so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.
That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.
So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.
In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
Yeah, it is. I mean, sure, it's hard and a lot of work. But I know from the behind the scenes clip from later seasons of RvB that they've employed professional fight choreographers before. So it kind of comes off like their attitude to having big, elaborate fight scenes in their action anime is:
Yeah, it is. I mean, sure, it's hard and a lot of work. But I know from the behind the scenes clip from later seasons of RvB that they've employed professional fight choreographers before. So it kind of comes off like their attitude to having big, elaborate fight scenes in their action anime is:
Aside from the Monty animated fights every big battle scene in RvB is basically just a bunch of Halo machimas standing around shooting at each other until plot decides that one or the other should fall over dead so not sure how that comparison is supposed to apply. Even with Monty the big fights where mostly Character A beats up 20 mooks, Character B beats up 20 mooks, etc. The closest comparison might be the highway scene but even then you rarely had more than 3 or 4 characters on screen at the same time and often only only 2 of them were fighting at the same time and there was no need to have any big plot developments or any talking or explanation in the middle of it. Just a very straightforward "get the briefcase, stop the other guys from getting the briefcase" fight scene.
And I think you are seriously underestimating how much works goes into making this stuff. Remember that Fire&Wind tornado that Corsac and Fennec used against Sun? Just creating that one effect took 3 weeks of work to make. Animating a fight scene is easier said than done, even Monty struggled with team battles, often resorting to making it more of a turn based affair with clever edits and pacing drawing attention away from that fact.
The problem with losing Monty is that talent like that isn't something you can just snap your fingers and replace. You can't just toss money into vending machine and have it pop out a new super talented fight animator that lives and breathes for his work and is workaholic to the extreme while also somehow being healthy enough to not get a heart attack from how much he's working.
Okay. So, this is my entire thoughts on RWBY Volume 5 from the trailers all the way to the ending.
Starting off with Weiss' trailer, we already have warning signs. The five previous trailers all show the girls being badasses and when they were beaten down, they just got back up and did a cool climax. Even Blake's first trailer had this sort of climax although it was Adam that did the last blow rather than her. Instead, we have Weiss kick ass… then get her ass kicked and cry out Winter like it's a safe word. And that's the only time we ever see Winter in this Volume (BYEEEE!). Blake and Yang's trailers were progressively better. Blake's trailer showed a great potential for Ilia that the show thankfully followed through on and Yang had the ebb and flow that I described a few sentences ago. The official trailer also brought on some hype.
Then we get to Episode 1. It is literally an exposition dump. That's it. That is a good indicator of where this show is gonna go. Granted, it's more than a dump, since we have some pretty cool scenes and it felt like a direct continuation of Volume 4. Except for Blake's scene where it just felt like we missed a scene, but other than that, it was pretty good. Sure, there's the infamous "reuse the stinger" scene, but at least they used the stinger rather than… {glares at Volume 2} The fact that there were no fights for the premiere, a series first, is telling of the direction this show's season was gonna go.
Episode 2 feels like it was written by a twelve-year-old who managed to watch Game of Thrones and decided "OOOOH! THAT'S COOL!" and worked it into his fanfic starring his super cool edgy OC Adam Taurus. This was hopelessly dark and bleak. We had Grimm suicide bombing planes full of people, tentacles strangling an old man for no real good reason, and quite literally the most divisive moment in Volume 5 until the Battle of Haven began: Sienna Khan's death. I'm of the camp that believed that Sienna was superficial at best since I had already assumed Adam was the leader before that throwaway line in Volume 4 came in. It also helped introduce the infamous aura retcon.
Episode 3 is where we have RNJR just awing at Ozpin. Even Jaune, who last volume had this huge scene where he was upset at his cult for what happened with Pyrrha, doesn't seem to mind. However, Ozcart is pretty cool and I surprisingly found nothing wrong with it whatsoever. And I'm even a Rose Garden shipper, believe it or not. Though this episode had a pretty irritating Menagerie scene that helped reinforce the idea that Menagerie is a dumb plotline altogether.
Episode 4 is one of the true good episodes of this volume. It blended fighting and exposition to a very solid consistency and it did a really good bait and switch with Yang regarding whether she's going to Ruby or Raven. That and the whole reuniting her with Weiss was a really great touch. The only problem is the whole training montage thing. This is the only time we see the characters train and git good. Not only that, but there's an elephant in the room that I will address later in this review.
Episode 5 stumbled. There's a few major problems. The first is that we see how RWBY does "characterization" and "character development". And it's the one thing we're told not to do in basic writing 101: telling instead of showing. So, you know, instead of telling us Ruby is pure, show us she is pure. Instead of telling us that Weiss is defiant, show us. Hell, with the limited relationships between Weiss and Blake, I'm surprised racist wasn't the "one word". That said, I liked how Blake used it to describe Adam, but, unfortunately, that's gonna be for naught.
Then we had Ruby's long awaited "Oh, I'm supposed to be upset that my friends are dead" moment. It's pretty good for what it is but if you look at it a certain way, it definitely looks like a patch of duct tape that says "we forgot to include this scene in Volume 4, so here it is in Volume 5!". Not to mention that some people say that it's too little, too late. Then we have the White Fang's brilliant plan of assassinating the Belladonnas even though the people who oversaw the plan admitted it's a stupid plan. Though, at least this meant Blake was gonna get in conflict.
Episode 6 is yet another stumble. We get some really good moments like Qrow trying to recruit Huntsmen and that badass transformation scene (all the transformations were great despite them being obviously a means to hide actual transformations), but then we have "Let me tell you something the audience already knows". It's like if, during the camp fire scene, instead of being told about the two brothers, we're told about the Maidens again.
Episode 7 is where the show trips, falls, skins their knee, and as it gets up, falls right back down because it turns out the episode also broke RWBY's leg. It opens with a breather feeling, though at least one scene in question just feels awkward ("Please tell me you let her get killed by that boar have it!") and another that many others found awkward, but I didn't (I can put my arm back on, you can't, so stay safe!). Then we get another exposition dump and one of the characters finally asking Oz a question… Which in the grand scheme of things is just really, really minor and feels like an overreaction even with what Raven said and all that.
