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RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • Psyga315 said:
    So, when Cinder kills a maiden because she feels like she'd make better use of the powers, it's evil. When Raven kills a maiden because she thinks she'd make better use of the powers, it's sympathetic?
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    "Sympathetic" is a bit much, but the key difference is that Raven is visibly afraid of Salem and she's desperate to survive no matter the cost. That kind of fear is easy to understand.

    Cinder is just a smug bitch about it.
     
    What would everyone think of a change to the Volume format? Perhaps fewer total episodes and another week between each episode in exchange for a greater focus on each episode's animations and a longer runtime for each episode? Eight episodes per volume in exchange for fewer filler scenes and a slightly longer runtime.

    I don't expect this to fix all of the problems with this volume, but it could be more practical than hiring more animators.
     
    nmWarden said:
    What would everyone think of a change to the Volume format? Perhaps fewer total episodes and another week between each episode in exchange for a greater focus on each episode's animations and a longer runtime for each episode? Eight episodes per volume in exchange for fewer filler scenes and a slightly longer runtime.

    I don't expect this to fix all of the problems with this volume, but it could be more practical than hiring more animators.
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    There was actually a topic on r/RWBY similar to this (bigger gaps between volumes instead of less episodes with bigger gaps between them, but I digress) and the answers were almost 99% 'yes'.

    Also, I'd be fine with that.
     
    Anzer'ke said:
    I was hoping this season would turn it around, but instead it's like the last jedi all over again. A bunch of promising moments but overall a failure on multiple levels.

    With how many people seem to be dropping the series based on this season, I wonder if the show will end up cancelled before the story finishes. Unless they can turn it around it seems ever more inevitable.



    There hasn't been a single stand out fight scene since Monty's work was used up.

    They're clearly trying but the difference remains stark. No matter how much they try to cover it up with effects and rapid motion.
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    StellarSeeker said:
    Matches up with what I've seen on r/RWBY.

    Most people seem to just be divided on whether they liked it or not... so it's pretty much business as usual with this fandom. :V
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    Anzer'ke said:
    It could just be because of the chunks of fandoms I tend to hang out in (fanfic and fanart) but I keep coming across folks who've been making RWBY stuff for years who are saying the last season broke their interest.

    Of course the wider fandom might well be growing despite such events, I dunno.
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    I seriously question the taste of anyone who is droping the show because they think it has gotten worse over the years. If this season is just the straw that broke the camels back then fine but lets not pretend that the first season of RWBY was anything but hot garbage. It had some (not nearly enough and half of what they had was recycled stuff that Monty did years ago) good fights scenes and the music was good but everything else suuuucked. The fight scenes are worse now certainly but everything else is much better. The writing, non-combat direction and animation, voice acting, set design and pacing are a lot better. The music is still just as decent. The show is still not as good as say, Camp Camp, RvB, DBZA or Sword Art Online but its gotten better (damning with faint praise little bit here).
     
    nmWarden said:
    What would everyone think of a change to the Volume format? Perhaps fewer total episodes and another week between each episode in exchange for a greater focus on each episode's animations and a longer runtime for each episode? Eight episodes per volume in exchange for fewer filler scenes and a slightly longer runtime.

    I don't expect this to fix all of the problems with this volume, but it could be more practical than hiring more animators.
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    They should really just launch it all as one movie instead of rushing out chapter after chapter, giving them the opportunity to animate without fear of time constraints.

    Because that's really what defeats the "it's meant to be binged" argument. If it was meant to be binged, why do they release it in a weekly format?
     
    Frankly I wish the manga had continued. And some other light novels were written. Who knows, the alternate media platforms (with their own storylines) could've taken off. Chibi is still fun, in spite of me wanting to hate it.
     
    Lupercal said:
    I seriously question the taste of anyone who is droping the show because they think it has gotten worse over the years. If this season is just the straw that broke the camels back then fine but lets not pretend that the first season of RWBY was anything but hot garbage. It had some (not nearly enough and half of what they had was recycled stuff that Monty did years ago) good fights scenes and the music was good but everything else suuuucked. The fight scenes are worse now certainly but everything else is much better. The writing, non-combat direction and animation, voice acting, set design and pacing are a lot better. The music is still just as decent. The show is still not as good as say, Camp Camp, RvB, DBZA or Sword Art Online but its gotten better (damning with faint praise little bit here).
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    For me (I can't speak for anyone else after all) it's partly a case of the straw that broke the camel's back, but mostly a matter of running out of forgiveness for the flaws.

