations where not only are people she cares about in danger, but Ruby herself is also personally involved and unable to prevent her loved one's deaths/near deaths.
     
    VolantRedX said:
    I mean they fucked Cinder up pretty hardcore. I think it's more to do with the fact that Penny's death, unlike all the other times mentioned, was basically an accident where Ruby herself wasn't actually in a battle. It seems like there's a little bit more to it than just "loved one in danger", otherwise they would've gone off several times in the last three episodes.
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    Cinder seems to only have been affected because she's got Grimm hooked up to her for jacking the Maiden powers.
     
    Maybe. But that leads to the problem with all the separate magic systems introduced. They are so vaguely defined that it is impossible to tell how they work.

    Semblences? Tied to Aura, but then Yang activated hers in the Yellow trailer after it visibly breaks? Weiss doesn't learn to summon until v4, but then against BRNZ she creates a giant ice hand that actually clenches into a fist.

    Do Maidens have a limit to the magic they can throw about? Could you play the stalling game and wait for them to run out of mana or whatever? No idea.

    Qrow and Raven's transformations? How much effort does it take to change? Is there a limit to the number of times?

    Then take Dust. Miles claimed in an AMA that you couldn't just shoot lighting out of your hands with Electric Dust, but during the WoR: Dust video, one of the images is that of someone Palpatine-ing it up. How else does it work? Does water Dust literally generate water?

    We have no idea how any of this works. And while vague magic systems are not a problem when done right, there seem to be a half-dozen separate, unique magic systems in the show, and they have not bothered to explain any of it, and it really harms the story.
     
    thesevenwielder said:
    Maybe. But that leads to the problem with all the separate magic systems introduced. They are so vaguely defined that it is impossible to tell how they work.

    Semblences? Tied to Aura, but then Yang activated hers in the Yellow trailer after it visibly breaks? Weiss doesn't learn to summon until v4, but then against BRNZ she creates a giant ice hand that actually clenches into a fist.

    Do Maidens have a limit to the magic they can throw about? Could you play the stalling game and wait for them to run out of mana or whatever? No idea.

    Qrow and Raven's transformations? How much effort does it take to change? Is there a limit to the number of times?

    Then take Dust. Miles claimed in an AMA that you couldn't just shoot lighting out of your hands with Electric Dust, but during the WoR: Dust video, one of the images is that of someone Palpatine-ing it up. How else does it work? Does water Dust literally generate water?

    We have no idea how any of this works. And while vague magic systems are not a problem when done right, there seem to be a half-dozen separate, unique magic systems in the show, and they have not bothered to explain any of it, and it really harms the story.
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    It's almost as if the principal lore writer for the show died midway through the show's run and the new writers are working off half done notes and filling in what gaps they can with limited experience with doing either.
     
    VolantRedX said:
    It's almost as if the principal lore writer for the show died midway through the show's run and the new writers are working off half done notes and filling in what gaps they can with limited experience with doing either.
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    The man died four years ago. They have written three-and-a-half volumes since then. If they have not figured out how to define any of this by now, then there is literally no hope for them. This is not the defense you think it was.

    Also it's kind of awful for you to use a dead man as a scapegoat, doubly so when all signs pointed to him not being that great of a planner or scriptwriter anyway. He was a good animator with some good ideas, but that is about it. It sounds like he could not write a plot to save his life. And given all the disregard I see for Shane Newell's open letter about Monty's vision, and how many people say that the ideas that Monty put forth written in that letter are garbage, it seems awfully hypocritical for you to use his death as a defense.
     
    VolantRedX said:
    It's almost as if the principal lore writer for the show died midway through the show's run and the new writers are working off half done notes and filling in what gaps they can with limited experience with doing either.
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    I mean, by all indications Miles and Kerry are better writers than Monty was, at least on a technical level. Monty excelled at at the creative aspect of writing.
     
    thesevenwielder said:
    The man died four years ago. They have written three-and-a-half volumes since then. If they have not figured out how to define any of this by now, then there is literally no hope for them. This is not the defense you think it was.

    Also it's kind of awful for you to use a dead man as a scapegoat, doubly so when all signs pointed to him not being that great of a planner or scriptwriter anyway. He was a good animator with some good ideas, but that is about it. It sounds like he could not write a plot to save his life. And given all the disregard I see for Shane Newell's open letter about Monty's vision, and how many people say that the ideas that Monty put forth written in that letter are garbage, it seems awfully hypocritical for you to use his death as a defense.
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    So I was apparently not super clear here. My point was that things are going to inevitably going to be inconsistent since things that happened in the first three volumes were more or less written by a totally different person who the current team no longer have the capacity to contact or work with. Things aren't going to line up and soft retcons are going to have to happen. So if their current definitions don't line up with events in the past the reason is more than likely because they're choosing to ignore past examples in favor of getting shit to work in the current show.
     
