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RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • Q99 said:
    Indeed. And if you kill a lot of stuff in one shot, that does make it easy to not grow other aspects of your style as much as you should.

    Yang's semblance is pretty similar but with more drawbacks (he gains power from successful defense, her from taking damage), and she *still* had problems with over-reliance.
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    Definitely agreed on the first one, and it seems like he relied on Blake to guard him to prepare for that, limiting the amount he needed to adapt, less agreed on the latter... Lets just say I have thoughts on the V4 arc and Tai and leave it at that :D
     
    Vindictus said:
    RWBY Chibi is canon that transcends canon and I will fite you if you disagree :V:V:V
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    Only if Nora gets a cannon from one of her coffee trips.

    Also: on the whole Cross Tag thing, some announcements from the Evo annouce:

    My theory about them rushing for EVO got confirmed: the game is going to be at EVO, as a Saturday game. About the best that can be expected.

    Also, Blake and Yang are confirmed to be free DLC forever. Yang still won't be in at launch, because she isn't finished.
     
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    So, apparently trying to dissociate personal bias and taste from tangible flaws and mistakes when critiquing a work is just a suggestion, rather than, you know, an inherent part of trying to critique something with a just a little bit of fairness.

    The more you know.
     
    LancerisDead said:
    So, apparently trying to dissociate personal bias and taste from tangible flaws and mistakes when critiquing a work is just a suggestion, rather than, you know, an inherent part of trying to critique something with a just a little bit of fairness.

    The more you know.
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    Where'd you hear that tripe?
     
    Barnaby said:
    The show itself transcended it's own canon a bit, if I remember correctly.

    Maybe it's a fourth wall break, but didn't we get some scenes with Nora wearing her own merch in... I wanna say season 3? 2?
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    In the main RWBY show or in Chibi?

    You're thinking of the Boop shirt in Volume 2 of RWBY right? I think that was a thing in the show before it became merchandise actually. Similar to Pumpkin Pete's Marshmallow Flakes or Ruby's headphones. Stuff from in-universe becoming merchandise or vice versa is pretty common for most shows, as is throwing in references to various stuff. Zootopia had animal versions of all the latest Disney movies for example.
     
    Xalgeon said:
    Which thread should I be looking at? I'm assuming Leila Han's judging by the fact we're in the RWBY thread.
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    While I categorically reject the idea of "unbiased reviewing trumps all", I'd also say that not everyone will get the same value out of certain reviews.

    That thread is not a place for everyone, and that's fine.

    This thread isn't for everyone, either.

    The RT forums aren't for everyone.

    /co/ isn't for everyone.

    RWBY did not attract a homogenous audience, and that isn't a bad thing.

    But there's one sentiment shared by all, one opinion everyone can agree on: Anime isn't a mistake- Ready Player One was the mistake.
     
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    I have no context for this, but I am pretty sure being unbiased or not influenced by personal taste is impossible, one can try and distance themselves from it, but its ultimately not possible as we as people are the sum total of our experiences, knowledge and feelings and those dictate our reactions to new stimuli.
     
    Zam said:
    I have no context for this, but I am pretty sure being unbiased or not influenced by personal taste is impossible, one can try and distance themselves from it, but its ultimately not possible as we as people are the sum total of our experiences, knowledge and feelings and those dictate our reactions to new stimuli.
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    Well, yes, that's a given, but one can try and take a step away and see which is product of one's bias and which is an issue of the work.

    EDIT: God damn, that thread is trying is really hard to pretend they are doing anything other than egostroking.

    Like, you don't insult the work's author! That's something basic, as in, basic Reading Comprehension simple. How can you try and justify that!
     
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    LancerisDead said:
    So, apparently trying to dissociate personal bias and taste from tangible flaws and mistakes when critiquing a work is just a suggestion, rather than, you know, an inherent part of trying to critique something with a just a little bit of fairness.

    The more you know.
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    The whole point of critiquing a work is to use your own bias as a framework to start from. You should certainly be fair, but you're going to like what you like and hate what you hate. There's not such thing as objective criticism.
     
    VolantRedX said:
    The whole point of critiquing a work is to use your own bias as a framework to start from. You should certainly be fair, but you're going to like what you like and hate what you hate. There's not such thing as objective criticism.
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    And there isn't! I agree with you. But there comes a point when you need to look back and ask yourself "How much of this is the work and how much is me?"
     
    LancerisDead said:
    So, apparently trying to dissociate personal bias and taste from tangible flaws and mistakes when critiquing a work is just a suggestion, rather than, you know, an inherent part of trying to critique something with a just a little bit of fairness.