    Early RWBY was shite, you're absolutely right. To the point that Monty's work may well have been all it had going for it considering what it would be like without those fight scenes. However it was also an amateur effort that we got for free and which clearly had passion behind it.

    So it was easy to forgive season 1 for being a dumpster fire. Then season 2 comes around and there was a noticeable improvement, albeit the result still wasn't great (perhaps not even good, if you strip away the fight choreography and related work) but there was a clear trajectory and that made for a lot of hope and even more ease in forgiving the flaws.

    But that was three years ago, and since then RWBY has become inarguably monetised (there's a spin-off game for fuck's sake) and the time for learning lessons has passed. It's time for the show to be judged like any other show would have been judged from episode 1, and by those standards it's really not very good. Certainly it can't stand up to any other decent anime released this year, let alone the pack leaders.
     
    Anzer'ke said:
    However it was also an amateur effort that we got for free and which clearly had passion behind it.
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    Anzer'ke said:
    But that was three years ago, and since then RWBY has become inarguably monetised (there's a spin-off game for fuck's sake)
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    What a load of garbage. The show itself is still as free as its ever been. You don't need to pay a single dime to watch it. You don't need to sign up with any subscription fees to get behind any pay walls. Every episode is uploaded onto Youtube where you can watch it for FREE. Nobody is forcing you to pay for any of their products unless you actually want to buy those products.

    Their monetization efforts basically consists of a combination of "won't you pretty please actually pay us for our work so that we can actually afford making this stuff?" and "here are some products that we hope you will like, please consider buying some of them if you see anything you like." And really just, compare the price of a RWBY Blu-Ray to the Blu-Ray's for half a season of most any Japanese Anime. One is about 20 bucks, the other is often over three hundred and the latter comes from companies who pay their animators so little that they literally have to go online to beg people for money so that they can afford a place to stay.

    I don't know about you but I'd rather not judge a indie company that treats its clients and workers well by the same standards as AAA giants that squeeze every last drop of blood out of both their customers and their workers.
     
    Anzer'ke said:
    it's like the last jedi all over again. A bunch of promising moments but overall a failure on multiple levels.
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    The flaw in your argument is that The Last Jedi is one of the best Star Wars films out there, rivaling only Empire.
    It still suffers from a lot of the usual RWBY problems, but I thought Volume 5 was pretty good overall, and I particularly like how they handled Raven.

    Anzer'ke said:
    I keep coming across folks who've been making RWBY stuff for years who are saying the last season broke their interest.
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    V4 seems to be the more contentious one on that front, from what I've seen. All the people hyped up for the show to suddenly become as dark and self-serious as Attack On Titan felt let down. I've also talked to one fanfic author who refuses to watch Volume 2 and beyond simply because Roosterteeth hasn't made Weiss/Ruby canon.* What I'm saying is that just because people are dropping the show, doesn't mean they're dropping it for the right reasons. Like, there are many issues it does still have, but that doesn't necessarily align with the reasons people will cite for giving it up.

    *Shit, I ship White Rose rather strongly myself, and I still think that's one of the most re...idiculous things I've heard.
     
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    Q99 said:
    I hope RWBY Chibi gets Raven and shows her in a 'mom of the year' competition.
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    Mother of the year:
    Raven -> Is so very, very Raven. Painfully so, in fact.
    Weiss's Mom -> So alcoholic her entire family has forgotten her name.
    Summer -> Very generous, giving soul, but a little too busy feeding small forest animals. By which I mean worms.
    Kali -> Memetic sexy shoeless god(dess) of war. Will kill you with a teacup.

    I think the winner of Team RWBY's MOTY competition is pretty clear.
     
    Mook said:
    I don't know about you but I'd rather not judge a indie company that treats its clients and workers well by the same standards as AAA giants that squeeze every last drop of blood out of both their customers and their workers.
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    I'm going to be a bit pedantic here but RT isn't, in the strictest sense of the word, actually indie. They're owned by Fullscreen, which is in turn owned by Disney. That's not entirely independant.

    But speaking about that point more broadly... I always sorta felt it was a bit condescending? Like "don't judge them, they're trying their best!" feels like it comes with a sense of cheapening or lessening how far RT has come over the years, or that they don't even deserve to be judged as an equal to any other piece of popular media.
     
    Mook said:
    I don't know about you but I'd rather not judge a indie company that treats its clients and workers well by the same standards as AAA giants that squeeze every last drop of blood out of both their customers and their workers.
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    So if RT is such a great company why are they rated as a worse place to work compared to all the big AAA giants?

    Like this aint a couple of guys in a garage anymore. They are for all intents and purposes "mainstream" and should be judged by those standards.
     
