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RWBY Thread III: Time To Say Goodbye

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Stop: So gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
  • Staff Post
    • so gotta few things that need to be said real quick.
    We get a lot of reports from this thread. A lot of it is just a series of people yelling at each other over arguments that have been rehashed hundreds of times since the end of the recent Volume. And I get that the last Volume - and RWBY in general, really - has some controversial moments that people will want to discuss, argue about, debate, etc.

    That's fine. We're not going to stop people from doing that, because that's literally what the point of the thread is. However, there's just a point where it gets to be a bit too much, and arguments about whether or not Ironwood was morally justified in his actions in the recent Volume, or if RWBY and her team were in the right for withholding information from Ironwood out of distrust, or whatever flavor of argument of the day descend into insulting other posters, expressing a demeaning attitude towards other's opinions, and just being overall unpleasant. That tends to happen a lot in this thread. We want it to stop happening in this thread.

    So! As of now the thread is in a higher state of moderation. What that means is that any future infractions will result in a weeklong boot from the thread, and repeated offenders will likely be permanently removed. So please, everyone endeavor to actually respect the other's arguments, and even if you strongly disagree with them please stay civil and mindful when it comes to responding to others.

    In addition, users should refrain from talking about off-site users in the thread. Bear in mind that this does not mean that you cannot continue to post tumblr posts, for example, that add onto the discussion in the thread, with the caveat that it's related to RWBY of course. But any objections to offsite users in the thread should be handled via PM, or they'll be treated as thread violations and infracted as such.
     
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  • Staff Post
    • Rather than RWBY becoming the maidens, I kinda suspect the endgame will be RWBY fighting the maidens. We've got Cinder, a direct villain under Salem; and the Spring Maiden, while more morally complex and opposed to Salem, is still in an antagonistic role all things considered. I would not be surprised in the least if the other two Maidens similarly wound up in oppositional roles, likely with direct rivalries against Weiss and Blake respectively.
     
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    The tale of the Four Maidens is a common fairy tale in Remnant. Surely seasonal names are not rare there.
     
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    UbeOne said:
    The tale of the Four Maidens is a common fairy tale in Remnant. Surely seasonal names are not rare there.
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    True, though both for and against that is that the Maidens, at least the myth such as it is, was not originally worked into the story but added later, though Cinder did still have glowing eyes and a leaf theme.... Hmm
     
    The Narrator said:
    I think what they meant was that the writers didn't come up with the Maidens until Volume 3, so what was the reason for her name before they did?
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    Yup, that's what I meant, thanks :D

    VolantRedX said:
    I'm pretty sure that Kerry at least said that the Maidens and the rest of the background myths were Monty's concepts, and that they've just expanded from his notes.
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    I know Salem existed beforehand but I was pretty sure they said the story of the Maidens at least was thought up between V1 and 2.
     
    Pyrrha's death was planned long before the show started though. The rocket locker and all were made for that moment...
     
    One thing I find interesting about this volume is Raven:
    Tai insists that she was someone who thought the best way to deal with an obstacle was to go through it and that she thought only strength mattered in combat yet when we actually see her here, she can be conniving, sneaky, diplomatic, secretive and has been maintaining an elaborate charade that fooled everyone and came up with a backstabbing strategy that could take tons of enemies off the board, or at least secure her something that could, in theory, protect her.

    UbeOne said:
    Pyrrha's death was planned long before the show started though. The rocket locker and all were made for that moment...
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    As I said, I am specifically referring to the Maiden story, as I recall it being said that wasn't invented until after V2, but as noted, Cinder still had the eye glow and the leaf thing in the opening theme, so chances are all the general stuff was worked out and it was most just certain details that hadn't been decided upon yet.
     
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    UbeOne said:
    Pyrrha's death was planned long before the show started though. The rocket locker and all were made for that moment...
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    Not sure I see the relevance? Pyrrha's death and the story of the Maidens are two different things. Pyrrha dying goes hand-in-hand with her being Rule 63 Achilles. If Cinder's only purpose in the story was to kill Pyrrha, her name would have been Paris.
     
    While I do think that Raven being a maiden possibly sets up for Yang becoming a maiden, I doubt it will happen this volume. We just found out Raven is a maiden, so I doubt she'll die in the next two episodes and have her power transferred to Yang.

    I also doubt that Ruby will become a maiden, she already has the silver eyes thing.
     
    Unless the silver eyes thing is a Maiden power. Honestly, it's so ill-defined at this point that we have no idea.
     
    UbeOne said:
    Like what Raven said, Cinder must have picked the surname herself. :V
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    If it turns out her last name is Ella like it's stated they were originally planning on I'll be very amused.

    Zam said:
    One thing I find interesting about this volume is Raven:
    Tai insists that she was someone who thought the best way to deal with an obstacle was to go through it and that she thought only strength mattered in combat yet when we actually see her here, she can be conniving, sneaky, diplomatic, secretive and has been maintaining an elaborate charade that fooled everyone and came up with a backstabbing strategy that could take tons of enemies off the board, or at least secure her something that could, in theory, protect her.
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    Well, it's been nearly seventeen years since Taiyang saw her and she's had to lead a bandit tribe since then. People change, and she's had a lot of time and opportunities to learn.
     
    draconas said:
    Well, it's been nearly seventeen years since Taiyang saw her and she's had to lead a bandit tribe since then. People change, and she's had a lot of time and opportunities to learn.
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    Point, but I personally would rather just assume Tai didn't understand or know her as well as he thought myself. It'd feel especially odd to introduce that comparison between her and Yang, then demonstrate she's basically the opposite of what we were told.
     