Hell, it's really telling when Ozpin drops a big reveal and the next cut is just a very silent room. Speaking of telling, Ren randomly spouts out "WOWEE! WE SURE HAVE GROWN!" for no real reason except to tell the audience "hey, look, they developed!", but having Ren, the character who was voiced by Monty, say it is a nice touch at the very least. And then there's that stupid cliffhanger that hints at a fight but then two episodes later, doesn't.
Episode 8 is the long awaited "Yangry about Blake" episode and, for what it is, it's a good episode that finally addresses something fans wanted to see for a long time and we even got a bit of backstory from Weiss that further cements Jacques as a jackass. It also kickstarts the climax of the Menagerie arc, but ends up stumbling a bit for some fans by having Ilia have feelings for Blake but then partake in the assassination of the Belladonnas which people have concluded makes her a psycho lesbian. Thankfully it doesn't go that far and when I saw the twist for myself, I thought it was a really decent twist.
Episode 9 is the weakest episode in the volume. Sure, it had a good moment in Raven revealing that she has an agenda (I'm all for those intrigue plots) but it was basically just people standing in a camp and talking, effectively destroying what would be a very good plot twist. Hell, Raven's grimderp motto of culling the weak actually works here. Remove this episode (and Raven's scene next episode) and nothing would change. If anything, it would improve the other episodes since her betrayal would be a legit plot twist. That's why it's the weakest episode. It serves nothing and instead hurts future episodes. Also, cliffhanger because who loves those, amirite?
Episode 10 stumbled a bit in the beginning with Ruby being naïve like usual ("OOOH! We're going into a trap! YAAAAAAAAAY!") but had a decent fight scene that had really good twists and turns and even made Ilia great, squashing all fears I have had for this episode, including Ghira getting fridged. And hey, they even acknowledged that Ilia stabbed Sun. However, the only downside I can see to this Menagerie arc as a whole is… What actual purpose did the Fennec brothers serve? They could have been a really good threat, especially with the hint that they'll dispose of Adam when the time is right (read, end of Volume) and instead they're just defeated and wiped off the table.
Episode 11 is another stumbling block, but thankfully a minor one. We had some funny moments like Lionheart going "DOOOOI, WHY DID THE HUNTSMEN BRING WEAPONS!?" and Weiss going "DOOOOI!? IS DIS A TRAAAP!?" But once Jaune starts to remember "Oh yeah, I lost my friend to this bitch, I should get absolutely pissed", that's when things get good. Like, really good. Well, mostly. See, when they focus on the fight, it's good, but it loves to focus away from the fight and even gives up with consistency some of the times because characters are jumping around everywhere as though teleportation is a secondary Semblance. It's really telling that they didn't care about the fight when a good chunk of a scene is an old man looking at the fight happening off screen. Oh, this also cemented Lionheart as worst Headmaster.
Episode 12… I have no idea. On one hand, it's good in a lot of areas, like Hazel revealing he can use Dust to power himself up and obviously the Maiden reveal, but other scenes were just… Odd. Hazel's motivation is just stupid. "My sister signed up to be a Huntress and obviously died as a result! Now I must avenge her by murdering other children and Huntsmen!" And the problem lies with Ozpin explaining the backstory. If it was done where he claims she died in a training mission, but gets heavily implied that it was more than just that, then it would have been good, especially since Ozpin forcibly controls Oscart. But, unfortunately, we're apparently not allowed to question the great and powerful Ozpin.
The first half of Episode 13 is just awful. A small, brief fight not even shown in great detail followed by the Menagerie army reducing Adam and five or so members to cowering puddles. Oh, and now I can never unsee that scene without thinking of a certain incident involving tiki torches. Oh, and Deus Police Machina. Where the fuck were they during the Battle of Beacon? Oh, and Adam, the big threat that was present throughout Volume 3 and haunted Yang's nightmares in Volume 4? Is beaten up rather quickly despite all the hype built up for him. I get it, "he's really a push over", but look back to the edgelord fanfic allegory.
Imagine if that kid's older brother came across his fanfic. Instead of adding to how supposedly powerful the edgelord is and presenting him as a major threat like his younger brother made him out to be, he instead just beats him up and presents him as a whiny prick. I mean, yeah, it's… kinda cool to see Blake totally not get sliced by Adam's blade and hammer him down, but it's just disappointing considering the build up.
Fortunately, the other half of Episode 13 is, by far, the best moment of the episode. Beautiful, awesome, epic. Only downside? Cinder's potentially dead which robs Ruby and Jaune of any rematch with her. I can hear the defense now of how that's the point or that revenge is ultimately meaningless, but you have so much build up to Ruby and Jaune fighting her and then… Nothing.
And then… Episode 14.
What.
The.
Fuck.
Okay, let's take this nice and easy. White Fang are nothing but fucking jokes. People complain about the villains being toothless? These chucklefucks are the only toothless ones here. They were the guys that nearly destroyed Vale twice and then once they hit up Mistral, "WHOOP WHOOP DAT'S THE SOUND OF DA POLICE!", suddenly there's only ten of them and they get stopped with a simple "lel, stahp." I guess M&K realized how stupid the Faunus plot was going but they were in too deep and had to pull out ASAP. Even Blake brings up that Adam doesn't really matter much now, which is probably just Miles possessing Blake and using her as a mouthpiece. And Blake lets Adam get away instead of just hammering him down like she did before because…
Blake: "Because shut up."
Then Blake runs in and they prepare for an epic clash that will close out the finale-
WE INTERRUPT THIS AWESOME FIGHT TO TELL YOU WHY YOU SHOULD FEEL SORRY FOR A CHILD MURDERER!
Wait.
WHAT.
