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RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • DarkKing98 said:
    You guys are aware The Apathy are just Ren's Semblance Grimmfied, right?
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    No. Ren's Semblance doesn't take away emotions, it just subsumes them under a sort of induced calm. No one affected by Ren's Semblance has ever just stopped caring about things and completely lost all will to live and self-preservation instinct.
     
    Zam said:
    Yes but that isn't a retcon.
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    Blakeb v6: "Adam's strong!"
    Blake, v5: *oneshots him, adam is panting and limping in short*

    That sounds like a retcon to me.

    Mook said:
    I find this really hilarious considering how you only post in this thread because you know its so inactive that no one can be arsed into putting any real effort into debunking your bullshit here.

    If you really want the best defense fans of this show can muster why don't you try posting in the main RWBY thread on SB for once?
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    "Yeah, go to the thread that is actively hostile against critics, they will argue for me, that'll show you!"

    Christ, man, do you even listen to yourself? Now listen up, kiddo, I am no stranger to the SB thread. I lurk. I know PRECISELY how it goes around there. And I know for a fact that any arguments there will be nearly identical to the ones here, the only difference is that I will get more people saying the same thing. I won't get any better arguments, I will only be shouted down. It isn't any form of cowardice, it's common fucking sense.



    One thing I really don't understand is why the writers keep trying to present the Grimm as creepy and threatening, when they clearly aren't. Sure they can harm normal civilians and nobodies but no one of actual importance has never been harmed by them at all. And we follow the viewpoint of these characters, who are the only ones who actually matter to the audience. They are basically a joke. Even the spoopiness of this episode didn't make them an actual threat. It tried, but then, well, total anticlimax. So again, I don't understand why these things are supposed to be threatening when no one treats them like a threat. Even in-universe, for the most part they are seen as a general nuisance, not an actual threat. Apparently the draw of the Relic isn't that strong according to Oz, but these passenger trains seem to be widely used and they hadn't suffered a Grimm attack capable of derailing a train until now. They are so much of a joke that Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum can try to trick people into hiring them for protection.


    @Slater how about Salem challenging Cinder, demanding to know if she actually killed Oz or not, and then acting with confusion and saying "What are you planning?" That implies she isn't fully aware of his reincarnating, which is counteracted in volume 5 when the bad guys reveal that they are aware of the reincarnation, and Salem doubly so in volume six.
     
    Leingod said:
    No. Ren's Semblance doesn't take away emotions, it just subsumes them under a sort of induced calm. No one affected by Ren's Semblance has ever just stopped caring about things and completely lost all will to live and self-preservation instinct.
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    In fact literally the first time we see it in action we see Ren use it to become MORE determined to fulfill his goals rather than less. His Semblance doesn't take away your will, rather it enhances it by letting you overcome your fear and anxiety without actually removing it.
     
    thesevenwielder said:
    Blakeb v6: "Adam's strong!"
    Blake, v5: *oneshots him, adam is panting and limping in short*
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    Again she didn't one-shot him, he was basically fine and only left because he was now surrounded and his plan had totally failed. He was trying to get her to follow him so he could fight her on ground that favors him. You know, like Blake spelled out for the audience literally moments after he left. As for why he was panting an limping, it couldn't possibly be because he'd been running from the cops all night and hadn't any time to rest and had just watched his plans and future crumble before his eyes, thus leaving him emotionally and mentally unbalanced which is communicated by his seeming physical weakness, thus having his inner troubles expressed outwardly. No, it can only be a retcon and not at all a way of explaining Adam's mental state the viewers in a subtle show don't tell way.


    thesevenwielder said:
    @Slater how about Salem challenging Cinder, demanding to know if she actually killed Oz or not, and then acting with confusion and saying "What are you planning?" That implies she isn't fully aware of his reincarnating, which is counteracted in volume 5 when the bad guys reveal that they are aware of the reincarnation, and Salem doubly so in volume six.
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    It's more likely that Salem knew that Cinder couldn't have actually fought Ozpin one on one and had any real chance of victory unless Ozpin let himself die, thus she's wondering why Ozpin would choose now to reincarnate and wondering how that would advance his own plans.
     
    VolantRedX said:
    It's more likely that Salem knew that Cinder couldn't have actually fought Ozpin one on one and had any real chance of victory unless Ozpin let himself die, thus she's wondering why Ozpin would choose now to reincarnate and wondering how that would advance his own plans.
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    Or as its spelled out they knew the entire time but him reincarnating so fast is extremely unusual as (I think it was Leo?) who comments surprised that he's already reincarnated.
     