    Zam said:
    Point, but I personally would rather just assume Tai didn't understand or know her as well as he thought myself. It'd feel especially odd to introduce that comparison between her and Yang, then demonstrate she's basically the opposite of what we were told.
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    Personally I'm kind of tired of fans ragging on Taiyang so I'd prefer it if the Raven we're seeing now is simply very different from the Raven he knew because she's been through a major life changing event.

    Becoming the Spring Maiden on its own is already a huge change. The knowledge that an enemy that she believes to be unstoppable is going to come after her eventually in particular would pretty much force her to start thinking outside the box since she believes the enemy is to strong to beat.

    Heck while her tactics are more clever than Tai suggested her strategy is pretty exactly as he described. She thinks there's no way to use force to beat Salem so she just gives up completely. Salem's goons find her but instead of just giving them the Relic and then hightailing it out of there or informing Qrow about the ambush, giving him the Relic after taking out Cinder's group and then going to ground, both actions that would take the heat of her she instead seeks to take the Relic for herself which will only make her even more of a target.

    You can definitely see aspects of that "only raw force can win" mentality in her motivations. Salem has the most raw force, therefore she is invincible. Salem is after us? Then we need more raw force.
     
    Mook said:
    Personally I'm kind of tired of fans ragging on Taiyang so I'd prefer it if the Raven we're seeing now is simply very different from the Raven he knew because she's been through a major life changing event.

    Becoming the Spring Maiden on its own is already a huge change. The knowledge that an enemy that she believes to be unstoppable is going to come after her eventually in particular would pretty much force her to start thinking outside the box since she believes the enemy is to strong to beat.

    Heck while her tactics are more clever than Tai suggested her strategy is pretty exactly as he described. She thinks there's no way to use force to beat Salem so she just gives up completely. Salem's goons find her but instead of just giving them the Relic and then hightailing it out of there or informing Qrow about the ambush, giving him the Relic after taking out Cinder's group and then going to ground, both actions that would take the heat of her she instead seeks to take the Relic for herself which will only make her even more of a target.

    You can definitely see aspects of that "only raw force can win" mentality in her motivations. Salem has the most raw force, therefore she is invincible. Salem is after us? Then we need more raw force.
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    I barely ever see fans ragging on him, especially on SB where he was pretty much idolized before even getting screen time.

    Has anyone else tried using anything but force with Salem, is it even an option? Plus handing power over to her enemies, which she deems Ozpin and Qrow as, seems like a terrible idea.
     
    Zam said:
    Has anyone else tried using anything but force with Salem, is it even an option? Plus handing power over to her enemies, which she deems Ozpin and Qrow as, seems like a terrible idea.
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    Well, given Grimm were designed by the younger brother to destroy anything and everything and now only target humans, something messed up their targeting parameters and it might be possible to change them again to something more harmless. Although, the thing that's causing them to attack humanity might be Salem, assuming she's not a natural part of the Grimm as her using "we" when referring to mankind in the first episode implies.
    Although she could have also just meant creations of the 2 Brothers when using we.
     
    draconas said:
    Well, given Grimm were designed by the younger brother to destroy anything and everything and now only target humans, something messed up their targeting parameters and it might be possible to change them again to something more harmless. Although, the thing that's causing them to attack humanity might be Salem, assuming she's not a natural part of the Grimm as her using "we" when referring to mankind in the first episode implies.
    Although she could have also just meant creations of the 2 Brothers when using we.
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    Possible, though apologies I was more referring to Ozpin and CO in regards to the 'using force' thing, IE, if Raven using force when threatened by the Grimm/Salem is bad, then everyone shares her flaw.
     
    Zam said:
    Possible, though apologies I was more referring to Ozpin and CO in regards to the 'using force' thing, IE, if Raven using force when threatened by the Grimm/Salem is bad, then everyone shares her flaw.
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    I was more referring to the "is it even an option" bit.
    Although she also seems to prefer human agents also you could kill those with a good enough counterintelligence network to cripple her. Probably because Grimm aren't exactly stealthy and are implied to take much longer to grow stronger and smarter than it takes for an equally strong Hunter to be trained.
     
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    draconas said:
    I was more referring to the "is it even an option" bit.
    Although she also seems to prefer human agents also you could kill those with a good enough counterintelligence network to cripple her. Probably because Grimm aren't exactly stealthy and are implied to take much longer to grow stronger and smarter than it takes for an equally strong Hunter to be trained.
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    That's fair, but yeah kind of a distinct issue in of itself as I am more referencing the decisions of other cast members so whether or not its an option they don't seem to have gone with it so (shrug) XD

    I actually thought the people agents thing was relatively new given how caught off guard Ozpin and co were, but that may just be me.
     
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