Okay, let me be perfectly clear here. I loved Yang bitching out at Raven, especially once she casually reveals that she murdered a young girl because she was "weak" and that it was "merciful", but then we get this scene where Raven cries which heavily implies she's gonna be redeemed or be all "lel, I fucked up, let me be THE COOLEST GIRL!"
Keep in mind that this is all within the same scene where Raven reveals she had straight up killed a girl to get her powers, bringing her to Cinder levels of evil.
And yet we're supposed to feel sorry for her?
Jesus Burgess, this really is like the ending to Re:Creators, right down to the actual final battle being a "talk-no-jutsu" that ends up with forcing the audience to sympathize with a child murderer. In fact, I'd say that this is even worse than Re:Creators' "final battle", since in this scene, it's basically Yang telling Raven that she's too grimderp and that makes her cry bitch tears whereas in Re:Creators, we had an entire backstory of why we should sympathize with the villain.
Speaking of villains, there's a really cool scene where Lionheart gets his comeuppance. I really like the gory discretion cut too since it's one of the good examples of telling and not showing.
So then, we cut back the fight that literally ends with Ruby going "STAHP!" which is just a middle finger to fans, then Emerald cries bitch tears about how Cinder will return (daily reminder that she tricked a girl to murder another girl and also framed Yang… oh and partook in A MONSTER INVASION), but does a badass moment where there's a large Salem monster.
But then it just quickly ends. No denouement or closing speech it's just "Hey, RWBY's back together". There's barely any cliff-hanger, it's just "go to Atlas" and cut to credits. Hell, I can even say that Qrow's groan is actually Vic Mignogna groaning as he realized that this is how the fifth volume ends. Not with a bang, but a whimper.
And then a post-credits scene that's even more pointless than the retconned "Yang, we have to talk" scene.
Typing out this has made me extremely angry. The Perfect Storm may have been the weakest episode, but Fate of Haven is the worst. Yes, there's good moments in there, but they are so rare that they outnumber all the good moments. And because of it, I'm highly considering dropping RWBY. The way this episode was written, it almost felt like they know they were gonna end this way and just decided to pre-emptively poke fun at the ending.
That said, I can see where they're coming from with the final battle being a talking scene. One of the anime RWBY gets compared to is Hunter x Hunter, which has, as a major theme, the moral of how fighting and violence are almost never the right answer. If they were trying to capture the theme of Hunter x Hunter, I say that they have captured it pretty well. I gotta say, the moment where Raven leaves and Yang goes to grab the relic, only to break down into tears as the camera zooms out was beautiful.
And, I think in the long run, RWBY's fifth volume had the potential to be good. It had really good episodes, but had a few stumbles and even a moment where they broke their leg. Volume 4 was very experimental, and it was like watching a kid learn to ride a bike without training wheels. They're on their own, nothing to help guide them forwards, just their own instinct and it helped give it a unique feeling. Volume 5, on the other hand, is that same kid, but instead of actually trying to ride the bike, they're actively distracting you from seeing them ride the bike, either with navel gazing speeches about how they describe people as "this word" and repeating the same thing that he said last year, insisting that they should not do it this week but instead next week, or actually doing it, but you aren't even looking at them riding the bike and instead are reading that Edgelord OC fanfic where you're forced to feel sorry for the OC despite having committed atrocities that would certainly have them face a firing squad if they ever existed in real life.
… Okay, I went too far with that allegory, but the idea still remains the same:
Volume 5 is not as good as Volume 4. At least Volume 4 had a basic pacing and even a climatic battle. Yes, Volume 5 made the final battle in Volume 4, which consisted of just holding down someone's arms and literally butchering them like a cow, look climatic. But, it's better than the Volume that made me initially drop RWBY: Volume 1. And that's because Volume 5 had tons of things that kept my interest, even when I had no real reason to be interested.
Really, I have no idea what to rate it. The ending definitely hampered my final rating though.
You know what? I'm gonna invoke ProJared on this one:
This Volume gets a Last Jedi/10. It's a very divisive but long awaited sequel. There are great moments that made it worth the wait, but there had also been unnecessary and even wasted moments that make me want to slam my head against a wall. I've had really fond memories watching this volume and talking with people about it… But I can't look back at this volume and say it's good without remembering all the stupid and disappointing moments and as I said before, it's made me consider dropping RWBY.
So, that's it. Those are my thoughts on RWBY's fifth volume. I know it's a long rant, but it's been in my head for a long while.
I'm gonna sleep on whether or not I'm gonna drop RWBY since it might be that the finale is fresh in my mind and I need it to age a bit before I make my decision.
I'm gonna sleep on whether or not I'm gonna drop RWBY since it might be that the finale is fresh in my mind and I need it to age a bit before I make my decision.
In what world are we supposed to feel for Raven? She is a Greek Tragedy at its finest, a person who has deluded herself that her cowardice is strength and her ruthlessness is mercy, to the point of constantly hurting and betraying those closest to her. The best she can probably hope for karmically is a heroic sacrifice in which she finally gets off her arse and Does The Right Thing for once in her goddamn life.
I felt the reverse about the Season 5 finale, in that it earned back a lot of credit after a looong season full of episodes that are literally just people talking, in a show that was originally supposed to be epic battles that failed to do the worldbuilding and character development needed to make "just people talking" work. Why? All the way back in the first episode, there was this exchange:
Salem said:
So you may prepare your guardians, build your monuments to a so-called "free world", but take heed... there will be no victory in strength.
In the Season 5 finale I feel the show finally lived up to that exchange. The villains sought victory through strength, and its pretty clear that in terms of raw power they had the decisive advantage. They lost, in the most decisive win for Team Good in any of the season finales. The heroes won with forgiveness, with courage, with trust. The villains tore each other apart and ran away with their tails between their legs, haunted by their demons.
That said it isn't perfect. While we got a great payoff on the character development of Yang and Blake, the same was not true for Weiss or RNJR.
For those who don't watch RWBY Rewind I'd like to point out that Miles and Kerry mentioned that team fights were incredibly difficult to do and that they want to avoid it if they can in the future.