    VolantRedX said:
    So I was apparently not super clear here. My point was that things are going to inevitably going to be inconsistent since things that happened in the first three volumes were more or less written by a totally different person who the current team no longer have the capacity to contact or work with. Things aren't going to line up and soft retcons are going to have to happen. So if their current definitions don't line up with events in the past the reason is more than likely because they're choosing to ignore past examples in favor of getting shit to work in the current show.
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    I mean, Miles and Kerry were working on it with Monty pretty much from the very beginning, so I'm not sure how much water that argument holds.

    If there's more consistency now, and if we have to argue that it's because Monty's gone, then it's probably because he's no longer around to suddenly get some random idea for new cool sh*t he wants to include like the Maidens, or removing all ambiguity surrounding Penny by giving her a big fight well before her "reveal" as a robot, solely for the reason that he thinks it would be cool to have.
     
    VolantRedX said:
    So I was apparently not super clear here. My point was that things are going to inevitably going to be inconsistent since things that happened in the first three volumes were more or less written by a totally different person who the current team no longer have the capacity to contact or work with. Things aren't going to line up and soft retcons are going to have to happen. So if their current definitions don't line up with events in the past the reason is more than likely because they're choosing to ignore past examples in favor of getting shit to work in the current show.
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    Not really. Monty pushed for some things, but it's pretty clear that Miles and Kerry were the ones running the show and he's just there to do the animation. Case in point: the Raven stinger in Volume 2.

    Yes, his death definitely shook up things, but for the animation department more than the writing department. It's why RWBY is more about talking than fighting now. It's easier to bash out fifteen minutes of people sitting in a room and listening to one person exposit or someone yelling at their mom than it is to animate a grand final battle.

    That said, there's still retcons even after new things were written after Monty's passing. I would list some examples, however, people are so fickle as to what a retcon is now that even if I did, someone's gonna go "UUUHHH ACTUALLY THAT'S NOT A RETCON!"

    But screw it, I guess I'll try anyways.

    In the first Volume released since Monty's passing, Volume 3, Aura had been retconned to be more visibly represented. Namely, its depletion would be visibly displayed. And it had to be because it needed to be used for multiple plot points. Namely, it's a tell for the viewers to go "OH NO! They might actually die this time!". So thus, because it's been used so many times to denote when someone is out of aura, people just assumed that's the way things go, especially after Word of God said that without aura, one cannot fuel their semblance.

    Then Yang's character short happened and showed her running out of aura... and having her Semblance kick in.

    Is it a retcon if the information being deleted in the first place wasn't established in the show (or even the info dump spinoff), but rather an AMA? Who knows at this point.

    And then there's retcons that completely erase the events of things that happened just last Volume. Case in point:

     
    thesevenwielder said:
    Semblences? Tied to Aura, but then Yang activated hers in the Yellow trailer after it visibly breaks? Weiss doesn't learn to summon until v4, but then against BRNZ she creates a giant ice hand that actually clenches into a fist.
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    The yang part: it's a nonsensical retcon/ignored plot point that aura and semblances are connected. It has literally NEVER been shown to work that way. Even the WoR on Aura implies that semblances can be used as a trump card once your aura is broken.

    The weiss part: life isn't fair. RWBY shares that with Bleach and Naruto. Some people are just born better than you, Weiss has like 19 semblances in 1, she can do damn near anything she wants. Her summoning ability only applies to familiars, not elemental constructs (so if she knew how to make a golem...)

    thesevenwielder said:
    Do Maidens have a limit to the magic they can throw about? Could you play the stalling game and wait for them to run out of mana or whatever? No idea.

    Qrow and Raven's transformations? How much effort does it take to change? Is there a limit to the number of times?
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    On the maidens: this was shown in the series already. Under normal circumstances there's no chance of this happening (every maiden has been shown at full magical power with a broken aura after a tough fight) but if the maiden is in particularly bad shape then they can struggle with their powers (V6E2 cinder)

    On Qrow and Raven:
    It has been shown that raven can go bird mode after an intense fight and Qrow can use it mid combat (V6E1) and also Qrow went from bird mode into a sprint into the tyrian fight. So... No known limits and not much effort.

    thesevenwielder said:
    Then take Dust. Miles claimed in an AMA that you couldn't just shoot lighting out of your hands with Electric Dust, but during the WoR: Dust video, one of the images is that of someone Palpatine-ing it up. How else does it work? Does water Dust literally generate water?
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    Being able to wield raw dust is considered a lost art remember?

    Ice dust seems to literally generate ice so... Yes? Why does that matter.
     
    devilkingx2 said:
    No we're saying that claiming adam is strong after cucking him so bad last season comes off like a "burter is the fastest in the universe" meme rather than a legitimate hyping.

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    I feel there's a difference between 'being strong' and being a threat. Adam wasn't much better than Blake in the trailer, he just has a broken Semblance and is underhanded, which creates the illusion of strength.
     
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