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    Nobody said:
    Or as its spelled out they knew the entire time but him reincarnating so fast is extremely unusual as (I think it was Leo?) who comments surprised that he's already reincarnated.
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    Leo and Tyrian both at this point. And Watts points out that Oz could have a chance of getting through to Ironwood in a way that implies they did not expect him to be around to do so, very heavily implying that they didn't think he would be back for a while.
     
    thesevenwielder said:
    @Slater how about Salem challenging Cinder, demanding to know if she actually killed Oz or not, and then acting with confusion and saying "What are you planning?" That implies she isn't fully aware of his reincarnating, which is counteracted in volume 5 when the bad guys reveal that they are aware of the reincarnation, and Salem doubly so in volume six.
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    Uhh, the very fact that she says " What are you planning" in the present tense tells you she is aware that he will come back.

    Like seriously, that one isnt even close to ambiguous. Couple in the fact that the thing that Leo and Tyrian arent surprised by the fact that he is back, but that he came back so quickly and explicitly state as much and the intent is so blinding obvious that you would have to severely lacking basic comprehension skills to miss it or call it a retcon.

    You literally couldn't have picked a worse example to try to use as a gotcha or to prove you know what a retcon is, its kinda astounding.
     
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    thesevenwielder said:
    Blakeb v6: "Adam's strong!"
    Blake, v5: *oneshots him, adam is panting and limping in short*

    That sounds like a retcon to me.


    "Yeah, go to the thread that is actively hostile against critics, they will argue for me, that'll show you!"

    Christ, man, do you even listen to yourself? Now listen up, kiddo, I am no stranger to the SB thread. I lurk. I know PRECISELY how it goes around there. And I know for a fact that any arguments there will be nearly identical to the ones here, the only difference is that I will get more people saying the same thing. I won't get any better arguments, I will only be shouted down. It isn't any form of cowardice, it's common fucking sense.



    One thing I really don't understand is why the writers keep trying to present the Grimm as creepy and threatening, when they clearly aren't. Sure they can harm normal civilians and nobodies but no one of actual importance has never been harmed by them at all. And we follow the viewpoint of these characters, who are the only ones who actually matter to the audience. They are basically a joke. Even the spoopiness of this episode didn't make them an actual threat. It tried, but then, well, total anticlimax. So again, I don't understand why these things are supposed to be threatening when no one treats them like a threat. Even in-universe, for the most part they are seen as a general nuisance, not an actual threat. Apparently the draw of the Relic isn't that strong according to Oz, but these passenger trains seem to be widely used and they hadn't suffered a Grimm attack capable of derailing a train until now. They are so much of a joke that Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum can try to trick people into hiring them for protection.


    @Slater how about Salem challenging Cinder, demanding to know if she actually killed Oz or not, and then acting with confusion and saying "What are you planning?" That implies she isn't fully aware of his reincarnating, which is counteracted in volume 5 when the bad guys reveal that they are aware of the reincarnation, and Salem doubly so in volume six.
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    I'm sorry but did we watch the same episode? All of them would have died if they didn't have Ruby's silver eyes. The Apathy are terrifying. If you run into a pack and aren't aware that they're there you're basically fucked unless you get away in time.

    As for the Adam "retcon"; retreating from a disadvantageous fight automatically means you're weak now? Getting surprised by one attack means you aren't strong? What the fuck? Are you just ignoring the context of the scenes?
     
    thesevenwielder said:
    Blakeb v6: "Adam's strong!"
    Blake, v5: *oneshots him, adam is panting and limping in short*
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    Blake in v5, after getting in a lucky shot on Adam through exploiting his emotions: "No, we can't [take him]. He wants to lure us away so he can pick us off."

    The spoiler period is over here, so I can say this safely: the Apathy were spooky as fuck and reminded me of both Dementors and my recent depression relapse. I'm also glad that Maria taught Ruby how to use her silver eyes, which is something people have been waiting for for three years now.
     
    Assembler said:
    Blake in v5, after getting in a lucky shot on Adam through exploiting his emotions: "No, we can't [take him]. He wants to lure us away so he can pick us off."

    The spoiler period is over here, so I can say this safely: the Apathy were spooky as fuck and reminded me of both Dementors and my recent depression relapse. I'm also glad that Maria taught Ruby how to use her silver eyes, which is something people have been waiting for for three years now.
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    And yet, just wait until someone starts complaining about how lame and unthreatening they were even though they almost killed everyone and the only thing that saved them was Ruby finally learning how to activate her powers, and that somehow this is yet more proof that the Grimm are never threatening or scary.
     
    Leingod said:
    And yet, just wait until someone starts complaining about how lame and unthreatening they were even though they almost killed everyone and the only thing that saved them was Ruby finally learning how to activate her powers, and that somehow this is yet more proof that the Grimm are never threatening or scary.
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    I do believe that's already happened. Or is my sarcasm meter broken?
     
    Seriously though the Apathy were creepy as all get out, that scene where they one is just looming over Blake lowering its claws to stab her head and Blake not even having the energy to care was just (Screams).

    Also I like how their power clearly works at a distance, they killed a whole farmstead from underground, were affecting RWBY and co from a good distance away in the catacombs, and while their effect was strong close up it may be a case of stacking or of them being able to enforce that level of apathy really quickly.