Did they only figure that out this volume? Because otherwise I have no clue why they set up the gigantic brawl that was the finale. (And volume 3 would be my guess otherwise with the 4 vs 4 marches)
Though in general I have a suspicion that there is a continued problem with running with ideas without considering ramifications.
For those who don't watch RWBY Rewind I'd like to point out that Miles and Kerry mentioned that team fights were incredibly difficult to do and that they want to avoid it if they can in the future.
This... Doesn't really forebode well considering what we had to sit through with the Battle of Haven and all those cliffhanger cuts. Yes, we got one good fight out of it, but most of the fight was people teleporting everywhere and old men on stairs.
Okay. So, this is my entire thoughts on RWBY Volume 5 from the trailers all the way to the ending.
Starting off with Weiss' trailer, we already have warning signs. The five previous trailers all show the girls being badasses and when they were beaten down, they just got back up and did a cool climax. Even Blake's first trailer had this sort of climax although it was Adam that did the last blow rather than her. Instead, we have Weiss kick ass… then get her ass kicked and cry out Winter like it's a safe word. And that's the only time we ever see Winter in this Volume (BYEEEE!). Blake and Yang's trailers were progressively better. Blake's trailer showed a great potential for Ilia that the show thankfully followed through on and Yang had the ebb and flow that I described a few sentences ago. The official trailer also brought on some hype.
Then we get to Episode 1. It is literally an exposition dump. That's it. That is a good indicator of where this show is gonna go. Granted, it's more than a dump, since we have some pretty cool scenes and it felt like a direct continuation of Volume 4. Except for Blake's scene where it just felt like we missed a scene, but other than that, it was pretty good. Sure, there's the infamous "reuse the stinger" scene, but at least they used the stinger rather than… {glares at Volume 2} The fact that there were no fights for the premiere, a series first, is telling of the direction this show's season was gonna go.
Episode 2 feels like it was written by a twelve-year-old who managed to watch Game of Thrones and decided "OOOOH! THAT'S COOL!" and worked it into his fanfic starring his super cool edgy OC Adam Taurus. This was hopelessly dark and bleak. We had Grimm suicide bombing planes full of people, tentacles strangling an old man for no real good reason, and quite literally the most divisive moment in Volume 5 until the Battle of Haven began: Sienna Khan's death. I'm of the camp that believed that Sienna was superficial at best since I had already assumed Adam was the leader before that throwaway line in Volume 4 came in. It also helped introduce the infamous aura retcon.
Episode 3 is where we have RNJR just awing at Ozpin. Even Jaune, who last volume had this huge scene where he was upset at his cult for what happened with Pyrrha, doesn't seem to mind. However, Ozcart is pretty cool and I surprisingly found nothing wrong with it whatsoever. And I'm even a Rose Garden shipper, believe it or not. Though this episode had a pretty irritating Menagerie scene that helped reinforce the idea that Menagerie is a dumb plotline altogether.
Episode 4 is one of the true good episodes of this volume. It blended fighting and exposition to a very solid consistency and it did a really good bait and switch with Yang regarding whether she's going to Ruby or Raven. That and the whole reuniting her with Weiss was a really great touch. The only problem is the whole training montage thing. This is the only time we see the characters train and git good. Not only that, but there's an elephant in the room that I will address later in this review.
Episode 5 stumbled. There's a few major problems. The first is that we see how RWBY does "characterization" and "character development". And it's the one thing we're told not to do in basic writing 101: telling instead of showing. So, you know, instead of telling us Ruby is pure, show us she is pure. Instead of telling us that Weiss is defiant, show us. Hell, with the limited relationships between Weiss and Blake, I'm surprised racist wasn't the "one word". That said, I liked how Blake used it to describe Adam, but, unfortunately, that's gonna be for naught.
Then we had Ruby's long awaited "Oh, I'm supposed to be upset that my friends are dead" moment. It's pretty good for what it is but if you look at it a certain way, it definitely looks like a patch of duct tape that says "we forgot to include this scene in Volume 4, so here it is in Volume 5!". Not to mention that some people say that it's too little, too late. Then we have the White Fang's brilliant plan of assassinating the Belladonnas even though the people who oversaw the plan admitted it's a stupid plan. Though, at least this meant Blake was gonna get in conflict.
Episode 6 is yet another stumble. We get some really good moments like Qrow trying to recruit Huntsmen and that badass transformation scene (all the transformations were great despite them being obviously a means to hide actual transformations), but then we have "Let me tell you something the audience already knows". It's like if, during the camp fire scene, instead of being told about the two brothers, we're told about the Maidens again.
Episode 7 is where the show trips, falls, skins their knee, and as it gets up, falls right back down because it turns out the episode also broke RWBY's leg. It opens with a breather feeling, though at least one scene in question just feels awkward ("Please tell me you let her get killed by that boar have it!") and another that many others found awkward, but I didn't (I can put my arm back on, you can't, so stay safe!). Then we get another exposition dump and one of the characters finally asking Oz a question… Which in the grand scheme of things is just really, really minor and feels like an overreaction even with what Raven said and all that.
Hell, it's really telling when Ozpin drops a big reveal and the next cut is just a very silent room. Speaking of telling, Ren randomly spouts out "WOWEE! WE SURE HAVE GROWN!" for no real reason except to tell the audience "hey, look, they developed!", but having Ren, the character who was voiced by Monty, say it is a nice touch at the very least. And then there's that stupid cliffhanger that hints at a fight but then two episodes later, doesn't.
Episode 8 is the long awaited "Yangry about Blake" episode and, for what it is, it's a good episode that finally addresses something fans wanted to see for a long time and we even got a bit of backstory from Weiss that further cements Jacques as a jackass. It also kickstarts the climax of the Menagerie arc, but ends up stumbling a bit for some fans by having Ilia have feelings for Blake but then partake in the assassination of the Belladonnas which people have concluded makes her a psycho lesbian. Thankfully it doesn't go that far and when I saw the twist for myself, I thought it was a really decent twist.