    Calboon said:
    So if RT is such a great company why are they rated as a worse place to work compared to all the big AAA giants?

    Like this aint a couple of guys in a garage anymore. They are for all intents and purposes "mainstream" and should be judged by those standards.
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    Based on the context of his post, Mook's comparing the working conditions of RoosterTeeth to the ones in Japanese animation companies.

    Anyone with passing knowledge on Japan's work culture can tell you who comes out favorably in that comparison. And It's not Japan.
     
    StellarSeeker said:
    Based on the context of his post, Mook's comparing the working conditions of RoosterTeeth to the ones in Japanese animation companies.

    Anyone with passing knowledge on Japan's work culture can tell you who comes out favorably in that comparison. And It's not Japan.
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    And? RT manages to not be worse than literally one of the worst countries to work in animation, this is in no way worthy of praise. My point is that they are still worse rated than almost any other animation studio in the western world.
     
    Calboon said:
    So if RT is such a great company why are they rated as a worse place to work compared to all the big AAA giants?

    Like this aint a couple of guys in a garage anymore. They are for all intents and purposes "mainstream" and should be judged by those standards.
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    Umm they're not a AAA giant. Like yeah they're not a bunch of guys working out of a dorm room, but at best they're on the level of most tiny indy production companies and even that is an overestimation.

    Calboon said:
    Glassdoor and payscale reports.

    This is getting off topic though so if you want to continue the discussion I am more than happy to do it in PM's
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    I don't think anyone works at RT for the pay. It's mostly about the environment and the fact that most of the people are actually friends.
     
    Psyga315 said:
    They should really just launch it all as one movie instead of rushing out chapter after chapter, giving them the opportunity to animate without fear of time constraints.

    Because that's really what defeats the "it's meant to be binged" argument. If it was meant to be binged, why do they release it in a weekly format?
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    Somehow I doubt Sun spent too much time there- especially not in class. Besides he's too busy trying to get Blake.

    It's to make money. Release it as a movie those RT subs would go down.
     
    nmWarden said:
    What would everyone think of a change to the Volume format? Perhaps fewer total episodes and another week between each episode in exchange for a greater focus on each episode's animations and a longer runtime for each episode? Eight episodes per volume in exchange for fewer filler scenes and a slightly longer runtime.

    I don't expect this to fix all of the problems with this volume, but it could be more practical than hiring more animators.
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    I think they probably need to take more time between volumes, have the whole thing fully plotted and written and take their time making it. Animation takes a long, long time to make if you want it to be any good. I think I remember the guys at Lucasfilm saying that there was something like two years between starting work on a season of Star Wars: Rebels and releasing it. They need to stop trying to rush it out the door on short notice.
     
    Two thoughts on 'it's meant to be binged'. The length format is what they're most used to, what they developed for RedvsBlue, and even though it's best as a whole, it's still designed for chapters and sometimes the anticipation and speculation is really good too, some prefer that.

    Lupercal said:
    I seriously question the taste of anyone who is droping the show because they think it has gotten worse over the years. If this season is just the straw that broke the camels back then fine but lets not pretend that the first season of RWBY was anything but hot garbage. It had some (not nearly enough and half of what they had was recycled stuff that Monty did years ago) good fights scenes and the music was good but everything else suuuucked. The fight scenes are worse now certainly but everything else is much better. The writing, non-combat direction and animation, voice acting, set design and pacing are a lot better. The music is still just as decent. The show is still not as good as say, Camp Camp, RvB, DBZA or Sword Art Online but its gotten better (damning with faint praise little bit here).
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    Though one thing season 1 has: it was fresh, it was new. Even improving, it cannot be new anymore.
     
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    Barnaby said:
    They're owned by Fullscreen, which is in turn owned by Disney.
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    Hahahaha, holy shit, did not know that.

    That means, since Yang is the daughter of a Bandit chieftain, and that Blake is the daughter of the former White Fang chieftain, and that Weiss is the former Heiress to the Schnee Dust Company, all three of them are technically Disney Princesses.

    Hahahahaha oh my fucking God that's rich. xD
     
    TheMadmanAndre said:
    Hahahaha, holy shit, did not know that.

    That means, since Yang is the daughter of a Bandit chieftain, and that Blake is the daughter of the former White Fang chieftain, and that Weiss is the former Heiress to the Schnee Dust Company, all three of them are technically Disney Princesses.

    Hahahahaha oh my fucking God that's rich. xD
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    I'm sure there's some fan-art rattling around the internet of the team in princess dresses.

    Whether or not it includes Ruby doing a face-plant due to the fact that she can't handle walking in heels is another matter.
     
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