    The more you know.
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    So the argument there seems to be about whether Yang's actions during Yellow Trailer were ok or not? Leila Hann and the people in that thread were saying that it wasn't, and that the fact that the show's creators seemed to be advocating unrepentant sexual harassment and violence by putting it in the trailer put their intelligence into question.

    On the other hand you were arguing that it doesn't give sufficient evidence to dislike Yang as a character.

    Assuming my summaries were accurate (I dunno, the whole thing seems to be going all over the place), I would argue that they appear to be letting the show influence their views on the creators, not the other way around, and you seem to dislike the fact that they seem to be (in your opinion) exaggerating the apparent statement the Yellow trailer makes about her character.

    Personal prejudices or not, your views WILL effect how you view characters. That's something authors have to take into account when planning said characters. So they may or may not be going overboard with it, but I also don't think it's quite as bad as you're making it out to be. Maybe not professional sure, but this is critiquing on a forum.

    I didn't exactly see too much egostroking if any, but I only read a single page of the thread so take that with a grain of salt.
     
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    WildCardFool said:
    So the argument there seems to be about whether Yang's actions during Yellow Trailer were ok or not? Leila Hann and the people in that thread were saying that it wasn't, and that the fact that the show's creators seemed to be advocating unrepentant sexual harassment and violence by putting it in the trailer put their intelligence into question.

    On the other hand you were arguing that it doesn't give sufficient evidence to dislike Yang as a character.

    Assuming my summaries were accurate (I dunno, the whole thing seems to be going all over the place), I would argue that they appear to be letting the show influence their views on the creators, not the other way around, and you seem to dislike the fact that they seem to be (in your opinion) exaggerating the apparent statement the Yellow trailer makes about her character.

    Personal prejudices or not, your views WILL effect how you view characters. That's something authors have to take into account when planning said characters. So they may or may not be going overboard with it, but I also don't think it's quite as bad as you're making it out to be. Maybe not professional sure, but this is critiquing on a forum.

    I didn't exactly see too much egostroking if any, but I only read a single page of the thread so take that with a grain of salt.
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    My issue is in insulting an author on a personal level, period, minding a few exceptions.

    You may dislike a piece of fiction, and that's fine, but it gives you no grounds to make declarations about people you have no way of knowing.
     
    Oh gosh is this that anti-Yang nonsense again? Gross. :mad:

    LancerisDead said:
    Well, yes, that's a given, but one can try and take a step away and see which is product of one's bias and which is an issue of the work.

    EDIT: God damn, that thread is trying is really hard to pretend they are doing anything other than egostroking.

    Like, you don't insult the work's author! That's something basic, as in, basic Reading Comprehension simple. How can you try and justify that!
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    While theoretically true, I do tend to feel people over emphasize their ability to be 'objective' so to speak, there's some stuff that can be talked about nominally objectively like "X character could not to task Y, but one scene later with no explanation could" but even then, tone, emphasize, focus ETC will all be influenced by bias.

    Sorry if I am misunderstanding the tract of this discussion.

    LancerisDead said:
    And there isn't! I agree with you. But there comes a point when you need to look back and ask yourself "How much of this is the work and how much is me?"
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    Of course people can also project none existent flaws, either because they were lazy and missed details, that 'Jac' guy and his absurd train complaints from V4, so there's that too.
     
    LancerisDead said:
    My issue is in insulting an author on a personal level, period, minding a few exceptions.

    You may dislike a piece of fiction, and that's fine, but it gives you no grounds to make declarations about people you have no way of knowing.
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    I would agree with you on that. Sometimes it might be understandable, for instance a racist work unironically talking about genocide and glorifying it. Whether I like it or not, that would almost definitely color how I see the author, especially if it seems unapologetic and they write a follow-up book about more of the same thing.

    On the other hand, I would also argue that the Yellow trailer doesn't seem to approach that level in any way. Personally, I see it as highlighting Yang's impulsiveness among other traits. It isn't exactly a good one for a number of reasons, but authors do have to write characters with views they don't agree with, and while other parts of the story may bring into question their writing skills, I don't think the Yellow trailer would particularly cast suspicion on them.

    tl;dr: Sure I guess, but I think you're both being a little extreme here.
     
    I think the issues with the Yellow trailer are the same issues that arose with the whole Jaune has a crush on Weiss thing. The guys at RT were clearly aiming for a different demographic when making this show, one which wouldn't try and fit everything into a real world context and would simply have fun with the show. Trying to argue the real world implications of Yang's actions makes no sense since it's not supposed to be a commentary on the real world or on moral framework. It's just supposed to be a fun action scene showing that Yang has a temper and doesn't take shit from anyone. You're not supposed to think so hard about this show. It's a fun little action cartoon, not some deep philosophical work.
     
    It would really help if you'd ever make an argument instead of always whining about Leila. Or you could stop coming in to troll Lancer.
     
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