Episode 9 is the weakest episode in the volume. Sure, it had a good moment in Raven revealing that she has an agenda (I'm all for those intrigue plots) but it was basically just people standing in a camp and talking, effectively destroying what would be a very good plot twist. Hell, Raven's grimderp motto of culling the weak actually works here. Remove this episode (and Raven's scene next episode) and nothing would change. If anything, it would improve the other episodes since her betrayal would be a legit plot twist. That's why it's the weakest episode. It serves nothing and instead hurts future episodes. Also, cliffhanger because who loves those, amirite?
Episode 10 stumbled a bit in the beginning with Ruby being naïve like usual ("OOOH! We're going into a trap! YAAAAAAAAAY!") but had a decent fight scene that had really good twists and turns and even made Ilia great, squashing all fears I have had for this episode, including Ghira getting fridged. And hey, they even acknowledged that Ilia stabbed Sun. However, the only downside I can see to this Menagerie arc as a whole is… What actual purpose did the Fennec brothers serve? They could have been a really good threat, especially with the hint that they'll dispose of Adam when the time is right (read, end of Volume) and instead they're just defeated and wiped off the table.
Episode 11 is another stumbling block, but thankfully a minor one. We had some funny moments like Lionheart going "DOOOOI, WHY DID THE HUNTSMEN BRING WEAPONS!?" and Weiss going "DOOOOI!? IS DIS A TRAAAP!?" But once Jaune starts to remember "Oh yeah, I lost my friend to this bitch, I should get absolutely pissed", that's when things get good. Like, really good. Well, mostly. See, when they focus on the fight, it's good, but it loves to focus away from the fight and even gives up with consistency some of the times because characters are jumping around everywhere as though teleportation is a secondary Semblance. It's really telling that they didn't care about the fight when a good chunk of a scene is an old man looking at the fight happening off screen. Oh, this also cemented Lionheart as worst Headmaster.
Episode 12… I have no idea. On one hand, it's good in a lot of areas, like Hazel revealing he can use Dust to power himself up and obviously the Maiden reveal, but other scenes were just… Odd. Hazel's motivation is just stupid. "My sister signed up to be a Huntress and obviously died as a result! Now I must avenge her by murdering other children and Huntsmen!" And the problem lies with Ozpin explaining the backstory. If it was done where he claims she died in a training mission, but gets heavily implied that it was more than just that, then it would have been good, especially since Ozpin forcibly controls Oscart. But, unfortunately, we're apparently not allowed to question the great and powerful Ozpin.
The first half of Episode 13 is just awful. A small, brief fight not even shown in great detail followed by the Menagerie army reducing Adam and five or so members to cowering puddles. Oh, and now I can never unsee that scene without thinking of a certain incident involving tiki torches. Oh, and Deus Police Machina. Where the fuck were they during the Battle of Beacon? Oh, and Adam, the big threat that was present throughout Volume 3 and haunted Yang's nightmares in Volume 4? Is beaten up rather quickly despite all the hype built up for him. I get it, "he's really a push over", but look back to the edgelord fanfic allegory.
Imagine if that kid's older brother came across his fanfic. Instead of adding to how supposedly powerful the edgelord is and presenting him as a major threat like his younger brother made him out to be, he instead just beats him up and presents him as a whiny prick. I mean, yeah, it's… kinda cool to see Blake totally not get sliced by Adam's blade and hammer him down, but it's just disappointing considering the build up.
Fortunately, the other half of Episode 13 is, by far, the best moment of the episode. Beautiful, awesome, epic. Only downside? Cinder's potentially dead which robs Ruby and Jaune of any rematch with her. I can hear the defense now of how that's the point or that revenge is ultimately meaningless, but you have so much build up to Ruby and Jaune fighting her and then… Nothing.
And then… Episode 14.
What.
The.
Fuck.
Okay, let's take this nice and easy. White Fang are nothing but fucking jokes. People complain about the villains being toothless? These chucklefucks are the only toothless ones here. They were the guys that nearly destroyed Vale twice and then once they hit up Mistral, "WHOOP WHOOP DAT'S THE SOUND OF DA POLICE!", suddenly there's only ten of them and they get stopped with a simple "lel, stahp." I guess M&K realized how stupid the Faunus plot was going but they were in too deep and had to pull out ASAP. Even Blake brings up that Adam doesn't really matter much now, which is probably just Miles possessing Blake and using her as a mouthpiece. And Blake lets Adam get away instead of just hammering him down like she did before because…
Blake: "Because shut up."
Then Blake runs in and they prepare for an epic clash that will close out the finale-
WE INTERRUPT THIS AWESOME FIGHT TO TELL YOU WHY YOU SHOULD FEEL SORRY FOR A CHILD MURDERER!
Wait.
WHAT.
Okay, let me be perfectly clear here. I loved Yang bitching out at Raven, especially once she casually reveals that she murdered a young girl because she was "weak" and that it was "merciful", but then we get this scene where Raven cries which heavily implies she's gonna be redeemed or be all "lel, I fucked up, let me be THE COOLEST GIRL!"
Keep in mind that this is all within the same scene where Raven reveals she had straight up killed a girl to get her powers, bringing her to Cinder levels of evil.
And yet we're supposed to feel sorry for her?
Jesus Burgess, this really is like the ending to Re:Creators, right down to the actual final battle being a "talk-no-jutsu" that ends up with forcing the audience to sympathize with a child murderer. In fact, I'd say that this is even worse than Re:Creators' "final battle", since in this scene, it's basically Yang telling Raven that she's too grimderp and that makes her cry bitch tears whereas in Re:Creators, we had an entire backstory of why we should sympathize with the villain.
Speaking of villains, there's a really cool scene where Lionheart gets his comeuppance. I really like the gory discretion cut too since it's one of the good examples of telling and not showing.