    In either case they are a great addition to the Grimm in my mind, a really unique and threatening presence that are really distinguished from the usual Grimm.

    Also yeah I've seen some others point out how they likely tie in well to issues of depression or dependency.
     
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    God the love activation trigger is silly af. Guess Ruby never felt love for her friends and family the dozens of other times they were in danger? How mercuial of her. Also the Apathy are slow AF. Maria was able to give an entire lengthy speech before they shambled over to everyone.

    @Mook damn, man, you got your SB posse together to tell me what-for pretty quickly. You are WAY too desperate
     
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    thesevenwielder said:
    God the love activation trigger is silly af. Guess Ruby never felt love for her friends and family the dozens of other times they were in danger?
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    Or Perhaps Ruby has never tried to consciously activate her Silver Eye powers since prior to this event and did not know what she needed to do, it is possible to feel those emotions and not get the desired result, for example let us head to DBZ for a comparison , every instance of the Super Sayain transformations(In Z not Super)required alot of Rage but you would have thought that with how angry Gohan got during the Freeza fight he would have triggered right away, as it turns out though there was alot more to it, something even Goku picked up on and trained for after his initial rage induced transformation. Ruby is similar in this instance, having a great power locked away inside her but not knowing how to use it properly. Until a more experienced user of said power shows her the path.
     
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    thesevenwielder said:
    God the love activation trigger is silly af. Guess Ruby never felt love for her friends and family the dozens of other times they were in danger?
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    I kinda want Ruby to reflect on that and be upset about the fact that she didn't know about this to possibly save her friends. Maybe even call the old man out only for him to justify why he kept mum on the Silver Eyes (hopefully something that's more "because your eyes will burn out" than the manipulative "you never asked" or "because you'd leave me if you found out").
     
    I get the feeling that RT finally managed to hire someone to look over Miles and Kerry's writing. Not just be a yes-man and tell them "yep, everything's good" but actually sitting them and telling them "This story is shit and here's how to fix it." And hitting them with a rolled-up newspaper whenever they write something stupid. As I've said multiple times before, this volume's writing is a step above the previous 5 volumes combined. Problem is, this show doesn't exist in a vacuum. The previous 5 volumes still exist, and it is a very shaky foundation to build upon. Even if future seasons keep up this level of quality, the overally shittiness of the previous 5 still exist, and aren't going away. Like sure, they're answering questions that the show has left unanswered since day 1, but at the same time it's been years since those questions were first asked. Almost too little, too late. Telling a new viewer "this gets explained 3 seasons later" is not a good indicator of quality. And it introduces all sorts of plot holes, like why Ruby never activated the SEW when her loved ones were in danger before.

    I honestly think they would be better served just rebooting the whole damn show. Keep this level of quality from the start.
     
    I'd say she has no real room to be angry given that she never even bothered to ask about it in the first place despite knowing what she'd done with them earlier. "Calling the old man out" would be both redundant by this point and a bit hypocritical.
     
    thesevenwielder said:
    God the love activation trigger is silly af. Guess Ruby never felt love for her friends and family the dozens of other times they were in danger? How mercuial of her. Also the Apathy are slow AF. Maria was able to give an entire lengthy speech before they shambled over to everyone.

    @Mook damn, man, you got your SB posse together to tell me what-for pretty quickly. You are WAY too desperate.
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    As I pointed out before there seems to be more to it than "loved one in danger=laser beam eyes". A big ingredient seems to rely on Ruby also feeling helpless and also actively in danger.
     
    Leingod said:
    I'd say she has no real room to be angry given that she never even bothered to ask about it in the first place despite knowing what she'd done with them earlier. "Calling the old man out" would be both redundant by this point and a bit hypocritical.
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    Oh shit, yeah, I forgot that bit.
    thesevenwielder said:
    Problem is, this show doesn't exist in a vacuum.
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    The bigger problem is that the show pretends that each Volume exists in its own vacuum and so they just decide to pick and choose which plot elements they can carry over to the next Volume while conveniently ignoring the ones that would drag it down.
     
    Anyway is it just me or was Bartlbey possibly being vaguely compared to Ozpin by lying to keep people calm and writing about how he'll tell his wife later ETC. I don't know maybe I'm just imagining things.
     
    Zam said:
    Anyway is it just me or was Bartlbey possibly being vaguely compared to Ozpin by lying to keep people calm and writing about how he'll tell his wife later ETC. I don't know maybe I'm just imagining things.
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    Eeeeh, it's a bit of a stretch.

    Ozpin most likely wouldn't go to that kind of length.
     
    Psyga315 said:
    Oh shit, yeah, I forgot that bit.

    The bigger problem is that the show pretends that each Volume exists in its own vacuum and so they just decide to pick and choose which plot elements they can carry over to the next Volume while conveniently ignoring the ones that would drag it down.
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    Except so far nothing people are calling inconsistent has actually turned out to be inconsistent and more often seems to be an issue of viewers taking things too literally.
     
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