So then, we cut back the fight that literally ends with Ruby going "STAHP!" which is just a middle finger to fans, then Emerald cries bitch tears about how Cinder will return (daily reminder that she tricked a girl to murder another girl and also framed Yang… oh and partook in A MONSTER INVASION), but does a badass moment where there's a large Salem monster.
But then it just quickly ends. No denouement or closing speech it's just "Hey, RWBY's back together". There's barely any cliff-hanger, it's just "go to Atlas" and cut to credits. Hell, I can even say that Qrow's groan is actually Vic Mignogna groaning as he realized that this is how the fifth volume ends. Not with a bang, but a whimper.
And then a post-credits scene that's even more pointless than the retconned "Yang, we have to talk" scene.
Typing out this has made me extremely angry. The Perfect Storm may have been the weakest episode, but Fate of Haven is the worst. Yes, there's good moments in there, but they are so rare that they outnumber all the good moments. And because of it, I'm highly considering dropping RWBY. The way this episode was written, it almost felt like they know they were gonna end this way and just decided to pre-emptively poke fun at the ending.
That said, I can see where they're coming from with the final battle being a talking scene. One of the anime RWBY gets compared to is Hunter x Hunter, which has, as a major theme, the moral of how fighting and violence are almost never the right answer. If they were trying to capture the theme of Hunter x Hunter, I say that they have captured it pretty well. I gotta say, the moment where Raven leaves and Yang goes to grab the relic, only to break down into tears as the camera zooms out was beautiful.
And, I think in the long run, RWBY's fifth volume had the potential to be good. It had really good episodes, but had a few stumbles and even a moment where they broke their leg. Volume 4 was very experimental, and it was like watching a kid learn to ride a bike without training wheels. They're on their own, nothing to help guide them forwards, just their own instinct and it helped give it a unique feeling. Volume 5, on the other hand, is that same kid, but instead of actually trying to ride the bike, they're actively distracting you from seeing them ride the bike, either with navel gazing speeches about how they describe people as "this word" and repeating the same thing that he said last year, insisting that they should not do it this week but instead next week, or actually doing it, but you aren't even looking at them riding the bike and instead are reading that Edgelord OC fanfic where you're forced to feel sorry for the OC despite having committed atrocities that would certainly have them face a firing squad if they ever existed in real life.
… Okay, I went too far with that allegory, but the idea still remains the same:
Volume 5 is not as good as Volume 4. At least Volume 4 had a basic pacing and even a climatic battle. Yes, Volume 5 made the final battle in Volume 4, which consisted of just holding down someone's arms and literally butchering them like a cow, look climatic. But, it's better than the Volume that made me initially drop RWBY: Volume 1. And that's because Volume 5 had tons of things that kept my interest, even when I had no real reason to be interested.
Really, I have no idea what to rate it. The ending definitely hampered my final rating though.
You know what? I'm gonna invoke ProJared on this one:
This Volume gets a Last Jedi/10. It's a very divisive but long awaited sequel. There are great moments that made it worth the wait, but there had also been unnecessary and even wasted moments that make me want to slam my head against a wall. I've had really fond memories watching this volume and talking with people about it… But I can't look back at this volume and say it's good without remembering all the stupid and disappointing moments and as I said before, it's made me consider dropping RWBY.
So, that's it. Those are my thoughts on RWBY's fifth volume. I know it's a long rant, but it's been in my head for a long while.
I'm gonna sleep on whether or not I'm gonna drop RWBY since it might be that the finale is fresh in my mind and I need it to age a bit before I make my decision.
On Adam: The impression I got was that he was this big threat to Blake, because she hyped him up in her mind as a threat. Blake chumped him when they finally fought, because she realized that he was, as was shown, a joke. She confronted her internal conflict and defeated him.
On Adam: The impression I got was that he was this big thre to Blake, because she hyped him up in her mind as a threat. Blake chumped him when they finally fought, because she realized that he was, as was shown, a joke. She confronted her internal conflict and defeated him.
Yeah, while I want there to be a climactic Yang & Blake VS Adam fight, and despite my issues with this volume, Adam's actual combat track record isn't that great, consisting mostly of mooks and or no names and people he catches off guard and or has a strong psychological hold over.
e, Adam's actual combat track record isn't that great, consisting mostly of mooks and or no names and people he catches off guard and or has a strong psychological hold over.
RWBY's villians depend on overwhelming odds, and attacking with an advantage, over actually having the experience to hold their own. Torchwick never fought without his men, Scorpion dude depended on ambushes, Cinder's battles consisted of carefully curated targets that she'd had time to prepare for. Everytime she's had an opponent she was not expecting for, she lost hard.
No one on Team Grim is a Darth Vader.
RWBY's villians depend on overwhelming odds, and attacking with an advantage, over actually having the experience to hold their own. Torchwick never fought without his men, Scorpion dude depended on ambushes, Cinder's battles consisted of carefully curated targets that she'd had time to prepare for. Everytime she's had an opponent she was not expecting for, she lost hard.
No one on Team Grim is a Darth Vader.
I am unsure I wholly agree with this, Tyrien fought Qrow to a standstill despite having stopped to play with RNJR, repeatedly taking attacks he didn't need to and generally screwing around, Cinder managed to take Ozpin in 1v1 and both Neo and Bane-saw won nominally legitimately, though the surroundings and circumstances favored them heavily. Plus Roman's minions usually got taken out pretty quick, however he pretty much always fought just to bide time or escape, and only defeated Blake and Sun, cos he was able to surprise them.
I am unsure I wholly agree with this, Tyrien fought Qrow to a standstill despite having stopped to play with RNJR, repeatedly taking attacks he didn't need to and generally screwing around, Cinder managed to take Ozpin in 1v1 and both Neo and Bane-saw one nominally legitimately, though the surroundings and circumstances favored them heavily. Plus Roman's minions usually got taken out pretty quick, however he pretty much always fought just to bide time or escape, and only defeated Blake and Sun, cos he was able to surprise them.
Cinder was hyping herself up for the Ozpin fight long before it happened, and had just acquired a Maiden Power,. I'll concede on Tyrien.
The most imposing, and well equipped villan in the series so far was the Nuckelavee.
Cinder was hyping herself up for the Ozpin fight long before it happened, and had just acquired a Maiden Power,. I'll concede on Tyrien.
The most imposing, and well equipped villan in the series so far was the Nuckelavee.
True, but she didn't really have time to set the situation up to favor her beyond being unexpected and the Maiden powers, and even then she waited for Ozpin to get ready before they had a good and proper fight. Granted Maiden powers are an advantage, but so is thousands of years worth of being Ozpin XD Thanks on Tyrien!
Narratively, it was a pretty satisfying finale, although I really could have used an actual epilogue, but action-wise it was... well, I guess last episode was the climax.
Still, they made me sympathize with Raven though. Not much, but still.
On Adam: The impression I got was that he was this big threat to Blake, because she hyped him up in her mind as a threat. Blake chumped him when they finally fought, because she realized that he was, as was shown, a joke. She confronted her internal conflict and defeated him.
RWBY's villians depend on overwhelming odds, and attacking with an advantage, over actually having the experience to hold their own. Torchwick never fought without his men, Scorpion dude depended on ambushes, Cinder's battles consisted of carefully curated targets that she'd had time to prepare for. Everytime she's had an opponent she was not expecting for, she lost hard.
No one on Team Grim is a Darth Vader.
Your faith in mankind was not misplaced. When banded together, unified by a common enemy, they are a noticeable threat. But divide them, place doubt into their minds, and any semblance of power they once had will wash away.
Blake basically indicates that Adam would win... if she and Sun ran off into the forest and engaged Adam in a fight on his terms, away from all the allies they brought with them, driven by their emotional desire for revenge against Shadow the Edgehog. Blake wins by not allowing herself to be divided from the group, and not having doubt in her mind.
More broadly speaking, my impression is increasingly that key reveal "aura is manually activated" means that it doesn't activate if you are caught off guard physically... or emotionally. Many of the times in which hits have seemingly ignored aura involve a character being emotionally out of sorts, like Adam killing Sienna, Blake being ambushed by Illia, or Blake pile driving Adam. Given that aura isn't just a technological contrivance like personal energy shields but the light of one's soul or someshit, that makes a fair degree of sense. It can only do stuff if you want it do stuff, if you fail a Will save then aura goes 'order not received'. It also means the functioning of aura caters very well to the overall theme, doubt in your mind can literally cause your defenses to fail. And before people comment on Pyrrha's final fight, she focused for that fight, indeed that fight was kind of about her ignoring her problems in favor of playing the heroic sacrificing warrior of destiny. Unfortunately the other message of the show is victory will not be found through strength.
But yeah overall the show has kept well to the themes. In the earlier seasons, the villains were a small but unified group deliberately sowing as much discord and havoc as possible, while their opponents were disorganized, disunified, distrustful of each other, and full of doubts. Now that they're getting their shit together they're doing better.
More broadly speaking, my impression is increasingly that key reveal "aura is manually activated" means that it doesn't activate if you are caught off guard physically... or emotionally. Many of the times in which hits have seemingly ignored aura involve a character being emotionally out of sorts, like Adam killing Sienna, Blake being ambushed by Illia, or Blake pile driving Adam. Given that aura isn't just a technological contrivance like personal energy shields but the light of one's soul or someshit, that makes a fair degree of sense. It can only do stuff if you want it do stuff, if you fail a Will save then aura goes 'order not received'.
That may have played a part in Vernal as well, she was clearly shaken, nervous and in awe of all that was going on, then distressed by Raven's cry. While instinct might demand her Aura rise, that doesn't mean it did so as well as it should have.
I was honestly underwhelmed by the fight itself. The big clash of maiden power was "they both make giant swords and awkwardly clack them together once." I sat there for a second thinking "wait, that was it?" Before I started laughing at it.
How can I summarize my feelings right now... Let's limit to "they did more things wrong than they did right" and "it feels like this was a first draft of what Rooster Teeth wanted in the season." I'm not happy with the finale.
I'll take the time to rewatch the whole season in the future. This season felt like a movie so, whatever my concerns, I should watch it like a movie. The fans ask for one hundred new things each season and I shouldn't grade this like a one hundred question test. Rooster Teeth has their own obstacles and priorities separate from the fans.
Yang and Raven's talk was pretty good. I still think that Ruby's decision to send Yang after Cinder, Raven, and a Maiden (based on limited info) was stupid. Why would that end well?
Next let's talk about the Team Cinder's Plan here. Why didn't they bring Grimm with them? Why didn't they throw the city into chaos (you know they didn't value Lionheart)? They had specifically eliminated veteran Huntresses and Huntsmen that Qrow knew so why wouldn't the same invasion plan for Beacon work?
Why would Raven need to know about the Grimm? We were teased last season with the idea that bandits like her don't care about Grimm feeding on people outside of the tribe. Team Cinder could have thrown the city into chaos without letting Raven or Lionheart know if they involved Watts or another ally. I wanted a real victory for Team RWBY here! It feels like everything important just happened around them for this finale brawl. I'll eat my words if Raven is taking a hard look at herself and is making headway on the painful path to genuine redemption. Victory through words instead of battle absolutely should count here! I just don't think it counts as a victory if the villains escape without real consequences.
Raven beat Cinder instead of RWBY.
Adam escaped. Everyone RWBY was fighting escaped. Lionheart's fate was appropriate, but clearly wasn't due to RWBY.
Now for Oscar. He was satisfactory this volume. I wish he was begging Ozpin to learn magic after learning that Ozpin created the Maidens and turned he Branwens into birds. I think that his attitude and perspective (as demonstrated when trying to calm sparky-sparky-smash-man are going to be the crowbar which pries out Ozpin's secrets.
Unrelated note: I don't think that Qrow will be with the party for most of he next season. It is hard to articulate why. Maybe there will be a return to status quo with Qrow as Ozpin's agent.
How can I summarize my feelings right now... Let's limit to "they did more things wrong than they did right" and "it feels like this was a first draft of what Rooster Teeth wanted in the season." I'm not happy with the finale.
I'll take the time to rewatch the whole season in the future. This season felt like a movie so, whatever my concerns, I should watch it like a movie. The fans ask for one hundred new things each season and I shouldn't grade this like a one hundred question test. Rooster Teeth has their own obstacles and priorities separate from the fans.
Yang and Raven's talk was pretty good. I still think that Ruby's decision to send Yang after Cinder, Raven, and a Maiden (based on limited info) was stupid. Why would that end well?
Next let's talk about the Team Cinder's Plan here. Why didn't they bring Grimm with them? Why didn't they throw the city into chaos (you know they didn't value Lionheart)? They had specifically eliminated veteran Huntresses and Huntsmen that Qrow knew so why wouldn't the same invasion plan for Beacon work?
Why would Raven need to know about the Grimm? We were teased last season with the idea that bandits like her don't care about Grimm feeding on people outside of the tribe. Team Cinder could have thrown the city into chaos without letting Raven or Lionheart know if they involved Watts or another ally. I wanted a real victory for Team RWBY here! It feels like everything important just happened around them for this finale brawl. I'll eat my words if Raven is taking a hard look at herself and is making headway on the painful path to genuine redemption. Victory through words instead of battle absolutely should count here! I just don't think it counts as a victory if the villains escape without real consequences.
Raven beat Cinder instead of RWBY.
Adam escaped. Everyone RWBY was fighting escaped. Lionheart's fate was appropriate, but clearly wasn't due to RWBY.
Now for Oscar. He was satisfactory this volume. I wish he was begging Ozpin to learn magic after learning that Ozpin created the Maidens and turned he Branwens into birds. I think that his attitude and perspective (as demonstrated when trying to calm sparky-sparky-smash-man are going to be the crowbar which pries out Ozpin's secrets.
Unrelated note: I don't think that Qrow will be with the party for most of he next season. It is hard to articulate why. Maybe there will be a return to status quo with Qrow as Ozpin's agent.
They don't need the same plan as Beacon- destroying the school is secondary beyond getting the relic. Unleashing a ton of Grimm causes destruction, true, but it also will stir up all the defenders. What they need is a Maiden opening the gate, and unlike Beacon where they needed chaos to steal the maiden and deal with Ozpin, here they have a maiden and Ozpin isn't in their way [they don't know about Oscar and if they did, he's still not near what he was]. Chaos served a purpose to disrupt the defenses the first time, but with Leo, they could simply walk in and all they had as opposition was two teams and Qrow. Chaos in the city doesn't aid that, the remaining defenders know the objective and will not leave.
Blake brought the reinforcements that decided things. Yang was the one who got to Raven. Half of RWBY were the key figures in ending this.
They don't need the same plan as Beacon- destroying the school is secondary beyond getting the relic. Unleashing a ton of Grimm causes destruction, true, but it also will stir up all the defenders. What they need is a Maiden opening the gate, and unlike Beacon where they needed chaos to steal the maiden and deal with Ozpin, here they have a maiden and Ozpin isn't in their way [they don't know about Oscar and if they did, he's still not near what he was]. Chaos served a purpose to disrupt the defenses the first time, but with Leo, they could simply walk in and all they had as opposition was two teams and Qrow. Chaos in the city doesn't aid that, the remaining defenders know the objective and will not leave.
Blake brought the reinforcements that decided things. Yang was the one who got to Raven. Half of RWBY were the key figures in ending this.
Also without Ruby's momentary Silver Eye powers Jaune would have been murdered by Cinder and then Cinder likely would have moved on to the rest of the team before Oscar could do anything since she wouldn't be distracted by sadism.
Ruby also deliberately made sure to focus fire on Leo before dealing with Hazel and co so that he would run away and rob the villains of even more of their numbers. And Weiss summoning the Queen Lancer also likely played a huge part in breaking Leo's morale and wearing down Emerald and Mercury.
They don't need the same plan as Beacon- destroying the school is secondary beyond getting the relic. Unleashing a ton of Grimm causes destruction, true, but it also will stir up all the defenders. What they need is a Maiden opening the gate, and unlike Beacon where they needed chaos to steal the maiden and deal with Ozpin, here they have a maiden and Ozpin isn't in their way [they don't know about Oscar and if they did, he's still not near what he was]. Chaos served a purpose to disrupt the defenses the first time, but with Leo, they could simply walk in and all they had as opposition was two teams and Qrow. Chaos in the city doesn't aid that, the remaining defenders know the objective and will not leave.
Blake brought the reinforcements that decided things. Yang was the one who got to Raven. Half of RWBY were the key figures in ending this.
There is also the fact that Haven isn't in the same situation as Beacon:
Let's start by a simple but important one, Beacon is on Vale's border while Heaven is smack dab in the middle of Mistral, Cinder only had to bring down the defences in Beacon's district to allow the Grimm to arrive, in Heaven she would need to basically bring down the whole city to get to the Academy, and as bad as the Fall of Beacon was only one small sector of the city fell.
Before the Fall of Beacon nobody would have thought that someone would do something like that, except the Ozpinluminaty but try to explain that without sounding like a loon, it is like the people that say that 9/11 has to be an inside job because the Government had to know that they would crash the planes into the towers even though it would be the first time that it happened.
The Fall of Beacon took months of prep work done mostly by the WF and an on the spot Cinder, for Heaven they had a shorter timeline and little WF help, as it was supposed to be the WF reward for the help at Beacon.
So it looks like we're done with Haven Academy now. The only Haven student present this season was Sun. We didn't meet any Haven teachers. We didn't meet any veteran hunters native to the region (except Lionheart?).
I can see why Sun came to Beacon early. Feels like a ghost town.
So it looks like we're done with Haven Academy now. The only Haven student present this season was Sun. We didn't meet any Haven teachers. We didn't meet any veteran hunters native to the region (except Lionheart?).
